Packet Loss ?!?
 

Hi all,

After running Dan Elwell's Broadband Speed Test, most the tests were fine, but 2 reported "A Small Amount Of Packet Loss has Been Detected, This Should Be Investigated" (see attached screenshot)

I am using a Linksys BEFSR41 router, with 2 PC's connected, and i'm on NTL's 1.5mbit service via STB.

How can i stop the packet loss ?

Thanks

EZTutty

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

Try a few continuous pings to the sites and see what you get.

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

After 3 pings with no loss i got this: -

Pinging www.club.cc.cmu.edu [128.2.4.154] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 128.2.4.154: bytes=32 time=107ms TTL=45
Reply from 128.2.4.154: bytes=32 time=106ms TTL=45
Reply from 128.2.4.154: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=45
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 128.2.4.154:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 3, Lost = 1 (25% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 101ms, Maximum = 107ms, Average = 104ms

After 6 pings with no loss i got this: -

Pinging www.swansea.ac.uk [137.44.1.7] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 137.44.1.7: bytes=32 time=54ms TTL=237
Reply from 137.44.1.7: bytes=32 time=32ms TTL=237
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Ping statistics for 137.44.1.7:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 2, Lost = 2 (50% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 32ms, Maximum = 54ms, Average = 43ms

:s

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

I have been getting the same problem for the past 2 weeks. Pinging the same IP I am getting a 20% packet loss. Surely this cannot be right?!

Pinging www.swansea.ac.uk [137.44.1.7] with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Reply from 137.44.1.7: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=237
Reply from 137.44.1.7: bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=237
Reply from 137.44.1.7: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=237
Request timed out.
Reply from 137.44.1.7: bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=237
Reply from 137.44.1.7: bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=237
Reply from 137.44.1.7: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=237
Reply from 137.44.1.7: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=237
Reply from 137.44.1.7: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=237

Ping statistics for 137.44.1.7:
Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 8, Lost = 2 (20% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 28ms, Maximum = 31ms, Average = 29ms

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

If it is the NTL 2000 or 4000 STB take a look here

:D

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

it's the new silver samsung box

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

I'm getting a similar result..actually it's alot worse for me,when i do a route trace from the dos command;of the first seven servers associated with NTL i get alot of packet loss until i leave the NTL servers(i have had upto a 38% packet loss most of the time all lost on NTL servers):mad: .
I am migrating to BT on th 8/2/5 because i've heard alot about NTL b/b being crap.I will post the performance of BT.By the way i use my NTL B/B 1.5m for xbox gaming so packet loss is unbelievably vital.......bye.:grind:

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

I've been experiencing random packet loss (from 2% - 20%) for about 5 months. I rang to enquire about any possible problems in the area and a nice lady (in I presume CS) told me she would put a report about it onto my file ...
She told me to ring back when the packet loss stopped ...

I haven't rang back ... obviously ...
:D :D

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

I've been getting a lot of a loss for the last week or so, and I've narrowed it down to "tele-ic-2-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com". According to ping plotter I'm getting a constant 10-40% packet loss to it. I would phone NTL but from experience they won't know what I'm talking about.

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

I've been getting packet loss as well for the last week or so, and i keep getting kicked from online games because of it.

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

hi........also it's intresting to note that NTL are the only B/B suplier that will not accept these test results,not even if it's a good one like dan elwell's speed test(a little frightened i think).;)

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

They've always been the same in my experience-they will accept anything but facts that prove the issue is their end. :rolleyes:

:welcome: to the site BTW. :)

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

I too can see this packet loss from here (Shepshed). That router has extended and variable ping times and packet losses in the range indicated. I guess it is overloaded.

Perhaps someone from within NTL could please pass on the message to the network team rather than us have to try to report it on the phone.

APS

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

I think we've been through and through tele-ic-1 / 2 - unless there are packets being dropped behind those routers on the traceroutes that are being shown not interested as it's not indicative of a fault.

Try tracing through a foundry based network you'll see similar results but no spikes at the other end - routers are there to route, not answer pings, and so long as they are delivering packets to the nodes behind them in a timely fashion there's no fault:

3 181 ms 16 ms 16 ms 82-197-65-225.hi-velocity.net [82.197.65.225] <<< spike due to it being a foundry box, no spike on node behind, no fault!
4 17 ms 18 ms 18 ms 82.197.95.122

Please also remember that tele-ic-2 connects to LINX and necessarily carries a full internet table, when its' routes are being updated is it any surprise it's busy? It's routing and switching fabrics are unaffected by this, so no worries.

