The Budget
 

So, what are our predictions for the Chancellor's pre-election bribes today?

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Free smarties for all over 85's

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Toyboys on prescription for single girls in their 30's ;)

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fags up by 15p

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About £2 billion of bribes for middle class voters.

Followed by £3 billion of stealth clawbacks next year after the election.

Not cynical ;)

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4346849.stm

:)

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Am I right in believing that at the moment with dormant accounts, the banks claim the money as part of their profits, but should the customer claim the money, it will be available.
If the treasury grabs this money, how will the customer/saver get it back?

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No - it's £2 billion of promised bribes, followed by £3 billion of actual stealth taxes, and then they'll tell us how we're only worse off by the difference between the two.
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I don't know how the banks cook their books, but this is just plain daylight robbery. How GB can justify clearing out bank accounts just cos people don't touch them for a while is beyond me.

Just shows the money-grabbing thinking at no. 11

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in the same way as when the life companies were given permission to pay their orphan with profit funds out to shareholders, then the stock market collapsed and the cussion fund had vanished to the policy holder suffered (and still is sufferering as life companies had to sell out of shares at a rock bottom price in order to prove to the FSA that they are solvent)

So if the customer claims the money in a dormant bank account otherr customers suffer in terms of reduced interest rates. The shareholder WILL NOT suffer

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Just imagine, a granny puts away £500 for her grandson planning to give it to him when he's 18.
She doesn't understand things like ISA's and other accounts set up for long term savings.
18 years later, she goes to take the money out and gets told "sorry dear, the treasury thought you didn't want your money any more so took it 15 years ago"

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Giving pre-election bribes with one hand and taking it back with the other? You know, the usual ;)

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Alienware computers to be sent to everyone for nothing, and broadband being forced to give out at 34gb bandwith to everyone for 10per month, also making all internet broadband caps illegal, and to provide me with Jessica Alba one weekend per month.

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Sorry, I've already been promised that one, along with Kate Moss

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I'm praying for an increase in stamp duty thresholds... What with looking to move later this year an all.

But willing to bet that it's not going to actually raise to £150,00 0 as mooted in some places :(
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Oh and if Im really going to be cynical...

Whatever the budget, I'll be in the single demographic group that worse off rather than better off after he changes.

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They're never going to change stamp duty, nor inheritence tax, both of which now must be great little earners - considering in a lot of areas you'll be lucky to get a 3 bed house for less than 250,000 - that's a lot of money going to the government

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Changes into what? A werewolf :Yikes: :p:

The worst-off demographic? Are you a drinking, smoking, car-driving home-owner with no kids, who may want to move house at some point?

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In South Wales you'd get a HUGE house for that....

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Yeah, but who'd want to live in Wales?? :D (joke!).

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My point is the £60,000 starting point for stamp duty doesn't bother most first-time buyers down here. My first house was a brand new comfortable 2 bedroom place and it was £54,000 .

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Thing is, more and more houses all over the place are creeping up to that level, certainly in London and the surrounding areas - and it's just daft that people are being hit with inheritance tax, for nothing more than being left the family 3 bed semi

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My further point is people do actually live further afield than London....!

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Nah, that's just some rumour.... :)

I do appreciate what you are saying, but you are finding that these price increases are spreading out from london, and over time, they will reach other parts of the country as well

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Okay I shall take her during the week then including nights.. Jessica Alba in mine :D:D:D:D:D

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I just hope that if he changes the stamp duty tax level he backdates it to before last December :D

I just paid £700 tax, for an ex council house. what's that all about!

Whatever he says, take it all with a pinch of salt.
Even if Pensioners get more, they will have to pay more somewhere else

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Yip but all goverments are same promise you the world then take it back elsewhere, so I say keep Labour in because we are getting used to his lies.

As for tories being in power I would rather rub my balls with glass sandpaper pour petrol all overmyself and ignite it before voting them in.

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Actually anything he changes into is bound to be an improvement (unless he changes into Tony Blair :Yikes: :Yikes: :Yikes: )

Actually if you drop the smoking and add drug crazed transvestite then yep :D :D :D
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But did you see the thing on the BBC site about what 60K would get you around the country...

