Cash machine scams
 

We've all heard about them but very few people have actually seen them so I suppose it would be helpful if we knew what we're looking for - the little devices that *******s put of the card machine slots which record your card's details.

The first picture is what your cash machine should look like, the second is a machine with the appliance fitted.

Re: Cash machine scams
 

Barclay's and Natwest seem to be favourites, I wonder why?

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Useful stuff to know. It looks pretty damn genuine and if I'd only seen the "after" picture I might have said "so what's wrong with that"?

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I got caught before because it looked genuine. Generally though, all ATMs should have an indented card reader instead of an extruded one (look at the plastic around the card hole to see what I mean). If you do come across an extruded reader one, just wiggle it and see what happens. If it is extruded one, it should be one whole piece of plastic and be rigid. If it moves, or is not joined seamlessly to the ATM, don't use it.

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I saw one in a Sainsburys near my house, Managed to prize it out and chucked it on the road under a bus.

Seriously looked like 2 16 year old kids running things 'threatend' to 'kill me and my mate' until we told them to try it, then they ran off.

Muppets.

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it's quite shocking - what can the banks do to close this loop hole - ie. card skimming and camera watching you enter your pin?

finger prints to replace the pin and a smart chip on the card?

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My local chavs at least would cut your finger off and use it.;)

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another one that has been done is to replace the whole card panel with a false one that doesn't stick out.

I've noticed on a few Barclay's machines a sticker saying this machine has been fitted with extra protection and a slightly different looking reader. Didn't use it as i didn't know if it was legit or not.

Not sure there is much the banks can do about this unless we change the technology completety and that would also affects shops etc who have just had to pay out for chip and pin.

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Well I won't mention names ( for legal reasons and muggings ) but a well known chain of supermarkets have smaller ' in town ' stores, these have camera's fitted above atm's, only thing is they're fakes :shocked: now wtf's the point of that ??

How do I know, I was talking to the guy / firm fitting them, and at the time we were working in a very rough area of Manchester. So just imagine the little old lady feeling safe to use the atm coz of the cctv's :mad:

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Chip and PIN cards should eventually help but only once they have removed the magnetic strip from the card.

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I think you will find that the vast majority of CCTV cameras are dummies - they are just there as a deterant.

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Outside maybe, but why when they've a perfectly good recording procedure for the inside of the shop, one extra cctv's not gonna make any difference, to them at least.

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That is the point, a lot of shops have no facilities for recording anything.

I know of a national chain of clothes shops that sent dummy CCTV cameras to each store where they had no CCTV beforehand.

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pathetic. CCTV is what caught the bulger killers and countless other **** including IRA bombers.

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Because barclays are a pile of crap they have taken 3 months so far to investgate fraudlent use of my account and they still and found f all out knocked them on the head now and gone to halifax

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Incident like this occurred in my area not long ago, someone applied a plastic cover to a Natwest machine, it looked so convincing. I am always checking the machine I use, when there is a queue I still check it and I do get a lot of funny looks but better to be safe than broke! :erm:

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I am with Natwest, and I got my ATM withdrawls refunded in 2 weeks, and my POS withdrawls in 3 weeks.

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Barclays' new ATM to beat fraud

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4101391.stm

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A simple notice showing a picture of what the card thing looks like should just be placed on the monitor. Before the machine allows anyone to place there card in they should have to press a button saying 'I agree', etc... and then the machine allows them to use it.

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yeah but then they'd put a fake screen over the real one!

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Id doubt that :)

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Remember the old machines that had the perspex window that slid up when you put your card in. Them were the days, they gave out £5ers too.

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Yeah and they also took 5 minutes to.

I am doing my computing project on credit card fraud and looking into ways of reducing it

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We had one last year at our local Safeway Store on Nottingham Road in Mansfield, the guy got caught and was jailed for a couple of years I think, he was a illegal immigrant according to the papers.

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Whats the thing to the left of the slot in those pictures?

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I think it is a lock to open the front.

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For a start, I wonder why they don't use a hi-tec self lubricating or teflon coated material for the ATM machines facia. In conjuction with the right shape and angle of the facia then it would be extremely diffcult to stick anything to it.

