Is it time to fill up
 

My mate has just come home saying he has filled up feaqring there is another protest.

should i also be filling up scared of a protest?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...nd/4483881.stm

or is it just a damp squib...

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I filled up last night, though I often do anyway. No point taking any chances if your job depends on it.

The government say don't panic buy, as supplies won't be interrupted even slightly. In which case, you may as well panic buy anyway just in case they are lying, because if they are NOT lying, then panic buying won't do any harm, since supplies won't be interrupted and will remain plentiful!

That's my logic anyway.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

:disturbd: @ scrotnig :D

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Theres logic in there somewhere just gotta find it :D ;)

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

if it does happen then work are supposedly going to ferry us in by minibus , the logic of that is we HAD a diesel store on site , the problem is , it has been taken from the site because it was not needed anymore , couldnt organise a p!ss up in a brewery :mad: :mad: :mad:

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I wish I worked in a brewery :( :p:

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Last time everybody (including the government) were caught out and surprised at how much of an impact a few protests caused.

This time, I imagine the government has contingency plans and will not let it get to the same state.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

No, they SAID they had contingency plans. They also said Saddam Hussein had WMDs and I didn't believe that either.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

heh, i filled up yesterday... could probably stretch a tank full to well over a month if i'm careful... :D



(apologies for smugness...)

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I'm ****ed, £40's worth of petrol last me a week if I'm carefull.

Means I wont be able to get to work, unless I did what I did last time and fill up at 4am.....set off as I watched the BP tanker go past where I lived :D

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I use a quarter of a tank every weekday getting to work and back, so I think I'd be a little knackered.

Having said that though, I've always said that, if I didn't have any petrol / not enough money to get petrol / nowhere was selling petrol, I'd just ring in sick anyway - there's no way I'm walking 35 miles to work :p:

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I had just started a new job that was 65 miles away, in my first week, when the last protests occurred!

I managed to get to work for the first 3 days but could not get any petrol for the last two days that week. Luckily, I was mostly reading documentation so they let me work from home for those two days!

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

A tank of Deisel lasts me just over a week, but then again this will probably come to nothing...

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Filled up last night as the BP station down the road had no fuel which i thought was strange as its was only shell that was being picketed.

2 cars full to the brim will last us about 2 months if we need it too

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Who knows - but I'd rather not get caught out with a nearly empty tank if/when it happens.

[In fact, last time it happened I managed to fill up both cars + 20L jerrycan before the panic started which, with avoiding journeys where possible, saw us through the entire protest until fuel supplies were back to normal.]

And also in the news today:

Quote:

Increased world oil prices have helped boost BP's profits over the past three months, the firm has said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4484345.stm

Great timing...

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

A tank lasts me less than a week due to the distance I drive to work. But then I can work from home if need be. Bring it on, I say, anything to give Blair a pre-election kick in the 'nads. :D

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I'm planning on filling my 4 x 20litre cans that I bought around 3 years ago 'cos I had to travel to London and back each month and the political situation looked like there may be shortages. I keep them in a special ventilated concrete housing. some 100ft away at the botttom of the garden.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Nah he had lots of WMD but managed to flush it all down the loo before getting busted :D

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

sounds to me as if you lot are responisble for the shortages :) you got it all stored away in 2 cars and down the garden

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

If they do protest again good on them, should hopefully remind the population over how the governement have shafted the population in so many areas.
I'm suprised that none of the parties have vouched to reduce fuel duty. As surely this will get shed loads of votes since the issue has got as far as mass protests

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

There is time yet, for the parties to swing round to this as an electionerring excersize.

Put double my usual in just in case.
If it comes to it, providing the weather is OK I'll cycle in.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Double your usual?

Ah, are you part of that strange sociological phenomenon that goes to a garage and buys £20 worth instead of simply filling it up? :D Always found that a little odd myself. :p:

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Carrying less fuel means your moving around less weight so your fuel economy will be slightly raised. Of course this is easily offset if you have to go out of your way to fill up mind

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I put £20 in that should last me a month if I eek it out and dont do unecassery drives... Thank god I brought a deisel van last week!

I don't think this will ocme to much, the media is largly ignoring it, and with out the media to panick everybody, nothing will happen....

I wonder if I could start the panick buying by creating a well worded viral email... tehe

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I doubt you'd have to worry about supply halting. Petrol is easily sourced from everywhere, so even if one or a few sources went dry, they'd still be able to get it in.

