NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

Just received the latest ntl:home advert - a big advertisement feature attached to the local free newspaper.

In the section on Broadband, it states the following:
"400,000-600,000 movies are downloaded every day" and "Spiderman was available on the net before it was even in the cinema"

How on Earth can NTL expect it's customers to respect copyright when it is actively promoting their broadband service for illegally downloading movies??

Duncan

Can you scan a copy of that and post it on here Duncan?

aye, go on Duncan, post it here and then lets mail the URL to the newspapers ... ntl could get a good kicking if this is true...

Here it is - the quotes are in the box down the left-hand side.

Welll more ammo for the advertising standards can you say which paper it is in and get a few copies please

It says at the top left hand corner of the article :D

thank you

i dont think they should be advertising piracy imagine if the MPAA got there hands on it yes i know in the uk they cant do a thing YET!!!

I don't think it is that bad. It's not promoting that you should do it, it only advises that alot of people do d/load movies. Not sure how it will sit with the powers that be but I guess legal checked it before marketing it.

it must be worth dropping them a line NTL are a usa company

but people can not do it remember the cap hence the advertising is incorrect

lol...I think anyone on any connection would struggle to download 400,000 movies don't you :p

Fair point, never looked at it that way. Thought people were complaining that ntl were promoting illegal d/loads.

Thanks for that Scooby makes interesting reading (I haven't seen a LWN for months :()

If it is stating fact, which it probably is, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. If ntl were also consistently applying the cap, then it may be construed as misleading; but ntl do not appear, at the present time, to be actively applying it.

It therefore appears to be quite good marketing.

No, but FACT can..

oh yeh forgot about them :eek:

FACT... who?

FACT: The Federation Against Copyright Theft

http://www.fact-uk.org.uk/

There's no doubt about it, they are implying that illegal movie downloads are a positive benefit of broadband internet. It's morally dubious if not outright illegal. They're even using an official copyright image from the film. I expect the film distributor might decide using the photo in such a way is in itself a breach of copyright.

Hmm, BBC online might just get a tip off tomorrow morning ;)

So first they introduced a cap and then they advertise piracy.

Only NTL could be stupid enough to do this

oooooo if i was still in the playground id be hissing "grass! grass!" etc teehee.

* :notopic:s himself

Yes they are stating a fact in that people download movies and that Spiderman was (illegally) available to download before the cinema release, but in the context of an advert encouraging you to subscribe to NTL's broadband service NTL are suggesting that downloading movies illegally is a reason for subscribing to their service. In this respect they are encouraging copyright infringement.

While they are not literally saying "subscribe to our service to download movies" they are saying "people have broadband to shop on the internet and download movies. You should subscribe to our broadband service [and then you can do these things]".

They are using the ability to download movies in the reasonable time-frame that broadband gives you as a selling point for their service. And to quote a specific title - Spiderman - that was certainly never available to legally download prior to the cinema release (and I'm pretty sure isn't available to legally download now) is hardly appropriate. Suppose someone downloaded Spiderman and then got a letter from NTL stating that they were in breach of the T&C/AUP for doing so - I think the user would have a strong case to complain on the basis they were only using the account for the purpose for which it had been advertised.

A further quote from the feature is "We have only just scratched the surface of what you can experience and do in this magazine [with broadband]".

There is no mention of any "recommended daily download limits" mentioned anywhere in the advertisment feature although it does state "services available in ntl cabled streets and subject to capacity".

Duncan

The MPAA can act in Britain, they just to do so by pulling the strings in the background. I read a few days ago against a court case being taken against a group distributing pirate DVDs in the UK. Officially the court case is being brought by Warner's UK arm, but the MPAA are doing the actual driving from the background.

You think? The MPAA would certainly have something to say, and guess who has a shareholding in a certain on-demand movies service?

I have some inderect dealings with all of the major Hollywood studios....but can I bring myself to snitch?

Bwhahahahaha

OK, I've been on to my mate Chris @ FACT and he is more than a little interestead in the article....