Edit: found it !

houses for 60k around the uk

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Here's the link

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Drug crazed transvestite eh? Well, as long as they don't de-criminalise the drugs, you should be alright ;) . Not too sure about the dressing up in womens clothes, but I'd guess that's covered by VAT :D :p:

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Well that's the usual BS out of the way, just got to wait to see how much more badly off we're going to be (apart from those people who don't bother working as churning out kids pays well these days ;) Another thread all together lol0
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Well that's stamp duty raised then ;)
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Mind you I hope the Beeb is wrong about this
;)

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Unfourtunatly, a 3 bed a round here starts around 135,000 and thats for ex-council hosue in serious need of work...

Would have helped me 18 months ago when I bought my current place though...

Whats the betting the in the next year the put it up above 150,000 just after I move? :cry:

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That may buy em a few pairs of combats!!!

:p:

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Yes, but £120,00 0 will not even buy you a 1 bed flat around here :(

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They're just going to buy a very big stick...

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you're talking in the region of £140k for a starter home round here and that's not in a particularly nice area. the best you can hope for on that £120k limit is a flat.

I would abolish stamp duty and abolish inheritance tax - vote for me!

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Chav Budget News....
Duty frozen on Cider.
The 7p increase in fags duty will not affect the average chav due to the availability of duty frees from Shazzer down the street.

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Duty frozen on cider...

That will keep the bus station winos happy!

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Free bus travel? Well let's face it, with petrol prices sneaking up and down pensioners can only just afford to run their cars :erm:
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With this and the cider and fag tax situation he's really turning in the Chav Chancellor

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I dunno, does white lightning qualify as Cider ???

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Anyone bored enough to read through the whole budget?

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An overview:

http://bbc.co.uk/budget

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Yeah, people might recognise some of these keypoints ;)
Oh and they added the M onto the Defence budget increase :p:

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I predict a long boring speech :zzz: - which I will miss as I'm off to watch "Son of the Mask" instead. :)

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Probably in an unrefined way I guess...

;)

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We'll record it for you or twist the news broadcasters arm so they re-show it every hour for the next 2-3 days ;)

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Cool, I fancy learning to fly :D :D

Nice, only it's followed by:
:D

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Just looked through the budget.pdf (well I told the PC to search it ;) ) and it seems it's only local off-peak bus travel. Nothing like restricting the pensioners to only traveling certain times of the day is there :erm:

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You usually make a prediction before the event, not after. :D :D :D The speech was over before you posted which is why I missed it as I was expecting it later in the afternoon. That will teach me to use DigiGuide rather then rely on historical memory. ;)

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Well you would have thought that some of the posts on this thread would have given the game away ;)

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It would have if I had read them long before I posted. :D :D

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What :Yikes: You posted before reading the thread :eeek: What is this forum coming to? :p: ;)

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local off-peak bus travel ???? whats that ?

Don't think I've seen any of that around here! (Start's at 9:30 and finish at 16:00 - so no good for the wife getting into work :-( )

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But 9.30am to 4pm is off-peak? :confused:

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:blush: Ah the problem is I work in telecoms, off peak = after 6 pm...

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If not later lol ;) Don't think the government realises that quite a few pensioners in this country cannot afford to stop working because their pensions don't count for anything :(

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The question is, is it a good budget or not ?

IMO no not really, My family will benefit very little from anything mentioned so far, Child benefit increase will just come of my other benefit.
Car tax and fuel no change so no change except fuel is currently higher than a while ago.
Stamp duty threshold doubled, imo the amount increased by is absolutely useless really outside of scotland and wales.
Inheritence tax threshold up by an ammount not really worth mentioning

Pensions up some and about time too but of no use to me atm

Beer and wine increases will not really affect me much we dont drink a lot. Fags increase is bound to affect me somewhat.

About the best thing in the whole of this budget is, if its still there when my up n coming *chavs* reach that age they could in reality now consider staying on that extra year or two.

PS. the term *chav* is really not nice why do you all use it? and Im gonna hazard a guess its a Mancunian or similar northwards of me in the midlands expression ?

So am I happy with the budget? Nope not really
Was it an election bribing budget? imo nope but the majority will probably be fooled to think its really good

And finally could the tory's have done better ?

Take Mr Howard at his own words, Its "a pay later budget" indicating the tory's would certainly have made many more increases than Labour did.

Enjoy your new found wealth people :D

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The official budget sheet just says "typical strength".

