[Merged] Internal Tech Support----> India.
 

Oh dear......

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/14/ntl_ibm_india/

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

These are internal calls only (i.e., from ntl associates having problems with their PCs). It's not going to be service affecting from the customer's POV at all.

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

I know. :)

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

Even ntl's own UK staff aren't "fully trained on NTL's systems and processes" :rolleyes: :LOL:

Training (or lack of it) has always been an issue at ntl, this being highlighted by the fact that you can normally ring ntl 10 times with the same question, & get 10 different answers (NB-Not aimed at ntl staff)

This coupled with the "if you don't know, then just use the old CS-BS â„ ¢ " makes consistancy nigh on impossible for ntl associates in my experience. :td:

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

yet............................................... ...

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

:nono: :PP:

urm rather off topic....

the article is about staff who aren't even employed by ntl they are employed by IBM! Anyhow, i personally won't find it any harder to deal with people from india than people from teeside- both equally difficult to understand IMHO! :p:

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

...and at least the Indian staff will be more polite... Yes, sir, Mr MonkeyBreath, sir

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

Now, actually, I believe that some first level customer Internet technical support is handled in India. Although this topic is actually about ntl's Internal desktop support. :)

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

Bad idea. I am against ALL outsourcing of UK jobs to India, or any other foreign country.

Maybe all those in favour of it and who claim I am racist will feel the same way once their own job goes there and they can't pay the mortgage.

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

I am in full agreement with you.

People in this country that lose their jobs is bad enough but also the country is losing the skills that those people had. If a company outsources abroad for a few years and then decides to bring the jobs back here they will virtually have to start afresh with new staff that don't have the skills, company knowledge and product knowledge.

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

:mad: :Peace: At least you don't work for Telewest and don't have to talk to Geordies. Our accent is just a softer version of that :p:

And Teesside has two s's :D

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

Back Office jobs moving offshore is a sad fact of life now. We have a government who are actually activley encouraging it. It's just not the banks and insurance companies doing it. A major retailer is moving it's BPO processing offshore with the loss of nearly a thousand jobs. The next time you visit T****'s and hand over your clubcard remember that info is being held offshore now.

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

From memory do you not need to accept that your information can be transmitted outside the EU under the DPA? :confused:

I'm not sure if exemptions have been made or this is covered in the T&C's most people (myself included) sign without really reading them.

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

No. As long as the company can prove that they use 'best practice' your details can be held anywhere in the world.

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

I think if enough people complain to the DPA about this and how we feel that our details could be compromised that this could be changed.

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

It's all above board and legal. An awful lot of people have already complained, the only way of getting it changed is in the EU court. That will never happen. The only way of doing it is not to shop/bank e.t.c. with the offending company and actually tell them why you no longer want to do any buisness with them.

To change minds people need to tell the companies the reason.

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

ntl are not alone in this department either.

How many times have people who rang BT to be told absolute nonsense about having to plug in 4 telephones before they will send out an engineer, how many times will they tell you line noise 'is normal', how many times will BT connect tell me that because my Broadband E-mail is not working in need to register with BT Yahoo and create an account...WTF?

Ummm........ didnt Sky famously take advantage of long term customers by not advising them of a blatent problem with Sky+ software (which customers in their 12 month contract got fixed free) and they then sent out an engineer for £65.... ........nice!

Its not just ntl, get over it!!

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

Ok, but this is an ntl discussion forum that you are posting in.

I have no idea.

Again, I have no idea.

I still have no idea.

I have no idea, but be careful about what you post here, & think about whether what you have said may well be slanderous prior to posting please.

I haven't got anything to "get over" thanks. :)

We are discussing ntl, & I made a point about ntl's training (lack of it) in the post you have quoted-& I know more about ntl & the way they do things than you could ever hope to, so why don't you "get over" that? :)

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

Actually, this post is about IBM, not ntl, as IBM are responsible for all ntl Internal desktop support.

It is IBM's decision to move its first line support call centre to India, and I'm sure Monkybreath has already confirmed that.

By all means jump on the cart if this is a beef about ntl's services, but at least in this thread the issue lies with IBM surely?

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

Yes it is IBM who moved to india but NTL who pay IBM to provide the support I am sure could have stopped this if they wished to.

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

Oi, watch what you say about the Teesside lot mate ;) We find it quite hard to understand the Swansea lot too, constantly breathing down the phone asking about a technician that's never going to turn up:rofl:

Paul

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

Had a conversation over lunch today with a work colleague here in Miami who had to call tech support at Earthlink, his ISP ... and guess where the call centre is. :D

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

erm Earth?

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

Err ... yes, but more specifically, and taking the thread title into account ... ;)

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

no surprise, I know NTL arent the only company doing this rubbish but I am a customer of NTL so its them I bitch at (also my bank).

