Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Its here! The new OS for the mac conitaing features such as spotlight and dashboard is arriving on the 29th! I've been waiting for this :D

http://www.apple.com//

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Nice!

Can't wait to give it a go.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Seems a lot of money for an ungrade which you can do yourself with a few freeware apps. You shouldn't have to pay full price if you are upgrading from Panther, surely...

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

An upgrade you can do yourself with a few freeware apps? You're having a laugh.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Granted dashboard is avaible but is much better when intergrated into the OS. The only other one is slow and you need to open it up as an extra application. spotlight is much better than anything on the market and supports 'smart' folders! Think of how itunes smart folders work and put that into the whole OS!

You can search anything to do with a contact on your address boook, images, videos, documents, emails, etc etc. BY name, anything! Then set up a folder that will automatically update. I.E Set up a folder for a client. Then every email then send you, any work you do, any notes, meetings, documents will automatically go into that folder, nroken up into sections based on file type or headers you choose!

Theres then a lot of under the hood improvements as well. H.264 is the new video codec used in HD-DVD and so on. (mpeg 4). It has bulit-in support for that. Core image and so forth have changed the way you mac will handle images/video etc etc putting more work on the graphic card than the processor making your mac much faster. People have tested it on a powerbook and had serveal high quality videos running at once with no slow down. This is due to H.264 (Higher quality at a lower file size!) and core image and many of the other stuff. :tu: http://www.apple.com/macosx/overview...sandmedia.html

Apple tell you everything new on each section, so you can really see the improvements. I am happy with the new video/graphic system. Spotlight and dashboard. Safari 2.0 (faster than firefox in tests). Automator (basically a massive macro maker across the entire system. Make your computer follow tasks you set up and choose a time to do it, do it on start up, whenever!

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

I've ordered mine, btw :D

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

You cannot do that with freeware upgrades. Look at the features of the OS. All the improvements, spotlight, smart folders, H.264, Core image, Core audio, etc etc
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me too :D only £59 with the nus discount.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

:shocked: B****y students with their cheap beer and cheap software ;)

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

I may have to change the roles of my 2 Macs once 10.4 arrives. The creaky old Y2K PowerBook (G3/500, 384MB, Rage 128 8MB) can take over as the iTunes & print server and the iBook (G3/900,384MB, Radeon 32MB) can become my main machine. I think it should run 10.4 a bit betterââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¦

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Windows users should also take note! Quicktime 7 will be released along with this OS

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Here are all the new fetaures:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/newfeatu...wfeatures.html

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

That makes it a bit more alluring than this page which lists "Safari RSS reader" (people actually use Safari?) as a "top new feature", and a widget to tell you what the weather is outside your window. Some of those features look quite good, although some of the others consist of nothing more than adding a key-shortcut, I wouldn't call that a new feature.

I still think it is a bit of a cheek charging the same for an upgrade and a full version. That just about sums Jobs up though. Some of those features are nice, but I am not upgrading yet, not at that price.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

mac always just release one OS, for new and old users. Also safari has a number of improvements. Also its dashboard, not just one widget. Spotlight and smart folders will be useful as will automator.

Theres are some big upgrades under the hoood core audio, core image, h.264, the openGL and quarz extreme improvements and so on

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Yes.

Seeing as how you can't buy a Mac without an OS, every version is an upgrade from whatever version of Mac OS you have on your computer.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

For those who are students... it is *much* cheaper to buy from the education store :)

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

youre telling me! Only £58 here :D

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Same here.. I find it superior to Firefox..


Actually, on a serious note, if I can get hold of a copy of Tiger, I'll probably play around for a couple of weeks on it, then re-install panther. For me, the new features (while nice) are not enough to persuade me to part with £60 (I qualify for student discount).

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

The new features are more than enough for me. Smart folders, spotlight, automator, dvd player improvements. Video and sound overhaul, safari upgrade (much faster according to people have have tested it)

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Windows XP was released in 2001. If you bought it then, you haven't had to pay a penny for the service packs and updates since, including new versions of Internet Explorer, Media Player, MSN Messenger, Windows Movie Maker, etc etc. Hell, if you bought XP Pro, they'll give you the 64-bit version for free.

With this in mind, how can Apple justify charging £99 foir a service pack every 12 months?