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Well they have certainly attempted to buy the pensioner's vote. Had no idea a vote was worth £200.00 . Am i correct this is a one off payment only in this Election year :D

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Not sure I think what theyve indicated is prospective council tax increases and re-evaluations will counter the £200 discount in future years

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I agree, I doubt it will affect me at all. It really is a "boring" budget but then it could all be changing in 50 days time, in any case! ;)

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What I want to know is where is this "continuing economic growth" that Gordon keeps telling us about every single budget. Why am I and most of my friends poorer (espeically the ones made redundant or forced out of business) since Labour came into power? Where is this growth in real life here at ground zero? It only seems to exist in Gordon's mind.

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When the next election is on and the Labour candidate comes to my door he better be able to run faster than my dog :D.

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see my location - that's my opinion.

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Well apart from the beer and wine and petrol (in September) I'm no worst off. as I've mentioned before, the raise that was given to the stamp duty won't cut any ice here...

Edit: actually I'll take that back as our house has been valued at around 115K-120K we will slip in just below the new threshold this should make it easier to sell :)

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That'll be the car they bought and maintain with their hard earned savings which they paid tax on for 50 years or perhaps from a private pension lump sump or income. The kind of thing that prevents them from getting the minimum income top-up that is given free to those pensioners who didn't have the foresight to pay into a private scheme in order to top themselves up a little at retirement.

Edit: I'm actually wondering whether I should frikkin bother paying into my small private pension scheme because, projecting today's figures, I'd be better off spending it on more beer today and I can simply get the minimum income guarantee topup when I retire and be no worse off.

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thats pretty cool for you but in the majority it wont be. I doubt today you will still be in the same position you or your houses previous owner was in when stamp duty was increased to 60k.

I bought my house for 44k today its worth about 130-140k. Taking into account I bought during the low even then at a high it would have been 10k under stamp duty, so with todays increase it should have been 20k below or so of the new threshold.
Its past prudence and robbing the public that has enabled todays upgrades so to speak and those upgrades really arent giveaways as Im not in the same position I was 10 years ago, Im worse of and so would anyone wanting to buy my house shud I decide to sell in the future.

Theres 2 facts here with stamp duty. more houses even after todays threshold increase will be over that threshold which is a tax *increase*, on top of that house prices have increased and by bundles == a double boner for labour shafting the public up the jacksy

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money money money pay pay pay skint skint skint

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I find predictions are more accurate after the event ;)

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WTF is "Stamp" duty for anyway. Yeah, Ok, I know it is there to line the governments pockets like other taxes but it kinda sounds like some kind of contrived medieval window tax type thing. Its just daft.

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Lol! I think thats the answer!!!

:D

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Daft for us yes but not for the government, past shows property as a continually growing asset in value, despite the odd low points here and there property on the whole increase so what better way to have a self increasing tax ;) thats the point of it they dont need to put it up it puts itself up.

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From what was said on the news stamp duty was first introduced in the 17th century to help fund the Anglo - French war. It was a duty on any kind of written contract.

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And income tax was brought in before WW1 as a temporary measure due to protests about an import duty I believe.
It was only supposed to be in place until they found a permanent replacement for the duty!


Ah just found the history of income tax if anyone is interested

http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/history/

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gordon brown has a huge budget deficit to plug due to labours spending commitments, if labour wins the general election were in for a huge tax increase.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai...9/cnbrun29.xml
http://www.freelanceuk.com/news/746.shtml
http://www.xak.com/main/newsshow.asp?id=41148
http://www.ifs.org.uk/press.php?publ...&selectyr=2004

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We just had a bundle of increases today ;) lilke any budget not everything allways goes up but plenty has and will in the future.

Stamp duty threshold up, but not by enough to be anything other than a tax increase.
Same for inheritence tax
Fags up some booze up (and they will be by now I shud think;) )
etc, etc, etc.

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That's true... And the fact that we are still paying it, says something. It was also one of the principal taxes that led to the Boston Tea Party and the American Revolution... So smart move there :rolleyes:

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Why do you think guns and knives are illegal here ?

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I remember some people in the USA harping on about the fact that income tax is technically illegal and, constitutionally speaking, you aren't obliged to pay it.

Here's a quote I just googled....
The fact is no provision of the Internal Revenue Code requires anyone to file or pay income taxes. This tax, unlike other internal revenue taxes, is strictly (censored voluntary). This is because a compulsory income tax would violate the Constitution's three taxing clauses, the Bill of Rights and the 16th Amendment-all of which impose restrictions on the government's power and ability to tax income in ways few Americans understand. So, in order for the income tax not to be unconstitutional it had to be written on a non*compulsory basis. However, in order to deceive Americans of this, as well as provide federal courts and the IRS with deceptive passages on which to hang illegal prosecutions and illegal seizures, the Internal Revenue Code was written to make paying income taxes appear mandatory. The government succeeded in doing this by tricking the public into believing that those enforcement provisions of the Code, that apply to other, non-voluntary taxes (such as alcohol and tobacco taxes), also apply to income taxes when in fact, they do not. However, despite such trickery, the IRS still admits that our "income tax laws"' are purely VOLUNTARY!