I know the US has, so I assume we do to, have an emergency supply of petrol and oil to help keep the fabric of society together, if things got that bad.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I live by the refinery and went by it about 30 mins ago. There`s not much happening down there, tankers are getting in and out with no problems. the shell garage in the town has no queues and people here dont appear to be panic buying.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I'm not bothered really - I'm an essential car user at work, so if I run out of petrol there's no point in me going. I have to carry around a bootful of heavy equipment and there's no way I can get that round by public transport (or on the back of my bike!)
However, what my boss would say to me not going in is another matter entirely! ;)

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

The thing is, by and large there were no blockades in 2001 either. Just a lot of men standing by the refinery gates and asking tanker drivers to stop and talk to them, just as now. The thing about 2001 was, the tanker drivers, who all own their own cars as well, were as keen to protest as anyone else, so although they refused to drive past the crowds on grounds of 'safety', in reality that was the excuse they used to stop deliveries.

These protests won't work, because there isn't the same popular outrage now as there was in 2001. In 2001 the problem was quite specifically caused by tax, and iniquitous tax is one thing pretty much guaranteed to make Brits take to the streets. This time round prices are high but this is largely due to world oil prices. Yes, fuel duty is still very high but not absurdly so by British standards, and there is no longer an 'escalator' ensuring vast annual rises above inflation.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Oooooohhhh Pooooooh!

Only just seen this thread, need to fill my car up as there's only about 10 miles left in the tank (yes, I can predict it that closely) - when's all this happening then?

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

During the last blockade we had an exemption form to fill up at our local Morrissons, we do work for the NHS so we were allowed to fill up there. The other motorists were watching us fill up, they were foaming at the mouth some followed usin thinking they had found somehwere to fill up :D :D

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

i nearly caused a riot at my local petrol station , there are 2 entrances to it and i went in the one no one else was using , needless to say the local meatheads were not happy :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd:

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I'm amazed to see how much of a deal it was to a lot of people in 2001 - I didn't have a car then and went to work on public transport, so it made naff all difference to me. Nowadays I do drive to work, but there's a parallel train (40-45 minutes longer, though). And I can always work from home if necessary.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

lucky you then , as it would take me over 2 hours to get to work on the bus it is not really an option :erm: , and i cant work from home , so for me it is a very big deal ;)

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Quite - it's worrying how much we're dependent on private transport (outside London, anyway). We seriously need better public transport if oil is going to be this high in price (and it is, it's all downhill from here production wise). More efficient cars would be nice, too, of course.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I filled up as normal tonight - it didn't seem any busier than normal.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Would be nice if we had a pro-motorist government for once though, then hopefully incidents like this would be rare.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I would love to go to work on public transport if only it was reliable and feasible.

My car journey takes about an hour and 10 mins to get there in the morning, the earliest train from my local station (over 2 miles away) would make me late by nearly an hour, it would also involve two changes, one at Bristol and another at Cheltenham. I would then have to leave after only working a six and a half hour day, so I could be home before 20:00 hours.

And the privlidge would also involve costs a fair bit more than my current fuel bill. Public transport is very poor except in large towns and cities, I get annoyed at idiots like the Liberal party who say they are going to tax heavy to force people to use public transport. :mad:

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I'd love a bus or train which will leave Gowerton in Swansea at 2am to bring me back home from my show but given the state of transport around here, that's just not going to happen.

So my car it is then.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Anyway this protest isn't about fuel tax but about the lack of support for the diesel using lorry drivers.Who I think do have a point.They are facing competition from the continetal lorry drivers who all get concessions and pay lower fuel taxes and this government promised to look at the situation after the last lot of trouble in 2001 but just forgot about it.However I thinking blockading won't solve anything and won't get the government doing anything. :(

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Give em hell Paul!!!

:D :D :D

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I think a lot of people would. I personally do use public transport, but thats partly because I can't drive (although I will be learning once my eye is sorted), and partly because it would actually take me longer to get to work by car (bizarre, I know, but the traffic around Catford and Lewisham is a nightmare in the morning), and I would have the headache of parking (there are 200 or so spaces on our campus, but over 3,500 people that could potentially want to use them. You have to be in by 7 to be guaranteed a space.

It would be considerably cheaper for me to drive though.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

The problem with public transport here is that the first bus doesn't leave my borough of Gosport until 6.30 am.Unfortunately hubby has to be in Havant by 7.00am.Therefore he has to either get a lift or drive.So using public transport is scuppered right from the start. :rolleyes:

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Where in the LD manifesto does it say this? Presumably you've read it before coming out with such a damning assessment.