The first, second and fourth item (above the superman pic) are acceptable as they are commenting on the availability of DVD's for purchase.
However, Item 3... "400,000 - 600,000 movies are downloaded every day" is a perfect example of promoting copyright theft.

If a case is brought against ntl: I will know about it by 9:00 GMT tomorrow and will post in this thread to let you guys know.

Microsoft is VERY anti piracy. Do they still have shares in NTL

Makes me wonder how their marketing dept think they will get away with it! :erm:

Why do you say item 4 - "Spiderman was available on the net before it was even in the cinema" is acceptable? It certainly wasn't officially available on DVD before the cinema release(!) The only way it was available on the net before the cinema release was as an illegal download - and again NTL are promoting their broadband service for this purpose.

Duncan

nothing surprises me when it comes to NTL.

This is how they get the custom.

"customs" may be interested too lol

I seem to recall when the cap first came out, a BBC online article which implied that one of the reasons for a cap was pressure from the BPI (British Phongraphic Industry) to reduce illegal downloads.

OK so yes here we are talking of movie downloads, but it's much the same thing really. It's copyrighted material, and ntl seem to be promoting that it's OK to get hold of it without paying the authors.

I can see FACT, BPI, MPAA and anybody else watching this very closely.

if anyone can get any copies of this advert i am willing to pick them up as its just over the border in yorkshire.
I will the send them to the relevant organisations, including FACT and the ASA.
I think that Vidzone will also be interested in this recent campaign by NTL, SKY will also be interested and Disney

So if you have a few copies or can point me in the direction of stores that stock it please PM me

I hope NTL go down in flames for this advert. What the hell were they thinking. Is there no thought process involved with that company any more.

OK guys bit of a dumb move by NTL to say the least, but trying to get your TV and telephone supplier and your ISP taken too court is as equally silly.

What happens to the customers when NTL gets hit with a huge fine and a bigger legal bill? our bills will go up yes it will affect us all.

I dont want loss of service, increase in bills or monitoring on my inmternet connection and the little stunts you lot are trying to pull are jeopardising this not just for me but for everyone.
I hope to god non of you evcer have the gall to say the internet shouldnt have any kind of enforcement.


PLease stop and think about exactly what you are doing.

i totally agree with the above :rolleyes:

This is not about trying to get ntl taken to court. If that happens only the vultures (lawyers) win.

This is about getting ntl to advertise their services in a fair manner so that potential new (and existing) customers are not mislead. It's about getting ntl to be consistent in the messages they send to their customers.

To attempt to promote the ability and availability of a service that would be illegal to use is just unbelievable. To indicate on one hand that this volume of data transfer is available, when on the other hand the company is desperately trying to limit download use, is frankly appalling.

Departments and management at ntl clearly do not communicate. The regulators seem disinterested or powerless in getting ntl to play fair. At some stage or other ntl have to be made to behave properly. Regrettably, it may take the threat's of legal action to make ntl follow the rules of good business.

Sorry but I distinctly read somewhere that FACT had been contacted. Therefor it is about getting NTL prosecuted.

I am not going to comment on the article as I have no legal experience and I do not know anything of copyright law.

What I do know is that some people have jumped in here and done some very strange things. It appears because of personal vendettas against NTL its ok to make others suffer.

Think about this:-
If NTL get shafted in court and it costs them Millions, how the hell are they gonna upgrade and improve the service?

Its the only way NTL learn from being slapped where it hurts in the pocket

I guess my point is that yes NTL are very very stupid to do such a thing, but why are you all reporting them for it?

Ok maybe that is how NTL learn, but does that make it ok to carry out an action that could affect others that want no part of it?

If NTL had caused you no problems at all, would you honestly be carrying out these actions?

What if (and yes I am kinda exagerating here) NTL went bust over this, I cannot receive BB from ANY other company where I live, why should I suffer in those circumstances?

All I am saying is that think carefully of what the consequences could be before you start reporting a company that provides YOU with a service. Albeit a sometimes ropey one.

Many people have tried constructive communications with NTL and failed due to the arrogance of the company .

