Aussies give us our rubbish back
 

BBC
Why do I think Australia has the right idea about returning immigrants that break the law to their country of origin??

Re: Aussies give us our rubbish back
 

It is all wrong, that means he will return to England with a clean slate. I do not agree with that one at all.

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I heard on the news this morning that he will go straight on the Sex Offenders Register, but will not be on parole! And also from the same report it seemed to me (although I stand to be corrected!) that he's not out for long before he re-offends :(

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Woah, I am staying out of this topic. Could get heated

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So basically this guy is a free man to go and molest what ever kiddie he feels like lovely!!!

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According to the Guardian he will be met by Special Branch officers and placed on the register, then he will have to make his own travel and living arrangements :shrug: He may also be served with a Sex Offenders Protection Order. Linky

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To be fair he has done the time so we really cannot throw him in jail. He seems to be getting a Protection Order and will be placed on the register

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so he could still get linched on the way out of the airport then!!! HE can still go into hiding and still abuse kids without anyone knowning then?

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Well, I hope that we are beyond mob violence. :erm: In the inderpendent today they have a story about a man who got killed because people thought he has a pervert but he in fact wasnt.

I do not know what a protection order will do but i think the police do keep tabs on people like him.

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He'll be on the sex offenders list so he will be watched but without any sort of parole conditions he will be free to move around, don't know if he's wife will be happy to drag along though. I'd prefer to see all sex offenders tagged :(

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He is being treated as we would treat any child molester who has served their time.

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The police may keep an eye on him if they feel he is up to something but it is down to the offender to tell he police if he moves house. If he fails to do so then he is in trouble but he has to be found and caught first :(

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basically your all calling for the death penalty???

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Dont think anyone meant that :erm:

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He may have done the time in prison but that doesnt mean his mind will have changed. IMO, Sexual feelings are imprinted in our brains. Its not like they can be changed. So as soon as he sees some little kid, his feelings are bound to come rushing back to him and who knows what will happen.
I cant really see how his sexual outlook on life could have changed through being in jail.
I'd be very worried if he lived near me, even if he has been in jail.

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No, I agree. I have the same belif that it is a problem that is in the mind and that jail, if anything, only makes the problem worse. I have long said that once someone is convicted of such a crime they go into treatment once they have completed there treatment they go back to jail to serve out the reminder of there time (or if they are not treated by the end of there jail term they have to stay until they are).

But to topic though, he has served his time and like it or not, we cant throw him back

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I read a paper when I was at uni on this subject and you are so right their minds never alter as it is programmed from an early age as is sexual preferences, there is something in the brain such as a pleasure repceptor, which is stimulated such as when you are have sex or you are attracted to another person, it cannot be altered not even ECT would work. SO this guy will offend and offend again you can be sure of that.
And I do think the death penalty should be reintroduced, as how would you like your kiddie to be fiddled with by a strange man. I will leave you with that thought!!!!!

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Recently an innocent disabled man was given the death penalty by an angry mob who believed he was a paedophile.
Whilst the UK had the death penalty, many innocent people were killed by the justice system.
That is why the death penalty is a bad thing, you cannot guarentee it won't kill innocent people.
Similar thing with castration (which as far as I know doesn't stop someone offending)

Incidently, the majority of child abuse cases involve family members, not strangers.

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But it is the only way, I mean if you did what he had done to other kids on him, he would probally enjoy it, people like this there is no getting though to these people as they cannot see what they are doing or what they have done is wrong. You would never get that instilled into their minds. We had one a while ago on the ward and he was talking about these kids and he could not see what he had done wrong. I felt sick all the time he was going on and on in the end I had to walk or I would have killed him.

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The thing which really annoys me is how mass murderers, paedophiles, etc, (all of which have taken lives, and devastated many families lives) are getting let out of jail earlier and earlier.
Sorry to be slghtly going off topic, but a sentence served in prison is never wehat they say it is.
And life imprisonment is a complete joke. Life....more like 25 years, oops! I mean 10 as he or she was a great person in jail. Honestly !!!
Its all going wrong in this country.

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I think it is totally right that Australia has the right to kick him out. Why should they put up with it?