Try telling that to the man who comes to reposess your car. ;)

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Isnt that American ?

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Yes, that is what I said,
"I remember some people in the USA harping on about the fact that income tax is technically illegal....."

Just making a comparison since we were talking about income tax history and the Boston Tea Party etc.

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Well that wasnt in the post I read it just started

"Heres something i googled..."

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* Stamp duty thresholds doubled to £120,00 0 - heh good one

* Inheritance tax currently starts being paid on estates worth £260,00 0 - that will rise to £275,00 0 this year, £285,00 0 next year and then to £300,00 0.
- translated means.....Browns in someones will

* Petrol duty inflation rise postponed until 1 September due to high oil prices
means, he's just bought a new jag and didnt get a fuel deal with it

* Mr Brown said he would freeze: corporation tax, capital gains tax, air passenger tax, insurance premium tax, climate change levy, aggregates levy and company car levy.
- he would he probbly personally profits from this.

* Duty up 1p on a pint of beer and 4p on a bottle of wine, but frozen on cider, sparkling wine and spirits.
And what does brown drink? Cider, sparkling wine and spirits I'd be willing to bet.

* Tax breaks on ISAs extended until 2010.
Browns got a couple of these in reserve

* Personal income tax allowance to be raised in line with inflation.
Getting ready for when he has to go get a job


Sorry I'm just cynical. Waiting for the general ellection, when labour get back in and tax goes through the roof.

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Funny though both Tory and Lib-Dem have said they would raise taxes more and I believe they would have overall just would ahve gone about some things differently.

so really if you vote labour still looks the best option. not that any of them will be getting my vote.

Monster raving looney party here we come ;)

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You took the words right out of my mouth

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I'm single; I have no kids; I don't travel; I don't drink; I don't smoke; I don't drive; I've no money to save; I'm not buying my own home. What's the budget got to do with me? :shrug:

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You don't drink, you don't smoke, what do you do??

</adam ant mode>

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Erm, guess :naughty:

[edit] I missed "beer" - awful watery foul tasting stuff - off the end of "Don't drink" :dozey: I do like a rum and coke :D

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This budgets not really of any benefit to me, my daughters just about to turn 16, so wont get most of

Help for parents

* Child tax credit to rise by 13%, in line with earnings, over next three years

* Child benefit to rise to a maximum of £63 for the first child and £111 for two children

hmmmmmmmm now theres a thought........need another sprog soon.....any takers????

:jk:

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Well from what I have seen it was a complete non event as far as I am concerned. I shall basically be about 40p a week better off according to the BBC website. :dozey:

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Well you read it wrong then. The post was not edited and it is even there, in full, quoted within your post containing your reply.

(and you read it wrong a second time too) ;)

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Heh dont worry bout it I often miss whats right under my nose ;)

Still it is true in the US income tax is voluntary its just they bank on the majority either being ignorant or believing that the country would fall if the contribution wasnt made :)

How ever thats not the case for this country and this budget is imo the biggest joke the labour party has made and the others could offer no improvement, in fact they openly admitted theirs would have been worse if you read between the lines.

MRLP looks like a good option, if its not available on my ballot paper I will add it anyway :P

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I suppose because Budgets are concerned with the nation's revenue and taxation Chancellors of the Exchequer will always be regarded with a certain amount of unpopularity. Gordon Brown as Chancellor has broken a record he is now the second longest occupant of the post overtaking David Lloyd George's record of 7 years. Only William Gladstone (19th century) has survived longer for 12 years.

I've read some comments in this forum a number of which border on the extreme, not unusual, and some comments could be seen as libellous. It is likely that public opinion in time may see Gordon Brown in a very different light than the members of this board have. I have not as yet had the time to study the Budget in detail and certainly issues will be clarified over the coming weeks as the Commons discusses the money bill. It has to be said though that Gordon Brown has performed his duties well, he has in fact been the pillar of the New Labour government, he is a symbol of stability and caution. I certainly hope that if the New Labour government is returned in the coming general election he will continue in his post.