If they dont change they will lose customers and your bills will go up or they will go into chapter 11 again.

Trust me its for NTLs own good its like taking medicine to cure a sickness

seems more like assisted suicide to me lol.

I understand your comments, but I dont agree with the actions of reporting NTL to the relevant organisations.
I think it stems from personal gripes with the company and isnt intended for the good of others.

But hey thats my opinion, yours will differ.
I just felt that I wanted to say my piece in this thread and offer at least a bit of balance. :)

I have contacted FACT as ntl appear to promote copyright theft.

I apreciate that any financial imposition levied against ntl will be paid by it's customers in the same way that I apreciate we paid for that damn advert.

What I DON'T apreciate is the thought that turning a blind eye to save yourself a few quid is acceptable!

If you don't want ntl to be finned because your services may become more expensive / upgrades will take longer, how far are you prepared to go?

Will it be OK for ntl to tell people they can go on the net and download movies, music, pornography, where to get the best "anonymizer" software, how to hack other ISPs etc. if it means you get cheaper service and quicker upgrades?

How on earth does breaking copyright law become acceptable just because the offending company is in financial difficulty???

Now, before you mug me off as just a muppet with a grudge.... I had a row with NTL about DPA and was in a position to get ntl a hefty financial penalty, but chose not to. The reason I didn't was simple. I was the only affected person as a result of ntl's DPA breach, no-one else. I asked for an appology and (eventualy) got one. That's all I wanted.

Now all I want (along with FACT) is a public appology in an official press release to clear up the copyright laws and what is / isn't permited as acceptable use.

i agree timewarrior2001

bite the hand that feeds you?

It's not right, but why SHOUT? - shouldn't it be discussed first?

gaz

I 100% support NTL in becoming a larger player in the cable market it is only to assist NTL in being more customer focused.

This will then improve the companies standing and win more customers.

Therefore bills will be cheaper money available for upgrades etc.

Unfortunateley like many people have taken time out like most to suggest improvements.

Really support the company however they only learn by it hitting them in the pocket.

Example CAP therefore cant offer 2meg hit in the pocket

Unfair conditions compared to AOL on the same network about to be hit in the pocket.

misleading advertisements they get hit in the pocket , the cap has probably cost NTL more to contain it than it has saved them on upgrading infrastructure and continues to do so.

Hey you have seen my comments on the CAP in the thread and on that issue I am with you guys.
Especially the AOL apparent favouritism.

I have never once said that infringement of copyright was acceptable. Neither have NTL.
What I think NTL have done is say it like it is, "yes the internet can be used for piracy and indeed some of our customers certainly use it for that means, but there is also other benefits to broadband"

How is telling the truth promoting piracy?
The talk about movies, other than the FACTUAL comment on Spiderman, makes no reference to being able to download copyrighted films does it?
And I am sure most BB adverts from all companies at one time or another have included the line "downlaod movies at the touch of a button".

No thats how you interprit it. Whether or not it was intened that way is of no concern to any of us.

So they should get away with it?

I remember the ASA telling them to stop calling 150Kb BB 'high speed'. Did they? No.

Ntl never learn, I bought BB from them because they told me it was 'unlimited' in respect to downloads, and now we have a cap. I don't want any other unsuspecting customer to be taken in my their totally outrageous advertising.

Tell the authority's, this is the only way they will learn. Hit them where it hurts, and if they continue to do it them hit them again.

As far as I'm concerned, if they think that advertising like this in one breath and tell us not to d/l in another is acceptable then they don't deserve to be running a telecoms company.

If they continue to do this and the authority's put them out of business then GOOD. Someone will be waiting in the wings to take it over. I'm sure it cant get any worse than it is not.

Remember ITV Digital?:mad: :grind: :afire:

Agreed. But, advertising standards prohibit this kind of thing.

The same as Ford arn't allowed to show clips of the Mondeo being hammered down the M4 by some rep flashing at the driver in front. It creates the wrong impression.

