Surely this can't be right??
 

Original email


Reply


Surely i have been ripped off here? I signed up at a discounted student rate of £19.99 a month, and i expected this to be so for the course of the contract. Although its not a huge difference financially it still feels rather unjust to me.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

but you have changed service , it is upto ntl to decide if they will keep you on £19.99 a month i suppose :shrug:

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Perhaps you should have waited until the automatic update when you could have had a case for keeping your discount. Having clicked a link to order 2Mb at £24.99 you haven't much of a case.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

yep i guess so, but well still pretty shoddy behaviour from NTL IMO, ah well i'm leaving in june, Might try ringing them later anyway, i might get through to one of the good guys :-) Certainly if they do this to automatic upgrades then that would be hugely unfair IMO

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

It's not shoddy behaviour at all. NTL have not been in contact with you regarding the speed increases you have just heard about them and tried to beat the system by ordering your own increase. When you did this you were told that the price for 2Mb was £24.99. You should have stopped at that time and not ordered it, rather you should have rung NTL and asked if you would lose your discount or waited until it was automatically done.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

:tu:

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Well reasoned that man :tu:
have a greenie :p:

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Exactly, the page says the price which it'll charge you at.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

You are correct, it will only become shoddy when NTL start advertising upgrading customer's speeds at no extra cost :dozey: :D

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

MEH its not a big thing, but still there should be more warning than that IMO for people on special prices, but hey i can live with my mistake, if students who are automatically upgraded get the same treatment that is what would really be unfair thinking about it. the wording indicates that. I am just very dissapointed anyway that NTL would do this, but hey as you guys said i read the page i clicked so my fault really. guess i shouldn't get so excited next time ;)

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

I am not sure how correct all of this is.

ICMS customers who ask to change could physically have the old discount code left on, it wouldn't come off automatically at the point of the change, though I am unaware if customer services have any specific instructions on this. Perhaps Marge may know.

SABS I haven't tried. I don't know if the discount would fall off automatically or not. I would rather hope not. I personally feel that unless a customer actually changes TIER then the existing discount should run its course. In the case of automatic upgrades, I should imagine that legally it may have to, though I don't know as it could be argued it's a different product and the old one has been terminated, which they are allowed to do in the contract. But this would also consititute a material change allowing customers inside the 12 month minumum to opt out of the broadband part. Potentially messy and I could do with seeking clarification this week.
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If you wouldn't mind PMing me your details I will check tomorrow and see what has actually happened on your account. I realise you've been TOLD the discount won't stay on, but as you upgraded via the website it'd be interesting to see what ACTUALLY happened.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Sure no problem, will be interesting to see what happened, cheers!

what details do you need?

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Account number would be ideal but failing that ntlworld username or failing that house number and postcode.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

PM sent, cheers scrotnig ;)

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

always worth checking with a mod before giving personal details away ;) :)

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

From http://www.home.ntl.com/page/broadbandexisting

Existing 750K customers

We´re in the process of automatically upgrading your service to 2Mb. This upgrade is absolutely free and you don´t have to do anything to receive it. What´s more, the monthly price of this service remains the same. Check this page again for updates on when you will be upgraded.

I'm in almost the same situation, paying 19.99 a month for 750k but it's because I originally bought my CM. I saw the page that said 2Mb for 24.99 and decided to wait for the automatic upgrade but having seen the above page I might take an offline copy and go ahead and upgrade now.

Just had a thought... the price might stay the same but I lose my discount.... Think I'll wait :D

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

hi and :welcome: to the site , why do i get the feeling it wont :disturbd: :D :D :D :D

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

I would advise anyone who's unsure to hang fire until I report back tomorrow, I may have a more definitive answer then.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Yo, i had the same problem, i just upgraded my broadband today to 2mbs, and i was on the £19.99 deal, but NTL were charging me £24.99. I phone them up and it was all due to some crazy billing scheme, they chage full price, then lower it, but in total it all works out at 19.99, best thing to do is give them a call, and have them explain it to you.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

That's not crazy, it's how the system works.

The system gives you broadband at 24.99 which is the only price it can charge for that level of service. A discount code is then applied which brings the price down to the correct one.

