Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

With recent goings-on within the company it has lead me to consider Unions again. I am not a leftie, flag waving, tools down brothers type :Yikes:, but I am a working class socialist (albeit a right wing one!)
And I don't believe BECTU represent us properly. They where recently at a meeting (as were the ACF) where the working hours of network engineers were changed. There was little or no consultation, or consideration to the affect they may have had on employees.

I have been in a union before (EEPTU), and they did very little to help the workers in recent years. But I have just joined the CWU, If we can get enough members, ntl will have to recognise them. The CWU have just got Telewest to recognise them see..............

http://www.cwu.org/news.asp?step=3&NID=610

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

i'm a manpower munkeh! but lots of us have joined anyway ;)

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I remember when ntl took over cwc and the CWU representatives were apparently waiting outside ntl buildings to sign people up. ntl quickly reacted and announced a partnership with a tame union that would sing their tune.

I was always against unions and their lefty views, and refused to join the one at the cable company I worked for before ntl. When we were bought out by CableTel/ntl we were quietly warned by one of the directors what the ntl managemnt were like, and advised we would be better off keeping our union payments up to date.

I joined after that tip-off and thought even though ntl wouldn't recognise the union they would be very helpfull for any problems with legal representation especially if it was through a work accident etc. I still keep up my payments, and none of the people in the company I currently work with are aware that I am in a union, but one day you never know it may be a good insurance policy.

Especially with a company like ntl :rolleyes:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

BECTU are as much use as a chocolate fireguard.


Andy E
ntl pirate

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Then join up mate

United we stand, divided we fall!

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Whats the monthly cost of the union if you don't mind me asking

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Any union is only as strong as it's members....united we stand, divided we fall

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I would reccomend joining a union, NTL is currently very unstable and no job look's safe.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I think the one I'm in is about £8.30 a month paid by DD.

I just look on it as an insurance policy!

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Mine is - so is my entire depts.... :rolleyes:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

And Stand together we must! They must not be allowed to run rough-shod over us



Mods- any chance this could be a sticky for a while??

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I suppose we could all re-train as Gas engineers :D

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

in this day and age there is no such thing as a safe job. What can a union do when a company wants to make people redundant or outsource job?? NOTHING. Stop wasting your money

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Sorry but in my opinion, Unions are have no power nowadays especially in a company like ntl.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I have to agree, the power of the Unions is nowhere near to what it was. But I believe thats not a bad thing remember the 1970's!
BUT, there are certain things ntl do, that are not strictly legal or by the book.
A Union can't prevent redundancies, but they can stop matixes being massaged to get rid of people they don't like as opposed to non-productive staff/jobs for the boys

I don't think a Union is the "be all and end all" but, they serve a purpose, legal advice and representaion being two things they can help with.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Therein lies the problem, as i'm sure you and Escapee will hold testament to.

When selection via matracies is done, it is not the best candidates for the role that get the job but who's mates with the selecting manager.

It has always been my position that the selection process should be done by a 3rd party.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Seriously, an employee of a company that is going through such a prolonged phase of reorganisation should seriously consider joining a union, or at least see if they can insure themselves against redundancy.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I agree that unions have very little say, but they have helped in a number of cases to my knowledge where employees have been treated unfairly in ntl. I think one case is still ongoing, and the company has taken a different view when they know an employee has legal representation from a union.

matricies are a problem when used in conjunction with work stats when it comes to engineers, because it often affects the older skilled workers who are given all the difficult/fiddly jobs that take a lot of time but have least affect on clearing stats. It is often possible for the best engineer in a department to look like the worst engineer if management are only relying on stats.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

There's no way to insure yourself against redundancy, even with the backing of a union. If the jobs not there, it's not there and that's the employers call, not the unions. Unions don't control what situations you find yourself, only advise and assist on how to deal with the situation. Especially when it comes to privately owned companies. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aside from those employees on the Broadcast t&cs, ntl don't legally have to recognise any union anyway... :shrug:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I beg to differ, have a look here

Some companies will offer income protection in the event of involuntary redundancy, although there are stringent checks made and usually a waiting period of at least 30 days before protection kicks in.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

ndancy insurance I think Toto meant insurance as in Norwich Union etc ... lots of companies will sell you income protection policies that cover redundancy as well as long-term sickness:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...UK%7CcountryGB
____________

edit

aha, I was right :D

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Well as long as you're alright (not sure to what your apparent sarcasm applies)

You also say: "If the jobs not there, it's not there and that's the employers call, not the unions."

