All F1 2005 Discussions
 

Nice. :)

Only 17 days, 15 hours 25 minutes to go.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

More news here

If it means more of a level playing field then it cannot come soon enough.

PS, this link http://sport.telegraph.co.uk/garside at the bottom of that page has lots of interesting info.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Minardi might not even be at the first race.. because the new rules were finalised so late they couldn't start building their new car until October \ November and so it isn't ready in time.

They want to race with their 04 car but this is based on the old rules and so potentially has more downforce, although it is a Minardi.

All the team have said they can race in the first 3 or 4 races with this car but one. Namely Ferrari, maybe they are worried Minardi will win the race.

Thing is if Minardi aren't there then 2 of the teams will have to field a third car to make up the numbers

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

"Well if *we* have to stick to the rules, so should everyone else...!" :rolleyes:

Although looking at some of those links, F1 may end up with Bernie Ecclestone and Ferrari out on their own and everyone else off to the new set-up!

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

And a jolly good thing too!

As Minardi proves, however much you mess around with the rules (and this has been an annual event in recent times), even to try to level the field, the teams with the most money will always make the best of any change.

Any alternative formula, should give serious thought to including "success ballast", as in Touring car, and in they case of Ferrari, they would acquire ballast for winning, and stay level or lose ballast for not winning, same for any other team - and one the current seson, not the previous, as the last season's winner isn't always going to be the top dog, though if Ferrari have a good run this year as well, it could be the final nail in the coffin of F1.

To say, "the other teams must catch up" is all very well, but it doesn't make for great racing.

Formula 1
 

I'd like to know what people here think about coverage of ITVs F1 .

I think is CARP :disturbd: they are more interesed in adverts than shown the race, a few years ago i timed the ads breaks (during the race) and it spen 4 mins each and 6 ads that's 24 mins :Yikes:

bear in ming that the average race is 130 mins thats nearly 1/3rd of the race.

(BTW don't get me started on that complete and total ^&^%^ Bernie :dunce: Ecckleston)

Re: Formula 1
 

I dont like the 2005 rules, they cant switch tyres, they cant switch the engines its getting stupid.

open up the tracks and even out the rules.

As for the adverts I tend to video f1 then just skip the adverts by as it is damn well stupid. And I thought Sky-One was bad.

Re: Formula 1
 

yes we dvd recorded it and watch it latter

Re: Formula 1
 

The first race was made interesting after the weather mixed up the qualifying.

I expect to see a return to the usual procession.

Remains to be seen if the "one set of tyres lasts the race" rule actually helps overtaking, with less "helpful" rubber laid down on the racing line, and a lot less "marbles" off it - the track was a lot cleaner!

Just where is F1 going - it's not pushing the technology (other than the best teams clawing back most of downforce the new rules took away), and it's not good racing ... just look at Touring car, or rallycross for a more exciting sport.

Re: Formula 1
 

good questions :tu:

I would dispute that F1 is not 'pushing the technology' - it is being sent in another direction by the rule changes, but will still push the technology. :)

- but bring back rallycross I will go with - metro 6r4 rules, I wish I had one ;)

Re: Formula 1
 

brings back memories of the croft circuit when it was a proper rallycross circuit :tu: :tu: :tu:

Re: Formula 1
 

lydden hill, still

:)

Re: Formula 1
 

Touring cars is good to watch, aint followed the WRC championships much.

Aint the excuse for all these Rules being put onto Formula 1 that it is due to the safety of the drivers?? what is sport if it is not dangerous?

I am sure those WRC cars when they come off at 140mph on a snow track on a mountain run into the trees, they dont come out with new rules year after saying they cant change the tyres or make modifications to the engine because condition has changed?

Re: Formula 1
 

getting back to the op's subject ;) , ( there is a f1 discussion thread here ) i dont mind itv's coverage , what does annoy me is the amount of adverts :mad: , mind you i cant see the bbc getting the coverage back :(

Re: Formula 1
 

I don't see why they have to have so many advert breaks during F1. They don't have them during play in the Champions League. You don't even get full coverage of all the qualifying sessions now either.

Re: Formula 1
 

yes not showing the qualifying is really bad.. they have ITV 1,2 and 3 now so instead of showing to repeated programs on IVt 2 and ITV3 they can show it on there

Re: Formula 1
 

I seriously wonder if it is being removed from all tv broadcasts is what F1 people want.