I know this is the case with two of ntl's three main billing systems. Dunno about the third one as I've never used it and probably never will.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Yep already had that billing system explained to me after i contacted them via email after my statement showed the wrong ammount. Very nice bloke explained that they debit £24.99 then credit £19.99. At least thats how i interpreted it. But there was no such credit on my first statement hence me contacting them. we'll see what the outcome is tomorrow, if not i'll give them a quick call, can't hurt, cheers! :-)

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

*Moved to ntl Billing forum*

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

sorry. can't believe I was that blind to miss a whole forum!! :dunce:

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

hmm, we've got 2 750k connections (paying £19.99 for each) in my house, don't really want to be paying an extra tenner a month.

sounds like we'd probably better wait to be upgraded automatically then! :shrug:

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Ok for certain if you have a discount scheme and you upgrade online/manually then you'll lose the discount.

Not sure about the automatic ones, still waiting to hear. Maybe Marge could look into it....

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Thanks for the information Scrotnig.

Think I'll play the waiting game :)

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Upgrading your service will mean you lose any discounts or offers you were receiving prior to the upgrade......



sorry folks! :(

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Any increase in the price of the service is a valid and acceptable reason for cancelling the contract. It remains to be seen if customers getting a discount will have the discount removed when their service is upgraded automatically, somehow I think the discount may be retained.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

I had actually deleted my message, as it is fairly irrelevant, as I presume this will only apply to a tiny minority of clients.

Now that you have replied however, I'm sure some of the legal people will argue that the removal of a discount is not an increase in price.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Ahem! for reference:



20. Cancellation Rights



You may cancel the Services without penalty in the following circumstances:-

1. if we increase our Charges you may cancel those Services in respect of which the Charges have increased by giving us one month's notice in writing within 30 days of the earlier of:
   
   (a) such price increase being notified to you under Condition 6.2; or
   
   (b) the date of your first bill following such price increase, irrespective of whether the minimum period in respect of those Services has expired. If you cancel Services under this Condition, the increased Charges relating to those Services will not apply to you;
   
   
2. if we significantly reduce the content of the Services or make any significant change to the terms and conditions of this Agreement under Condition 26, you may terminate this Agreement by giving us one month's notice in writing within 30 days of such change irrespective of whether the minimum period in respect of such Services has expired.

6.2 We may vary our Charges from time to time but will publish any change in our main offices prior to the change taking effect. We will however do our best to give reasonable advance notice of any increase in our charges which is likely to substantially increase the charges payable by a significant proportion of our customers. Your rights to cancel the Services if we increase our Charges are set out in Condition 20.1(i). If you request a change to the Services supplied to you, we may need to alter the Charges to reflect those changes.



removal of discounts does not technically constitute an increase in charges......

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Hi and :welcome:

I would say that you will be paying £17.99 as you have chosen to take the 1Mbps service and saw it was priced at £17,99. You could have kept the 300k service and £15.99 price if you had done nothing.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

hi, i have just braved ringing ntl, and asked them if the price will stay at the discounted rate, they told me i will still be paying £15.99 so there are no worries there.

However i asked him to confirm that i am now on a 3gb a month cap, and had i stayed on 300k i could still be using the 1gb a day cap.

He said staying on 300k would have meant i could still use 1gb a day, but everyone will be on 1 meg soon enough so there is no point changing back.

I then asked how much the charges are if i do go over my limit (as i have already gone up to almost 4gb this month) and he said 'they' haven't told anyone yet how they are pricing it, but he reckons it won't be much. :rolleyes:

He told me seeing as though it is all rather new i will not be charged for going over the 3gb limit this month, but advised me to stay within 5gb to be on the safe side.

Make of that what you will........:LOL:
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oh and just to add.........my computer doesn't seem to be over 3 times faster now that i have upgraded!!!

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Hi

I'm in exactly the same situation as Paddy1 paying £19.99 as i payed £150 for my modem years ago so got a £5 discount each month.

However I decided to risk the upgrade via the upgrade link but am very concerned as to whether I'll be put on £24.99 a month.

Heres the screen grab of what the page looked like before I upgraded. Please take note that no price at all is on the page, all it says is NA where the price would of been.

Your thoughts on this please :)

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Photoshop?? :D

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

I would love to see that one in court if the removal of discounts is a result of the provider upgrading the service without consulting the customer.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

I would just ring NTL if you are at all worried, (0800 052 2000)
I rang about my worries and was told i will still have my discount so I would have thought anyone else will too.
In any case, if they are going to change your payment it will be after any 12 month contract, as I tried to cancel and they wouldn't let me until the end of contract!:confused:

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

No need - to save you on legal costs... here's section 13 of the terms & conditions.