Hmm. We're talking people's lives here (and of a management with not the finest decision making track record; many might argue the jobs are indeed there). From reading your posts on this and other threads you appear to believe companies can do pretty much what they want in pursuit of profit. I beg to differ. Whilst the power of unions has been severely limited by this and previous governments (whilst increasing employer rights), collective action, bargaining and negotiation remains important. As others have pointed out, unity is strength, division is weakness.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I don't think it was intended in that way.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

No, nor do I, that's not in keeping with Orangebirds usual posts, and I think that in this day and age, nobody can say their job is 100% safe.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I'd be grateful if somebody could enlighten us as to the intent

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis
I would reccomend joining a union, NTL is currently very unstable and no job look's safe.
_________________



Mine is= unsafe
So is my deps= unsafe

I think everyone's read ing it wrong. Read in context to the above quote she is saying her job, and her dept are unsafe

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Can we please refrain from making personal comments about individual member(s). Thanks.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I think people are taking that the wrong way, no-ones job is safe long term in ntl. Some posting on this board and elsewhere in the past have had a bit of an attitude and considered that ntl would never make them redundant by toeing the company line, most of those have dissapeared along the way with many others that have been made redundant.

Praising you employer is no guarantee of job security!

I am sure Orangebird feels she could also be on the list at anytime, I sometimes fail to understand her views but I think her reply is being taken the wrong way this time.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

NO jobs are safe in NTL at the moment :(

In the past year or so I've seen our Call Centre (the best performing in the country) and our FMR departments get canned (approx 150 jobs). Some staff managed to transfer to 2nd line, Surveillance or Retensions..but after Mondays bombshell we're not 100% sure these jobs are safe :shocked:

We also learned on Monday that the Head Of Operations in Teesside Steve Brown had been put on 30 days notice :Yikes: This guy has flogged his guts out over the past year turning Teesside into the streamlined, efficient unit that it is, and seamlessly migrating the entire countries 2nd Line & Surveillance functions over to Teesside. This is the way NTL thanks him for his hard work.. :confused:

Good luck for the future Steve (and to all other staff that have/may lose their jobs)

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Yeah, I heard he coped the flak, I also hearded he was a decent guy and has been crapped on from a great height (Sounds Familiar)

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I know many managers were on 30 days last month, some are used to it as it seems to happen at least once a year for them. I wonder how some of them stay positive and keep smiling. :shocked:

I was told PeterM has been on 30 day notice quite a few times himself.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Some people struggle with the english language, let alone understanding the meaning of the message when its in text as opposed to a real conversation. As you so rightly point out, unions are worthless these days and have been for a long time. Why support a worthless cause with your own cash :confused:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Astounded to hear that about Steve, known the guy a while, definitely got the right ideas. Am making enquiries.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

They are completely worthless, thats a tad harsh. As has been said they are only as strong as the members.

[Sarcasm] But hey, when they get me a 30% pay increase 70 days holiday etc dont moan when you don't get the same!! [/Sarcasm] :)

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

"Originally Posted by dezzo
I suppose we could all re-train as Gas engineers"

Glad you find the time to joke about such a bad subject, takes your mind of the <removed> company you work for?

Like I said before I am sorry for all those who lose thir job's because of this and I hope your skills are wanted elsewhere.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

It does not matter how hard you work or how loyal you are you are just a number which can be easily disposed of.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

That is so true, when the chips are down everyone will look after number one. The managers prime motive in the currect situation is to survive and look after himself.


The same has happened in South Wales last month, I think the head of Operations (not a good guy in this case) and his sidekicks were in the same situation. Needless to say when his job was secure he secured the job of his sidekick the worst manager in the region. This is a guy who when a technician was given warnings about being lazy and disciplined by his manager. He is a guy who used to sit around the headend all day and all the other techs used to complain about him. After being given a good dressing down, for not doing his job he went off sick with stress, he returned and was shortly promoted to supervisor!