I'm not Microsoft's biggest fan, by a long way -- I'm typing this on a Linux box -- but even they don't seem as money-grabbing as Apple.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

I'm afraid there's no counter argument to that, except the upgrades are a little more significant than a service pack.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Much more. We get free services packs but this is a lot of new features such as spotlight, smart folders, dashboard, automator, and the video and sound overhaul which is getting overlooked here! This OS has the format for the new HD-DVD and high-def tv bulit into it, and we still get free updates of safari, itunes, quicktime, Windows media, and msn.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

I don't think it's quite fair to equate a move from OSX 10.3 to 10.4 with the issuing of a Service Pack by M$. Despite the naming convention Apple has opted for, what this really is is a move from version 3 to version 4 of Apple's Next generation operating system. More like going from Win95 to Win98. Apple, unfortunately, decided to do a Rover and carried on using the name 'Metro' even after the car was completely re-engineered from the chassis up, to make an analogy. I personally think they shouldv'e started again from 1.

Don't be confused by the headline marketing of all the new bells and whistles Apple has added to the OS. This is not just about adding freebie apps and applying fixes and patches. Us Apple users get fixes and patches just the same as M$ users do, the biggest ones prompting changes from 10.2.1 to 10.2.2 and so on ... (I still use 10.2.8, the last revision of OSX 10.2 before 10.3 came out). Apple makes significant improvements to the core OS with each release.

And, (can't resist a dig here), each version of OSX has actually performed better than the previous one, despite the extra features. For example anyone with a five-year-old iMac (like me!) will find that it runs OSX 10.3 as well as it ran OS9 that it shipped with way back in 2000. And it runs 10.3 better than it ran 10.2. This is quite refreshing when M$ is known for developing new versions of its OS that are a million times more bloated than their immediate predecessor and demand a relatively current PC spec on which to run.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

From what i have heard about Longhorn, Tiger offers most of the features that Longhorn will- so i see the change from Panther to Tiger as the eqivalent of going from XP to "longhorn"

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Excellently put :tu: (although the Rover example may not be the greatest at the moment :D)
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Not really, Longhorn doesnt offer many of these new features (spotlight, automator) and certainly isnt as advanced when it comes to the video and graphic overhaul that 10.4 has (H.264, Core image/audio and so on)

http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/overv...sandmedia.html

Longhorn has been scaled back, although i hope apple have 10.5 ready to take on longhorn. MS has a history of taken ideas from the mac platform

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

MAC users should just deal with their hangups and get a proper computer, a Windows PC, like what everyone else uses.

Same with those Linux nutters.

This blatant trolling post was brought to you by the newly-liberated Scrotnig Enterprises Ltd in association with WAZZO! washing powder - for a wash that's whiter than white!

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

I think you interpreted my post in the opposite way to i meant...

Microsoft are clearly going to charge a large sum for the upgrade to Longhorn- thus i view the change from 10.3 to 10.4 as similar to this- hence people should pay for it :)
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:blah: :knock: :D

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

But....

H.264 is just another video codec, and one that everyone will be able to view when Quicktime 7 is released. If Microsoft started advertising WMV10 as a major reason to upgrade to Longhorn, I don't think many people would take them seriously.

Windows users got upgraded to OpenGl 1.5 when the video card manufacturers updated their drivers, which was quite a while ago. Are Apple really offering a driver upgrade as a selling point? And while Apple certainly lead the way in getting the video card to produce fancy effects on the desktop, that's not new in this release.

I'm not entirely sure what that Core Audio does, but from reading the page, the only new feature is the ability to combine multiple soundcards into a single logical device. That's a nice trick, but how many people are actually going to use it? Also, Windows (and, I would presume, Mac OS 10.3) has no problem recording from multiple soundcards simultaneously -- it's just a bit more tricky to set up.

And as for performing better -- Apple have doubled the RAM requirements for Tiger compared to 10.3 ;)

Don't get me wrong, I like Macs, and I'd probably get one if I could afford it. But it always amazes me that every year, most Mac owners are willing to shell out a hundred quid for some updates that other OS's get free, and a few new applications.

