When will the uS Government wake up????
 

If this isn't enough to make them sit up and think about gun laws, I don't know what is....

Re: When will the uS Government wake up????
 

Heard that on the radio yesterday :( Americans love their guns and their rights to bear arms but since when was a purse a secure place to stow a weapon :(

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When will the US government wake up? Never - the uproar from the slack-jawed yokels who seem to view guns as trophies and ornaments would be deafening.

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Expect to see Charton Heston at a NRA rally in that town soon.
And Michael Moore blaming Walmart and Lockheed :rolleyes:

This mother is totally irresponsible to have a deadly weapon in such easy access of her kids!

Anyone know what that state's firearms laws are regarding the storage of guns and ammo?

Fine, they have "the right to bear arms" which in one of the last topics involving Jerrek some of us pointed out was a mis-interpritation of that particular right, but make the gun ownership laws much stricter!
If I was in america and was so concerned that I felt I had to own a gun, then I'd keep it in a gun safe at home with the magazine out of it and safety most definitely on.
If I felt I needed one while out and about (first I'd consider moving to a safer area) then again I'd keep it with magazine out.

Actually, to be honest, I'd only have a gun for target practice and airsoft guns are good enough for that (and non-lethal)

If I wanted to defend myself then I'd have a tazer, either hand held or dart firing gun.

If you have kids then you don't keep loaded guns, it's not rocket science!

Why is it though in other countries where gun ownership and public carrying is alowed you don't get so many incidents?

I know in Israel you can carry a licienced gun (I could not get used to being stopped and asked if I had one when going into pubs and restaurants!), but in order to keep your licience you have to shoot regularly. I guess this helps remind people about proper gun handling, and also, with regular use, you have a better idea of where the gun actually is.

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Wasnt there a two year old killed with just such a gun about 2 weeks ago in the uk?

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http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/StateLaws.aspx?ST=TX
This bit is interesting

Re: When will the uS Government wake up????
 

Indeed there was...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4317423.stm

although I think there is a difference between an "airsoft" gun and a pellet airgun (the latter of which it seems was used to kill the poor child).

Re: When will the uS Government wake up????
 

No there bloody well was not!

That poor child was killed by an airpistol (legally owned too, I believe).
These are high powered, target/rat killing weapons.

Anything with a energy rating of over 1.35J is considered to be able to inflict a lethal wound (lethal being the legal term for any significant wound such as drawing blood)
Legally firing anything at higher than 1.35J at someone is illegal (there are specific clauses for paintball markers which fire well above this level but no one's ever been killed by a paintball..)

Airsoft weapons are normally restricted to 1J to make sure we're well below the limit. This equates to 328fps with a 0.2g plastic BB
Out of the box you're looking at only 260-280fps so well below 1J
Springers which are unfortunately readily available to chavs from market stalls are even lower.
A UK 1J airsoft weapon will sting when you're shot by it, may even produce a small welt, but after a few minutes that generally subsides.
In other countries, such as Norway and the US, there are no limits, and some sites in the UK still alow single action sniper rifles to run at 500fps but with minimum range limits, so their impact force is below 1J.
No one has ever died from being shot with an airsoft weapon.

Airguns are generally rated at 1000fps and beyond and fire metal pellets.

So, as you can see, there is a HUGE difference between airsoft and airguns (unfortunately, unlike paintball we can't rename our guns "markers" to make them sound nicer)

Re: When will the uS Government wake up????
 

I'll bet a 0.2g plastic BB travelling at 328fps into someones eyball could still probably ruin ones chance of becoming an airline pilot.

Re: When will the uS Government wake up????
 

It'd sting like hell, cause the target to drop to the ground screaming (stop them attacking you too!) but wouldn't do any permanent damage.
Certainly wouldn't kill them!

As I said, airsoft guns are the only ones I'd have because of being an airsofter (used while skirmishing against others with eye/face protection).
I don't see why I'd need a firearm.
If I lived in an area where I felt so scared for my life that I needed protection, I'd carry something like a tazer or mace (assuming I wasn't able to move out of the area), I certainly wouldn't carry something designed to kill when used.

