Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4353423.stm

When will those idiots learn...

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

Unbelievable.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

First of all let me say I don't support off-shoreing work that UK employee's currently have just to save money, even if it is:

My point is..what technically does off-shoring mean!... My understanding of people's hatred of the practice comes from UK companies cutting jobs and moving the work to ASIA.

But how can the same term be applied to a non-UK company, such as HSBC...which is a Hong Kong Bank, arn't they just pulling out of the UK, to some degree?

Please enlighten me on the subtle differences in UK/International companies and off-shoreing?

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

My gripe is I am British and I want easy access to my money and I expect the service involved to be of the standard to which I'm accustomed in the UK.

I have yet to recieve this from any company with Indian callcentres. I even closed my acccount with HSBC and moved to Nationwide purely because my new bank only used UK callcentres. If this changes I'll just move on to another bank, possibly the Co-operative.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

Here here!!! :tu:

NatWest are another bank who dont have overseas call centres.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

Was thinking of a current account from them, time to tell the gf to try Natwest then.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

So the gripe is where the customers are, not the fact that UK jobs are being lost?

I used to outsource a lot of Web development work to India-based tech company's. Their work was of reasonable quality and cheap. BUT, I agree there was a huge language [and time barrier] when dealing with them. Conversations on the phone were a nightmare since neither I or them could understand each other. Emails were hilarious bytes of laughter, due to their poor english. Although, this is different to call centers as these tech people are not trained call centre staff.

I agree with not wanting to speak to non-locals...I had to phone up Sky the other month and got through to some India-based c/c. The lady was really funny...really polite, to a point!... I must have said a few times to her to calm down!!! She started to raise her voice at me...although I was 'testing' her a bit! :erm: ;)

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

That would come a close second. Regardless of where the company are from, a UK job is a UK job.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

I think that when they took over the Midland, HSBC re-incorporated the whole company and based it in England.

The world headquarters is just over the other side of the Thames from where I am sitting now (and is in the Canary Wharf complex).

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

I stand corrected! :D

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

HSBC is a UK listed plc, so technically a British company in the same way Glaxo or Shell is a British company.

From a corporate point of view they need to comply with tax and legal requirements of each country they operate in, but ultimately these entities roll up to a UK company and the global profits are subject to UK corporation tax. As an aside, many global companies have multiple listings. HSBC shares are traded in London (primary) and also NY, Paris and HK.

Ofshoring to me means servicing a customer or need from outside the country of the customer (or primary customer base). It can of course have it's advantages if done well, take the US Airlines for example, most have call centres in the middle of the US, Dublin and an Asian location, this means you can have 24 hr call servicing and people working during their normal daylight hours, such ofshoring is good - well better than creating an army of nightworkers IMHO. It's less good when you move (sorry recruit) a whole army of CSRs to another continent.

IMHO in time the tide will turn, there are a lot of talented english speaking people in India, but as more firms set up these centres the laws of supply and demand will push the cost of this labour up changing the economics of the ofshoring process.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

I agree with that and found the case very true. First time I got into outsourcing work India..the Indian company approached me [my company]. They offered to take on some work for free to build up their portfoolio, a common and obvious tactic for new startups, this would have been about 5 years ago or so. For each new project we sought new Indian companies expertise, for financial and for comparative reasons. Eventually when we asked a company to do a piece of work, after having a few months worth of cheap costs...they ramped them up to near UK prices!!! :erm:

In the end, it was decided to keep the development in-house and get freelancers in the UK to top up the projects! In the end, it just wasn't worth the hassle of dealing with the language, culture and time barriers that Asia/Pacific companies come with.

Infact, their quality of work degraded due to less staff being available...them spreading themselves thin... but the costs went up and duration too! ...I bet the 'shop floor workers' didn't get a pay increase tho! :rolleyes:

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

I hope none of those who are up in arms about this have foreign cars, electronics, groceries etc. It's hypocritical to complain about companies outsourcing when we take advantage of the global economy elsewhere. If outsourcing diminishes service, then that's a different matter but I've not yet had a bad experience with an Indian call centre whereas I could cite, for example, NTL CS or indeed Symantec. I recently had useless (and surly) assistance from Symantec' London call centre, went on the online chat support, didn't get much joy so pleaded with them to call. A bloke did, from India, even though, as he explained, they weren't supposed to. He was the most helpful guy on the planet and talked me down step-by-step in English which would shame many a UK call centre operator (and he'd never even been to Europe or the States).