If Apple released a "desktop applications pack" containing things like Spotlight, Dashboard, Automator, and released it for £25 or so, then that would be okay. But even the £60 student price seems like a rip off to me, for what you're getting.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

You are forgetting all the enhancements that require .mac access to work. Another £100 a year. Imagine the outcry if Microsoft started offering services in Windows that require a subscription.
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All true, however we do have Pentium 3 700's (from about 1999) with 128 Meg of ram that run XP (even SP2) well. I have a P3 700 at home (with 256 Meg ram) that runs Server 2003 well. Admittedly, it has started to creak a bit now I have installed Active Directory, IIS, Windows Media Server, Coldfusion server, SQL server and Exchange server, but it is still usable..

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Some features, all of them work but you can sync information as a back up to .mac (picture, bookmarks, address book, etc etc) but there are no features that require .mac to work. Even the feature that do have a .mac option are usually to do with putting information on .mac such as bookmarks/contacts.

Also its £69 not £100 (£50 until middle of may)

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

My thoughts exactly, even £59 seems a lot of money for what appears to be little more than a few new apps/tricks, of which it remains to be seen if you will use them. As an example, I think I've used Expose once (on 10.3). Decided it looked flash, and then forgot about it... I would not be surprised of Spotlight and Dashboard will be the same. And what is Automator? A front end for Applescript? I've got Applescript...

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Sort of. OS X uses OpenGL for the GUI (IIRC, every window is an OpenGL texture). If the upgrade to OpenGL 1.5 can provide performance increases then I suppose they can get away with touting it as a new feature, just as the version of DirectX that came with Win2K (can't recall which version it was) was a new feature for Win2K, as it didn't work on NT4 (or at least NT4 had a limited subset of functionality).

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

They are not really offering it as a selling point, its listed in one the sub sections towards the end

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

My apologies.. I thought a .mac subscription was £100..

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Well microsoft did do much smaller leaps before, (remember 98 to ME). But I agree it is on the pricey side for once a year, but this is how apple are developing. Remember is was a huge leap for them to move onto the X system. I will reserve judgement on how big a leap it is until I actually play with the software.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Good point. Despite how it sounds, I actually haven't discounted buying it. A certain person close to me has been making noises about getting a Mac Mini, so if that happens, I'll get it anyway..

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

get one... i did and it gets a :tu: :tu: :tu: from me...

I guess it is possible that the mini will ship with Tiger after its release anyway...

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Well they are slowing down with the upgrades now :( I admit that they are speeding though upgrades but as you say this is how they are developing. To be honest £60 a year is ok for a new OS. I prefere apple releasing an OS a year as it speeds up the development and makes the default OS much more advanced. Longhorn will not reach the level of the current OS for mac and Tiger can more than hold its own (although we have to wait to see what ideas MS use from tiger). Hopefully Apple will be secretly working on 10.5 to blow Longhorn out of the water, but not make it public until a surprise release around longhorn's arrival :disturbd:
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All macs always ship with the latest Operating system by defalut. It WILL have Tiger on it

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

And if it doesn't you can claim a free upgrade usually.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

I am SO close to buying an apple mini - just need to pursuade buxom woman......

It would be nice if it had the latest v of the operating system on it.

One question, when next years upgrade comes out - and say I don't want to buy it - do I still get free security upgrades?

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

yup updates for mac apps are released the same way (some would argue less reguarly) as windows updates

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Thanks for that :)

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

You should do. AFAIK, Apple are still patching 10.2 (Jaguar).

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Thanks :)

All I need now is a way to pursuade the boss to let me have one. I know I've already got a few pc's in the house - but I'd still like one :)

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

If you buy it between now and release you get a free upgrade less P&P which is £11. Otherwise, its 10.4
__________________

Macs rule! Be sure to get bluetooth, superdrive and if it needs to connect wirelessly then airport. Also get iLife for your photos. iPhoto is a great bit of software. You can search though photos in their comments/key words. So type in someones name and all there photos appear before you even finish typing! like itunes.

