Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Not sure i agree with this morally. :(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4492345.stm

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I'm sure you and I are in the minority, after all this is the day and age of "I want so I'll have".

It must be tough for parents who feel they'd benefit from this for their current ill children but we do NOT own life, neither do we have the right play God/Mother Nature/whatever you believe in.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I still dont think we should meddle with nature, so to create another life to save another ? what happens to the other child afterwards ?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

:( Very bad decision IMO :td:

You should never meddle with nature. :no:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I don't believe you guys!!!!
Ignore the misnomer "designer babies" as there is nothing designer about it!
That is an emotive term made up by people who are against this proceedure and perpetrated by the media because they know the majority of people won't understand.
Designer babies would be children you can design, ie you set out from the start and modify the genetic code in order to have a baby with the properties you wish, such as great athleticism, green eyes, blond curly hair etc.
That is not what this allows dammit!

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I understand this perfectly, thanks.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I'm dubious about the fact that the baby produced isn't being born for his or her own sake but to satisfy the parents desire to save another child.I hope counselling is part and parcel for the child in this position later in life... :erm:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

What exactly are you objecting to? That some of the embryeos will be destroyed? Well in that case you must object to all IVF treatments as only two or three of the resultant embryoes are actually used, the rest are also aborted.
Is it that a life is likely to be saved by this? If that's the case, then you should object to siblings giving blood or bone marrow to each other.
Is it that you think this is some how playing "god?" If so you need to do some more research and see that the embryoes are all natural with no modification.
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Incog, if one of your kids had an incurable disease that could be saved by a genetic match with a sibling, would you love that sibling any less?
I don't think so.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I object to life being used in this way. Regardless of what you say now, this is the first step on the way to actual 'designer' babies.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

and as i go off on a slight tangent , is this not of benefit , and loosely related to the thread title :)

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Wasn't what I said.I was concerned for the child that is born to save an older sibling and how they may feel when old enough to understand the implications.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Also not on topic but who on earth calls their child 'Miracle'???

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

So you'd object to me giving blood or bone marrow or some other genetic tissue to save my sister then?
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Would you have a child for the only purpose of saving your current child?
No, I don't believe you would, you'd have another child because you want another child and you'd hope that child would be able to help your current child.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Such a daft question that doesn't dignify a response....

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Is that a yes then?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

But we are talking of people having babies to only save their current child..the child required will have to have a certain tissue type and thus they can't trust to luck and hope the resultant child WILL have the required matching tissue..That's not what this article is stating.It is about actually selecting ONLY those embryos that have the correct tissue type..and any that don't have the necessary matching tissue type? What happens to them?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I thought we had been over this before, It is gods way, stop playing with our genes!!

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

But we do that all the time, even if you never eat a GM product, almost nothing that you consume is strictly natural.
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I personally don't find even genuine "designer" babies to be a bad thing. We're not talking about something like eugenics where we are killing off people already born, we're just ensuring that those that are born are improved. I'm perfectly happy for humans to be engineered to me more intelligent, stronger, capable of surviving in adverse environments, etc.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I am sorry but if that is what god chooses for your child then so be it, I have a son who has an emotional disorder, but it does not mean I will play god with him, it is a crime against humanity. What did they do years ago when there wasnt things such as gene research? They got on with it, so I am sorry we have to as well.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

You know better than that.

Didn't Hitler have a similar idea?

What happened to loving a child no matter how it turns out?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

What he said!

I would have written all this but Xaccers beat me to it.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

No-one is playing with our genes.

This is about pre-implantation tissue-typing of IVF embryos, to select ones which can be a donor for the parents' existing child.

No messing with genes. No eugenics. Just parents who want to help save their kid's life.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

No, because I`m making it quite clear that I`m not proposing that we wipe out those that we deem imperfect by mass slaughter. I see there being a vast gulf between the actions of Hitler and merely ensuring that future generations are improved, no detrimental action is being taken against the current generations.

As for your second point, this isn't a case of making a children more loveable, engineering humans to survive in adverse environments certainly doesn't fit into my idea of factors that define loveability, for want of a better word. It is an issue of taking evolution into our own hands and guiding the development of the human race as a whole.