It actually says:
1) Cut car tax for more efficient cars (presumably putting it up on *less* efficient cars, reading between the lines).

2) Encourage congestion charging (which isn't a tax, as it's optional for most people - for people for whom it isn't optional I'd cut it, personally, as a hardship grant)

3) Replace fuel tax and car tax with usage-based charging (whether this is technologically feasible or not is another matter, but we're interested in what they *say* here).

It also says that 'For many people..cars are a necessity and cannot be replaced by public transport'.

IMHO the LD manifesto on transport is quite weak, unfortunately. Nothing on nationalising the rail industry, for instance, which anyone serious about public transport has to do* (the Greens have it in, of course). And I don't see anything wrong with making people pay for the congestion and pollution they cause. If you're stuck in a traffic jam it's because a lot of people like you have chosen to drive on a road without the capacity for you all to be there, so it's your responsibility.

*Because it would save the cost of the UK's bit of the Iraq War every year in subsidies, around £4.5bn

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Oh please let there be blockades and fuel shortages again, pretty please!
Have you seen the price of diesel?? It's over 91p a ltr here around milton keynes!
When you consider on the rest of the continent it's about 2/3 to 3/4 the price of their unleaded, how can they justify the extra cost over here?
I think, thanks to the previous blockades and campains by the AA, people realise that the fuel companies and garage owners don't make much money from the sale of fuel, people know it's all down to tax.
And of course the tax/duty is a percentage of the price of the goods, so oil goes up because of the situation in the gulf, and hey presto it goes up even more because of the resultant duty increase!
Treasury is nice and happy, all this extra cash, no direct tax rise by goverment, in fact Gordon "I'll increase the escalator to 6p per year "Brown can say "ooo no, because of the high price of oil, we won't put up fuel duty", no, because you've already got the extra money needed you git!

Last year I took a ferry to france and filled up with 100ltrs of diesel. The savings paid for the cost of the ferry!

So come on lorry drivers and farmers, get the blockades going and lets use that to oust Labour!

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

And how is that going to make a difference? How will that do anything other than build up resentment against the people running the blockades? I remember back in 2000 queueing up for petrol, cursing the people responsible for the delays who, by their own admission, started off the fuel protests to speak out against the cost of petrol for lorries and transport firms, NOT the average person in the street who needed the stuff for their cars.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

You may get that wish sooner, rather than later:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4483663.stm

Quote:

Lorry drivers in Scotland plan to stage a protest over fuel costs outside the Grangemouth oil refinery.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Actually Russ, the AA found that the majority of average people supported the move as they were disgusted by the huge amount of tax we pay.
Remember at the time the AA were running their own campain showing that tax at the time made up 85% of the cost of fuel.
Much as they would have liked to, the AA however couldn't come out with actual support for the blockades.
Many petrol stations in london closed down and refused to sell fuel in support of the protest, because with fuel prices so high, the number of fill and runs has skyrocketted, costing them a fortune. The stations that have gone out of business from the fuel crisis are mainly those who started charging obscene amounts for fuel, as soon as the blockade stopped, people boycotted those stations.
Despite Tony Bliar trying to make the picketers out as the bad guys, people saw the truth, that us motorists were being screwed.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I remember a poll in the Mirror at the time which showed that most people were in support of the protests before and as it started, but once they saw how inconveniencing the whole thing was, they started to turn on the protestors, especially that guy who started it all, can't remember his name right now.

This is just like when people who provide a service to the public go on strike - it's as if inconveniencing the public directly will gain them sympathy and support. About 10 years ago I was out of work and there was a postal strike. My giro arrived 6 days late. OK I was living with my parents at the time and didn't need the money as much as some, but if I'd had children to support, what would the Royal Mail have expected me to say? "The kids will go without food, the house won't have any heating, but good on you fellas, you stand up to your bosses!"???

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Brynle Williams, now Conservative Assembly Member somewhere in North Wales.
__________________

Yep, I remember that well. They backed down after some hospitals explained that they were going to have to start refusing admissions. Public support turned very dramtically against them, because the government had said 'we will review this and announce measures at the budget in two months', yet the protesters refused to stand the protest down initially. At one point, one of them was even quoted as saying that 'if a couple of people end up dying it will be worth it to get the point across'.

As public support begin to ebb away, they agreed to stand down until the budget and review it then....and that's the last we ever heard of them til now.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Being withing the AA at the time was great because unlike a newspaper like the mirror, the AA doesn't have to pander to the political bias of the majority of it's members.