I'd rather we didn't have globalisation which treats labour as just another commodity, or indeed a UK economy which is now so dependent on the service sector because we decimated our manufacturing industries. But we do, and we're all going to have to learn to live with it. I should add that I certainly do sympathise with those working in UK call centres who face losing their jobs, but it's an inevitable consequence (unless we start putting import tariffs on services which will no doubt mean retaliatory tariffs against us)

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

I'm not hypocritical - I'm against outsourcing because of the degredation in customer service.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

So, we're all going to have to live with it even when there are NO jobs left in the UK? What do we do then?

I take it YOUR job isn't under threat? What will you do when it is? Get another one? And what about when there aren't any more to get?

And who is going to buy these companies' products in the UK if no one in the UK has a job any more?

UK companies serving UK customers should have those jobs in the UK.

And it isn't just call centre jobs, we even have companies getting letters typed up in India, plus off course the offshoring of loads of IT development.

UK jobs should be in the UK. Period. If it means taxing the firms to the hilt if they offshore, then fine.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

I know :). If service levels go down as a direct result of outsourcing then that is a different matter (as I said).
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Whoa there! I'm not saying I agree with outsourcing, just saying that's the way the economy now works and pointing out the way we all take the positives we want from it - cheap electronics from China etc - but don't recognise the negatives, which is jobs being lost. We seem to want it both ways though.

Don't forget too all the manufacturing and mining jobs already lost which means we are now more dependent than ever on other countries' goods and resources.

BTW I work for myself so my job's probably under more threat from spending too much time here ;)

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

It's the old story. In this country we want things cheap cheap cheap all the time. We're our own worst enemy.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

Which means the service levels put in place are inadequate, but as I have had poor CS from UK call centres too whats the difference.

I'd like to say no, but if you look back 10 years the tech infrastructure meant you could not offshore call centres. As an accountant I realise there are many talanted accountants in asia and india who can do many of the accounting roles in a business just as well as I could over here, after all they are analysing, reconciling posting numbers in a computer system, why does that have to be done in the UK?

And using tax as a threat, watch these corporates up sticks and move thier head offices to India too and pay their corporation tax to the Indian government not the UK govt. That would leave a huge hole in Mr Browns balanced budget. Quite simply - ain't gonna happen.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

There's a difference in culture - if I call to make a complaint I want to know that the person on the other end of the phone empathises with my use of emphasis on particular words. Language and culture barriers prevent this.

I don't want to have to repeat myself over and over again because they don't understand my Welsh accent. That has NEVER happened to me from a UK callcentre.

I don't want to keep asking them to repeat what they say because I can't understand their accents.

I don't want to me met with "certainly please" each time I ask them to do something. I live in the UK and I demand that any company offering me a service here should speak our English.

This isn't just aimed at Indian callcentres - the ones who use americanisms annoy me just as much.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

Yeah I know, that Swansea call centre is a bugger isn't it!! ;)

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

I've never had that kind of problem with a Swansea or any other UK callcentre (with the possible exception of the ones in Glasgow).

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

Are they planning to move their customers there as well? :dozey:

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

What I think is dangerous here is that these companies seem perfectly happy to encourage the idea that Indian callcentres are almost 'normal' or 'customery', in the way they've all embraced automated telephone systems.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

well it is the Hong Kong, Shanghai Banking corporation.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

As discussed in post 11.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

Funny how its (generally) always the customer service side thats moved ofshore with all the issues of misunderstandings etc which have been mentioned.
But dial the sales number and you get through (usually) to an english based service.

So they don't mind giving exsisting punters the run around in an offshore CS operation, but aren't prepared to expose potential 'brand new customers' to that level of service#

Wonder why that might be ....

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

That is quite an interesting point. Mind you dial the sales number and you get answered straight away, dial the CS number, wherever the call centre is, and you get 20 minutes of Greensleeves and an irritating automated woman trying to ingratiate herself by pointing out how important your call is (though obviously not as important as that of a potential customer). If it was that sodding important to them they'd have answered it by now! Have I taken this way off topic ;) Sorry!

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

Generally sales is only open during British daylight hours, therefore they don't require expensive shift workers, so better value for money to employ British staff.
CS on the other hand generally is open for longer, and with banking, alot offer 24hr CS, as such it's cheaper to base your CS centers where the "best value for money" can be acheived. Remember though, best value for money is from the company's point of view, not necessarily the same as the customer's!

Thankfully I find HSBC's services so good I rarely have to call them. The last time was to tell them of my new address, and it went a bit like this:

me: Leighton Buzzard
CS: Leighton Buzzard
me: Bedfordshire
CS: Bedfordshire, London
me: No, not London, it's no where near london
CS: So that's Leighton Buzzard, London, Bedfordshire?
me: No, just Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire
CS: So that's Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire?
me: yes
CS: London?
me: no, no london, nothing to do with London!

