Big Bird Takes Off (and lands safely)
 

It got off the ground.

Didnt weigh 3 times as much as it should have like the initial 747 did! Mind you that was probably to compensate for a plane full of americans :D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4488361.stm

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There's nothing finer than putting one over on our American cousins :)

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erm .... how did they test the undercarriage on the ground ?????

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Sounds like they have a lot Toulouse on this.....

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I was amazed that it flew from Tolouse..........thats a piddly little airport

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You put body jacks under the plane and then merrily run the undercarriage up & down.

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If it's got the runway length then surely the quietest airport you can find would be best? You wouldn't want to test an aircraft at somewhere like Heathrow.

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Their production site is adjacent to the very BIG airport at Toulouse. OK - the terminal may not be that big, but the rest - i.e. the bit that handles planes - is certainly BIG.

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I realise that - which would be why I deleted my post.

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looks very impressive i must say.

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So the thread's nothing to do with this geezer then.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

:D

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There's always one ...... typical ;)

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As if that was ever going to fly :rolleyes:

Just a bit worrying that someone went to Paris to see Big Bird!!

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Absolutely, I'm just amazed it had the runway length.
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Ah.....It's not apparent if you've been there............

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Tolouse has a very nice new terminal building nowdays, after all it is where Airbus bigwigs meet and greet the great and the good of the airline world when they pick up the keys to their shiney new aircraft.

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Watched it live... bit geeky, I know, but I kinda like planes, having worked for Air France a few years back.

Personally, I think that Airbus are going in the right direction in developing a supersized plane, as opposed to Boeing who are concentrating more on mid-sized planes such as the Dreamliner.
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and the Government officials when they get a backhander ;) ...not that Boeing don't get (more than) their fair share too.

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There is a lot of space down there. STN for example also has a huge long runway (for those B52s to take off from back when it was a Military base).
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But make sure all the jacks are in place before you try this. Lufthansa wrote a 747 off last year by performing this test without one of the jacks in place, snapped the plane in two.
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They are both going in the right direction. The market needs the supersize me plane for ultralong haul and capacity constrained destinations where price sensitivity exists. The Dreamline (787) is going to compliment the 777 perfectly on US coast to coast and transatlantic routes where frequency is also a key factor. If you look at BAs schedule they fly a mixture of 744s and 777s out of JFK hourly from 6pm to 11pm. This suits the business pax perfectly as they can miss their 7pm and know they have an 8/9/10 flight to catch (and pay for the benefit). On a Tokyo > London route where departure times are constrained by arrival times and airport opening / closing hours the 380 is far better.

Re backhanders - the EU are more open about the whole process, the US provide a lot of money to the commercial airline co's through their military divisions, the 747 is a commercial offshoot of military development, wheras the 380 has been financed by explicit soft loans for the project (no claims it would make a great military freighter / transporter).

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a few back of the envelope calcs:

4 x trent 900's produce a maximum of 84,000lbs of thrust each
MTOW is 590,000 Kg so max accn is about 2.25m/s/s

could reach mach 0.25 in about 1500m. sounds reasonable...

edit: they reckon 3000m is needed, should be able to hit mach 0.35 if its flat out!

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Yep, I'd agree that development for both superjumbos and mid-sized is necessary, as they're targetting different markets (nice examples, by the way :) ). I just wonder whether Boeing's decision to effectively scrap the plans to stretch the 747 and instead solely concentrate on the 7E7 was a good decision. I think Airbus have the right idea, even though they're now going to be several years behind being able to compete with the Dreamliner.

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Really? The 330/340 class of aircraft is already a widerbodied aircraft that the 777, it is fly-by-wire reducing the weight and technologically ahead of the 777, for Airbus to build their 787 will IMHO be a re-engineering of the 330 putting lighter composites in place instead of the metals that are currently there.

Anyway perhaps they are planning a supersonic dreamliner sized 'craft once they have the 380 launched. ;)

Re: Big Bird Takes Off (and lands safely)
 

She's home again.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4488361.stm

Thread title updated accordingly. :D

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She?? She SHEEEEEEEEEE, Le Avion, not LA

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Typical. I thought the French were meant to be romatic, how can they class something as graceful as that a 'he'? :rolleyes: :D

Airplanes are definitely 'she'.

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Actually it l'avion - and yes, that's a 'masculine' noun, but like with ships etc. aircraft are usually referred to as 'she'. (In the English speaking world, anyway)

Just see what happens when someone tries to do away with that:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/...omy/138678.stm

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And the world is English speaking, much to the annoyance of the French. :D

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but they did cunningly stick the ÃÃâ€*’© on ConcordÃÃâ€*’©.

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Its briliant it toook off. Such a great thing to see.
I would have loved to be onboard.

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Yeah - looked quite smooth for something that big.

I think I'll wait for a flight after it's been certified. :erm:

Quote:

Taking no chances, the crew had been equipped with parachutes. A handrail had also been fitted, leading from the cockpit to an escape door.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4488361.stm

Re: Big Bird Takes Off (and lands safely)
 

One of the points about the A380 is it needs the same or less runway than a 747, so anywhere a 747 can land/take off a 380 can too (this includes Stansted, where the runway is only about 10,000 feet actually, a fair bit less than Heathrow). Whether it can park at the terminal is a different issue - I'm a bit concerned about what happens when one of them has to divert to an airport it can't park at - do they put it in a corner and empty the toilets every hour till the original airport is open again? Pleasant.