Because if this is there offer what we have now on ITV, then it is no wonder figures are dropping.

Re: Formula 1
 

Being as Formula 1 is supposed to be about good driving not cars, I still think the best way to settle it, is to have a standard engine, transmission, drivetrain and tyres (fixed pitstops as well?). Everyone gets the same, so the only difference would be the driver... Then we'll see who is the best driver.

Re: Formula 1
 

to be fair on ITV they aren't the only broadcaster who isn't showing the second session but they might be one fo the few that has a choice of three channels to show it on..

the thing that is stupid is that now a casual viewer will watch qualifying on Saturday and then when the race starts there will be a different grid and they won't know why
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yes i agree it needs to go back to be more about the driver but having standard parts, cars, engines etc isn't what formula 1 is all about.. you need to have the tecnhology and different manufacturers in there but the FIA needs to do it's job and control this better..

what they need to do is go back to no tyre stops and no refueling that way the only way to pass someone in on the track and not in the pits..

the other thing that needs to be done is get rid of all the sensors on the cars.. there are so many that they can overrule the driver now and a bad driver with a good engineer can go through all the data and still end up with a quick car and win a race..

with no sensors it's down to the driver skill.. also without the sensors they can't tell what the car is doing and so you can't have traction control, etc

Re: Formula 1
 

That would be very interesting, to see how cars react carrying enough fuel for the whole race. I suspect that extra weigh wold mean you have to be a great driver :)

Re: Formula 1
 

Imho there are numpty other formulas that do exactly that. Having some diversification is what makes f1 different from the rest.
The race itself was rather dull but itv's coverage makes it much much worse. I'm not to fussed about the adverts but that pillock they've got for a commentator otherwise known as james allan, should go back to reporting from the pits and stay there. and as for the pre race coverage at melbourne was farcical. They spent twice as long bantering on about webber visiting a cricket stadium than showing qualy 2 :td: :td: :td:
The grid walk was also short because of the pointless banter. ITV's f1 team needs to take a serious look at how ITV's wrc team run there show, currently the wrc coverage is 1000x better. Pointless speculation is almost non existant, they have specials that are about rallying for one thing. In todays coverage they had one of the commentators take a marshalls safety car around the stage, showing both what the safety car does AND what a stage in mexico is like bit :tu: :tu: :tu: for that. Intermixed with that they had solid coverage of the stages with commentators that a) knew what they were talking about and b) interesting to listen to.
Somehow they managed to squeeze 3 days of rallying into an hours worth of show (1hr 1/2 for mexico as its normal coverage slot was just before the start of the 3rd day)

Re: Formula 1
 

Personally, I am disappointed with ITV's coverage in Australia. Given it was in the middle of the night - and they have 3 ITV channels - I see no reason why Q2 could not have been shown. It is more important than Q1.

Personally, I have no problem with the ITV Team (Jim R should never have been given it, should have got Steve Ryder back from the BBC).

What would really be good (but goes sort of back to Sky F1) - would be an ITV F1 channel - which showed all practise & Qualyfying, along with no ITV adverts. The could use the same transmission as ITV1 (I believe that Australia and some others take an ITV feed). I for 1 would pay a fee for it.

Re: Formula 1
 

Good idea in priciple, howver I would not pay for it, F1 has just become so montonous and predictable of late.

I am hoping that it will become more interesting this season however with the new rules personally I thought Australia was a bit bland.

Besides, was there not already an F1 channel on sky?

Re: Formula 1
 

the channel Sky had was the digital channel that you had to subscibe to.. you could select camera angles etc just like with footie.. Bernie put loads of money into this and it never really took off.. they didn't get the numbers they wanted so it was axed..

only why you might be able to get all the sessions would be to get RTL, TF1 etc then might be able to see them on the foreign channels.. you can go to Formula1.com and see the timing screens live but not quite the same thing..

Next race this weekend and I will be on holiday damm..

Still don't think we learn enough from Oz to see how the season will go.. might have to wait till the proper 05 Ferrari is raced until we know for sure how things are looking

Re: Formula 1
 

Ahh thats what happened to it hey?

This is precisely why I would not pay, there are only so many angles you can watch a procession from :p:

I hope you are right... :angel:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

It looks like Uncle Bernie is having his fingers slowly prised off his baby.