Also with tiger spotlight will work so say to type in a name all the emails, documents, photos, videos, pdfs, whatever will appear. You can narrow it down (mum, summer 91, bike) or (wife, wedding) and then everything contain those appear (it also searchs inside documents, so text in a word/pdf file will cause it to be listed. You can narrow down serchs as much as you want from date to file type. So if youre only looking for emails then thats all you look for :D If you search for the same term a lot like 'phone upgrade' then a smart folder will automatically store information containing that term. So phoone upgrade will automatically store any document that contians those words together :tu: Very useful spotlight

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

the mini comes with iLife as standard :)

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Wehey! Sorted.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

My copy of 10.4 arrived about half an hour ago. Now I can't wait until 17:30 so I can go and upgrade my computers. :D

http://homepage.mac.com/lwernham/.Pi.../MacZealot.png

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Cool, let me know how it goes, and what you honestly think about it (although I can probably guess).

I still don't think I am going to upgrade yet, not at 90 quid. Is the price liable to come down much?

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

well jimbo and i are off to Birmingham now to get our copies from the new apple store when it opens at 6pm :D

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Ars Technica have a review of 10.4 here.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Woah! Thats one loooooooong (but still interesting) article.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

And MB and I are now back from Birmingham with Tiger and free t-shirts! Yay us! :D

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

yay indeed :)

now installed... and all i can say is.... rarrrr tiger! :D

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

It is very impressive. Very responsive and the dashboard is wow!

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Dam TNT, Still waiting for it.

Is it faster?

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

How the hell can you compare point upgrades of OS X to XP Service Packs? I've been an XP user since it's release, and I didn't see any major changes to the OS in any of the service packs. The only things I've seen are security fixes. Upgrades to IE6? What a joke. They'll be showing it on the Antiques Roadshow soon.

OS X has Service Packs too. If you're using 10.3 you can update to 10.3.1, 10.3.2 etc. In those you get bug-fixes, security patches, minor tweaks to the OS - basically the same sort of thing you get in an XP service pack.

Take a look at the list of changes in Tiger. I didn't see those sort of changes in any of the XP service packs. I bet the last time changes like that were made was when the move from 2K to XP was made. And how much did a full retail version of XP cost on release? I bet it wasn't £89.

Put it this way - MS and Apple are as money-grabbing as each other, they just do it differently. Apple upgrade yearly (though Tiger was 18 months), MS can take years. And both price them accordingly.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Does Tiger upgrade well from Panther or is it better to do a clean install? Can anyone who has performed an upgrade offer their experiences please?

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

I had the pleasure of using Safari to browse CF yesterday and all I can say is that I want one. :(

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

It is faster after the initial searchlight scan has completed and looks fine after an install over the top of 10.3

When it first starts up it can be a bit hairy as it looks like the computer has frozen but since then it has been going strong.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Its coming! Next time you see me, I will be posting using Mac OS 10.4.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

I upgraded- it hangs on a bluescreen when trying to boot for the first time, but apart from that little scare it worked a treat :)

Haven't had a chance to play with it fully yet but i'm impressed so far! The dashboard is extremely handy, and the searchlight is great for people like me who have not given sensible names to things :D

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

OK, I am using Safari again, and I still can't see what is so damn good about it. It has like 15% of the functionality that my copy of Firefox has. I miss those extensions already... *huggles his Firefox extensions*

About Tiger, I still don't think all the new features make it worth 90 quid. Especially when you consider that Dashboard can be replaced by the much, much more functional Konfabulator, and Spotlight can be replaced with the similar Quicksilver. There are a few nice new features but I am not that deperate for it yet. the most important thing for me would be the performance increase but it doesn't appear to be all that much. Tiger seems to be full of features that you don't want, or need, but vital ones like Sidtrack style enhancements, which should be standard, are still not implemented.

There are some sealed copies of Tiger going for a bit more reasonable $50 on Ebay in the US. I'l wait until the rush has calmed down and get a copy for like under $30, I hope

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

I agree with Punky. I will be testing Tiger over the next few weeks (I have to, we'll probably be deploying new macs at work, and even if we don't, I am getting a mac mini in a few weeks), but looking at that list of new features, there doesn't appear to be much there that can't be added to Panther for a lot less than the upgrade price for tiger.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

One important bit that you can only get with Tiger is the new Darwin kernel. Read the Ars Technica link I posted earlier for details. 10.4 is running like a dream on my 6 year old PowerBook (G3/500, 384MB).