:)

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from national statistics:-

"...for the calendar year 2004 the UK recorded a government deficit of £35.8 billion..."

"At the end of 2004 general government debt was £481.4 billion, equivalent to 41.6 per cent of GDP."

from the BBC key points:-
"Borrowing was forecast at £34bn for 2004/5, £32bn for 2005/6 and £29bn for 2006/7."

So each year he's spending around £30,000 ,000,000 more than he takes in tax receipts?

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But Labour are just lying and will put taxes up after the election!

I would rather vote for somebody who is honest and up-front about needing to raise taxes than someone who cuts them as a bribe 50 days before a general election only to put them up again.

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If you're only going to vote for an honest politician then personally I'd save myself a trip to the polling station ;)

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:rofl:

Edit: I will anyway as I am registered to vote by post! ;)

I will vote, however, for whoever has the greatest chance of defeating Labour in my constituency!

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well you should look at the long term and I dont just mean in the future i mean over the past aswell

Just where is the bribery ?

As for an honest politician errrm you having a laugh ?

Edit: as for 50 days before the election. you got some inside information or have I missed the official announcement that the election is @ xx:xx:05 ?

AFAIK any election date atm is purely rumour and conjecture by others

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I am looking over the longer term.

Before Labour came to power they said they would not get rid of student grants - they did and they introduce tuition fees on top!

Then they said they would not introduce top-up fees - they did!

Last election they said they would not put up income tax - they did not but they put up National Insurance by 1% and removed the cap, which is as good as putting all the income tax bands up by 1%!

Now they say they are going to give OAPs a discount on council tax but we all know that the council tax will go up for most people due to the revaluation in 2006 so that will probably wipe out the £200 bribe within a year.

It has been stated from sources within the government that the 05/05/05 date is what is being targetted and only something major in the meantime would prevent it from being that date so we might as well assume it will be in 49 days time unless we hear otherwise.

I think we will probably have to agree to disagree over this as it is obvious that we both have stong but opposing views. I am very much anti-Labour and object to the way they reverse their election promises. I almost voted for Labour in the 1996 election as their policies sounded reasonable but I am glad I did not now. As it happened, I voted for a minority party in that election and was one of the voters that could have prevented Labour gaining a seat in my old Castle Point constituency so that was almost as bad as voting for Labour. I have learnt my lesson now, though, and will be voting tactically in this year's election.

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All parties will drop promises it happens and ye its a bummer

NI is not income tax it goes to a seperate fund, for the countries future in a collective manner.

Like all the so called bribes of the election this was money in the bank allready anyway from past increases way over inflation, to give oap's a reduction is not just good its damn nesecary, and by all accounts will be up for review in a year. Its not a bribe it was called for by nessecity

Mr Blair calls the election date he can announce it as close as 1 week before he wants it. Iv only seen him say no date set yet. unless iv missed him announce a set date or target date Anything else is rumour and conjecture, and by others.

Your welcome to disagree for sure

All parties reverse certain promises.
To tactically vote in a general election its either tory or labour, Lib-dems dont have a big enough return to be really considered viable oposition for full government

Conservative current policy cut services save money and increase taxes more than labour did yesterday by their own statements and admissions.

Dont get me wrong I'm no labour supporter but imo we really do not want a contservative Britain. It will be another disaster and in a big way, just may not be the same disaster as the Thatcher days

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You are right it should, although whether it does is up to the government. However, it makes no difference to me where it goes I just have to pay 1% more tax, whether it is income tax or not.

I am not suggesting that the LibDems would win the election but that you could vote tactically for them to ensure Labour do not.

In Cambridge, Labour's majority is getting smaller each election and there is a very strong possibility that they will lose this year to the LibDems. So the way I see it it is a vote for or against Labour - a vote for the LibDems will increase the chance of voting Labour out, a vote for any other party (including Labour) is as good as a vote for Labour.

Re: The Budget
 

Not any more, it all just goes into Browns pocket..


Actually the lib dems are viable, if labour lose enough of their majority and it goes to no overall control, then the lib dems will be holding the balance of power in parlament. Okay, I'll grant that they aren't likely to get a majority but the could be left deciding which way to tip the scales.


At least there honest about it. and whats so bad about cutting money from services rather than throwing extra money so that you can employ another layer of managers to 'manage' the service.

Fourtunatly, I was only a young 'un through those years so I don't really remember them. I was around during the major years and lets not forget that the reason that the economy started off so well was the Gorden stuck to the very strick Tory spending restrictions through his first 2 years...