Unlike with postal strikes, or other public service strikes (anyone noticed an increase in them since labour got back in?) where the strikers don't react to the effects on the public, the fuel protesters did, it was looking like the blockades were going to affect deliveries of essentials etc, and they called them off, despite a large portion of the public wishing them to continue until labour reversed the recent tax hikes.

I remember when it started, and I first saw Bliar trying to make them out as the bad guys, thinking "he's going to do something that will help the truckers and farmers slightly, but do nothing to help the majority of motorists who back the campain", and I believe he did.
The protesters were doing something that the ordinary motorist couldn't really do, taking a stand against the disgustingly high taxes levied on Britain's motoring community!

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Yes, and STILL end up hated by the majority of the UK for their actions.

.

Methinks you and I were watching two different versions of the story.....

The Mirror's poll was indicative of many at the time, including one commissioned by the BBC which was put to Brynle Williams (if that was his name, I can't quite remember it now) when he took part in Question Time. It was worth the license fee alone just to watch him squirm.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

All I can do is tell you what one of the nation's motoring organisations found at the time.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Yes but the AA, being a motoring organisation is hardly likely to be neutral on the matter. It's like asking Jezza Clarkson his opinion on the UK's speed limits.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Sorry, that is off topic and as such I will not answer (hey, it works! :D )



Seriously though, the AA was badly affected by the fuel shortage, not a good financial thing to have happen when they were trying to make themselves look attractive to British Gas, if they weren't professional and interested in skewing their findings, they would have shown to have been against the blockade, as they always said they were against them from the start (despite being in agreement of the reason behind the blockades)

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

But as in the other case, it won't go unnoticed :D

No, what I mean is the AA's source of income - ie it's customers - are people who would be directly affected by the blockades, so they're not going to present evidence which would serve to antagonise it's members. I'm not saying the AA lied but more likely they took their customers' feeling in to account when presenting their findings....

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

If the customers (as you say, most likely to be affected by the blockades) said they weren't happy with the blockades, surely it would be foolish for the AA to present a different view to their actual findings?

A poll in a newspaper who's reader demographic contains a majority of labour supporters is more likely to be in line with labour's view on the matter, that of protesters being bad, goverment good.
Just as a poll in an anti labour paper is likely to show the opposite (assuming it has been reporting on the situation with an anti labour/pro protester bias)

A motoring organisation is going to have members from all of the political spectrum, but most importantly, all members are going to be affected by the situation, therefore most likely to give an informed result.

There's no point asking if non-motorists support a protest or not because such a protest didn't affect them directly.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

It's a mystery to me too - however I remember the majority (if not all) the polls I saw around the time suggested the public were getting very weary of the protesters' actions. I'd consider the BBC to be as neutral as possible on the matter and each survey they undertook had the truckers as being VERY unpopular.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

the issue could be that those polls included non-motorists, and therefore people who have not had to suffer from the taxes.

it's like asking a group of tall people if they'd support a protest against a tax on short people, then comparing he result with what short people said.


You also have the issue of what questions were asked, ie did they say "do you support the current action of the protesters?" or "would you support the protesters if it caused hospitals to turn away patients and if food could not get to the shops?"
Lies, damn lies and statistics

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I can't quite see non-motorist being interested in such a poll really.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Depends if they've been told by the questioner that such a protest will mean people can't go to hospital or feed themselves, then it would affect them, and of course they'd be against it, as the majority of people would be.

Many popularist papers were talking about scenarios which the protesters had said from the beginining would never happen, ie food not getting to shops, no fuel for ambulances etc.

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

My local Tesco ran out of bread, milk and bottled water for two days!

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

I assumed the MP representing them on Radio 2 thursday afternoon before last was quoting the parties official stance on motorists and public transport. He was certainly saying that the Liberal party wanted usage chrges on roads, was not against further increases in fuel duty, and this was the way to force people onto public transport.

I dont have a name for the MP, and perhaps someone else here heard the conversation. I think it was the same idiot MP who was defending law and order, when a lawyer was telling a story about kids stealing a car in his street, stopping to talk to their mates, and the police taking two hours to turn up!

Re: Is it time to fill up
 

Maybe we'll be seeing prices coming down soon:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4492321.stm

Quote:

Oil prices carried on falling in early trade on Thursday, after plunging nearly 5% the previous day, their biggest one-day fall this year.