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Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

A step to "avoid the disaster of two championships" - why avoid it?

Of course, two championships would be unlikely to continue, a new one would either oust the existing championship and managemant, or fail against it - some new blood, and some ideas other than annual rule changes are sorely needed.

Or maybe F1 has just out-evolved itself - it was always a technology race, and by the time the idiots decided to block a technology, it was already filtering down to the lower teams.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

It's just not Bernie's week. :D

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Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

ok at the start of the season the FIA said engines had to last 2 races..if the engine failed or was changed then you got a 10 place penalty for the next race

At the first rae the wto BARs withdrew before the end of the race so that they could start Malaysia with a new engine. Also Schey and Heidfeld had a nwe engine for Malaysia as they both crashed.

In the second race both BARs failed to finish due to engine failure.

For the Bahrain GP both BARs had new engines and also Schuey had a new car and engine. None of these drivers had a 10 place grid penalty. Why ?

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

good question - as far as I know the situation with BAR was a loophole they exploited, that has since been closed, effectively they got a new engine without penalty, because they didn't complete the race.

With Shumi & Heidfeld I don't know, Shumi's car was new, but are you sure it was a different engine??

:notopic: the glimpse of A1 racing shown on 'fifth gear' last night looked interesting, 450bhp engines, slick tyres, no driver aids, but plenty of downforce. It is like a relaunch of F3000. Worth keeping an eye out for in September. ;)

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Yes BAR used a loophole to get a new engine for Malaysia which has been closed but then they failed to complete what was the first race for that engine, hence they should have got a 10 place grid penalty.

For Schuey the new engine wouldn't fit in the old car they were running.. I'm sure he used the new car and engine and so should have got a penalty but didn't ..

Now both Heidfeld and Fisi failed to finish this race for Heidfeld this was the second race on that engine but he failed to finish so should get a penalty for the next race as should Fisi but how can they get a penalty when neither BAR did ?

A1 looks good but I which they had gone for less aero on the cars and wider slicks then could have sent out a real message to F1 on how racing can be

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

missed it didnt i :dunce: , i hought it was supporting all the european grand prix this season :confused:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

I don't have any answers, but you've raised some good points - in fact it seems ridiculous to me that we are discussing stuff like this, rather than the relative merits of the cars/drivers. It is ironic that these rule changes were supposed to help the smaller teams keep down costs, wheras it has just added more complication to an already overcomplicated sport.

Having said that - Sundays race was one of the most interesting for ages, lets hope it continues now the series moves to the European circuits ;)
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it's repeated - Friday I think, I'll try & remember to check my didiguide, when I get home. ;)

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

a few other points going round in my mind about F1 at the moment

The session we see on ITV for qualifying doesn't decide the grid.. despite the fact that they have 3 channels we don't get to see the second session.. this will be confusing to the casual viewer..

when the did sho qualifying 2 they had already shown footage of the grid live and I had already seen a Spanish flag on pole and a german flag in second.. the footage I got of qualifying 2 was 5 seconds of the top 6-8 cars...

ITV aren't the only channel doing this so it's not all their fault but they do have the power to shcedule their 3 channels around showing f1

one of the advantages of single lap qualifying is each team gets gauranteed footage on TV.. great for the smaller teams.. with the way the footage is shown at the moment that isn't the case

all the talk about cost cutting and reducing testing won't have any affect.. even if the FIA bring in a rule then all the top teams will move the test budget to simulation running and wind tunnel work.. they won't save any money.. as the smaller teams won't be able to do simulation there will still be a big gap to them.. what the FIA needs to do is reduce testing, wind tunnel time and ban simulation.. plus any other avenues the test budget could be moved to this will then reduce costs rather than lead to the costs being used up elsewhere

the very rules of F1 are wrong.. 80-90 % of the car is designed for you bar the rules and then whoever has the best wind tunnel program \ tyres will win the races.. this needs to change as the smaller teams have no chance of doing anything on their budget and will always remain at the back.. they can't bring in a breakthrough in design that will give them a 2-3 second advantage with 80-90% of the car alerady designed before the season has started

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Correct as usual, Friday at 19.30. I watched last nights programme and also liked the look of A1 cars.:tu:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Whilst I agree that teams with the biggest budgets have an advantage in F1 the same can be said for any competitive sport and it has been that way since time began. What are the solutions?