I do think, that providing his trial was legitmate and recognised (in Australia, of course it is, but in some other countries, you can't be so certain), then we should 'honour' those terms, i.e. in this instance keep him on parole.

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I see no evidence of thought at all - I wouldn't like my son to be fiddled with by anyone, but stringing them up is an idiotic, unthinking, primeval response that we should be beyond in this country. Try and use your brain for something more than holding up the top of your head, and *think* what the consequences would be:

1) Would you put to death parents who abuse their children (which is far more common than strangers)?
2) What about mothers who kill their children?
3) What about mothers who are wrongly convicted of killing their children?

Child abuse is wrong because it's a barbaric abuse of power. The death penalty is wrong because it's a barbaric abuse of power. I see no moral difference between a child abuser and a supporter of the death penalty.

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Is it really well they still go and do it in the middle east so go and tell them that , I am sure they will not agree with you.
What ever law the goverment brings out there is always a loop hole and a big one at that. Parents who abuse their children should be hung, who could hurt a fragile young child who has so much to learn from this world. The 3rd one Sir Roy Meadow has got a lot to answer for. I am sorry but this country is rapidly becoming a dumping ground and it needs to stop. Where we live we have just found out that there are 400 of these people living in our area. Sometimes I thing the death penalty is even to good for these people, but could you suggest a suitable punishment as prison is a holiday camp?

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Actually, I occassionally help an ex-con, who now spends his life going round schools showing kids what prison is *really* like. I've seen the inside of a prison cell. It was a small room, about 6 foot by 5 foot. The only facilities were a couple of bunk beds and a rather unhygenic looking combined wash basin and toilet.

Oh, and a previous occupant had smeared what looked like **** over the walls, and it had dried in..

I didn't see the recreation facilities, but it certainly wasn't the holiday camp portrayed by the media.

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I would, but then again my stance on common criminals, rapist, child abusers and murders is *harsh* to say the least.

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Er, I may have made this point before but, as a father of two, I am far, far more frightened of idiot (and over confident) car drivers than I am paedophiles on the basis of both experience and statistical risk. It might be easier to hate somebody for their sexual perversions, but that doesn't impact on the actual risk of my children, your childreen being affected by them.

To read the papers you would think there was a child molester on every corner. There isn't. And as a previous poster said, most child abuse happens within the home.

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Good to see that *reasoned* dabate, without insult is alive and well on the CF. :rolleyes:

So in your mind, a states right to sanction the death penalty (and for people to support its use) for the most despicable crimes/criminals is as moral as an adult to sexually abuse a child.

Sorry BBKing, but no matter how I try to get my head around your thinking on this point, I just cant do it. In a perfect society, the threat of state sanctioned death would be long assigned to history the world over. But IMHO, until we (the human race) reach some new and enlightened state, where child abuse/murder/rape no longer exist, then there will be crimes that people feel can only be rewarded with *extreme punishments*.

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I find your comment extremely insulting...........I hope it was written on the spur of the moment without much thought.....................

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Perhaps BB's point could have been better phrased but I do concur that the death penalty is an abhorrent, inhumane and primitive punishment which does the human race no credit . Neither, obviously, does child abuse.

The pros and cons of death penalty are of course a separate debate.... so shall we move on ;) Luv and peace and all that.

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Absolutely :)

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Peace people :)

Remember that person will be closely watched by the police and has to be on the register and get a protection order so cannot really do much. Other than that he has done his time so he will be entitled to a free life

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Yeah but the only have to have their backs turned just once and this is when something can happen!!!

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Shame on those who support the death penalty :td:

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In a word, Why? :confused:

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Well I am sorry you feel like that, just wait untill it happens to a member of your family and then the tables would turn. I see this happen all the time, people say they do not approve of the death penalty, but if a member of their family is affected [I.E their daughter is raper or their gran is murdered for £10] then this is when they wish was still in law. I have stuided something similar to this but it was based on an american family, they were law obiding their 3 kids never caused any trouble and would do anything to help other members of their community, then one day the eldest daughter was murdered by a known fellan and they soon changed their minds and the guy was put to death with a leathal injection. the father later said, I would have never ever wanted this to happen to anyone, but after this tradgedy has hit out family, I wanted that guy dead, because of what he did to my daughter. this is why I think the death penalty needs to be reintroduced. the way some of you go on about it, it is as if they will be sent to trial and then straight to the chair. It doesnt it takes years and years. Havent you ever heard if DNA, you can nail 99% of murders now.
I am going to study foresnics in Sept, and I have an interest in the criminal mind and various other subjects in this feild.