Evolution is, at a base level, survival of the fittest. That can be through strength, intelligence, suitability for the environment, other factors. This is merely a case of applying intelligence to improve fitness.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Oh dear, it seems that now the red herring of eugenics is being dragged across this topic.

We're talking about processes that *already* exist, that of producing IVF babies and of organ/ tissue/ cell donation from relatives.

Does anyone have any objection to these?

IVF involves some fertilzed eggs not being used already, all that is happening is that a particular one is being chosen as the best possible match for donation to a sibling instead of the process being random.

This is *not* the same as wanting to produce a blonde, blue eyed "Aryan Master Race", it is nothing like that.

If the chosen embryo comes to term and then turns out not to be a perfect match or the transplant or whatever doesn't work properly, do you really think the parents are going to love that baby any less?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

That's on the assumption of one agreeing with evolution.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

all true :)

the only moral issue is the one of discarding the 'rejects', which is the same one that has existed since IVF treatments were introduced.

personally I have a problem with IVF - but I have a healthy son and presumably could have had more children, I concede I might feel entirely different, were that not so...

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

What if you don't believe in a god?
__________________

You currently enjoy the benefit of many drugs and other products (some of them not essential) that are the result of playing with your god. This assumes that you still believe that your god created animals too.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I take it your son hasn't had any vaccines, never been given antibiotics, wouldn't be given treatment if they had cancer etc?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Oh gods, *DON'T* start that one again! :rolleyes:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I just want there to be more discussion about this before such issues become the accepted thing.Once we push open certain doors it is difficult to close and bolt them again.

I'm not concerned about playing God I'm concerned about not thinking every part of the issue ALL the way through..I also would want to approach it in a more pragmatic manner and to try and keep the emotive angle to a minimum although I understand that genetic disease in young children IS an emotive issue.However I feel that the discussion should be along the lines of what is best for the proposed resultant children who are people too eventually.

What will it be like if we go further along this road to cloned individuals?What sort of society will we be forming?What certain legalities will there be for cloned people?This is what needs discussing.Of course we could do the usual and just accept it a bit at a time but then the laws will never really catch up.

Let's just think the consequences through a little more thoroughly than we are at the moment..please. :tu:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

There are other problems associated with creating children to specifically match the needs of another.

Assuming that we're talking about genetic modification then we need to recognise the very real threat that is, Diahorrea.

After all.....that runs in your genes..........

:Sprint:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

diarrhoea must be the most difficult word in the English language (spelling wise)

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Well, that about wraps this discussion up then.
From designer babies to diarrhoea.
:eh:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

It's all very well sitting here pontificating about God, nature and possible consequences.............have a look at these pics, he doesn't have the luxury of armchair debate, it's life or death for him............

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

exactly :tu:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Firstly we're not talking about cloned individuals, indeed in cases like this cloning would be completely pointless.

Secondly I think that the idea that there's some billionaire out there who would create a clone of themselves and either use it for spare parts or somehow transplant their brain into it to get a new lease on life is more the purview of (rather bad) science fiction than massive concern for the rest of us.

Why should the legalities for a clone be any different from those for a baby selected to provide a transplant for a sibling?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Or an identical twin for that matter, after all, they're clones too! :)



Incog, think about this deeply, and take into account the cash strapped NHS, where many couples who are unable to have children naturally only get one or two chances with IVF because it is so expensive.
Do you really think that they don't make sure that the parents want the second child anyway?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

HANG ON, I am a twin I am supposed to be identical but she looks nothing like me!!!
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Erm yes my sons have had all their vaccines, my mother in law and my eldest brother are both fighting cancer, antibiotics no because your body eventually rejects them, and I have seen this happen many a time. And I am a catholic. And you are playing with genes, just proves that some people do not know what the heck they are talking about.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I do hope you're joking...


No genetic manipulation is being performed in this proceedure.

And you said:

Yet you have given them vacines against illnesses, but surely if god chooses for them to get infected, without human intervention/treatment they could die, but you have intervined, your sons won't cut their finger on a rusty nail and die of lockjaw, you've treated them so they are immune, so does that mean you too have gone against what god chooses for them?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

And you were born two years apart...! :eek: :D

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

They also died from the common cold years ago, times change.
And we dont all believe in your god, or god at all for that matter so your going to have to come up with a better arguement then that. Your beliefs are not enough to force someone not to do something. If you could come up with a good reason that actually relies on facts then that can help move the discussion forward.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

A slight aside but whenever there is a debate about morals I seem to always see your name against taking a moral stance and leaning towards ultra permissive. Is there anything that you feel is morally wrong (without getting into a debate about the meaning of the phrase)?