This guy has the cheek to call the techs lazy :td: They say poacher turned gamekeeper is the worst. The guy is hated by just about every tech there, I was told either a manager or senior tech went into see him on behalf of the techs. He said why dont they come in cos my door is always open. The guy said "Cos they think you are a ba****d" he apparently said "I'll show them what a ba****d is they can look out"

That just about sums up the quality needed to get on as a manager in ntl :rolleyes:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Please will members be aware that off-topic comments are subject to removal.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

From what I remember, this thread was supposed to encourage debate regarding the CWU? :angel:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I think the CWU is probably the best of the bunch for anyone in telecoms now. Some may say unions are a waste of money but there are some who have had grievences sorted out and as a result are financially much better off. I know that is the case with one ntl employee in South Wales, the few quid a month has been paid over many times for this person who was being treated very unfairly!

I think any union is a good insurance policy, but I must admit the worst ever pay rise I got was when a union negotiated it. What happens when a union does this, is everyone is treated fairly :rolleyes: the lazy useless ones got the same as the guys who were working their butts off :mad:

Swings and roundabouts I suppose.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Nice one, have a greenie. :D

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I think you should ask my mum, she's the regional convener for Unison (NHS) and she has won no end of legal cases for employees. Without their union membership they'd be much, much worse off. :erm:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I've been in the CWU for 35 years and they have represented me very well. Industrial injuries, driving accidents, and representation at work are just some of the benefits I have had from the union. However it is still down to people's own choice if they join or not.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

It's £4.99 a month by DD. Well worth having in the present climate! You are just a number to Ntl. (or a bean). Of course if the CWU ever do get recognised the subscription will go up slightly. ;)

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Seeing I'm going to be made redundant in 2 weeks time then yes it does take my mind off the company I work for.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Sorry to hear that, good luck- There is life after ntl.......... I hope!

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

dezzo sorry to hear and no problem if it helps you be happy :)

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I too am in a union where I work and they dont seem to have much clout. I can never quite forget that the company is paying the wages of the union reps that we have and when it comes to crunchtime for whatever be it wage rises etc the union always seem to agree with the company in the end. I am sure that my union is simply humoured by my firm to be seen to be doing the done thing.(the firm that is!). They're subscription I also notice seems to be creeping up towards the 10 pound a month mark too but we never seem to get any notification of this. I think I am going to unsubscribe because lets face it, if my company makes me redundant theres not a lot the union can do! :rolleyes:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Each to their own i suppose. The 'company' pays my wage as well but it doesn't stop me from fighting and winning cases that cost the 'company' money. It doesn't stop me from making sure my membership gets a decent payrise each year. It hasn't stopped me from making sure the 'company' pays over and above the statutory redundancy pay. It hasn't stopped me from getting extended benifits for people being made redundant. But of course, I've only done this for Union members. Because that's what they pay their subs for.

Unions have been responsible for Pay increases, better conditions, shorter hours, paid holidays etc. They don’t just happen. Neither are they freely volunteered by a ‘charitable’ employer. They are all won by union negotiators. You may be dissatisfied with your pay – but, think what it would be like if there was no union to press for improvements.

A union is only as strong as it's membership. If you have many active members the 'company' take notice. If you don't, then, why should they bother? Because the people who work for the 'company' seem not to be worried......

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Unions, in my experience are a pile of horse ****. Not worth the bother if you ask me. Too many self-important busybodies.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

got my welcome letter today from the cwu. it's worth £4.99 just to have someone for advice if needed. could you imagine the look on my managers face if i asked for the union rep to sit in on my next appraisal etc..

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

When I worked for BT our union rep in the CWU done a bloody good job!
Herself and the centre manager hated each others guts!! which I guess is a good thing lol she did fight for us all.....

They still closed the centre down tho ;(
Good ol BT!!

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I agree that in general a union is a very good thing, I joined a number of years ago whilst working for a company being taken over by another that wouldn't recognise unions. I felt it was well worth the money every month to think as an insurance policy should I become badly treated by the company, we had a few s**g off the unions and claiming they weren't helped by the union rep, but generally in those cases the individual more than deserved what the company did to them.

I do however think union negotiations for things like pay rises, are more effective in large organisations where there are large numbers of employees doing the same job. ie: Call centre operatives.
In a large company with a small number of employees carrying out a different task, your issues seem to get lost whilst negotiating issues for the majority. I was also in the situation a number of years ago where I was getting a good wage rise every year, as it was based on performance and productivity. Some of the lazy employees complained and the union got involved in the pay rise negotiations, that year the company spread the pay rise equally, I got the worst percentage rise I had ever had and the lazy ones got exactly the same.