You could also have a sliding screen which swipes back and forth over the whole slot facia every now and again to knock off/detect any fraud device stuck over it. You could do it so that the user has to press a button to instigate a screen swipe over the slot facia before they are allowed to insert the card and use the machine.

Another solution could be to use a camera and image recognition software to detect any change in the shape of the ATM's facia, alert the bank/police and automatically shut down the machine.

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that's fine until someone sticks their chewing gum over the camera lens!

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Ok then, how about a sensor array in the surface of the material to detect if a large object has been stuck on.

Point is that there is loads of things they could do that would cost less than the amount of money they stand to loose due to this increasing type of fraud.

Re: Cash machine scams
 

IIRC, years ago, on Tommorrows World, they had a cash machine that used signature recognition instead of pins (as well as the image of the signature, it also used the timing and angle of the individual strokes within it, thus making the signature almost impossible to forge).

The way it worked was interesting. It was invented by an RAF engineer, who used Ultrasound to detect fractures in jet engine casings. He came up with the idea of using the same technology in cash machines, and found that when objects were placed on the machine while it was scanning itself, it caused the results of the scan to change.

Maybe this technology could be looked at again.

Still, they seem to have forgotten about the technology

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I remember that tomorrow's world and I also remember thinking 'Imagine using that whilst sloshed'.

Picture the scenario - it's 1.30am the midnight monkey's nicked all your money and you need a tenner for the taxi home.
Goto machine
Attempt to sign your name on one of the 4 screens you can see and low and behold the machine swallows your card.
Home at 5am after the 2 steps forward 1 step back routine and up for work at 8 :(

Keep the pin - improve the machine so they can't get unwanted add-ons and we can all keep our jobs :)

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Actually I wasn't suggesting that they replace the pin, more that the technology could be used to scan for any devices, and the machine shut down/bank security notified if any are added.

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All these hi-tech ideas are not really needed. Once they get rid of the magnetic strip from cards (when they are all Chip&PIN) then none of these fraud machines will work anymore.

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It'll only be a matter of time before the chips are hackable - we just have to face the fact that to keep hold of your money in the modern day world we have to be extremely aware of how and when we use our cards.

I too have locked down accounts that have no money in them and no overdraft - and a way of transferring cash into them for online or bigger purchases.

I don't carry cash unless it's for a night out and always try to get cashback from supermarkets or such like rather than drawing out cash from an ATM.

Now I've only got to find a way of paying less tax and I might finally finish my house :)

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Ah, but it is not just the method of storing the data that changes but also the method for accessing that data.

Using a magnetic strip, the card can pass through a skimmer before it enters the ATM and all the data on it can be read.

The chip has to be in permanent contact with the chip reader inside the machine for the ATM to work it cannot be skimmed on entry like a magstrip. Also, the chip does not reveal any information until after the correct PIN is sent into the chip - so you would need to know that before you could get any useful data out of it (card number, etc.).

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the chip and pin service uses a secure method via a java application. Conditions have to be meet for details to be releaved such as account info.

Chip and pin has been in France for a while has decreased fraud but its still a problem

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I have found chip and pin has increased my ability to use Mrs H business bank account DR card. Before I used it to check balances and withdraw cash, now I can use it to pay for things as I know the pin, but cannot forge the signature on the back. Now I am an authorised signatory on the account, but this card is in her name. Nobody checks the info on the card now if you know the pin!

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The smart chip is already there on many cards. If they now want to add biometric authentication, that can easily be added.

Fingerprint readers are now used quite a lot in different applications (I recently saw a laptop with fingerprint login) but in many of those applications you 'own' the reader. Now, how do you feel about depositing your fingerprint on a nice shiny surface for someone to come and harvest?

One of the reasons they're not mainstream, yet, and why retinal scanning is a good idea - except the equipment for that is much bigger and more expensive, so not as practical to implement.

Biometrics is a growth area since it has applications in all areas where identity is important - maybe the national ID card is waiting for some biometric technology to go with it.