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OK, just to throw my hat in here... I think the death penalty is a good thing, in extreme cases. For example: Harold Shipman, Peter Sutcliffe, Myra Hindley, Ian Brady... people who, in a sensible world, would NEVER EVER get out of jail. And there are others that fit that bill.

But the original issue here was about a country repatriating a criminal to his own country. That is also something I fully agree with, and believe it should happen for ALL offences. If you break the rules of another country, you have no right to stay there.

PS In concurrence with a previous poster, my views are also probably viewed as "harsh". But then my view is that this country is rapidly going down the pan.

Re: Aussies give us our rubbish back
 

I do totally agree with you on some points: yes this country is going down the pan, and is going rapidly downward.
I have been called harsh in previous posts, but so is reality I wish people would get with the system instead of hiding behind the curtains and wishing it would all just go away, it wont.
I agree if a person has commited a crime no matter what, even if it is a petty crime they should be deported ASAP, we are not a holding centre for other countries.
many peados have said they would reoffend and they have, so when is the goverment going to learn?
Like those 2 poor girls like Huntley murdered, why??? it is just a waste of life, you will never ever know the truth.

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Just my own harsh thoughts now.........
Anybody who abuses a child should be jailed for life and in my opinion, thats an easy sentence!.
I, personally have had enough of the "Bleeding Hearts Brigade" in this once great country of ours where the wrongdoers have all the rights and get all the support and the normal, hardworking people with families get absoloutely **** all from the government and the courts. The judicial system in this country is a total joke and i speak from personal expeirience.
Why should we give any recourse to the paeodophiles,murderers and rapists who seem to be so prolific in our country today?
Everybody seems so concerned with the rights of people who commit serious offences nowadays, what about the rights of the innocent children who are abused and killed and the innocent rape victims?
My wife works with elderly people with mental health problems, ie dementia etc and some of these people have abused their own children yet they have more rights than the rest of us.!
I`m so ****ed off with this country and it`s system!
Why can`t we return to a system where it`s an eye for an eye and life sentances which mean life?
It`s no good releasing people who have killed in the past saying that they are fit to be rehabilitated into society only to have them kill again.
Come on, What would you people here, do and say if a member of your family or your child was affected by one of the types of criminals? would you still bang on about their " Rights" etc?
I`d burn the ****ing lot of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They wouldn`t reoffend then!

Re: Aussies give us our rubbish back
 

Oh dear.

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I take it you disagree then andyl? Maybe you should take this opportunity to give your views on the thoughts of budweiser.

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to be fair to andyl this same issue has come up before and we seem to go round in circles!

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Seems to be for a death penalty thread topic being pursued here whereas this thread.......

Besides I'm sure you don't really think I need to explain my views, not least because I have already stated them.

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"Bleeding Hearts" etc etc!:erm:

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That's me cut to the quick then.

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Not at all Andy, We all have our own views.

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What does bleeding hearts mean?Its a stupid phrase.

This is what a posted a couple of months back, this is why i dont like the death penality:

I am against capital punishement.

In the states capital punishment has been shown to be a weak deterrent. The risk of death has no effect on the person who is about to commit the crime. Here is some evidence of that:



Moving on....The sort of mind-set you would need to be in, to commit the serious and appalling crimes that capital punishment could be used for, would mean they are not going to think of their punishment logically. These are crimes were the person is either mentally unbalanced, emotional, or desperate. Even if they were perfectly sane then they would think they could get away with it anyway. So capital punishment is not effective in reducing crime.

As for prisons being too full then capital punishment is not effective. Very few people are in prison for this type of crime. Serial killers and the worst murders do not make up a large number of the prison population. Most of it is made up of other crimes such as robbery, assault, and crimes linked to drugs etc. So the death penalty will not reduce overcrowding (even if it did, killing people to make space is a stupid idea anyway!!)

Thatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s before we even get into the difficulties involved with deciding what should be considered a death penalty. Murder? Well murder isnââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t always clear cut, its not a case of someone kills someone in cold blood and thatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s that! There was one case where a man had come home to his wife and she told him she was cheating on him. She then continued to boost about this and tell him that she never loved him, and that he was a joke. She continues bragging, insulting him and saying it had gone on since before they were married. He lashed out and the resultant blow was enough to kill her. He didnââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t get manslaughter and got charged with murder instead. Should that be enough?

What about someone whose need for drugs has over-powered any sort of logical thinking and he steals to get money for drugs? The victim attempts to stop him and he attacks the victim. Leading to that personââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s death? Should that be enough?

Hit and run? Murder out of anger, emotion or desperation? Quite young? Mentally unbalanced? Where do you draw the line?

Capital punishment does not act as a way to reduce crime, reduce prison levels, or keep the public safer. There will always be a case of one or two wrong convictions so it doesnââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t do much for justice either.

Is this nothing more than satisfying the human urge for revenge? And if it is, isnââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t that an awful way to deal with justice? Justice should always been fair and balanced and never should the emotion of a case get in the way

Finally it is far better to let that person sit in a cell for the rest of his life and live with his own conscience than to put him out of his misery quickly

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:mad:

Seems to me the death penalty is tood good for this little ****.

Arrested 4 times since 1965 and then paroled 3 times and re offended on every occasion and raped a 9 year old boy ffs.

In 2002 they recommended he should be imprisoned indefintely and then the parole board backed down in 2002 and planned his release now due to ill health and age.

I hope he has a painful and terminal ill health.

Australia refuse to have him on their doorstep to reoffend but because he has lived there since the age of 10 and never taken citizenship so yet again it looks as if we will end up being the refuse dump for a scrote like him.

Stick him in cold dark cell and throw away the key and never let him see the light of day again.

Failing that one for PC and doo gooders - stick him on a desert Island with families of children who have been abused and see how long he lasts.

He is nothing more than a sick and still dangerous pervert yet no doubt instead of jailing him for the rest of his days we will end up with our hands in our pockets shelling out to house him, give him anonymity etc etc.

Jailed 4 times paroled 3 times and reoffended 3 times which proves this animal cannot live in the community.

Its about time this goverment reached into their pockets and felt those lumps yes they are called balls and started to use them and actually have the balls on backbone to stand up for themselves.

:mad: Rant mode off.

I will calm down, I will calm down, I will calm down.

:angel:

Re: Aussies give us our rubbish back
 

Errm, as stated earlier, Australia is perfectly within it's rights to extradite this guy back here. He IS a UK citizen.

Several people appear to be criticising Australia for doing that (including some people who are all for us extraditing criminals that don't have UK citizenship).


As for the death penalty. I'll admit, if a person abused a child of mine, I probably would want to kill the ******* as slowly and painfully as possible, but, the death penalty itself clearly does not work (look at the US for evidence of that)

We need to find a way to stop these people abusing in the first place, not to kill them after they have done it. Killing the abuser will not correct the damage done to the abusee. Preventing them being abused would ensure the damage was never done though.

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Yes but it does work in Arab states and it is an effective crime fighting tool. The US are just gun toting manics with nothing else better to do. I remember when Paul had to go over there, he said there was gun shop on every corner, but what do we have peados!! I do not know which is worse!!!

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Well it looks like they are keeping him a little while longer

Just proves he is a danger and he just canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t help himself. Till the day he dies he will see nothing wrong with his sexual behaviour. This man is just evil.

So lets hope he is kept in prison and away from young men.

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They have as big a peado problem over there. We just don't hear about it.

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I have a nice pipe cutter that would sort the problem, but that would go against his human rights. :mad:

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I mean to solve the problem BEFORE IT OCCURS. I am not advocating protecting Peado's rights, but I don't think smacking seven bells out of somebody solves the problem. It may satisfy an urge for revenge, but that is it.

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I would not advocate hitting them with my pipe cutter, far from it. Smacking seven bells out of somebody is reserved for people that break into my house. For serial paedophiles the snip is the only answer, if they donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t have the tackle.