Would you be so cool about it if it said "paedophiles downloaded 32GB of child porn in the last week. ntl 1M broadband is here!"
Going by your statements, they are only telling the truth.
It still looks like they are saying it is acceptable, no mater how you phrase it.
Dad, can I use Kazaa to download the latest Britney single?
Well son, millons of people do it all the time.

Quite the opposite, how it is interprited is of major concern to some of us!
Mostly the ones who are P'd at being told not to download more than 1GB per day, then no implimentation, followed by an advert which may apear to promote downloading films, makes a point of advertising the ability to download before the cinema and quote how many millions of films are downloaded.

If nothing else this add condones piracy.
Isn't that bad enough for you?

It is high time that NTL stopped acting as though they are above the law. I don`t give a damn if they get stung by an enormous fine by FACT, although what would really make me smile is if some of the upper management got jail time for it (highly unlikely, I know).

I currently have a DPA dispute going with NTL, and if they end up getting stung from that I have no sympathy for them. All this argument that they are still on shaky financial ground carries absolutely no weight for me. Being a bit hard-up doesn`t mean they can flout the law whenever they wish. NTL have been crapping all over their customers for years, I think it is about time that they got some of it back.

One question for those in here....

I apologise if it seems to be a long winded one, but it needs asking

A customer downloads a song by an artist... say Metallica - Enter Sandman to see if it is the song he wants...
He burns it to CD, at a media cost of 16-20p, he is happy
He is also infringing the law...

A Record company puts out a new CD Single.

Unit production cost for the single is less than a penny per, yet they sell it for £4.00

that's a 4,000% markup...

when you look at things in the way of markups everyone needs to make a profit..... but 4,000%?

the biggest case of robbery is done by the BPI, yet they do it within the law

UPDATE URGENT REQUEST
I have not got any pms with offers of this publication could anyone assist in providing hard copy for evidence.

This is required by trading standards

Original Publication not a copy

Key phrase there would be "within the law"

Besides, manufacturing costs are not the only fugures to look at for CD's.
You need to look at how much these manufacturing comanies invest in research and developement. Think about it.... If a company manufactures CD's to todays standards, but does not think of investing in research & developement, what will they be manufatruing when the format gets better, or more data can go onto a CD?
When CD's first came out, they held no more than 72mins of music or 650M of data.

Now, with that in mind, start to consider this.... Dont you think maybee they pay staff, rent, rates, utulity bills etc.?

Someone having a good mark-up on the legitimate sale of a product is whole heartedly different to someone stealing.

It costs no more than 7p to manfacture 20 Benson & Hedges, add on profits and tax and it's nearly £5. Does that mean it is acceptable for me to go and rob my local newsagent?

Phone the Leeds Weekly News. They will post you a copy if you send them a cheque.

I am willing to pick it up am only 25 mins from leeds this afternoon so if its available will pick it up and drop off with trading standards as suggested .

they just need original copy

Think this time we have got them :D

Will call them and ask for a copy but need to check its genuine,do not want to alert them as they may be part liable

Anyone want to tip off El Reg or Amy @ The Mirror, Russ? :D

I'm sorry, and after reading this thread I really couldn't give two hoots if I get banned for life but -

I HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH A LOAD OF HYPOCRITICAL SANCTIMONIOUS BUNCH OF CODSWALLOP IN MY LIFE!!!!

Hands up all of you who have never downloaded a movie or a album etc? (roll in the tumble weeds.....)


:mad: :rolleyes: :shrug:

Obviously not as eloquently put as Timewarrior (and this must be the first time we have agreed on anything...), but come on - you're all acting like a bunch of Erin Brocovich's.....what on earth do any of you have to gain from doing this? Yeah, good one, get ntl a massive fine. Then see how much upgrading (which would go a long way to getting the 'cap' removed) and price reductions they can afford. You can also wave goodbye to any hope of 2mb.

What I find almost hilarious is Stuart W's actions - wasn't it you that fraudulently uncapped your modem??? :rolleyes:

I say it again - HYPOCRITES

I think it goes further than that. They are using the ability to download movies illegally as a reason to subscribe to NTL's broadband service. They are implying that if you subscribe to NTL then you can quite freely download movies. They make no suggestion that doing so could be (in most cases) illegal - and certainly downloading Spiderman before the cinema release was. I would class this as promoting copyright infringement.