As far as I can see from the order book, the 380 is aimed squarely at the Gulf airlines and south east Asian countries - it's best suited to long-haul flights rather than hops to New York and other eastern US destinations (which barely counts as long-haul when it's only using about half your maximum range). 787s and 777s should have the Atlantic run sewn up - there are lots of suitable places to serve direct either side of the pond, so Boeing's strategy appears sound there. Long haul to Hong Kong, however, it breaks down and Airbus cleans up. I think there's room for both and given that China is going to be so damn important Airbus may be pointing the way forwards.

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If one were to land at Nottingham East Midlands Airport (which is almost big enough in terms of runway size) then they would do what they do for all planes there, park it up on an empty stretch of concrete, then ferry people & bags around on those funny vehicles...

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The difference, of course, is that the A380 would roll up with at least four times as many people on board than your average Airtours flight. Even airports like Heathrow are sweating at the thought of having to get that many people on and off a single plane. And that's assuming the plane is configured with the 'typical' 555 seats. They can get well over 800 on board one of those things if they want to.

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sure, but what i'm saying is it might not be as comfortable or as quick as at a big airport, but it wouldn't be a major problem. if it was full, i would imagine they could shut down the taxiways and everyone could walk the hundred yards or less to the terminal...

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Of course they could not it would be against 'elf n safete' wouldn't it.

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The last time I flew from Luton to Glasgow on easyjet we had to walk from the terminal to the plane.

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Was the plane parked at a gate, just not using the jetway? This is fairly common with the LCCs as it is quicker and avoids damage to the 'craft from the jetway.

An A380 would be parked on a remote stand, not outside the terminal building, to ensure you are not sucked into the engines of a passing plane (or run over by an airside vehicle) they need to use the shuttle busses to move you around.

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Aye, but you only had to walk a short distance, and the plane was on an official 'stand' at both ends. At Luton, they made you walk straight from the plane to the building and then skirt the outside of the building until you got to a door. At Glasgow the plane stops close to the door so you just walked from the plane to the door. If the plane stops on one of the stands at Luton that isn't next to the terminal building, then they provide a bus.

The problem with the A380 is it can't get anywhere near a terminal building at any airport in the world. The bigger the plane, the further apart the parking spaces need to be, and currently the largest stands are configured for a 747, which isn't as big as an A380. Having watched a 747 taxi behind another one on its stand at Heathrow, and seen just how little leftover space there was, it's evident to me that those airports that have announced they will make alterations to accommodate the A380 have an expensive job on their hands.

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The alterations to the various airports at a terminal level are not as bad as they could be as the A380 was designed around the 80m2 box that airports build 747 stands around. LHR has tweaked T5 to ensure that A380s can use that easily and are doing some tweaks to T3 for the same reason.

The more costly part is the review and re-engineering of taxiways and lighting as the 380 is not as manouverable as the 747 and needs additional shoulders added to corners and consequently lights need to be moved to put this extra concrete in place.

More forward thinking airports are also considering double deck boarding gates to board both decks from the terminal rather than all the upper deck pax having to walk upstairs.

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SMH, you seem to know a lot about the aviation industry - mind if I ask if you're in any way connected, or is it just an interest of yours?

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Theres a growing demand for both markets that Boeing and Airbus are going for.

More people are travelling to smaller, quieter airports, so making those cheaper would be a bonus, but many people are also travelling between major airports too. Demand is exceeding supply, not because of planes, but because of take-off/landing spots which are worth are nigh on impossible to get because they are so scarce. Having a much bigger jumbo, more people can travel, without needing to get another take-off/landing slot.

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There are also the logistics of servicing between flights, more catering trucks, cleaners, congestion at baggage reclaim, queues at imigration and customs.
Once the pax are through pressure on catering more cabs, parking on and off airport and buses, and just think when one goes tech and they have to find overnight facilities or have all those travellers camping out in departures. In other words it will be just like flying to Spain in the '60s and '70s :)

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Will they be crashing one just so that the airport firemen can get some practise in dealing with real crash/emergency? ;)

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Just an interest.

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Good point...... lots more body bags required :angel:

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Won't the skills for fighting a fire on one of these be very similar to a 747 though, two decks, lots of bodies...

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the things barley even flown and were talking about crashing one :D

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The vast majority of incidents occur on take off or landing, it is very unusual for an aircraft to fall out of the sky so the incident is usually easy to get to as it is near the airport. BEA 548 was an example of this, although it made a mess of the Staines by pass it was relatively easy to manage and the fire was not very big. (I went on the job from Wimbledon as a very junior crew member when it was virtually all over)
The response to all incidents includes foam tenders to quell the fire to allow time to evacuate plus other units to supply water and perform rescues
Definitely lots of pieces of bodies scattered over a larger area and a lot more local damage. I would imagine that contingency planning has already started to ensure the foam tenders have enough throw and that the pumps will have enough water to enable knock-down of flames for a longer time to allow escape, but i do not think that an A 380 incident would leave many alive.
When I fly I always try to get a seat near the emergency exit over the wing just in case !

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True - considering the widebodies put up in the air over the last few years, there have yet to be any fatalities on A330s, A340s and 777s.

Only Air China (2002) and Korean Air (1997) have lost 747 hulls in flight, Singapore bent one on a closed runway in 2000 and of the other deaths associated with 747s since 1997 most have been individual deaths from turbulence, cigarette smoke (yes really).

It really is true that you are more likely to be involved in a crash on the M25 on the way to LHR than you are a plane crash once you are there.

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Good idea. And you normally get a bit more leg room there too due it being the exit routes.