That's my only criticism of unions being involved in negotiations of that sort, they tend to benefit the lazy employee at the expense of the good worker.

But in general to unions :tu:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Well Said!! :tu:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I know of 3 or 4 cases within Ntl where the company has backed down once the CWU were involved, mainly health and safety issues. I think it's worth the subscription just to get the legal backing, should you need it. It's much harder for them to push you around if somone is quoting employment law to them. It's a pity they can't do much about pay until they become recognised, the pay scales in ntl are a joke, there are Senior engineers being paid less than engineers just because the latter joined the company at a later date on a higher basic wage and I'm talking quite large disparities here. The gap gets wider each year as well. Being a long serving employee counts for nowt, a bit like banks giving new savers higher interest rates than loyal customers. Ntl management don't understand the meaning of the word loyal.
I'm not a bean I'm a free man !!:shrug:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

:rolleyes: The wages problem has been in the company from almost day one CableTel, I was working for a company bought out by CableTel shortly before CableTel bought NTL. My personal problem was having a job title "Central Support Engineer" that meant I was responsible for engineering support to all the small headends the company had around the company, and responsible for repairing headend/network equipment to component level, and designing new equipment to be used on the network.

The problem when CableTel/NTL took over was my pay, I was getting about 16K in those days and a non-sign written fully expensed company car. ntl found themselves in a dilema, they could either match my pay to other people carrying out similar tasks in the company by increasing my pay by at least 8K a year, or they could change my job title to Technician to match my pay.

I wont offer any prizes for guessing! :rolleyes:
Yes they changed my job title to technician, and removed my staff status and eligibility to enhanced redundancy entitlement. I was the only employee out of 130 that was affected by the problem. I did complain and got told by an ntl manager, sign the new contract or be sacked. I did not sign and told him to do whatever he saw fit, this resulted in a 1K increase in my salary to compensate for loss of redundancy benefits.
I internally transfered shortly after into an ntl network Technician position, I was earning about the same as the other techs, but a few other techs who transfered under the same circumstances were earning a good 5K less than I was, and the only reason was because they transferred internaly and couldn't get more than a 5% rise.

The 5% rise caused many problems for the better employees looking for promotion, I applied for a more senior position and was successfull. I was up against a couple of external candidates and was told I was the best for the job, however the pay scale for the job started higher than the position I was already in, it would of meant a 7% rise just to get me on the bottom of the ladder, but on the other hand one of the number 2 choice for the job an external candidate could be taken on at the top of the pay scale.
This was the big problem, technicians/engineers were being taken on to replace the good ones leaving, and in many cases they were no better than the existing ones ntl already had. They were however being paid about 3K a year more to attract them to the company, and to rub salt in the wounds were being trained by the lower paid existing technicians.

I had a good friend who also transferred under similar circumstances, and he was getting about 4K less than the next lowest paid person in the department, his boss admitted that he was one of the best workers and tried his best by getting him regular 6 monthly rises in an attempt to bring him inot line with everyone else. This backfired when he had a change of manager and the new one went back on the promises and even threatened him with disciplinary action if he didn't take on extra duties such as call out. Things got very bitter as he was earning an about 7-8K a year less than the average person on the same grade, he refused to go on callout until it was sorted, as every hour of overtime would be paid at a lower rate than anyone else.

It got sorted when HR realised he would take it as far as he needed, and would not back down. I wrote a letter on his behalf, and HR who had previously told him "Sign the contract and we will sort the pay issue out seperately" had the cheek to say the pay was sorted and they had been working on it for a while. :rolleyes:

The pay problem for Technicians/Engineers in the Headend/Switch/Field has always existed, I have always thought it's down to the way the company/senior managers (including HR) feels these employees are like something stuck to the bottom of their shoes.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Cabletel always were poor payers, I worked for them for about a year & a Half on shift (the shift rates were cr*p but I needed a job quickly!) at the time the annual bonus was included as part of your salary, not extra to as it is today. So you couldn't really quote your annual salary because you didn't know what it would be!! I believe a lot of yankee companies used to operate like this at the time, Nynex for one. The major problems came when they bought the consumer Co division off Cable & Wireless Comms, C&W were really good payers (and still are), this meant a lot of ex CWC staff were being paid much more than "old" Ntl staff and that disparity still exists 4 years down the line!
The "management" didn't like staff to compare notes on salaries (and still don't), saying it was a private & personal matter for each individual, they seem to operate on a divide the staff and rule basis, they don't want to address the problem because they know it would cost them too much wonga. :erm:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I remember the old bonus they used to call it PRP, when we asked questions about tax due to the government relaxation on PRP, we found out it was not an approved PRP so we had to pay full tax on it. I think the way they held back part of your salary for the quarter was a scandal, and I'm not sure if it was entirely legal the way it was conducted. I heard the legalities was the reason they quickly did away with it!