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

LOL, I bet you do too ::):)

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

Any advocates of free market capitalism out there?! If so, what's your take on this?

Since we no longer make anything any more (thanks Mrs T!) we are very much a service economy. Unfortunately the growth in technology now means labour is just a commodity in the global marketplace just like beans are on competing supermarkets' shelves. Companies will simply gravitate to the lowest cost option. I have every sympathy with staff at NTL and elsewhere where jobs are haemorrhaging abroad but none of us are innocent bystanders in all this. We are all complicit because we all, willingly/knowingly or not, take advantage of globalisation be it through cheap bananas in the supermarket, cheap electronic goods from China/Taiwan etc. People do nit buy British, they buy cheapest,

We can't have it both ways.

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

Your parody of free market capitalism is entertaining, if a little wide of the mark. :)

It's not simply a matter of selling at the cheapest price, it's about having the best product ... that's how you gain and keep customers and build brand loyalty. That's how stores like Marks and Spencer Simply Food, and Waitrose, can turn a profit despite having the likes of Asda on their doorstep. It's why Easyjet hasn't killed BA, and why Travelodge doesn't compete against Hilton or Marriott.

Outsourcing your customer services operations to India might, on the face of it, appear to be a sound business move because it cuts costs. But if in the long term it results in the business losing customers due to poor customer service, then free market capitalism dictates the Indian call centres be ditched in favour of an alternative that is better able to retain customers. A cheap product is useless if nobody will buy it.

We are in the early days of this phenomenon and it remains to be seen how successful outsourced callcentres will prove to be. Nat West at the very least now thinks having a UK call centre is a positive selling point worth spending a fortune on TV advertising to shout about.

Of course, free market capitalism also dictates that the operators of Indian call centres must recognise that they need to improve the service they offer if they are not to lose NTL and others as their customers. :D

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

I totally agree with you but if (and I take your point that at the moment it is an if) overseas call centres can match or improve service at lower cost (like ASDA can sell the same beans cheaper than the corner shop) then that's where the jobs will go. That is free market capitalism at work in the global economy. The reluctance of many UK companies to invest in decent training here - no names mentioned but rearrange the letters T, L and N for example - will only accelerate that process.

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

Well I have a different view, normally if a company does well the economy improves because more jobs are created and as such people have more money to spend, of course this wont work if the company creates these jobs abroad, how many people in india buy NTL services?

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

:LOL: :LOL:

Well unless the shareholders pay to lay cable in India they can't.

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

you have got to relise that the owners of ntl are not from the uk so are only interested in themselves not the uk ecomony make a quick buck and then shoot through.

Re: Tech Support----> India.
 

kitty LOL I like your sig

Re: [Merged] Tech Support----> India.
 

When I started at ntl in faults the department was staffed by about 10 ex customer service staff that where very dedicated to their jobs and very good at fixing faults. I started with 2 other permanant staff and 20 temporary staff.

The temporary staff where there to answer the expected demand from adding another regions coverage to the centre. As to be expected from temp staff non of them gave a t**s and for a few weeks the whole office was a bit of a joke. At this Point the time between incoming calls was sufficient to walk to the cafe and get food. (30 mins).

As there was a small dedicated team the level of knowledge of both the ntl systems and products was very high . Most of these original 10 are still with ntl at the moment, some managing departments now as well.

The problems started when the cable modems became more popular increasing the calls into the centre that should have gone to swansea. This coupled with the extra faults caused by buggy digital software that we could not fix and networks issues gave ntls faults 1000 calls a day.

To fix the problem they started a huge recruitment drive, from my view they lowered the levels required (both cs and techical skills) and we ended up with 70+ staff in the dept. Many of them where good but in that 70 at least 30 where not up to the job, nice people but not technically capable of it.

Ntl should have put more effort into the staff and training therfore raising the skills of the people on the phones and actually getting the job done on the first call. I dealt with 1000's of calls that should have been fixed 1st time and it was not rocket science.

Now Ntl have closed that call centre down retaing a handlefull of staff as 2nd level support and transferring the calls to other centres. These other centres such as Belshill in glasgow have had massive recruitment drives to cope with the increasing demand and this in turn has vastly diluted the skill level in the call centres.

How can this all be sorted out? Sending the calls to another country will make it cheaper but in the long run will 1000 indians do the job any better than the 300 uk people that it used to take. How many times will people have to call in before the find someone else how will take their money and provide a better service.

case in question...

Our telco line has been off for over a month now.

Ntl have been given 5 oportunities to take money from our debit card and each time they have given us a 'yes thats gone through ok'.