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

The best customer service I've ever received has been from OneForAll (universal remote controls). A Dutch company with customer services based in Holland -the operators speak better English than you almost ever hear from English centres. Not exactly a low wage economy but for the sake of good service couldn't we move our call centres over there? :D

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

I don't mean to pick holes here, as I do largely agree with your sentiments...but....

What other reason is there to avoid HSBC? This is one of the few criticisms I've heard about them.

In my experience HSBC offers amongst the best of all the banks when it comes to customer service. I will say it has on a couple of occasions recently slipped a little, but these were UK staff I was dealing with.

Conversely Natwest offers (IMHO) amongst the worst levels of service from all of the banks.

The jobs being outsourced at HSBC are clerical (one assumes data entry) roles. Outsourcing these should not affect customer service.

I should also point out that the statement from HSBC was more generic, not referring to a specific round of cuts or even job losses in the UK. We have no idea whether the outsourced roles will create better opportunities for its UK staff, the cuts will come from natural wasteage or if they will require redundancies.

What? Period? What about manufacturing? I bought a laptop bag today, quality item, UK company, made in China. Do you honestly think I would have only paid a tenner for it if it had been made in the UK?

Which is the point when large companies decide to up-sticks, leave the country and either import to the UK or not bother with us at all.

But it happens the other way around for me (with my BBC Home Counties accent). I often have to ask customer service people with such stereotypically heavy Welsh or Glaswegian accents to repeat themselves becuase I can't understand what they are saying


So would it be OK if an British-Asian said 'certainly please' whilst being based in a UK office?


Whilst I don't like to see any job leave this country unecessarily, sometimes it is needed. It is worth bearing in mind that 90% of customer contact was done face to face 15 years ago, so these roles are not generally long established.

And whilst companies like Natwest spout on about UK call centres, they sub-contract data handling to companies that are not based in the UK, so it's somewhat hypocritical.

And the solution? Well there isn't one really. Corporate greed (and lord knows HSBC makes enough money) will always come first. Performance on the markets is more important than performance to customers, but there has to be a balance to make sure you have enough customers to keep the profits coming in - this is something that HSBC are very good at.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

Except ntl of course who offshored the Freedom sales line....:rolleyes:
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So we either have no companies based here, therefore no jobs, or we have companies based here but not employing any staff here, therefore no jobs.

Unfortunately neither model is sustainable and something will have to give at some point.

An economy will not survive if all its inhabitants are on the dole.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

Well the illegals will go to France....

But realistically banks need to maintain a branch network and other functions on shore so the 0 staff scenario is not realistic. Also looking at oter posts in this thread about ofshoring IT, the cost benefit has already swung back to UK onshoring, this will happen with the current ofshoring trend.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

Try speaking to their offshore "help" line when problems arise when Importing. To quote Little Brittain " the computer says no!!"
Get the HSBC account manager in and he is useless as well.

Get another Bank
:td:

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

this is a touchy subject and could bring a few angry words out but i aggree when i call somone i like to speak to a english person.
i work in a very large call centre ADT in manchester and the racist thing has gone a bit to far, we have a few new workers who cant really speak very good english and have had lots and lots of complaints from customers saying they dont understand a word they have said.
but the company wont do a thing about it incase of racial backlash.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

It's not a race issue, it's a language/accent issue. They should plough some of the cash they save into improved English coaching and clearer speaking, oh and better quality equipment too. I've been on the end of support (not NTL or HSBC) where they appeared to speak fairly good english but seemed to be mumbling and had to ask them to repeat themselves often enough for me to hang up in frustration.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

Politcal Correctness has gone too far, even if it should exist in the first place.

There is a nasty self censorship that stops people from speaking out about various problems or injustices, and this stifles proper debate and instead creates frustration and resentment.

Clear the air. stop being PC.:p:

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

On the other hand, many people who are vehemently zenophobic are using this as an issue to peddle their beliefs.

Re: Another reason to avoid HSBC
 

Taking a look at the bigger picture for a moment (i.e. customer service), the trend is towards the customer serving themselves - you see it everywhere. Very soon you will be able to make an appointment with your GP online, and order repeat prescriptions. The human is being removed from the equation and replaced with a machine, and for me, it's a good thing. The best customer service I can recall was when I ordered an extra telephone service (call redirect). I did it all online. Received a confirmation letter. Easy. No "Press 1 for..." and nobody to talk to who can't understand or help me. I never phone my bank - I either use the ATM or e-banking. Very, very occasionally I will go to the counter if I need cash in my account ASAP to cover a transaction. So I think the days of the call centre are numbered anyway.

As for jobs - it's no longer a job market where you can be with a company for life. You won't be rewarded for loyalty. Think "commodity" - that's what you are. Sell yourself - know your worth. Forget job security.