It was a great idea, we will not pay you 10% of your wages and will give it you back after we have claimed interest on it for 3 months, if you are lucky we might give you a slight bonus for the privelidge of us witholding it. I remember the first bonus I had was good, and then they moved the goalposts so it was impossible to achieve the targets! :D

Do you also remember the other chestnut....Pool Hours :D

I know there was hell to play when I brought up in a meeting with HR about wage differences between people in other regions and even in the same department, they were annoyed that wages were being discussed and as you said they thought someones salary was a personal thing. They tried to sort out the wages on one occassion, our regional manager gave us a powerpoint presentation and we had already been tipped off about it earlier in the day from another region. He took one page out of the presentation because it showed the proposed salary scales for the different levels of techs, we caused a big fuss and he eventually showed us, not one of us were in the scale for our grade.

I remember they assessed each persons knowledge, and it was all being controlled by Alfredo and another guy who's name escapes me. He was a right b*****d always on everyones back, but eventually worked himself up so much he left the company because of stress. :D
Anyway, Alfredo or this other guy marked mine and another Headend Tech's scores down, becaue we had higher scores than their glorious perfect headend techs in Glasgow. We had both been in the cable industry for 10 over 10 years, and were scored fairly.

We lost money because they didn't want anyone from Wales being paid higher than anyone in England or Scotland!

The unfair pay scales still go on in ntl, it's something they will never sort out, and it was also one of the reasons I left. There was one guy on exactly the same grade as me but earning about 4K a year more, I had about 13 years experience and he had joined the company as an installer about 4 years previously.

He's still there, and my ol boss is stuck with him in his team now. ;)

Funny though, it was the other way around according to the Broadcast guys, they reckon the long term employees were much better off financially.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

When I worked at the BBC from 90-96 you *had* to be in the union (BECTU). Not from a company point of view but it was a bit like being the odd one out with your colleagues if you did not.

Since Maggie declared broadcasting 'the last bastion of restricted practice' in the 90's, the union have had less of a strangle hold on the industry to the point now they are a waste of time in my view.

Gone are the days where the unions could kill a channel for the day. Which is good.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I agree some unions did abuse their power in the old days but now the pendulum has swung the other way, the company can ask you to do something, however unreasonable it may be, and you have no defence at all. If you don't comply you are out, end of story. The terms & conditions that unions have fought for for decades are being eroded all the time. Perhaps you would prefer a return to Victorian work practices? :rolleyes:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Agree unions help make work places a safter/better place to work.

In early 90's, the BBC introduced a thing under John Burt called Producers Choice. This resulted in a hell of amount of employees getting the boot because they did not reach enough 'points' on being a good employee. BECTU was just ignored a lot of colleagues got their cards.

Since 96 all broadcasters I have worked for, do not recognise unions.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I totally agree with you injuneer!!

As i said when I started this thread, I am not a "typical" Union advocat (please have spell check installed). But there have been a few goings on recently that I believe, if we were represented by a Union, they could not have happened in the manner that they did.
Examples;
1,When my working hours were changed on the 17th Jan from 9-5 to 8-4, I was not told on the 17 Dec, as is required by law, I was told on the 8 Jan.
2, I have been recently informed I will not be paid overtime for "project work" anymore but recieve "time-of-in-lieu" (Can't pay the mortgage with it, bummer!). There was supposed to be 30 days notice, there wasn't.

I have never recieved anything in writing from HR regarding either of the above two examples.