Due to the harmony project messing up the systems no notes have been made to support this as they cannot save notes. However there is a note on the account saying the telco line was disconnected back in december though it continued to work till mid jan. The system now has no reference to my cable modem account though my presence here using it clearly says otherwise.

I have spoke to people in Wythenshaw, Clydesbank, Swansea and Belshill and since there are no notes have had to repeat myself on no less than 10 occasions. I have have been promised that 'teamleader call backs' have been filled in but these have not been done. I have been assured that my line would be put on as a matter of emergancy but it has not been done.

I have found a Team leader (they do exist, one person I spoke to did not even know the name of his) and even have her email address, though despite my account being £90 in credit I still have no telephone line.

What is the worst thing is It takes but one 1 min call to assigments (if they even exist now) and the line could be active in 10 mins.

I cannot believe that this sort of thing goes on and that ntl still think the best way to handle increasing volumes of calls is to increase numbers in centres. What they need is training and lots of it. Ditch the computer diagnostic systems that are used because they are not flexible enough to cope with the diversity of calls.

One final winge I'm certain that there is a still a known fault that stops digital subscribers from whaching PPV, I'll bet it presents with a error not too dissimilar from 1020 and I'll bet there are ntl faults people that still won't even bother to check to see if the customers account is enabled for PPV before sending a pointless 'hit' and telling the customer to call back in ten mins if its still not working.

Sorry for hijacking the thread but it makes be sick knowing there are better ways of dealing with this and ntl cant get its head out of its ar*e and see it.

Mark

Re: [Merged] Tech Support----> India.
 

Re: [Merged] Tech Support----> India.
 

:LOL: sorry, but somebody has to say it so I may as well take the flack. This may be a non customer facing department that has been outsourced but the quality of the outsourced department may have a knock on effect which DOES affect the customer.

Re: [Merged] Tech Support----> India.
 

Not that anyone in mid-rant will care but is it worth mentioning that it wasn't an ntl department that was outsourced. Desktop IT support was already outsourced to IBM and the ntl support was moved to IBM India from the UK offices.

So... it stayed with the same company, has no effect on ntl customers only staff, and wasn't done by ntl...

Of course why disturb a good rant shop with facts :)

EDIT: Honestly this doesn't affect customers in any way, we still have onsite desktop support. Knock-on effects amazingly minimal, just logging calls and first line support that's been moved.
__________________

Talking of which the coffee machine on the 2nd floor near our office has been broken for a while, the extra effort of having to go to another coffee machine is killing us.
Anyone wanna rant about our coffee machine repair?

Re: [Merged] Tech Support----> India.
 

:rofl: :LOL: :clap:

Re: [Merged] Tech Support----> India.
 

As the Staff feel this is just for them will all customers who feel they have something to contribute to the thread about Call centres in India please use this thread that then leaves this to NTL Employees I hadn't ever thought I would see the day that it would became a Emplyee or customer only but it seems to be so now.
Thank you all for your help but please leave this for them and post in ours.

Re: [Merged] Tech Support----> India.
 

Kits, it's not about 'employee or customer'. It's about correcting the trail of this particular thread. The tech support info in this thread has NOTHING to do with customers, and will not affect them as such. :shrug:

Re: [Merged] Tech Support----> India.
 

OB, with all due respect, all NTL staff and outsourced services are there to provide one thing, a set of products and services that are sold to customers. The thread was started by Neil posting an article which appeared on the Register. I know very well that the outsourced department is only to help NTL staff with problems with their PCs, etc but if that support isn't up to scratch it CAN affect the internal workings of NTL and COULD have an impact on customers. The outsourced support may well be first class and we as customers may never be affected by this change, I don't know. However, if the support is in the same class as what some customers say they are getting from outsourced customer facing support then it must impact on the internal workings of NTL and ultimately the customer. I have never had contact myself with any India based customer facing support so cannot comment on it.

Re: [Merged] Tech Support----> India.
 

I appreciate what you're saying :) There's no problems as far as I'm aware about out internal IT support going to India. I have contact with them on a daily basis and have noticed no decrease in quality of service. How about moaning about sub standard service when it actually happens? Rather than complaining about a process that is NOT customer facing, never will be and is not affecting the ultimate service the external customer receives?

I think title of this thread is incredibly (OR DELIBERATELY) misleading too IMO. :td:

Re: [Merged] Tech Support----> India.
 

OB, I am not moaning about sub standard service or complaining about a process that is not customer facing. I am trying to correct the statements that you keep making that this change will not impact on the service a customer receives. Anything that happens within NTL has the potential to affect customers. Even a toilet that the cleaner hasn't cleaned properly, a badly made cup of tea or an argument a CSR has had with the car park attendant can affect customer service. :Peaceman:

Re: [Merged] Tech Support----> India.
 

Thread title altered.