But living in the real world I know this is not the answer, but it would be nice if the problem could be sorted before it happens.

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Exactly, we can complain about it all we like but as I put in my thread title we are getting our rubbish back. He is a UK citizen unfortunately and since he never took Australian citizenship we have no choice but to allow him back into the country.
Again a good point, we would do exactly the same in their case.. well we would if the EU or the Court of Human Rights would allow us to. Some people seem to forget just how this country got rid of it's criminals a long time ago ;) Didn't we send them somewhere?? :dozey:
The death penalty may look like the ultimate deterrent to some but as the stats show, it doesn't always work. This has a lot to do with criminals still believing that they can escape detection and therefor they won't have to face the penalty for their crimes. If the detection rate for all crimes were around the 90% mark a lot less people would risk commiting a crime in the first place.
Prevention is the best cure as they say but how would you prevent someone from becoming a paedophile or a rapist? We are a long way from that moment in time I fear :(

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So why the hell would we would want, if he has done that while he is inside!!! See I told you once a peado always a peado. And I still stick by the death penalty and I would bloody murder an intruder if I caught them in my house!!!

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You seem to be missing the point, we don't want him but he's being deported from Australia and since he's still a British citizen he gets sent back to us. Return to sender if you like. I can't see many people (including the paedophile involved) being overly happy about this but there isn't a lot we can do about it.

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He is not coming back now.
More charges have been made in Austrialia.

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Agreed on both these points. This country would accept people, regardless of their backgrounds; if they commit crimes, there is no chance of them being deported, before or after punishment.

Nothing will ALWAYS work, but for a persistent offender such as this guy the death penalty would ensure he could never harm anyone again. By the sound of it he isn't even safe in prison. But I agree that a lot of criminals know that either detection is ridiculously poor, or "punishment" is so pathetic, that crime really isn't something to shy away from.

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Every time this evil piece of sh*t has been released he has re-offended. I say they should shoot him :mad:

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What have I told you, once a peado always a peado!!!

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Thats impossible :dozey:

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I have to stop this. The abbreviation is paedo, as in paedophile and (don't tell News of the World readers there's a difference), paediatrician.

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It can mean either and I dont read the news of the world, I read the indpendent!

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Hang on, a paedophile and a paediatrician are the same thing? Or your worldly experience in the NHS means you know paedophile paediatricians?

You read the Independent, I'm the local BNP organiser ;)

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Ooops! :shocked: :Sprint:

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:angel: Sorry but that can be dismissed here as that only relates to stats for capital punishment and that is not the punishment for the crime being discussed here.

:tu:

Agreed but I quite like the pipe cutting idea.

:tu:

Good.

:tu: or think of a more slow painful death method.

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I would :tu:

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OK, this has changed slightly from the original thread topic of repatriation of criminals.

So, for the record, let me make a supposition: today's "average" criminal knows he has little chance of being caught, little chance of being severely punished, little chance of having to fully complete his "punishment, and a small chance of claiming some form of compensation or breach of his human rights. Little incentive then to not be a criminal.

Do you think he might have the same approach if there were a) more police b) stronger punishment c) no early release d) removal of a criminal's rights to compensation, or reduced "rights"?

It's called deterrent. Call it a cost/benefit exercise if you like. But the way to stop ANY criminal is not to hope that they suddenly turn into "nice" people, it is to show them that if they offend, they will SUFFER. That could be anything from loss of liberty, to loss of life.

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An increase in the percieved chance of being caught works as the best detterrant.
Most people break the laws because they think they will get away with it.
Next as a detterant comes sentancing, if they're given a slap on the wrist then they're more likely to think "hey if I get caught then it's not like anything is actually going to happen to me"
Then punishment, if they get put in prison, it should be set up to be a detterent for further offending, not just somewhere to house criminals.

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My point is in cases like this, surely it's better to prevent people from offending in the first place? Whatever is done to the paedophile after the event will not help the damage done to the victims.

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Ah, but then you can't satisfy vengeful blood lust!

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I know what you meant but it's impossible to catch someone before they commit such an offence............

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Whilst you cannot prevent an offence after it happens, you could do more to prevent re-offending. Let's be blunt here: if this man had been put to death, he wouldn't have re-offended many times over. Harsh but true.