Anyway, back to the case at hand, according to paul's post this woman broke the law and her child paid the price.
Had she followed the gun laws then her child would not have been able to get hold of the gun.
Ban guns and again, you will have eventually another breach of the law where the same thing happens but with an illegally owned gun (maybe some "home boy" left his desert eagle lying around)
Having laws to protect people, no matter how strict, only work up to the point where they are not broken.

Re: When will the uS Government wake up????
 

Be willing to stake a few $$ on the fact that theres probably a lot more accidental road deatsh than accidental gun deaths.

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And that people use cars far more than they use guns, thus invalidating the comparison.

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I thought something like 8/10 americans owned guns?

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ummmm !!! :confused:

295 million population approx

unintentional gun deaths 1200

guns in .us circulation approx 212 million

approx 85 deaths per million cars in .us so if theres 212 million cars in circulation in .us that will equal some 18020 death by car accidents. Somewhat more than accidental gun deaths, pro rata

Thereby proving the point vehicles are far more dangerous so if the .us was to consider banning a part of their constitution of the right to be able to act in self defense bearing arms, then really cars should also become a consideration for banning. and fully validating the comparison.

Re: When will the uS Government wake up????
 

The bit that makes the comparison invalid is that a Gun is designed to kill, simple as. A car is designed to transport people/goods but can also kill if used improperly. If a car was designed to kill with transportation being of secondary importance I think the comparison would hold more wieght.

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But you've basically just said something which is not designed to kill actually kills more than something which is designed to kill..

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Yes but it could be considdered acceptable since thats not its primary function, does a gun have another function?
There is also the fact that most car accidents are caused by driver error rather than the car itself. Wich to me calls for increases in driver profficiency tests rather than the banning of cars. Though banning cars might not be a bad thing, Motorbikes would be extremely safe to use if it wasnt for cars and they are much more efficient. And deaths to people other than the rider on a motorbike are extremeley rare.

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A gun is a tool just like any other.
If you leave a power saw laying around a 6 year old could get it and cause enough harm to himself to cause death.

Guns keep people free from government takeover.
Proper training is whats nesasary not banning.

If we start by banning guns whats next the wifes steak knives

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A saw is designed for cutting wood and other materials, a steak knife is designed for cutting meat. A Gun is designed for killing, dont even try and describe it as anything else.

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Edit: <cut>
first off you say its quantity, now you say its the design, so how often do you change your socks ?
</endcut>didnt notice t was 2 different users :P

A gun is designed to kill, well yes, so if something is so lethal how come it causes less than one tenth the damage of something designed not to kill ?

Now we can go on to car manslaughters/murders. I'd also be willing to bet that more people get away with negligent manslaughter/murder by poor driving than there are actual accidental gun deaths. Like driving a few mph over the limit, or changing your cd and suddenly you have a 4 year old on your bonnet etc.
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killing yes!!
but id say it was as much a hunters tool as a weopon of war in the origins of the gun.

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A gun has many uses other than killing try hiting a 2centimeter circle at a 100 meters and you will find it takes complete body control as well as mind.
Any tool can be useed as a weapon even the gas in your car .

the uk bans guns how many deaths by firearms are listed as happening

more than you might think and most by illegal guns owned by crooks and you have no legal way to protect your self from them

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A gun is designed to fire bullets
Where those bullets go is up to the gun operator

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A quite large amount of deaths from what I gather but If I remember correctly its mostly gangland related anyway So no banning or un-banning of guns will change those figures.
The type of people in this country with guns arnt really the type you can defend yourself against in that manner. If you kill one of them you will likeley live out the day but the next day you are likeley to be greated by his family and/or associates so your gonna end up dead too.
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I still dont see a use for it, seems more like using a lethal weapon for a hobby to me, still not really a good use. Can you do anything constructive with it? Can you weld with a gun? no. Can you cook a delicous meal with a gun? thought not. can you drive a family member to the airport in a gun? hmm.
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What constructive porpose does firing bullets at lethal velocity have?
Hunting is the only one listed so far that even comes close to a constructive porpose, and since that rarely seems to be done to eat but rather for fun I would say thats not very constructive either.

Re: When will the uS Government wake up????
 