You could have all teams running the identical spec of car and engine as is done in some racing. You could even go so far as to have a pool of cars which drivers draw lots as to which one they drive. That would, in my opinion, ruin the sport. You really do need each team doing its own thing which leads to more innovation which has benefits outside of F1.

You could have penalties for success like the weight penalties used in touring cars which I would find more acceptable.

You could have a two race situation at every Grand Prix. Two shorter races with the first run as it is now and the second run in reverse starting grid order to the first. This should lead to some interesting racing in the second race.

Any other ideas for making F1 more competitive and unpredictable?

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

The logic of the engine rules seems to be...

If you fail to finish, due to mechanical fault or damage, then you MAY replace the engine.

If you finish, then you must make the engine last two races.

Where the loophole was, they "failed to finish" by simply pulling out of a non-points placed finish. though quite how they prevent anyone claiming they had a problem, unless they leave it to scrutineering to decide if the car was actually in a bad enough condition.

How long before the first argument over changing a "dangerous" tyre... the mechanics had better have something to make sure the tyre is punctured... oops, I mean to check the tyre is punctured.

Just like the problem of team orders - anyone can mess up a corner.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

:nworthy: to ms and ferrari :tu: , as for itv , have a look in the other thread :mad:

Re: Formula 1
 

itv want a right good ****ing if they think that is the way to conduct themselves :mad: , 2 laps from the end of a thrilling finish and they go to adverts , :2up: itv , i just wish their was an alternative like a few years ago when eurosport covered it , and before anyone says it , i know eurosport had ad breaks but not at the ridiculous times that itv seem to have them :mad: :mad: :mad:

Re: Formula 1
 

I think what put the tin hat on the ****pot as far as I concerned was having an advert break in the final four laps of the race - what a complete bunch of T***ERS. It was quite exciting at this point!!

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

no need to bow so low pauly the prancing hourse is still prancing about was only a matter of time before it was shod correctly :)

Re: Formula 1
 

I think you are right, Paul, it was ridiculous timing for that break, ITV are in the hands of the production company on that afaik, but putting aside who made the call, it was obvious they are not a fan of the sport :(

Re: Formula 1
 

So, how long before this thread gets merged with the other one on F1 then ;)

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

MS did very well to exploit his new boots, though (damn him ;) )

- but it has recently been the case Ferrari have had the best tyres on cooler tracks.

It was interesting watching Alonso use the superior traction of the Renault out of the slow corners, to stay ahead, when the Ferrari was clearly the faster car, overall. Having said that, I think Shumies brakes were fading towards the end.

I would like to see something done about the 'dirty air' preventing the cars getting close enough for decent overtaking opportunities, though :(

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

A good race, but rotten coverage!

It would have been a Ferrari-led procession if Shuey hadn't messed up the qualifying - the shock being that he was QUALIFYING with that long fuel load - since they can't shove a load more fuel in to go long because he's behind... from behind the following group, to 3rd, in one pitstop.

Misery for his team mate, drawing the reliability short straw yet again.


Definitely, the chase is ON - it would be nice to see the updates from the other teams keep them hanging on to the tail of the prancing horse too!

It was clear from the previous race, that the new Ferrari had speed, though the old one might have taken some points in that race.

With Alonso now 26 points clear of Michael Schumacher, that would take an unlucky 13 races to level, wins to seconds, so Ferrari are going to have to major in both speed and reliability to close the gap

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

dont get me wrong i aint no ferrari fan ;) , it just made a change to see such a close finish to a race , and yes the coverage was *****e , i could not believe it when they went to adverts so close to the finish :mad: :mad: :mad:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

The problem is that ITV are contracturally obliged to their advertisers to put in a certain number of ad breaks into the race and the show.

Because there was a lot of good racing instead of just a procession, they kept putting off the breaks until suddenly they must have realised that they were right up against the limit since the race was only a few minutes from the end.

It's still ridiculous and I wish the Beeb hadn't lost the coverage, but when it comes down to it, money talks :(

Re: [Merged] All F1 Discussions
 

Nice to see a relatively good grand prix then for change although I am not too sure what them half wits at ITV were playing at FFS a commercial break with 2 laps to go :grind:

Altho Im guessing as Graham said above advertising contraints etc.

Hacked me off with everyone big upping the 2005 Ferrari being the best car ever.