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Maybe, with research, we will find a way to prevent Paedo's re-offending. Possibly some medical treatment, or counselling. I don't know.

Maybe we will find a deterrant. Clearly prison isn't that deterrent. Maybe it's because people don't believe they will get caught.

I think Diamond's point about the Death penalty not working is valid, as, although the death penalty is not currently used for Paedophiles (unless they murder a child), his point is that the US still has a high murder rate, despite having a death penalty in many states. The death penalty doesn't appear to work for preventing murders, and I don't think it would work for child abuse either.

As I stated earlier, I am not actually advocating Paedophile rights, just trying to come with a constructive way to stop them.

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Can't argue with the logic. But if we're going down that road you can cut crime rates dramatically by making previously illegal acts legal. Simple and most effective crime statistic reduction measure. ;) Neither argument works though does it?!

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I think in this case, and in relation to this area of crime, the death penalty is much more preferable to legalising paedophile acts.

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I hope you are aware that that was not what I was suggesting.

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Of course, and my reply was not meant to suggest that. I am trying to point out that punishments must fit crimes, and at present the justice system offers punishments that are far too lenient. Capital punishment is the most extreme punishment, but paedophile acts are possibly the most extreme crime.

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Generalise much? :rolleyes:

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Yes :D

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Yes you can, Its called Revenge.
An Eye for an Eye.
Doesn`t solve the problem but it makes amends slightly!.

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I dearly loved my first missus and I was gutted when she left me. She left me because her mind had been so screwed up by a molester as a kid that she could never have a normal relationship.

As someone who has seen what a child molester can do to a childs mind I have to say that if, God forbid, anyone were to touch my kids I would be the angel of death. I would rather sit in prison myself than know that **** like this will one day be free to reoffend. And no I am not advocating a lynch mob mentality - but justice today fails the victim all too often.

None of this gutless PC / liberal BS for me!

Re: Aussies give us our rubbish back
 

So how do we stop paedophiles from offending in the frist place? Give every teenager a psych test, and anyone who tests as sexually deviant be put in a program, which the tax-payer foots the bill for, for the rest of the deviants life? How about a one year scheme, where paedophiles can come forward, surrender themselves to the authorities, and be given treatment to stop their deviant lifestyle?

Somehow I dont think someone who gets their rocks of mollesting children will agree to stop, unless they are forced to. Paedophiles either know what they are doing is wrong, but do it anyway. Or they have a head full of bad wiring, and are an abhoration to be removed from decient society.

The vast majority of people in any social group, will be willing to live within the rules and social morays (sp?) that allows large groups of individuals to function in a productive manner. Those individuals who refuse to follow a socially moral, and lawfull lifestyle need to be removed from society like the cancer they are. Wether this means ''stringing them up, nailing them up, or removing the means to fulfill their compulsion, or giving them life with hard labour'' then that is what is needed IMO.

In any society *The Many must come before The Few*. Without this, society falls apart into chaos. Sorta like whats happening today.

Re: Aussies give us our rubbish back
 

All true. Nothing in there that the "many" would disagree with, myself included. But you are forgetting that as soon as you start making comments like that, some do-gooder comes along and starts bleating on about "human rights". In my opinion, paedophiles are sub-human, so bo*****s to their "rights".

Re: Aussies give us our rubbish back
 

Okay I will then, when we lived in the states, Corpus Christi, Texas. Virtually every person I worked with at the medical center and when Paul worked on an exchange visit with the sister company he works for had a gun, and they wernt afraid to show them, infact they seem quite proud of their weapondry why??? Everytime I asked a person this, was the same answer you have to protect yourself in this country it is like dog eat dog and you have to give yourself every chance or you do not have a chance at all!!!! It is the same in New York and Florida. So that is why they like like gun toting manics, 50% of injuries I helped with were gun injuries, they suffer from the wild west syndrome. And I am not going into that as it takes to long to explain. Untill you have lived in that country you will never know what I mean!

Re: Aussies give us our rubbish back
 

Hold on, let me get this right. You're judging the whole of the US on the basis of Texans?!?! :rofl:

Re: Aussies give us our rubbish back
 

Texas and New York and Florida............