I find it impossible to believe that 400,000-600,000 movies are downloaded from legal sources every day. (Although if anyone knows of such a site where that number of movies could be downloaded legally then let me know...). There are some sites where movies can be legally downloaded (there was a feature in the news a couple of days ago about a UK film that is to be released on the internet as the same time as the cinema release - with DRM restrictions) and so the phrase "download movies at the touch of a button" isn't neccesarily promoting illegal activity. But to suggest you purchase NTL's broadband service to download 400,000-600,000 movies a day, and to download films such as Spiderman before the cinema release is promoting illegal activity.

Duncan

Come On Orangebird

Stop trying to defend NTL this time the advert and the aup conditions contridict each other.

Was only a matter of time before someboday tried to defend the undefendable.

Got em this time :p

That's not the point. I'm not a company promoting my services for illegal activities. NTL are trying to make money by promoting illegal activities. That is the difference.

Duncan

I am not 'defending' them at all - I haven't once said what they're doing is good. It's the hypocrisy I can't stand :afire:

Have you never downloaded a movie or some music?

Sent to bbc news online this morning:

:D

I only have the one copy - it's a free paper so I can just go out and buy some more copies. I may be able to get hold of some more copies from neighbours.

Duncan

It is very much the point. It's about double standards. An awful lot of you seem to have bee's in your bonnets about the cap etc, and incredibly personal vendettas against ntl.

If you can honestly say you have never illegally downloaded from the internet, then I applaude you my friends, fill your boots and take them to court.

Otherwise, take your hypocritical morals and put them where the sun doesn't shine.

When I was a child I used to go scrumping... (stealing fruit / veg from farms) does that mean that I am now unable to report a thief to the police for stealing my car?

Another scenario....

I have been to a public all box and lied to the opperator telling her I had put 10p in the phone but it did not register, thereby making a call at the expence of BT. Does that mean that BT can now bill me £500 per month? after all, I 'stoll' 10p from them, so BT can 'steal' from me via my bill.

Orangebird stop digging they have blown it this time:D

Orangebird, your loyalty to your employer is commendable. There aren't many staff who stick around this forum and keep wading thru all the stuff that gets posted here. But I think you're beginning to take this 'defend ntl at all costs' thing a bit too far. You're right, everyone on this board has done something wrong at some point in their lives, that's human nature. But if that was a reason to stop us addressing other wrongs, we would pretty quickly end up living in anarchy.

Just to address the central point of this thread, do you accept that ntl appears to be suggesting illegal downloads is a good reason to subscribe to its broadband internet service?

British Code of Advertising, Sales
Promotion and Direct Marketing (the rulebook used by the ASA) states:

2.2 All marketing communications should be prepared with a sense of
responsibility to consumers and to society.

4.1 Marketers have primary responsibility for ensuring that their
marketing communications are legal. Marketing communications should comply
with the law and should not incite anyone to break it.

Yes, I fully accept it. And please don't patronise me with regard to my 'loyalty to my employer'.
But I stated in an earlier post, it's not about defending my employer, in fact it has bugger all to do with it. It's the hypocrisy that makes me choke.

I'm not trying to patronize you, I'm bending over backwards trying not to start a slanging match. Please don't assume that everyone on this board is hell bent on causing mayhem and hurling insults.

Nice try Andre, but that is not the point. ntl say you can download a movie (which you can, regardless of the 'cap') as long as you don't download more than 3 in 14 days... - what's underhand about that?

And no, let's not mention email, as it has nothing to do with this thread.

I personally think any response form th elike so fth eBBC is going to be poor.

I doubt they will run and articles on the 6 o clock news because NTL have a poorly worded advert ina local free paper in Leeds.

Come on people live in the freakin real world here.


400,000 to 600,000 movie downloads, what about movie trailers? they are legal, what about the files that people have created, say the transforming car the ****es on a dog?