What utter crap more like Alonsos Renault was on its second race with the same engine and he was protecting it.

I doubt Renault will get the same credit in the next race on a new engine when Schumy is nursing the Ferrari around, oh no I forgot that wont happen as they retire with technical faults when it looks like they are not going to get in the points.

:D

Re: [Merged] All F1 Discussions
 

i hope you have all sent a snotty email to f1 about this boo boo i have bet they dont even say sorry or even come out with a feeble excuse

Re: [Merged] All F1 Discussions
 

the coverager by ITV was rubbish from start to finish. ITV have 3 channels now and when Q2 the bit that decides the grid now was taking place they were showing, Div 1 football, American Idol and some repeat on ITV 3 so why couldn't i watch it live.. esp has Mark and Martin would have been doing the comentarry for Canada, South Africa and I think Oz as well..

When they did show that i only got to see 4 cars and that was from their lap having already started and them being in the final sector so I couldn't see how well they had donw or what the gri order was at the time..

The ad as the end was just the final straw although really they should have been prevented from doing that in the TV contract.. It already states they have to show the world feed from 10 mons before the race up to the so many mins past so why not a clause about no ads in the first 5 or final 5 laps...

as to the race in colder conditions this helped the tyres that Shuey had so he got to second.. once again though what could have been a great race was spoilt by still have refueling.. Schuey was down in 13th knowing he had a far superiour car underneath him.. rather than risk overtaking on the track and something happening he waited for the other cars to stop and then put the hammer down.. if we didn't have any stops then he would have ben forced to use the performance of the car and overtake on the track

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

Not looking good for Button/BAR

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Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

bernie is pushing to have them excluded and it looks like that might happen at the moment.. this reminds me abit of the Benetton case in 94 where they had the software on their car for launch control but it wasn't proved that it was used.. which is the same as BAR here they had the potential to run the car underweight but it can't be proved they did.

Back in 84 Tyrell were found to be running their car underwight through the season and they had their results removed up to that point and were then kicked out the championship

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

BAR banned for 2 races !!!!!!!!!! :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd:

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

that seems about right.. it wasn't proved that they were cheating but then again they did break the rules

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

From reading the reports, it sounds like they were quite lucky it is 'only' two races. At least Button will be racing at Silverstone...

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

it still seems a bit harsh to me though , doing it this way has robbed to potential podium place cars from the grid , ho hum i suppose thats the way it goes :erm:

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

I think the big problem was that they just _assumed_ that it was legal and didn't bother to check.

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

Great race if you like to see Ferrari suffer!

For the last few years, Ferrari could do no wrong and Michael had all the luck!

This year, their luck seems to have run out, mind you, to make it interesting, they need to regain some of their form, before Alonso waltzes of into the distance.

The Renault is good, the Mclaren is good, the Toyata's seem to have really made it this season as well.

If Ferrari manage to get pace, reliability, and shake off the sheer bad luck that's now dogging them, they will also be up there - though that leaves the rest of the teams scrabbling for scraps.

Not much passing or close racing though

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

todays race was about tyres, as much as anything, the hot track conditions favoured the michelins, well done Kimi, Montoya has some catching up, to do ;)

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

now if i was to be cynical , this and what happened to BAR is close to helping ferrari out after their bad start to the season , i wonder if something will happen to Renault next :disturbd:

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

If you watch the live timing screens at www.formula1.com you have to register and log in now to view them. Don't know if that was the case for the last race as I was sunning it in the Canaries when that was on. Watched the race over there but it was on a 14" set with German commentry, yuk.

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

it wasnt the case last time , i wonder why they have changed it :shrug:

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

One of the more interesting races, and a supreme illustration of what they mean when they say a flatspotted tyre is like driving with a wheel shaped like a 50p coin.

If you didn't watch it live, the highlights are definitely worth a look - I've never seen one go like that before!

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

In the interest of safety though they ought to reconsider the position on tyres.

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

I don't think so. That was part of the thrill. Today McLaren had a choice to bring in Raikkonen, they chose to chance it and it back-fired. Better luck next time.

Ben

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

fair point - and I would 100% agree while it was 'just' causing vibration, but once it started to delaminate it was only a matter of time - and at that point it became a safety issue, in my opinion and the potential for that to impact (npi) on the other cars needed to be considered.