13. Promotional Services

If we supply you with any Services, channels or programmes as part of a promotion or for promotional purposes and whether for a charge or otherwise we may if we wish at any time stop such supply or change the promotional Services, channels or programmes or package of Services, channels or programmes that we are supplying.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Yes, and I found the following under 'offers' in the general information (probably refers to the bundles but relevant nonetheless, the bit you posted above seems to refer more promotional channels, not promotional prices):

Also, from the T&Cs:

Now, if NTL tell me I get a discount, then surely the charge is the discounted amount, and removing the discount is an increase in the charge?

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

not quite - the charge is the amount listed in the price guide/listings. This is applicable for all services (as stated in section 13 - "any services").

Any discounts given can be removed at the company discretion (if required or if necessary). Any and all discounts are classed as promotional as these are supplied for a limited time period, at company discretion or for certain sections such as students/local authority etc... The company is in no way obliged (legally or otherwise) to maintain an offer or discount as opposed to the full price that all other customers paid unless a contract has been signed clearly stating that this will be the case. There are however the terms & conditions that form the contract, and as stated above, discounts may be removed. [The people losing their discount will have been paying less than everyone else prior to the upgrade.... a lot of people would consider the fact that they are paying more for a service than others as unfair too! - consider this the opposite argument and the basis that it's impossible to keep everyone happy at all times].

Example - If you are subscribed to the Family digital TV package for £29.00 per month and 4 months into your contract this price increased to £32.00 per month, then you may be able to use the price increase argument and request a cancellation of contract/services.

Whether this is a point you wish to argue or otherwise, discounts will be removed unfortunately. It would not be viable for a business to maintain discounts or offers for an unlimited period and to expect otherwise, i'm sorry, is unrealistic. All good things come to an end :( .

Head is swimming with flu at the moment so I hope this makes sense.... :dozey:
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also - here is the corresponding/connected 'definition' as stated in the terms & conditions.

"Charges" means charges to be paid by you calculated according to the prices and rates set out in our Price Lists or otherwise notified to you;

"Price Lists" means the material published by us from time to time which includes the prices and rates for the Services and Equipment we offer including the usage rates for the Services;

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Do you know this for a fact? As i have spoken to NTL and they confirmed that my discount still applies until the usual ending period on it.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

I've received roughly 5 internal mails and 2 paper bulletins confirming that this is correct.... I guess it is then :disturbd:


As I've said above - the discounts are discretionary and you may have had the discount extended as a goodwill gesture. They are automatically removed during upgrades I would imagine and it's possible that the csa you spoke to has manually reapplied some sort of discount. Withough looking into at your account I cannot tell. You had better confirm this me finks.

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

UPDATE

Just had my bill for the 1st April - 30th April and it still shows £19.99 so I guess im a happy chappy at the moment as £19.99 for 2meg is a good price. :D

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Hi Snoopz. How did you do the upgrade? Online or over the phone? I've been holding out for the automatic upgrade but I'd like to do it now if I thought I'd get away with it :erm:.

Also, what NTL area are you as policies might differ.

Paddy

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

Hi Paddy. Well I originally tried CS on the 18th of March and I had a hard time explaining the fact that when NTL originally brought out the 600k service(always been called 600k for a SACM and not 512k as far as I am aware), that we got a choice on whether to rent or buy the modem for £150... . so buying it out right meant we got BB for £19.99.

Anyway CS said I wasn't on BB! even though I've had BB since August 2001. so he went away and saw someone else and when he came back he said it was sorted and it wouldn't affect my price that I was paying(I got the impression he hadn't a clue). All I would have to do was reboot the modem he said.

2 Hours later still no upgrade so I said sod it and upgraded via the webpage which rebooted my modem after 10mins and the speed was 2meg rather than 750k.

I'm in the Cambridge area (not sure whether it Bromley or Langley as I don't know what that means). It wasn't an ex C&W area.

Also on that webpage it doesn't display any price for me only the letters NA, (see my screen grab I posted up the page) and on my bill its called 600kB service not 750k or 2meg.

Hope that helps, let me know how you get on and how it appears on your bill etc. :)

However next time theres a speed upgrade I'll be tempted to wait rather than do it manualy.

SnoopZ

Re: Surely this can't be right??
 

When I first signed up it was 512k. I think they upped it when ADSL came out so as to stay one step ahead. This was at the same time as the 128k service went to 150k.


In Belfast here. Still not ex C&W though.

Hmmm... When I went to that page it definitely said existing service £24.99, 2Mb service £24.99

Will Do.
Thanks for the info.