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Just to clarify is it better, same or a little worse?

edit: I feel like an optician

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Better :)

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Yep, I can says it better as well. Very quick and smooth

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

bah it won't let me disable journalling

Looks like I'll have to let the mac community work out of the tweaks again.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Apparently, you can do it through the DiskUtility (Applicatons:untilites) but on my powerbook it is greyed out...

You could try this though, in terminal... (entirely at your own risk, back up your important stuff first)

From here

I did a "man diskutil" and there is an disableJournal option. Its nothing new thought, its been there since 10.2.2?

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

thanks - it's done


PMSL at the terminal message when u put in sudo:

Now I just need to figure out why it won't let me connect to my PC via SMB
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I needed to log in as the root and run repair permissions. And this was on a erase and install installation, seems like it still need work. But its all coming together :)

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Where do you find out about qualifying for the student discount? i just wanna check the terms on it as I am working but I am also doing my law degree as well

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Have a look through http://www.apple.com/uk/education/

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Do you have a nus card?

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Thanks....looked on there but doesnt seem to give much information away at all!

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Do you have a nus card?

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

No as I am not doing it through university...its done through the Ilex Tutorial College which is a higher education place in itself as its a specialist law degree I am getting

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Nuts, Oh well. You may be able to join the NUS as your a student?

But do this: http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukInd

This should be ok. Tiger for £58
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Is it me or is tiger actually great? It creeps up on ya but the speed of safari is nice and zippy. Spotlight and dashboard are very useful, you just start using it without thinking.

AND HAVE ANY OF YOU TRIED RSS SCREEN-SAVER!!

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Thanks...I shall give it a go, all they can do is refuse right

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

If they even check....

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

lol well if i get away with it with this i shall go for it again when ordering a nice shiny g5

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

I have a NUS card, but there is no expiry date on it (just checked). I wonder if it still works...

What colour is it now? Mine is orange.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

I have a ucas card, but unfortunately you have to be 18

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Nah forget that, I used it before i was 18

If you have a nus card go to www.nusonline.co.uk register and then go to 'computers and electronics' page. This has a link to the special NUS apple store which is marginally cheaper than the traditional educational store (esp hardware)

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

OSX on x86 will never happen. Apple is a hardware company first and foremost. Release OSX for x86 and Apple go out of business.

And as for their hardware being overpriced, it depends on how you look at it. In pure bang-for-buck terms, a PC will always be cheaper. And with good reason.

It's all to do with marketshare. Apple have about 3% of the worldwide computer market, so to make a profit with such low volume sales they need to charge more. A PC is a collection of components cobbled together from many different manufacturers, all of whom can sell their components at very low prices due to the sheer number of units they sell.

A Mac is complete product, and while Apple do use other manufacturers parts in their machines, they also design and build many things themselves, such as:

Firewire (which Apple helped create), ethernet, sound, and USB chipsets
Memory and AGP controllers
Bus/switch/hub elements on the motherboard
Airport cards, maybe?
Power management chipsets
Enclosures
PCBs
Drivers
OS
Software

So comparing Macs and PC's isn't that simple. PCââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s will always get the same job done cheaper, but for some people, money isnââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t the only factor when they buy a computer.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

What about hard drives,graphics cards,memory,optical drives?????so a mac is a mix of there own hard ware and other peices cobbled together from many different manufacturers

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

None of the hardware is Apple. The chips and mobo is made by IBM. In my powerbook, my HD is made by Mat*****a and my HD is Hitachi. The graphics card is by Nvidia. I don't know about the RAM, it doesn't say. The only thing on there that is built by Apple is the case (and screen).

Semi-on: You're right that we'll never see full OSX for x86 (you can download Darwin for x86, but that doesn't include the GUI), but the fact that you say Apple would go out of business if they released OSX onto x86, shows you how much markup is in all that over-engineered casings. Look at the Ipod, despite it being about 100 quid more than the Creative Zen, (the difference is still about 60 quid now, the Creative doesn't try and rip off its customers like apple does) and that Itunes is rubbish, and it has the ridiculous DRM built in, people were still willing to pay it. They won't go bust. Maybe Jobs is worried if they do offer it for x86, so many people will buy it, that it will become a target for hackers and exploiters. People can't always afford to buy Apples on top of PCs but if they offer the OS, so people could dual boot, they marketshare would increase, and the range of software for Apples would increase too.