- as it was they threw away 6 points....

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

The problem is at what point does it become a safety issue? Can 'we' make a decent judgement based on what we can sort of see on the cameras. The driver can feel (!) whats going on but I doubt they can see very much from the cockpit.

I'm of the opinion it's one of those hazards of motor racing. If it starts to become a regular problem then yes maybe it should be looked at but right now, no. Stop meddling.

Ben

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

Many of the changes to F1 regulations have been made on safety grounds. The situation today could have had very serious consequences for not just the drivers involved in the race but also anyone anywhere near the racetrack. It's a good job the wheel tether did its job and prevented the wheel from flying off into the crowd. Exciting it may have been but it should be a priority to prevent a repeat.

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

like I said, in this case when the tyre starts delaminating, I am actually surprised he wasn't black flagged as a danger to the other drivers - difficult when he is in the lead, I know. As it was, the gamble didn't pay off & no-one was hurt, for which we should be grateful.

I agree with you in the main, but this whole business of one set of tyres lasting the race is looking extremely dodgy, in my opinion - that is the bit of meddling that shouldn't of happened ;)

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

With all the changes there have been this season it is becoming something of a lottery as to who wins. Engine and tyre endurance seem to be more important than driver skill. Weather forecasters will be an important part of the team as they try to determine what tyre compound to use.

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

would have to say that in this case the FIA \ stewards needs to overrul the driver.. none of them would come in even if they knew the tyre would go.. it's just the racers instinct.. that's why it needs the stewards etc to overrule the driver for safety reasons..

The FIA needs to put more pressure on the tyre manufacturers as well.. instead of making a tyre that will just survive a GP they need to make one that will survive a GP + some more miles

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

David Coulthard has labelled Formula One's tyre rules as "dangerous" after the late crash which denied Kimi Raikkonen victory at the European GP.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/4592713.stm

The problem IMO is that whether a tyre is "dangerous" or not is more than somewhat of a subjective decision. Ok, if it's blatantly delaminating and bits are flying off, yes, it should be replaced as happened, but making drivers keep to one set means they have to drive a bit more carefully and conservatively, something Raikonnen didn't really do!

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

You can't have the race officials making driver's decisions, based on a TV picture. There was an immense amount of skill required to keep that car on the track for as long as he did...he made a calculated risk and lost - that's the game.

The wheels are all tethered to the chasis now anyway, so the risk is far less than you're suggesting.

I also think you're over-simplifying the process of making a tyre. These bits of rubber are incredibly sophisticated - but just like on your car, how long a tyre lasts depends on lots of things...how you drive it, how many kerbs you hit, how warm they get, how warm the tarmac is, the quality of the tarmac and of course how fast you drive and brake.

Michelin and Brigestone are finding their feet with the new FIA rules of not changing the tyres mid-race, so the data that can be collected from a tyre that's been pushed over the edge will be extremely valuable to all drivers in future races.

I think DC has a point regarding the rules, but given the current situation he would have done exactly the same...all those guys have balls of titanium and would have risked a blow-out or crash if it meant the real possibility of winning the race.

The new rule, IMHO, does make for a more exciting race, it pushes the skills of the manufacturers and drivers as well as the development of much more sophisticated tyres. I think if we'd seen many cars coming off in every race then the rule would have to be reconsidered, but this is the first real problem of the season in that regard.

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

This race is a cracker, silly mistakes, black flags, good fun.:D
Have to feel sorry for Montoya, Jensons mistake cost him dear.

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

sorry no pity for Montoya

I must say that ITVs coverage is back to its C**P coverage with all these adverts, coming in at the wrong moment.

thay wouldn't put them in a footy match during a penalty shoot out

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

cracking race , mind you i wonder if anything will happen to kimi about the pitlane thing , but then can anything happen now ????? :erm:

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

Kimi? It was JPM wasn't it? And yes, the FIA could impose a suspension or worse in theory...he's not exactly teacher's pet right now.

You can't blame ITV for taking breaks and the something interesting happens during it. It's where you've got something interesting happening THEN they take the break...and I doubt they will do that again.

Saying that, motor sport is not the kind of game you can take breaks in, so either ITV should take breaks before and after but not during (like the footie), run a 5 minute delay so the director knows when to take the break or give it back to Beeb.

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

kimi cut up coulthard trying to get out in front of him :)

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

Sounds like I missed a good race.

