Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4182109.stm

Now this really annoys me. Any building in the area which puts up a flag pole requires planning permission from the council which I think we can all agree is common sense if those are the rules.

So when a pub is ordered to take down a 'rainbow' flag (used as a symbol of gay and lesbian 'pride') as it had not sought planning permission, it is deemed "deeply offensive to lesbian and gay people"!!

Political correctness 1, common sense nil.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

Agreed there Russ, now if they had taken consideration of the local people into thought, and got permission from the council they would have a leg to stand on perhaps.

But seeing as they have just installed the pole, and raised that flag, the council has every right to say take it down. But using the feeble excuse of "its a attack on gay and lesbian rights" sort of politically correct rubbish is just stupid. And shows the people who plan these things are not professional and are just being childish.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

What about the gay flag being offensive to straight people. The PC brigade hadn't thought of that!

PC annoys me, there's no such thing for starters. The whole PC brigade is inherently un-PC.

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I have to admit, I personally don't see why Ken Livingstone has a problem with Westminster Council doing this. After all, they were following their planning laws (any council is perfectly within it's rights to ask that any structure without planning permission be removed - gay symbol or not), and IMO, he has far more important things to worry about than a mere symbol (which is all any flag is).

When he has sorted out crime, traffic, health provision and various other things, he can then start moaning about minor stuff.

BTW, don't get me started on the PC brigade. I personally believe that all people are equal. I do not believe one group of people is generally any better than any other for whatever reason. I certainly don't agree with the discrimination practiced by many PC types (even by positively discriminating for one group, you may be discriminating against another group, and in these instances, any discrimination is wrong).

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

What :eek: you mean he hasn't already sorted those out? I am disgusted with his slackness :erm:

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However the rules themselves are nonsensical.

How *exactly* is putting a flagpole on a building a "structural change"??

Knocking out a wall or building an extension is structural, a flagpole is cosmetic.

This just sounds like some jobsworth with a little bit of power deciding to exercise their ego to show how important they are.

"Awkward for the sake of being awkward"? Yep, I can agree with that.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

Whether you agree with them or not, rules are rules and procedures are to be followed. The establishment in question has not done this so the council has rightly told them to remove the flagpole. The 'jobsworth' in this would be the people who see it as some kind of attack on gays and lesbians.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

:rofl:

You know what I mean though. He has more important stuff than a flagpole to worry about..

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It is rather annoying that local councils and goverments find the little things and make a molehill out of them, yet permit more hurtful subjects to be ignored such as public transport, anti terrorism equipment, hospitals,schools we all know drill.

What is going to stop them doing this though, I mean they are just taking the easiest road to there pay check and sod the country, and Tories will be worse, if they are anything like there last term in power. :erm:

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

Putting a flagpole up, well first they are generally tall and unweildy, they are also pretty heavy.
Second if you attach it to a building then you are changing the way a load is applied to the wall or roof.
E.g. A wall is designed to take the weight of the floor / roof etc and distribute it downward to the foundations. If you attach a flagpole to that wall you are now creating a force that is pulling that wall sideways, a pressure that could lead the wall to bow in high winds and pull the building down.

Planning rules benefit us all, if a council starts ignoring breaches, then enforcement gets harder and more breaches occour.

Whats the problem here, why can they not just apply for PP and put it back up. Nobody has said they will be denied PP.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

:idea: Found a place for Kens flag pole :Yikes:

Bend over Ken :D

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

Oh if only !!

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

:rofl: :disturbd:

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

there should be a number i can call 24/7 and order a group of heavily armed people to go slap silly people in power

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

like a rentokill for stupidity. ;)

Snag is we would loose most of the goverment and there would be BMW cars parked and dumped everywhere, .. :D:angel:

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

Not to mention Vauxhall novas and piles of "Bling" from Elizabeth Duke..

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Woah there, nobody's called a general election quite yet... :erm: :D

And let's not forget, planning law is enforced by local councils, not central government. And the elected councillors rarely have anything to do with enforcement notices, the unelected officers handle that sort of thing. The politicians normally only get involved when there's a decision to make, such as whether to grant planning permission (assuming these people stop whingeing about their hurt feelings and apply for it).

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

quote of the day. total inspired, comedic, spot-on brilliance.

have a rep.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

There are lots of rules and regulations that we may consider "awkward" or administered by "jobsworths" but it does not get away from the reality that they exist and need to followed and just becuase you're gay (or any other perceived type of minority) you are not entitled to special treatment.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

Why would a gay flag be offensive to straight people? The reason the 'PC Brigade' hasn't thought of that is because most of them probably don't even know that there is a flag that represents the gay community.