I dont for one second believe the Union could have prevented either from happening, BUT, it would have been done properly and to the letter of the law. The Company at the moment ride rough shod over their workers completley unchallenged, this cannot go on, and must be nipped in the bud!.
The only way I see of doing this (apart from leave!) is to get the required 51% to join the CWU. The fact you are in a Union will make them think twice about cutting corners when it comes to Employment law.
So I say to all the sceptics out there, give them (CWU) a chance. Join up (you can always cancel your subsciption), lets get the required percentage and see if anything changes.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I was out on the beer last night with one ntl "happy chappy" :rolleyes: and was in contact with a few more about non-related ntl things yesterday, they all seem to be a bit more pi**ed off than usual!

I think the big problem for the employees affected by the contract changes, was that "shifty ntl" did them region by region in stages. I know when they shafted the guys in Wales, and I mentioned it on this forum, someone from another region deinied my claims that it was going on at that time. (Not you)

I think ntl often use the divide and conquer method to break people into smaller groups, so they can walk over them without too much fuss. As soon as they have walked over the first group, they then use the excuse to the next group that complains that "Well so and so region accepted these conditions without all this fuss"

Unless you guys can get together across all regions and effectively communicate what the company is doing, there's very little chance of kicking up enough fuss to cause them a problem. The good thing now, is the jobs marketplace seems to be picking up, so voting with your feet could hopefully soon be an easier option.

If you were getting paid overtime and it had become the norm, it is an unacceptable change to your conditions if they stop it. I thought that amazing, but heard a story on the radio about such a situation where a company stopped overtime, and an employee went to court and claimed a breach of contract. I was amazed but the guy won, as the overtime had become a regular function of the job, I also understand that someone who works overtime cannot refuse across the board to work any overtme again.

It works both ways, but sadly in ntl wages, conditions and perks are always altered in the companies favour! :(

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

ok - haven't really had time to read through all post so apologies If this has been covered already.... but have you ever been a member of a union, or seen the positive outcomes that union representation can bring about?

Even if the union is not recognised - they will protect their members by offering legal advice and assistance. They can attend disciplinaries or argue your case should you have any gripes or problems (contract changes, alterations to your job role etc..) with the job.

I am a member of CWU - and I feel safer knowing I have a safety cushion to fall back on should I need to bite the bullet myself at any time. It appears that the vast majority of people here who argue the point that unions are useless are not members themselves, nor have any real knowledge behind the power of a union. It is important to remember that a union is only as strong as it's members and companies, no matter how big, see this as more of a threat than a person acting on their own. There is an apathetic view amongst people that needs to change instead of just sitting on your hands and waiting for the worst to happen - you need to get in there first.

I am not here to lobby or advertise unions in general - but simply to say that it is recommended you research unions and sign up with a union who holds the best track record (and has a good reputation among members). To me - £4.99 is peanuts compared to what could happen without them. The more people to sign up to a union - then the more powerful you and your union become. Unions have moved on a long way since the "strike, strike" attitude of the 70's!

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

What do they mean by not recognising unions?

If a union isnt recognised whats still to stop a mass strike?

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Give us a good old 1970s style strike, They where good!

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I will not join a union for 1 simple reason. I will not pay money to a union and have part of it given to the labour party.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I think you can opt out of the 'political contribution'. (Not that I'm particularly advocating union membership, BTW).

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Yes, that sticks in my throat too, BUT, I (and the well being of my family) am more important than my morals or my political leanings

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

so you would essentially put politics over your potential job security?

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Sorry but i cannot give money to that party or any other. Now if the union could state in writing that not a penny of my money was spent on politics then i might consider. and it would have to be in writing.

But as the unions in this country fund Labour "if they fund others then they are included" i cannot see them not spending some of my money on politics.

Why should money i give to a union to help fight a members corner be used to fund politics.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I do see where you are coming from, as I loath both the Labour Parties (The Red flag waving one and Tony the Tory one), But my family come first, I would kill for my children, so giving 50p to Labour isn't much in comparison for a little peace of mind when dealing with the likes of ntl.
Incedently, do we (ntl) still have an HR dept, as they are becoming increasingly absent?

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

But you live in the UK right...?


Meaning everything you do is related to politics. VAT, Council tax, Wages Tax..... all goes towards the governemt whether you like this or not. It's an everyday fact of life mate....:sleep:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

:nono:

Big difference as some of your examples have obvious flaws, ie VAT, Council Tax, Tax etc is mandatory wherby paying or subscribing to a Union is voluntarily.

Go back 20 years and remember how unions were shafted by the Government with all sorts of underhide tactics to get their money.