Or are you morally "flaccid"?

I hope this doesn't come across as incisive. I am just interested.....

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Check the civil liberties thread in lifestyle :)

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

So how do you come to the conclusion that some medical interventions are acceptable whereas others are not?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

What makes you even suspect that I don't think about this deeply?Possibly because my opinion is different to yours?I've probably thought about it more deeply than you...Yes we could look just at alllowing this for one small narrow section of society.The problem is that each time we make an allowance for one group there is another group just behind them wanting the same consideration.Before you know it the door is swinging off it's hinges.

But of course sentiment will always cloud the issues.How can we ignore small children.Then it will be how can we ignore the plight of the old.

I'm not for a total ban,just a pause while we really consider our options and I don't want us taking ourselves in a certain direction because all we can see is the emotional need.

And yes we don't have cloning..YET! But one day we will and what will we be thinking and doing about it.I wonder what people would make of identity if true cloning took place? :erm:And just how far do we want to go with genetic manipulation?Where do we draw a line? Will we draw a line?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

The word I prefer is libertarian (note, that's with a small "l" to distinguish it from American Libertarians who mostly seem to want to be able to own lots of guns!)

The problem is that it *is* the meaning (and/ or usage) of the word that causes me difficulties!

As I've mentioned in other threads, some people act as if morals are graven in stone when they're really nothing more than bits of tribal ethos which have "seniority" because they've been around for a long time.

The point is that there *are* no real hard and fast rules, only the ones we make for ourselves eg you can argue that killing is wrong, but then there's the exception of not if you do it in a war or in self-defence.

It's possible to create all sorts of "moral dilemmas" that are not easy to answer or even to do the same but with loaded questions if someone's trying to make (or force) a point, however real life is never that simple.

Maybe someone should slip me some Moral Viagra?! :D

But seriously even that question is loaded in its way because it implies (although I'm sure not deliberately) "weakness", in the same sort of way that the Tories and Labour accuse each other of being "soft on crime" (a nice soundbite, but usually inaccurate).

If there are any principles to which I think people should hold they might be "An it harm no other, do what thou wilt", although it could also be "To thine own self be true" or "judge not others lest ye also be judged" or possibly several others that haven't sprung to mind at the moment.

The point is, though, that I think the world would be a better place if everyone minded their *own* business and stopped trying to mind everyone else's if nobody's getting hurt by it.

Not at all. It's a fair question.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

But what if the 'everyone else' (or perhaps 'someone else' would be more appropriate) you refer to are too naive or immature to know any better?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I was trying not to be drawn into this, but I think 'everyone' is appropriate, in this case - the "nobody getting hurt" being the key phrase..

I think Graham was replying to the question about his "libertarian" ethos, rather than the absolute question posed by the thread??

I have already offered an opinion that the rejection of fertilised eggs during IVF is my concern - I feel it does constitute 'getting hurt' for a potential life to be destroyed.

So, the 'extra' screening for a desired characteristic, can't be worse than that - if you see what I mean. :dozey:

- so I'm not arguing, but who is going to judge which is immature & which is just driven by the 'biological clock', you & I both have children, we can't imagine what it is like to want a child & not be able to have one - or to know that to have one has a probability of that child being disabled.

this is one of those subjects that can only be dealt with on an individual basis, in my opinion :)

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I'm not sure which part you're referring to here.

Do you mean they're too naiive or immature not to know better than to leave their noses out of someone else's business or too naiive or immature to be able to mind their *own* business?
__________________

I was, but I presumed Russ' response was in relation to that, not the main topic of the thread.

Now I'm not so sure...! :dozey:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

A 12 year old boy may think that having sex with animals is "his own business" - do you mind your own and avoid telling him how wrong it is?

A man having sex with underage girls may consider doing so to be his "own business" - do you just walk on by?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Very going points, perhaps good enough to warrent their own thread, but can we keep this one on topic as it appears to be heading off at a "what are morals" type tangent :)


PS I think Graham sort of addressed child type issues near the end of the current civil liberties thread

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

:disturbd: , you have just modded a mod :D :D :D , btw , i dont think you are far wrong there russ :tu:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

No, because in both of these cases you are referring to minors who cannot be expected to know what is or isn't legal and in one of them there is an adult who *should* know better.