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

Well I'm losing packets somewhere while gaming, and it's not my end, nor the servers. So that leaves either NTL or Telehouse. Does it take a server 2 weeks+ to update it's routes?

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

It's a router not a server.

Have you tried a UDP traceroute?

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

I meant the game servers (counter-strike:source in this case).

How do I go about doing a UDP traceroute?

edit: Here's a windows 'tracert' if that's UDP...

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

http://www.nscan.org/cgi-bin/link.pl?link=m1_tracert021

Also http://tracker.5star-network.com/dow...ools_5star.exe

First is freeware second is shareware.

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

Nothing at all wrong with that tracert.

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

Ta, OK I tried the first one and this is what it came up with. I appreciate routers don't prioritise pings, but I am getting definate loss with my games and it can be very frustrating.

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

here see the difference on leics area :(
__________________

here is with same ip and settings

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

i'm now running on the B/B service by B.T. & my kill's on HALO2 have gone from around 5 to 6 kill's to about 13 or more(sometimes the pack leader). so there you are proof i think.(this is only my opinion)ha ha ***** iv'e had enough.

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

So you think hop 8 looks fine ?

204 ms * 168 ms tele-ic-2-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.74]

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

I'm just running a test on my connection. I keep getting spiking pings when ever there is action on my screen in games, such as MOH last night with the clan my ping kept spiking from 70 to 150 and even up to 200. No one else got this just me :(

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

Everything before and after that hop is fine so if it is like that all the time than that particular hop might be spiking occasionally but it wont be constant. If it was constant every hop after that hop would be high too.

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

Well, problem found. Any UK servers or Euro servers I connect to I get packet loss (and up to 10%). Although USA servers come back clear? :erm:

Any ideas? :confused:
__________________

2 tracerts with that freeware software shows the 4th hop keeps timing out, which I think is located in Birmingham :erm:

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

It's the last hop that is the important one. A tracert basically sends a ICMP packet to the required site with a TTL=1 (Time To Live) followed by one with TTL=2, increasing by 1 until the destination is reached or the maximum TTL value set is reached. Routers along the route will send back a "TTL expired in transit" message if the TTL field has reached zero by the time it hits that router thus building up the route taken until the final destination has been reached. As many routers give ICMP packets low priority this can show a result similar to hop 8 that you refer to. As the TTL is increased so that it is not zero when it reaches hop 8, that router gives the packet an higher priority meaning all is well after it.

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

Hmm..well I've seen packetloss in games occur, done a tracert and found exactly the same result. One or two routers dropping packets hence the asterisk, either due to overload or damage. Online games require a much more timely response than standard http traffic, if I had that kind of route on any game it would be spiking and probably unplayable even tho' my ping times would appear normal.

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

Pretty please do a Google on how routers handle standard traffic and how they handle pings to themselves, there are completely different logical paths - if any more questions post.

Actually no forget that quick explanation.

Routers have at least 2 different processing components.

A generic CPU for doing the mundane stuff, calculating routes, taking in and processing commands, responding to ICMP traffic and packets with a destination address that's one of the router's interfaces, etc, etc.

The other part is usually a dedicated Application Specific Integrated Circuit (ASIC) based Switching/Routing/Forwarding engine which takes packets in, strips the headers and decides based on a routing and a forwarding table (maintained through interaction with the CPU for ARPing, retrieving information from routing protocols, etc) which of its' interfaces to shove the packet out of, and then re-encapsulates the packet in new headers.

Most packets the ASIC based engine knows what to do with them due to previous packets and the CPU is not involved in any way. Only when dealing with a completely new network is CPU interaction required.

I hope this helps a bit. Also remember routers don't give a monkeys about whether the traffic is TCP or UDP, they work on IP level and won't look upwards of this unless told to, which requires CPU as the routing engine only deals with IP and below.

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

So if this packet loss isn't the client, server or NTL's doing, where is it coming from?

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

Didn't say ntl was entirely innocent, just saying that seeing apparent loss on a router is not indicative of its' performance throughout, to save on CPU some routers only answer so many ping requests per second.

Might still be an issue, tele-ic-1 has been upgraded and tele-ic-2's turn should be soon.

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

Ahh that's good news, not been able to test my connection for the last few days as I've been on a somewhat 'iffy' wireless connection :)

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

ignition you know if the planned leics upgrades still going ahead?

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

Second LINX upgrade complete, how's the UDP loss now chaps / chapesses?

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

Oops forgot about this. The last couple of days it has been a lot better, although I still get the odd 'choke' spike but I'm not exactly sure what that is anyway. Gameplay wise, bullets are registering as they should be now. :)

Re: Packet Loss ?!?
 

Good! :)