Some people on here want to find something better to do with their time. Its and advert, they are words on a page, what I refer to is effects on REAL things, I can tell you now, I am going to be more than ****ed at some of you IF I end up not being able to have ANY kind of BB connection. An exageration I have already admitted, but NTL are THE company here, I wont ever get ADSL I liove too far away from the nearest exchange.

Anmd if S.W had illegally uncapped his CM you are damned lucky NTL didnt prosecute you for Fraud, but hey thats OK isnt it, because you defrauded NTL.

Saying that NTL have made a big mistake with an advert is enough.
Being ****ed at the cap is one thing, but as orangebird says, the actions here are not going to help have the cap lifted, any network upgrading done and it will certainly prevent any kind of 2 Mb service.
Make your choices guys, I'd rather have a decent network , no cap and a 2mb service.

What should have been done is a protest to NTL, THEN maybe going to TS. but no thats not how you worked is it? No NTL didnt have a problem with misswording or clarity on services, no you want to take them down for promoting copyright theft.

However if your so intent on taking NTL down, I hope that you will feel happy about it, when the customers turn around and firmly blame YOU for this situation.

I agree. The bloke I wrote to is the technology correspondent for BBC News Online, he doesn't work in TV or Radio. Having worked in the media and PR, I do know a thing or two about correct targeting of potential stories. It's not going to make the TV news but it stands a realistic chance of getting on BBC news online.

Come on OB not like you to be down just got an e-mail from ASA quoting British Code of Advertising, Sales
Promotion and Direct Marketing (the rulebook used by the ASA) states:

2.2 All marketing communications should be prepared with a sense of
responsibility to consumers and to society.

4.1 Marketers have primary responsibility for ensuring that their
marketing communications are legal. Marketing communications should comply
with the law and should not incite anyone to break it.

They have blown it complaint in, everyone please use online form at ASA

Do you have a link?

Well, good for you. Grab yourself a medal.

as requested here

now surprised at you OB you should know not to be surprised with anything NTl do.

Wonder if anyone has contacted Vidzone about it they provide movies but ntl implying that people should download pirated:nono:

Bet they are not impressed waiting for e-mail from them, please feel free to e-maiol them any members of the site :D

FOR THE LAST TIME!!!!!

It's not ntl's advertising that I am unbelievable incensed by! It's everyone's double standards - unless you have never downloaded anything illegally, you have absolutely no right to take the moral high ground on this one.

Don't be surprised Th'eng, nothing at ntl surprises me - I've been here too long......

OK, here are the FACTS I uncapped, got caught and offered to not only explain to ntl techs how it was done, but also offer a solution to stop anyone ever using that method again.
Instead of taking my offer they quoted irelevant sections of the AUP.... To cut a damn long story short, I had my service suspended (which I paid for) and had to sign a document, which I did.
ntl would not have prosecuted me for fraud because they could not prove any of the needed criteria. I uncapped, but they didn't (and don't to this day) know how.

Now, obviously I shouldn't have done it. I have tried to explain to people that I actualy downloaded LESS during my 'uncapped' time than I did under normal service, but as usual most people wouldn't listen and just gave me digs for uncapping.

ntl saw fit to suspend my services as a result of my uncapping.
In much the same way that I see it fit for ntl to re-imburse me for loss of service.

Now, advertising which condones piracy / copyright theft is a wrong thing to do. Wether it is more wrong or less wrong than uncapping a CM I'm realy not sure, but either way it is wrong.
Wrong, wrong... wrong.

I am sick of ntl's "ignore the customer at all costs" attitude and am pleased there are others with the same opinion as me.

I say feck 'em. ntl have messed up AGAIN.

hey I said IF, you know I wasnt saying you were guilty of anything.

No matter what your argument is though I do not support your actions and I will never support them over this advertisement.
I think you have all rushed in and not thought about the implications of your actions.

I will however support the people in the CAP thread.

At this time I bear no grudges and no ill feelings to anyone.

Are you realy serious with this stance OB??