As I said in my original comment: "if nobody's getting hurt by it."

Also in both cases, I'd ask "where are their parents and what have they failed to do/ teach their children?"

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Thank you! So how do you decide if someone should know better or not? How can you be sure that that person cannot make the decision for themselves? Someone has to make that decision for the good of the individual.

So who are you to decide that "nobody's getting hurt"?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Err, excuse me???

You do not "decide if someone should know better or not" as a sort of pro-active decision!

We don't have (nor should we have) competency tests to decide if someone is capable of making a decision or not on a "moral" (or whatever) issue, we *presume* their "innocence" ie that they are capable of doing so.

Or would you prefer we have a sort of "Department of Pre-Crime" putting people on a lie detector and asking them "do you want to have sex with a child?" and locking up anyone who failed??

Where did *I* say that *I* was the one to make this decision??

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

You said....

You said...

So who makes that decision?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

And I said that's going off topic, so please, either bring it back on topic or start another thread
Bad boys, both of you!

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I dont find the twin comments amusing neither does my twin, it just shows how immature so people are, she thought you were all a pack of Jackass's. If you go to the BMA journals Oct 02, they give the pros and cons of designer babies long before they went to the lords. Oh I forgot you people do not have access sorry!!
It has also been mentioned in various other nursing journals. Oh no I forgot you lot have probally worked in the research.
I cannot carry baby girls and I have lost 3, and this type of research would help me, but I am not interested and Paul would agree with me on this. The daily newspapers or gutter trash only give a brief inside of this type of research, and half the stuff they print really is trash.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

How would this proceedure help you?
I'm assuming you're not confusing this proceedure with something that isn't being suggested, such as genetic manipulation...

Actually, can we have the topic name changed to something that is acurate to what this proceedure is?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Erm no, I am doing a MA next yr, so I do think I know what I am talking about, and I am not publishing private infomation. Go and look at Google if you want to know more. People go on about claiming that they know what they are talking about. Half the time I am convinced they are just on here to rub people up the wrong way.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Tell you what, please could you or a mod do us a favour and split the messages between me and Russ D off into a thread in Lifestyle called "Morals?"

(Yes, the question mark is to be included in the thread title :) )

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Xac isn't on the team....

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I don't know, I don't follow the transfer market...! ;)

(Ok, could you do it please?)

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Are you referrring to the BMJ ? If you are then everyone has access...... for now anyway http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/contents-by-date.2002.shtml

So it would be good if you could share so that those who don't know, in your opinion, will know :)

Allie, i work in the medical research field and have access, so if you post the references that you're referring to, i can make them available to the people that you think need them. It's not really fair not to share if we can help :)

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

You are going to come on here, start making all these claims, and then actively refuse to back them up with supportive evidence, I`m sure you'll excuse me if I don`t accord your arguments any weight.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Erm I am actually assisting in research, and I feel that the infomation would be wasted on certain people as they are looking for an argument all the time.
Certain parts of the BMJ yes, I to have the relevent access that is required. I am working with a fellow that works for the BMJ and I think he would not be happy if I went handing out infomation willy nilly to people who do not understand. They would not understand some of the infomation the BMJ publishes. And I thought it was for students and healthcare professionals?? Well thats what I was told.:shrug: :shrug:
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Well would you like to tell my boss that, he would blow half of your statements out of the water. Why?? There are only a few people on this forum would understand. I am sad to say.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Hells bells i only posted a news item.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

See what us medical professionals are like:cool: :cool: !!

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Since you started this in PM, and then decided that you don`t want a PM reply I`ll just have to post one here.

This is the singularly most patronising comment I have *ever* seen on this forum. How dare you make presumptions about what people will understand. You have amply demonstrated that you are not worth debating with, and at the end of the day cannot actually engage in debate. I shall therefore not bother considering your posts in regard to this thread any more.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Shows how arrogant Drs Actually are!!! I could not care less what you think and you continually patronise members of this forum. I can debate.
And yes I can thank you, I am not making presumptions as certain people I have talked to do not understand what I am doing. Oh I forgot we are below you arnt we??? Us nurses, dream on. Point of advice do that again and I will report you.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Leave it please....

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Perhaps allie can actually explain then for us lowly people (heck I only studied astrophysics so I can't be that bright) how selecting embryoes with a genetic match to what is required involves actually manipulating genes then, perhaps with a comparison as to standard IVF proceedures?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I have to admit, I agree that in this case (see link in post 1), the technology is a good thing. As long as the technique is not misused (and there is no harm to the Donor which if I understand the article correctly, there won't be), then I don't object.

If the technique is adapted to allow selection based on physical attributes (unless those attributes are related to a medical condition), then the technique is wrong.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Why did you quote me when nothing you said really responded to my post :confused:
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agree completeley :tu:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Sorry there was me thinking you were an Agency nurse and you seem to bleat on about this in several other threads.

:td:

:tu:

As Kink oops Marina said it is common knowledge so get over it.

:clap:

Time for Paul to put the lead back on me thinks.

And of course you do not patronise members here, hmm pot/kettle/black springs to mind.

:D

I donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t wish to get on peoples tits here but what I and my partner Julie would give for a Baby designer or not is anything or everything.

Having been through three miscarriages, two of which we knew about.

The third one both of us were unaware of as she is normally late and she started spotting and then went into what she thought was a diabetic pass out.

Imagine then when she woke up in the BUPA hospital my task of telling here not only had she had a diabetic related pass out but she had actually lost our child by way of another miscarriage.

Fortunately on this occasion she did not have to have a D&C (scrape out) as it is more commonly known.

We are still hoping for a child whether it is designer or not.

:angel:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Muzzle would be more effective surely ;)

Allie, I'm genuinely interested in how you manage your time. Any chance you could share some tips on how you juggle all the things you do - TA, MA, BMJ research, RMN, kids, nursing, 4x4 off roading etc. Seems awful busy! I wish I had your talent cos I struggle with my lowly workload.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Back off Allie, she has lost more children than what she has given birth to. We have both suffered the same pain except it worked out. A nurse in the bupa hospital should have told your partner not you, so I think there is some what fairytale going on there.
I have seen the research Allie has been involved with and I do not understand it. The access Allie has is inclusive access to certain parts of the BMA website, as she is participating in research for the BMA, so get your facts right. Yes she is an agency nurse and I am very proud of her as she would have never been given the chance to do the work she is doing at the moment. You want you check your facts out properly before you decide to have a go at my wife. And do not go classing her as a dog as it offends me, as she is a very special woman who has given me two beautiful sons. So check your facts, before sounding off. :dunce: :dunce:
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And I do not think that is any of your business, we have two sets of excellent parents and maybe you should invest in time management as you seem to spend most of your time gobbing off on here with naff liberal views. Oh and get some friends, as they help us to!

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I do not like the muzzle comments, how about a nanny helps us and as Paul mentioned, it is none of your business. And you are so off topic. If you are so concerned how I manage my time have a word with Paul as he is more than happy to oblige! As have only started my research which is what I do when I am not working. The MA starts next yr, The TA is 1 night a week for 3 hours and the outdoors stuff I do on a weekend. I am begining to think you do not have a life and all you want to do is wind other people up. GET A LIFE!!!!

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I was only asking how she did it. No need to get personal surely.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

ahhh but talk of muzzles , leads etc surely is getting personal , maybe it should end here and now , nuff said ;) :)

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I'd still like to know what genetic manipulation is involved in IVF...

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

:mad: losing a baby is no fairy tale as you infer and if you had been through it you would know that.

FFS get your facts right no where in my post did I say a Nurse, it was the consultant who actually told me as next of kin as Julie had still not woken up from her diabetic lapse and they gave me the option to tell her or have a stranger the consultant to tell her.


:dunce: Your the only :dunce: here for assuming and tarring everyone with the same brush, just because you do not understand it does not mean other won't unless you are trying to say you are the most knowledgeable person here and if you cannot understand it then noone else possibly could.

;) And that was not my point originally by the way.