Anybody know, off the top of their head, when the highlights are on?

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

ITV, 1155pm

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

Thanks Paul.

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

Or 2am Tuesday morning lol

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

soory but you can blame ITV for taking adverts, they don't have to put them in during the race.

I mean the drivers press briefing wasn't in the main programme but is being put (I guess) in the highlights show 11:55pm to 12:55am, and a I'm at work early tomorrow I aint going to be able to stay you that late.

All ITV care about is making money from the ads and don't care about their viewers

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

this race was worth it for 2 reasons - David Coulthard's comment on how he would use his pit lane limiter in the future - and the subject of his comment in a live interview, later ;)

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

You can't really blame him, though, he can't see what's behind him in that situation and it's the "lollipop man" at the front (usually the senior mechanic IIRC) who has to make the decision.

Unfortunately we didn't get to see a repeat of the incident during the main race, so it's hard to say more.
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Actually they do, because it's in their contract with the advertisers who are paying for exactly that.
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I didn't watch the highlights, care to enlighten me? (Please! :) )

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

sorry I didn't see this until just now - I've sent you a pm :)

Does anyone else think that this business with the Michelin tyres, at Indanapolis is a total farce. I cannot believe the FIA are basically saying it is for Michelin to sort out, but if any team uses a replacement tyre, they may be penalised.

- I would have thought swapping to new tyres just before a race would be a disadvantage, and given there appears to be a safety issue, that should take priority....

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

for me , the whole issue of running 1 set and being penalised is a joke :mad: , is it going to take someone being killed for this to get sorted out :(

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

rules being made by people who have never been in a f1 car nor ever will be, nor have ever raced one or even know the slightest thing about the car and its dynamics should never be able to change a rule which affects the car in such a way.

Re: All F1 2005 Discussions
 

absolutely - Bernie Ecclestone said yesterday there would be 'no way' the race wouldn't run - but, from what the FIA have said & the teams reaction. it is still a possibility that some cars may not race, or will do one lap & retire.

- the way this sport is run needs a major shakeup :(
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good point :tu:

f1 misery
 

Isn't it stupid of the michellin teams ... why they are screwing the race for everybody else ... just get on with it. I love racing and i am quite shocked to see whats going on just couple of minutes before it begins. save the race, keep the faith.

Re: f1 misery
 

the US GP being spoiled by the threat of litigation, whodathunkit? :erm:

Re: f1 misery
 

hmmm, so karthikeyan may be up for few points. who the hell they are trying to beat now since all of them have a promised point now. 6 car race ...

Re: f1 misery
 

I'm sure you wouldn't be willing to go round a track at 200 MPH after being told there is a very high risk of the tyres exploding.

Re: f1 misery
 

I have to disagree with you there. I enjoy Formula 1 and am disappointed that pig headedness has caused this race to be ruined but at the end of the day its only a sport and you can't risk people's lives. It's unbelievable that a solution could not be reached but I don't think these teams had a choice.

Re: f1 misery
 

Absolutley appaling. I'm on the brink of tears watching a sport i've loved and supported when i was 6 degenerate into this farce. How could Bernie and the FIA not sort this out and let this happen. RIP F1 in America.

Re: f1 misery
 

i too disagree with that. A tyre may cause problem in any given race. Even then how long does it take to consider this situation 'a special case' and allow a tyre change. its plain common sense i would say. Its not any teams fault, somone has made a mistake, rectify it (why they are paid huge sums anyways if they can't do even that). I would feel so stupid standing there after having bought the ticket to watch a race (not an off season practice).

Re: f1 misery
 

I find the whole thing a farce. I can't understand what benefits there were suposed to be in preventing tyre changes as part of pit stops in the first place. It's not as thought they were trying to stop pit stops as they still do those for fuel. Restricting to one set of tyres has had no real effect on speeds anyway.

The whole situation is pants. There must have been some sensible solution.

Re: f1 misery
 

maybe a merge with this may be in order , having said that , yes it is farcical :(

Re: f1 misery
 

Michelin couldn't garantee(sp) their other tyres either :(

Re: f1 misery
 

a simple solution for the fans - money back. Its not what they have gone to see. Its not what i am sitting with beers to watch. Already i can see beer cans flying on the circuit. STOP the b**dy race and reschedule it.