If you think that Mac Mini is cheap, just imagine the same components, from the manufacturer, in a regular £20 budget case... How much would it be?

Come to think of it... If I could get hold of a PowerPC chip & mobo from IBM, hopefully in ATX form factor, then I wonder if I could build an Apple myself at a bit more reasonable price? :scratch:

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

I can understand why the swear filter has blocked part of the manufacturer, but why block out the letters "su" as well?

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

now if I could get hold of that for a fair price . I would consider a bash

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

It isn't Matsu-s-h-i-ta, it is Mats-h-i-t-a. I don't know what the difference is.

I just noticed a typo though. Mat.. do my DVD drive, not my HD.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

its panasonic :)

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Not necessarily.. Mat... also manufacture under the names Technics and Tascam. Technics tends to be for higher end hifi stuff (although I have had technics CD rom drives), and Tascam specialises in broadcast audio and studio level audio equipment (they do a very nice range of combo external USB sound cards and mixer desks for instance)

@punky: Yes, I did make an error. I genuinely thought there was a "su" in there.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

You really don't understand, do you?

Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s to do with economies of scale; as production increases, the cost of producing each additional unit falls.

Their suppliers are not selling 1 million units to Apple and another 9 million to all the other companies, they have to design and produce their products exclusively for Apple (in the case of motherboards, etc.). The only things that are interchangeable are RAM, optical drives, etc. Video cards are Mac-specific, Power supplies are Mac-specific.

Then thereââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s research and design. Apple has to fund the majority of their R&D in-house. There are no "competing" brands in that if you want a Mac-compatible machine, you buy a Mac, and Apple is the only one funding the OS to run on them. They have to pay the programmers, developers, marketing staff, etc. Michael Dell has been quoted before as boasting that Dell has an extremely low R&D budget - you just take the parts, slap them together into a pretty case, and sell as many as you can. And itââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s the same if you build your own †“ you are the R&D team.

Put simply, it costs Apple more to produce a Mac than it does for Dell to build a PC or for you to build your own.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Err, could you please specify the post you are replying to, as it appears you are replying to mine, and I made no mention of Apple, R&D or anything you talk about.

BTW, I do understand Apple's prices.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Sorry bud...wasn't aimed at you. :) Just at anyone who blindly whines about Apple's high prices without actually thinking about why they are high.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

I do know the rudiments of the business world, thank you for patronising me all the same.

Apple choose to have the situation like that, because Jobs wants it that way. They are a company and want to make as much money as possible. Exploiting their customers on the hardware is the best way to make money. Need I mention Ipod batteries?

Sadly, people unable to get into Apples, mainly because of the cost issue, is why Apple only has a fraction of the software it should have.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

It wasn't my intent to patronise. It's just that you seem quick to bash Apple based on assumptions that they "rip people off". But Apple aren't coining it in as much as you think.

In the last quarter they made $260m - definitely a lot of money. But this time last year they only made $46m. No doubt that has to do with iPod sales jumping from 700k units Q2 '04 to 5.5m units this quarter.

To put it into perspective, Dell made $749m in the last quarter. Microsoft made $2.36b.

Apple are no more money-grabbing than any other company out there, and to suggest otherwise is naive at best.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Fair enough, I appologise for accusing you of doing such.

Don't get me wrong, I love my powerbook, I love Panther, but I do feel that quite a bit of Apple's ethics are wrong, and they seem to be anti-consumer. That is what gripes me most.

I am fair with Apple though. Like with everyone else, but I will compliment them when they deserve it and condemn them when they deserve it.

Going back on OT, I probably will upgrade to Tiger, eventually, but not while the price is so high. People are happy enough using Jaguar, let alone Panther.

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

Like he said though, its high because of apples unique hardware. If they were to try and make them cheaper they would have to follow dells system. The reason its more expensive is because of the high R&D and the OS. Its costs more to make a mac than a pc. They would have to slow the R&D down and the quality of hardware to make them cheaper

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

You can get it for 75 quid at Amazon ;)

Re: Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" on april 29th!
 

If you have a firewire external hard drive, bear in mind that it may not work properly with Tiger (see here for details). Apparently, the Lacie drives seem to be to worst affected.