If one does wrong, one must tolerate all others wrong doing?

what a sad, sad world it would be if that were the case. We would no longer have a police force or an army :rolleyes:
Or do you believe that all police officers have never commited any offence?

Do you drive a car? have you ever gone over the speed limit?
If so, you can never complain at lunatics on the motorway at 130mph+. You can't complain about the moron behind you 3 inches from your bumper flashing his lights. :rolleyes:

OB, scroll up, re-read your posts and think about what you are saying.

Hang on a minute, whether or not you have downloaded something you shouldn't from the web .... NTL were still promoting information piracy, copyright theft.

I can't see how I'm being hypocrital.

I do not promote copyright theft, and do not supply.

Right I have just re-read the article.

NTL are not saying anything, what they are doing is quoting Facts about the internet.
They do not say use NTL to illegally download movies, they dont even say Download movies. It says 400,000 to 600,000 movies are downloaded a day. It doesnt even say 400,000 to 600,000 movoies are downloaded using NTL home internet a day.

Then it says that spiderman was available on the net before the cinemas, which is true, so was the Hulk.

can someone show me where it says illegally download movies, I cant see it, can someone show me where it says Use your NTL connection to steal copyright?


well can they?

OB...

If I walk down the road and see a £10 note, pick it up and decide to keep it, that is theft. Steeling by finding I believe.

If I later see an elderly person being robbed in the street, I think to my self "Hmm, I'd love to intervene and stop that thief, but, hey, he's a thief, I'm a thief, so there's nothing I can do".

Well your honor, I saw the men drag the victim into a van and drive off, but didn't say anything because I have, in the past, collected my children early from school and taken them home to be grounded as punishment, so we are both guilty of false imprisonment.... what could I do? I don;t want to be labeled a HYPOCRITE after all.....

You seem to think so - after uncapping your modem, you appear to have been slightly miffed at ntl not accepting your offer of how you did as an apology.....


I have no idea. I'm sure there area dirty cops out there - and any of there actions incensed me as much as this has, I would indeed react as I am now.

Yes, I regularly break the speed limit - but I'm not about to grass up someone just because they have :rolleyes: Let the moron flash his lights instead. All I have to do is slowdown and put the brakes on and he/she will get themselves in trouble, rather than me getting them in trouble.

I am very clear on what I am saying, thank you, and am of the same opinion. You're all hypocrites. :)

*Checks ntl shareprice + customer numbers - wow it's not looking too good is it? Oh hang on, actually it is looking pretty good....

I think in your case sir the saddest part about this whole affair is how much you seem to be enjoying it. You describe yourself on another site as a self-appointed advisor to ntl meanwhile you seem to be on a bit of an ego-trip as far as this matter goes. I remember mentioning to you that you can now take ADSL in another thread, and why aren't you voting with your pocket as you through anticap advised so many others to do? As I remember no response? You even went as far as bemoaning the lower upstream on ntl's 600k service. BT can get you a phoneline in straight away if the point is already there, you can have adsl within 2 weeks. Or does that mean you can't bemoan ntl if you leave, and there goes a big recreational activity.

Just the vibe I think everyone is getting from the language you've used. One of oneupsmanship rather than anything else. Though you should be used to that, enough people joined then ran away from anticap thanks to your ranting, most of them like myself employees willing to have constructive conversation, but a couple of ranty posts from yourself soon ended that trend.

Maybe ntl will get fined lots then we'll see headline 'ntl to cut jobs in Wythenshawe following ASA / FAST / Trading Standards fine - then you'll see how what you do affects real people, especially if they are up in your neck of the woods, and maybe it'll wipe that smug smile off your face.

StuartW:

OK so if you got convicted of theft you'd see fit to sue HMG for loss of pay? You got caught, suspended, and you want ntl to reimburse you for cutting you off. Frankly you are lucky you were put back on at all, let alone the fact what you did was illegal and carries a prison sentence if they'd wanted to take it that far.

For what it's worth I absolutely agree, the advert is completely out of order, and someone in that business unit does deserve a bit of a slapping for it. Just the way certain people are going about this is damn childish, bordering on pathetic.