:angel:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

hey we know it is not a blinkin fairy tale. You are not the only people to lose babies, me and Allie would love to have a girl, but as if recent we would not accept this, now we have finially accepted this and have had to get on with life. And do not FFS me, the consultant should have spoke to your partner as well as you. A strange way of going on?
What planet are you on??? Ill tell you what I get her to send some of her stuff down and you have a go. So now you mean to tell me I am a dunce???? I would like to know what you do for a living then???? She has worked hard, I have even seen her cry and nearly give up, but she keeps on going. I still do not think much to your earlier remarks about what she does and the lead comment.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Anyway, back on topic, exactly what genetic manipulation takes place during IVF, because as far as I'm aware there is none.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Whats that got to do with designer babies, it is totally different.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Theres no question this is an emotive point,some will be for some against,im sure of one thing though,I could argue against it here but if either of my children(1 ive never seen :() where to ever be in a position to need this , I would do anything for them. I can imagine the pain parents in this position feel ,and hope and pray that im never put in the position to need this for medical use.
I am however totally against designing a child for taste ie what the sex is or hair colour etc
Hope this brings this very upsetting thread back on topic

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Actually its not, designer babies are the 'gataka' that the majority are truely against, wich involves picking features such as eye colour, intelligence etc. It seems that they have chosen the phrase deisnger babies either out of ignorance or as a scare tactic for the article. What I believe this should have been called is "Selective Birthing, Lords give thumbs up" but that doesnt bring nearly as bad imagery as "Designer babies" does it?

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

You know that, and I know that, but someone has said that this is playing with genes and genetic manipulation is taking place in the process, which suggests that you and I are wrong.
Now this person also said they have inside information which shows we don't know what we're talking about, I'd like to know what this information is so that I can be corrected, because currently it is my understanding that this process is identical to IVF apart from testing the embryoes and only implanting those with genetic matches. If I am wrong, I would like to know :)

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any genetic manipulation.

I think the main concern here is that it looks like the technology involved COULD be used for manipulating the physical attributes of a baby. I realise that is theoretical though.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

See that's the thing, my understanding is that the only part of this technology that could be used for manipulating the attributes of a baby is the detection of what genes are present and the implantation of embryoes into a womb.
No part of it could be used in actually changing the genes in any way.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

the only thing that is involved is cryogenics. And therapy that helps the woman conceive a baby. I wish people would just stop jumping on me all the time as we are both getting fed up of it. I am not spurlting off infomation as I would lose my job, and I do not want to go and do that.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Ah so I misunderstood your previous posts then? I do appologise.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Its okay.:angel:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

If you don't agree with this, then don't do it. Some people will be very glad that Lords have agreed to this. It's not about playing with genes or playing god. It's about loving parents wanting to keep their children in the best health they can, and giving the best life they can have for as long as possible.

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Although I'm sure you can see how the following lead me to misunderstand

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Yeah, I was thinking that too.... I don't think your apology was really needed... :erm:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

I read between Xaccers' lines on that.

Could somebody explain why I got three greenies for my contribution. Bewildered :confused:

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Sorry never mentioned we were the only to people to lose a child thatâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s you inferring that not me.

I am pleased you have finally accepted this hard as it maybe and are moving on with life.

:angel:

Well as I said the consultant gave me the option to tell my partner when she woke up which I chose, nothing strange there. :D

Earth ;)

I hinted some what sarcastically to the dunce smiley as you did in your post merely to make reference to you stating that if you could not understand it then nobody would, implying the opposite that we were all below your level of intelligence. :confused:


Neurophysiology Consultant MB ChB FRCP FRCPI

I will offer an olive branch and apologise for the lead comment in my original posting. :angel:

However the remarks about what she does etc were not from me either. :confused:

Again if you both found it harsh then I am sorry but this is an emotive subject and directly affects a lot of people me and yourselves and many others included. :angel:

Anyhows have enjoyed reading the views so far but will not be restrained like others in the opinions I hold.

Endof the day we all have an opions on the subjects concerned with some being closer to others like this very one.

:D

Re: Designer babies Lords give thumbs up
 

Okay then I accept. Dont you think I do not dream of a little girl and wanting to dress her up in little dresses and doing girly things with her mum. It breaks my heart.
The good jobs me and Paul have do not fill the void we feel. I still would not do the designer baby thing even if I had a million pounds to do it. I do not care what some people think, that is there opinion and I do not really want to hear their Garb and it is Garb. Some people do not realise that these problems might raise their ugly heads in later life.