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If you had a gun and you saw your wife or any child being harmed and you could shoot and stop it

Would you?

In the us we can do this if need be.

And here to. You can lose your life for trying to stop the crooks but to give your life protecting another is the best you can do

Re: When will the uS Government wake up????
 

There are other ways to stop things like this happening than to shoot someone, no matter how satisfying it would be to kill anyone trying to commit such an act it doesnt mean its the only way.
Problem is legalising guns just gives a higher probability that any 'crook' will be armed in the first place.
And yes If I had a gun and I witnessed that I would shoot them, then shoot them several more times to make sure they dont live to tell of it. But then If I wasnt armed I would still have a go at stopping them, if you need a weapon to think you are in control of any situation then I think you have innadequecy issues that maybe you should take a closer look at.

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There is an old saying here
When guns are banned only crooks will have guns

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Suppose this is almost right for here the households hardly have any but the crooks have loads.

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And the people who do own legal firearms, now have a much harder time when you need to renew their firearms certificate.

I personally own two shotguns, both of which I have used to hunt wildfowl, and for Clay pidgeon Shooting. Due to new legislation, when I have to renew my firearms certificate, I have to get the landowners on whos land I shoot to each write a letter to explain why I am allower to shoot on their land.

Crazy in my opinion, but thats what the current ''facist'' New Labour government demand. :rolleyes:

Re: When will the uS Government wake up????
 

Well, one could argue that guns brought freedom from Nazi tyranny in Europe.
Still not sure why something has to have a constructive purpose to exist though...


Changing the subject back on track (sort of)
Anyone got any ideas as to why there are so many of these incidents in the US compared to other countries which also allow gun ownership?

Re: When will the uS Government wake up????
 

I have one thing to say...

What is this world coming to? :(

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We live in the UK and you are on about another country one that has a long history of having to defend themselves. Where guns have always been a part of their lives.

Who are we to suggest their way of living is right or wrong. In history if they hadn't had the guns to defend themselves they wouldn't be here now. Who is to say 500yrs down the road if that would still be true.

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Um Kits, I'm not saying their wrong to be able to have guns.

I'd just like to know why there are so many incidents like this one in america but not in other countries where gun ownership is allowed?
Is it because the other countries incorporate gun responsibility into their laws (israel for instance allows you to own a gun but you must practice at a range regularly thus making sure you actually know how to treat it whilst in and out of your hand)?
Or is it something else?

Re: When will the uS Government wake up????
 

The biggest reason it happen is that you have people that buy guns and then they hide them from children instead of teaching them that a firearm is not a toy.
Most children dont realize what a gun can do because some parents just dont teach them about it
They are afraid the child will say something to someone about it and the parents will be accused of being a violent person.

And in the us at this time its considered in the liberal society to not be politicly correct to attempt to protect yourself from the criminal community.

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So that doesn't happen in the other countries then? People are more open/concerned with their children understanding the dangers and uses of firearms? An interesting hypothesis :)

Been talking to my GF who's south african.
Down there to get a gun licence you need to go through the police for checks (any criminal record denies you the licence), have perfect eyesight, and most people get them for home defence, keeping their gun in a safe hoping it won't ever be needed.
Certain people (like ex soldiers and others) are able to carry guns in public, but in bars/clubs etc they have to hand them over to be put in the safe.

Re: When will the uS Government wake up????
 

Interesting point.

My fiancee is also South African... (fancy a braai?) :)

We watched Bowling for columbine yesterday and we were amazed at the difference in gun crime deaths between the USA and Canada.

:Yikes:

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Can we swap? :disturbd:
Heck how about you just take her and some koeksisters? :D

Yeah, the "southparkesq" scared white guys cartoon bit was probably quite accurate.
Wish it had been a decent program looking into why they boys did it though, rather than just trying to have a go at Wallmart and Lockheed

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Hmm... koeksisters are better than biltong....

OK, deal!

:angel:
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I agree on that, it would have been good to get a better insight on WHY...

Re: When will the uS Government wake up????
 

And yet another horror story .... The worst since Columbine. Something needs to be done... :(

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Anyone know how he got hold of the guns?
One is believed to be his grandfather's
Anyone know what the law is on storage of firearms in that state?