At the end of the day, if you require planning permission, then you require planning permission, and there's not a lot you can do about it. However, the fact that, having had to remove the 'offending item', it is being seen as offensive to the specific community is rather far fetched - why does the flag require a flag-pole anyway? Can't it just be displayed on a wall or something?

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

Sir, have a green one for being today's voice of reason :D

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

Agreed that post should win a award. :) A greeny shall complement it though for now.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

I never said that anyone was "entitled to special treatment" but making a big deal out of a little flagpole just strikes me as petty.

And as for those rules "needing to be followed", pardon me if I beg to differ.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

There are times when, whether you agree with them or not, you must play by the rules.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

Reading the papers today on this subject, the buildings are in Soho and are listed, so you need PP to do pretty much anything to them (e.g paint them a different colour), so what is Red Kens problem.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

If I remember my planning regulations correctly (and it's been some time since I had to cover this sort of thing as a journalist), flagpoles are considered as signage when used at commercial premises, and all signage is subject to planning control - even more so when the building in question, or its locality, is subject to special protection as appears to be the case here.

I have seen what happens when there is little or no planning control over commercial signage, just look at any town in the USA. It is a complete mess. Planning control results in a better environment for everyone, visually or otherwise, and while I accept that it may appear to be petty when reduced to the minutae of an individual case like this, it does serve a greater overall purpose.

As a public servant, and the former leader of a local authority, I am quite sure that Red Ken is entirely aware of all this and is merely indulging in a little populist politicking by wading into this situation.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

And there are also times when you should say "stuff the rules".

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Yes, I'm sure many a murderer and rapist has said that in their time.

Of course, I'm not trying to equate this situation with crimes as serious as that.

However would you be happy if you became dependant on the government for any reason at all (unemployment benefit, calling the police etc) and they said "stuff Graham"?

One of the conditions of living in Britain is that you play by the rules, like them or not.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

I was going to give this thread a wide berth as I regard it as a non story really. But I just had to comment on that remark Russ. Why did you feel the need to make such a blatant reductionist comment that you then retracted. What a waste of time. :rolleyes: :dozey:

The company should have requested PP and didn't, they probably will not and get it. End of story.

Obviously nothing better to write about this week so they thought they'd fill the pages with some guff.

If the news agencies wanted a "poofy" story then lets have something with a bit more backbone like equality for gays over pensions or next of kin, rather than a non story that causes people like Russ (and most of the posters in this thread) to fall off their perch to trying to get their words of distaste out.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

I used that comment to say that someone coming out with 'stuff the rules' does not justify their actions. I did not retract it, I just used it as an extreme example.

Usually they do run stories on equality matters, however I guess this week there was nothing on that matter worth reporting upon. In the above story I'm sure it would have gone unnoticed had it not been 'Red Ken' making comments.

And would you define 'people like Russ'? Not sure what you're trying to suggest by that but I'll say had the council shown blatant descrimination based on sexuality then I'd have been behind you all the way (in the non-sexual sense of course :erm: ) however this is simply not the case here.

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

But why do that? To me that's a blatant sign of embelishment that really has not need to be there. Like you said you're not comparing it, its a comment thats not a comment so why include it? You included it because you think it gives more credibility to your argument that "rules is rules" whereby it actually makes you look silly. Sorry. :(


Agreed, but even so it's still a non story, so why have so many posters on here spat their dummy out? Surely there's more important types of discrimination to be worried about if thats your "bag".

It wasn't a description of a minority group (heaven forbid as you;d all probably go around complaining about yourselves and how unfair it is you get your own name :p: ) it was a description of people who generally have the same reaction around here :) :

A sniff of the word minority and you're all there on your little soap boxes banging on about equality for all. It's generally over non story's that really should be in the news. My point is that you guys get so aerated over pathetic issues it makes the rants and complains meaningless, surely there must be more worthwhile causes/incidents for you to complain/campaign about?

*looks to Marina, bangs chest and drags his knuckles while shouting in a Tarzan voice "AAAAAAAAAAAgggggggggggaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaa ahh". :angel:

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

Who said anything about equality for all? My point was (and still is) that to make an issue out of something which clearly is not there is asking for trouble!

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

Ahem...

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2005/01/11.jpg

:)

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

Damn! I can't rep you and that so deserves a greenie or two.

Incog :D

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

My point exactly, why do people get so aerated over such small and insignificant issues.

:banghead:

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

I don't know, and I don't know why people get so arrested about people who get so arrested over small and insignificant issues either. ;)

I think we all ought to stop getting stressed about flagpoles, equal rights and moral outrage. :)

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

Because this is a discussion forum and without such irrelevancies, there would be little else to put in the basement areas ;) :D

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

dellwear, thanks for your comments, it saves me having to waste time on this.

:walk:

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

Incog, repped for you and me both..

Re: Awkward for the sake of being awkward
 

It's ok I got back to him. ;)