No need. You have already done it.

Superman available on net before cinema.

Picture this.... Your son comes home from school and calls you a f*cking c*nt and tells you to s*ck his d*ck. This fills you with rage and you demand to know why he is saying these things.... he says "Well, my teachers were telling me about a former pupil at the school who swore a lot, I thought it was a good idea, so I have incorperated it into my vocabulary, you c*nt"
Needless to say you ring the school, who confirm that bad language was the topic of todays lessons.

Of course, you would accept this and let your son carry on with the foul language wouldn't you.

More importantly, you wouldn't do anything about the school teaching kids this stuff without explaining that it is actually wrong because, after all, you have used foul language and wouldn't want to be a hypocrite eh?

Sorry Stuart, you really are scraping the bottom of the 'for instance' barrel now..... :rolleyes:

Sorry, should have explained clearly... I didn't seek to be compensated for the suspension period... I meant the times my CM has gone down for over a week and ntl don't seem interestead in sorting it out.

As for the prison thing, are you sure?? lol
How long is the min / max sentence for uncapping then?

no need to appologise ;) How so?

Same scenario isn't it?

Eh?:shrug:

I am unsure how I Have "already done it".
There must be some kind of invisable wording in that advert that I cannot see.
Show me, i.e Highlight where it says "Join NTL and you can use your connection for copyright theft".

And for your information I am very liberal minded, If my son came home form school swearing, whcih indeed he will one day.
I would simply point out that its ok for him to know these words but he shouldnt really say them too often because its not very nice.
I certainly wouldnt chastise him for doing somehting ALL kids do.

If the article was merely a discussion of what goes on on the internet, there would be no wrongdoing on ntl's part. But it is not merely a discussion. It is in the context of an advertisement, and the reasonable assumption is that anything said in an advert is intended to support the proposition that you buy/subscribe to the product being described. So when NTL advertises its broadband internet, and tells people they should sign up, and then issues statistics about illegal activities as part of that advert (without saying these are illegal and warning you not to do it), we can reasonably conclude that they are inciting people to commit an illegal act. IMHO. But I think the ASA might agree.

Ahh, ask CS for compensation grasshopper and it shall be yours, though only at rate of whatever you pay per day. Higher levels of compensation are reserved for those who pay for SLAs.

Well yes, it's theft, and also violation of Computer Misuse Act, no idea of the penalties involved.

No, it's not. For starters, if my son came home from school with that kind of language, apart from dishing out a clip round the ear, I would also take the responsibility for myself. Any child of mine would know the right and wrong words to use, regardless of what some teacher has told them.

Towny you raised some interesting points there, and I would normally accept them as being good enough, however, I think its wrong. The Advert isnt the best written advert I've seen, no Far from it.

What I contest is that some of the users on here have rushed headlong into this argument and are trying their best to even their personal gripes with NTL. Not only this, but they are also on the other hand demanding NTL spend money to upgrade the network and enable the 2Mb connection speed also to remove the download CAP.

Now the way I see the advert is this:-

Its predominantly an NTL advertisment for BB internet. They then have a side panel seperated from the main advertisement by a border, and within this border it repeats some facts about internet usage as a whole.

The advertisment in my oppinoin is poor, as it doesnt state where those facts came from. But anyone with a ha'peth of intelligence would know that they are not talking solely about NTL home BB connections there.
I am not saying NTL dont deserve a ticking off because the advertisement is poor and doesnt carry T&C small print.

I also dont think reporting NTL to FACT for this matter is appropriate either.

But, assuming you've sworn at some time in your life, doesn't the fact that you tell your son off for the same thing make you a hypocrite too?

I have been working with FACT and FAST for a number of years now and can assure you that this is EXACTLY what FACT need to know about.

Adverts like this WILL promote the downloading of copyrighted material.

I am quite happy to stop moaning about NTL when NTL have some respect for there customers.

Remove the CAP

:D

I will will stop posting on this site and others is that a deal when NTL actually listen and remove the CAP