Anyhows I will cease now as we are drifting slightly :notopic:

:D

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

It wasn't intended to be specific to mandatory or voluntry tax, but instead a reminder that more or less everything we do is for the benefit of the government.

oh yeah... also a good idea - let's get back on topic! ;)

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I would just like to point out the factual errors in this comment. Teesside does not have the entire countries Surveillance function. In fact that role has been hyped up which may be a deciding factor in why we now have abscence of Mr Brown.
I do not doubt that there was a cause to fight for and admirable job was done too, but when a person fails to communicate internally company wide and empire build you will realise why on this occassion he was given the puch. Maybe now Teesside may co operate with the rest of the world and I hope not at the expense of other jobs.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Wow - that post was almost 6 weeks ago :eek:

Anyway - :welcome: to the site.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Aye, the republic of Teesside.

This is where the seat of power of COBI lies. The MD of COBI was originally MD of ntl:Home North East. The Director of Field Ops of COBI was originally Director of Field Ops in ntl:Home North east, the Director of COBI Design and Civils Ops was - thats right - Head of Design and Civils in ntl:Home North East.

There's only two ways of doing things in COBI, the Teesside way or the Teesside way.

Because they did things SOOOoooo much better than you mere mortals that worked for other cablecoms bought by ntl.

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Thanks geezer, yeah I know I'm a little slow off the mark!!

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

This underlines the area that always pi**ed me off about ntl, the empire builders gain power and move everything into their own region and appoint their own Kronies. The ones that have had their noses put out of joint then keep their heads down hope to survive redundancy and wait for the next bout of confusion (Sorry I mean re-org) and then make their move to build their empire and staff it with their own. All it takes is for one of the managers to get a sympathetic ear of the new appointed director for that division and they are suddenly top man, nothing to do with ability. A similar thing has happened recently with managers redundancies, a couple of managers who were on 30 day notice ganged up (sorry teamed up) and made their case to keep their jobs, but get rid of the third manager, the director in question follwed their advice and got rid of the one who was most use to the company.

It's been an ongoing cycle for many years in ntl, it was once Huddersfield, then Surrey and later Glasgow having the networks power. IMHO this sort of thing has been the big killer for morale in the networks department (COBI) The same happened with planning when all the jobs were lost in wales to keep people in jobs in the midlands.

This will never end in ntl, it's an ongoing survival with managers building empires to surround themselves by as many people as possible, all in the hope that they will look important and only loose a percentage of the people below them when redundancies happen. I know it was a few years ago now, but one department had contractors sat around doing nothing. They were being kept on to use when there was the next round of redundancies, to save full time employees in the cuts.

The politics in ntl stink :(

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

I agree with Escapee, a lot of Ntl's problems are due to empire builders. Having worked for Cabletel & CWC in the past, though it pains me to say it, CWC management (ex-Mercury) seemed to be more capable than Cabletel management. A lot of them stayed on with Cable & Wireless when the Consumer Co division was sold to Ntl. (except the bad ones who went with it!).
Management styles today are all about quantity not quality, it's all part of the dumbing down of Britain. :erm:

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

Yes, I heard from some of the guys working for CWC business, that useless managers from that division were offloaded onto ntl when they bought the consumer co division. :D

They said managers were moved over to the consumer co division, even though they had never worked in that division or had any involvement with it!

Re: Attention-All NTL Staff.
 

CWC was far better run than this ntl shambles! For a start there was proper budgetary control, something ntl STILL can't do. There wasn't any "Knee Jerk" management, which is rife in ntl.
All in all the existing management is crap, and this results in the staff being treated like crap!
The upper levels of management should hang their collective heads in shame, and, if I was a major shareholder I would be asking for them to go. They have taken a perfectly running, profit making CW comms and Fukin screwed it up :Yikes:

As regards to empire building, that has, and always will go on, not just in ntl but in most companies. And if the guy doing it is a decent manager there isn't a problem, but, within ntl they are few and far between.
In Nynex you had Portsmouth/Solent. They think and still do that everything they do is better, and Sussex, Ashford and Surrey are inferior (lol, we have seen your noise floors/flap lists!!). Itââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s gone on within all the cable companies because the management are relatively new/naÃÃâ€*’¯ve. This is why CWC where different, they had an established structure.

As for the future, god help us :Yikes: :Yikes: :Yikes: