Racial Equality ??
 

Have the Commission for Racial Equality finally lost the plot ?

Link > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4323979.stm

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the whole reason the Civil Rights movement was set up in the first place - to stop that happening?

Truth is far stranger than fiction.

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

:erm:

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

Actually it makes sense to me.What they mean is that the youngsters need to be separated from other like minded young black teenage boys because they are a poor influence on each other education wise.It's not a racist issue at all just a means to address a problem in the short term.

Young black teenage boys are seriously underachieving and it is an issue that needs to be addressed.Some of these boys have no positive male role model to influence them and for some of them an absent father is the only example they have of a black male in their lives.There are too few teachers who are black let alone male ones.So I don't think that the gentleman concerned is mad and the commission have most definitely not lost the plot.

IF young black teenage boys continue to leave school with as few qualifications that some do at present we will end up with a vast proportion of disaffected young black men.Not trying to stereotype but I can see how that might lead to serious problems in the areas that they live in.A state of no hope already exists in some inner city areas in this country.A good education that leads to a good job with a reasonable income is what we all aspire to.Some youngsters in the black communities are not buying into this however and it can only lead to trouble for society in the wrong run.

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

Very well put.

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

Or maybe they've done some joined up thinking?

However this isn't IMO simply to do with Black Boys, there seems, in some groups, to be a culture of "it's not cool to do well at school", ie not simply not being "swotty" but actually trying to do badly.

That may do wonders for the "teen image", but it's damn all use for their future.

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

I see, and somewhat agree with the idea if a group is not performing and it will help them to improve.

However, think what a fuss we would see if for instance it was quoted as "White boys to be seperated etc etc etc"

I wonder how much fuss the people who shout about racial equality would make about it!

The whole situation would be deemed racist if it was reversed.

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

I just read this article and nearly choked on my breakfast!

Only someone from the CRE could possibly suggest this without demands for his resignation from everywhere.

As to whether it makes sense? Probably.

Just as it makes sense to educate girls and boys in separate schools. Both do better without the distracting influence of the other.

What is being called for here? Separate schools for girls and boys AND separate schools based on religion, ethnicity?

So now our equality/integration (political correctness etc.) would have us segragating everyone during their formative years, say from 4-18, and then we'll just put them right back into society at large and expect them all to understand each other and accept each other.
Yeah, right.

While this might be ideal for individual groups, it's hardly a recipe for success for society as a whole.

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

I suspect old Trev has no knowlege at all of the civil rights movement in the US then.

Good job the people involved in Brown vs Board Of Education are all dead, because they'll be spitting feathers atm.

My personally feeling on this is that if these black boys are causing trouble, then sitting them next to like minded people deliberately would mean they would encourage and help escalate each other. In that respect such a class of kids would be unteachable and require something an ex-SAS or 1st Para teacher just to maintain some kind of order.

Lets say a white person said this, purely out of a desire to all round improve things. Do you think Trev would come out and agree with him? Or say that the guy is racist, etc?

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

So Apartheid/Segregation is ok if it benefits the blacks... :D ;)

</frivelous comment>

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

what about poor achieving white boys, asian boys? do we just them go by the wayside.

Newsflash the nuclear family rarely exists, there are plenty of white boys from single parent families.

There are too few teachers full stop.

But isn't this an inner city, young male attitude. It's not a race issue. I agree something needs to be addressed but why single out the Black kids for preferential treatment.

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

Much as this seems like turning the clock back to segregation I think it's a good thing that someone is looking at different ideas on how to teach young black boys. I do not however, think that the teaching system is failing them (as that hypocritical black female labour minister once said) they are failing themselves as a result of peer pressure and probably black youth culture. I don't really understand how teaching them on their own would help matters as they would still be in a class with others of their ilk.
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We need to start somewhere and thats a good a place as any :shrug:

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

I'd like to know why Trev has to bring race into this. I suspect he has to, to justify his own existance. If he isn't moaning about something, they he might be made redundant

When I was at school, our years were separated into different groups. The smarter in one, and the less-smarter in another. Race never came into it. Smart black people when in the smart group, and the less-smart black people went in the less-smart group. When I went to secondary school and groups went from 2 to 5, it wsa exam and homework results which dictated what class you were in(scholarship pupils were in their own supergroup naturally).

I can't see whats wrong with that and why race needs to be a contributing factor. Do smart black people have to be put into this black group filled with less-smarter black people? And if not, then what is the point of the whole thing?

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

i brave move it cant carry on as it is now - if it upsets a few people so be it, you dont like it move :)

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

I'm not sure about the wisdom of removing black youth from their peers. I think black youth do have role models very successful role models in all walks of life. Clearly, there are black youth who have succeeded in the present set up. A teacher is a teacher regardless of ethnicity.

I agree we have got to deal with a section of black youth who are disaffected and there may be other external reasons for disaffection.

Separation is not the answer.


:)

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4326007.stm

Common sense to prevail?

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

Actually in our school in science they do take the brighter boys(of any ethnic background) and put them into one class away from the girls during year 10 and 11.It works!

The girls will do well whether they are with boys or not but the boys do find girls a distraction(and Russ I'm really not being sexist or racist just pragmatic).

I as a teacher will consider any method if it benefits the students and their future as members of our society.If one way of teaching a subject won't work I'll try another way.If one explanation is not understood then I'll try to rephrase it it so the student can understand.I'll keep doing that until the child understands.

Not everyone does well in mainstream education and there should be a way to accomodate them all.

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

I didn't realise you had me figured as one of the "That's racist!!" types!! :D

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No, just covering all bases for all people... ;)

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

But you named me!!! That's..erm.....baldist!!

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No that's just familiarity breeding errrrrr....contempt? ;)

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Contemptist!!

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

No. The casualties end up in an FE college and in most cases black youth make progress in a class of all sorts. FE usually picks up school failures and transforms them into success stories. It may be of course these school failures can focus on worthwhile goals, regardless of the ethnicity of the teaching staff. It would be quite wrong to follow the T. Phillips path, after all, how long ago was it that we were being advised that boys generally were performing less well than girls.



:)

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

Bottom line is that under-achieving pupils should a) try harder b) be encouraged to try harder and c) receive extra tuition if necessary.

What disgusts me about this is the reference to black children. I attended a grammar school and there were a lot of black and Asian boys there. The local comprehensive had a lot of white kids. Big deal. When we start looking at the kids as people, and start teaching them as people, then we will sort the problem. As soon as we start blaming it on colour, race, religion, then we have completely missed the point. This is not a race or colour issue. The chap from the CRE should be sacked.

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

Yes some of ours do go out to FE part time during year 10 and 11.The only benefit I've seen is that when they are out the class is quieter.When they return they are just as unfocused(well on the lessons anyway).Hopefully when they do get out to FE full time they will have more focus.I will add that the proportion of boys to girls involved in this is that more boys go than girls.
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Why is it wrong to deal with a particular group that are underachieving?To try and finds ways to motivate them?One size fits all does not work especially in education.

After all should we not embrace all methods of providing an equal education for all?After all we do allow segregation through single sex schools.Isn't that possibly sexist?And yet such choice in enshrined in law.Frankly I'll use whatever works as a teacher.Agreed that we should deal with them as people not ethnic groups but sometimes we may have to make exceptions to any rule IF we are to give everyone a fair chance.

And I think that you'll find that the suggestions you made in your first sentences have already been made and have failed.

The black teenagers that are being referred to here are opting out of the system.They don't see anyway to fit in with society and have already rejected it.Maybe if they were give more contact with male role models that have done well and obtained a good education they might see a point to education.They need to see black success that is not based on sports or entertainment which is what seems to be focused on when such issues are raised.

However instead of dealing with it society will condemn this as racist and a chance to really discuss this issue and do something about it will be lost.

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

As has been explained in a different thread, if you discriminate FOR one group, you are discriminating AGAINST every other group. Let's just suppose one of these black kids then goes on to get a job in favour of one of his classmates (black or white) who didn't get the extra special treatment? He then gets on at the detriment of someone else, not because he tried harder, but because more effort was granted to him. What you are supporting is NOT giving everyone an equal chance.

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

This is one thing I agree on, well done Incognitias!!!!!

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

If they fail, try again, and again; or do you advocate giving up at the first hurdle? That's hardly a "role model" for kids to follow, is it?

Teenagers of ALL creeds and colours opt out of the system. That is a choice that many of them make. It is wrong to mollycoddle them in an attempt to give them an easier start in life than those who buckle down to hard work from day one.

"They need to see black success"? No. They need to see success full stop.

Your suggestion advocates preferential treatment to one particular group - black kids. Whichever way you cut it, that is RACIST, and I think you will find black people feel the same as white people on that point. You are supporting an idea that discriminates against white, Asian, Eastern European and Asian Oriental kids. What happens if there happens to be an Asian boy who is also not doing so well? Is he excluded because he isn't black?

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

I do not mean to be a damp sponge, the last I had to deal with a works experience, he was a black lad he was such a lovely kid. But he could not read or write, I felt so sorry for him, he wanted to be a nurse. So when I rang up the school and had a grumble at them, I was told that he was a non acheiver and that all he would do was sit at the back of the class and act a clown. But when I was talking to him, he told me he was sat at the back and ignored. So yes, I do agree with Ingcogintias on this one chuck as everyone in life should be able to do what they want to do and not to be ignored!!!!!

Re: Racial Equality ??
 

Well everyone agrees that comprehensive education didn't work because you can't treat everyone the exact same.Not all of us are equal all the time.So giving a helping hand to those who are failing to keep up could count as discrimination against those who are bright.Is that what you are saying?

So how do we take certain sections of our societies and provide them with the positive help they need?IF we can't pick them out because it is discrimination how can we help them? or do we just ignore the problem because to be seen to try and do anything about it is discrimination.Then the other side thinks that it is unfair that they don't get equal treatment.

Well yes young white teenage boys are also having a problem in education and have until recently been under achieving.Some thought has been given to helping them and hopefully things are inproving.However a small number of black teenage boys are STILL under achieving,do we just ignore it because to do anything positive is discrimination.


The problem is that it is impossible to discuss anything about racial matters anymore because it just becomes a litany of what is unfair for one group or another when it comes to positive discrimination.Frankly I think we have become too frightened by the race issue to actually solve any of the issues that affects each ethnic group.We tend to leave it to the individual groups to sort out themselves thinking it's none of our business.

Some will come back and bite us if we don't offer a positive discriminatory hand from time to time.Not all the time just once in a while.A recognition that a group is having a hard time.

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Then I would suggest that perhaps the problem may be with the teacher, in that case at least?
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What I am saying is that we should give ALL under-achievers a helping hand, and not just black kids. To suggest that is abhorrent, and as I mentioned earlier, the chap from the the CRE should be fired. Incidentally, CRE stands for Commission for Racial Equality. Hardly what he is suggesting, would you agree?

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I do not believe this will work. Take a simple example, many minor criminals once jailed go on to become major criminals. Its a fact that has been acknowledged for several years now. Segregation is not the attitude to take for disafeccted youths. It *will* lead to many becoming worse.

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Well I expect his days are numbered now.I suspect that he was only trying to get a debate going about the plight of many young black teenage boys living in urban areas and attending urban schools where they are the majority in the schools that they attend.I suspect that his message has got entirely lost in all the rhetoric anyway. :(