racism
 

where to start.............

a couple who are under constant racist abuse have sent there 2 children to amercia in a bid to improve there lives and to protect them

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/s...es/3158407.stm

meanwhile a man in manchester has been banned for life for using the offensive term 'paki' and also faces a 5 year jail sentence

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?i...ort=1&sparte=4


oh and my town has made the news for the wrong reasons :rolleyes:

well the BNP has invaded my town the racist b****s have won the local seat brings there total count to 17 nationally

it seems the brunt of the discontent is an economic reason as ethnic minorties are taking jobs supposedly every white person deserves a job and the average ethnic person who is responsible and/or part of ploughing millions in to the economy should fend for themselves its just stupid

http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardianpo...019876,00.html
wtf is this country coming to :mad:

What do you mean what's it coming to? It's been a bag of **** for more years than I can remember (and historically it's been far worse). The fact that the BNP have gained seats means that the general public have voted for them, I think they call it .. democracy, don't like it? Bugger off to Belarus.

it may have been but it seems to be going downhill at an alarming rate in this day and age

yep and the t**ers that did should be hung drawn a quartered and/or go through an immense amount of pain and suffering

democracy ? whatever happend to morals did they die and fly off to heaven ?

or have people lost the plot and cant tell whats going on under the lies the decit underneath the absolute drivel that infests itself from the mouths of these white supremacists the BNP

i like democracy but it seems all common sense has died

Doesn't Paki actually mean friend?

Listening to my parents scares me sometimes.
Now and again they slip into "Sun reader" mode and start ranting about sending the foreigners home.
I'm astounded I'm related to them at times.
It's weird tho, as they aren't racist, but now and again just spurt this drivel out.
Maybe they are being brainwashed by the sun?

it makes me so angry that people are so blinkred they believe anything and everything that they read and hear its absolute stupidity the media the goverment have people wrapped round there fingers as they dont think hang on a minuite is this correct is it a bias etc

:mad:

nope........

Compared to when?

... see my comment at the end of this post.

Talking of drivel ...

Now here's a peach, you 'like democracy' but don't like people voting for who they please ... you moron :)

comparied to 5-10 years ago it was never this bad well i can vouch for that around here everyone helped each other it was never about skin colour it was about being a human thats the ultimate thing people forget everyone is human


people can vote as they want however any person who actually understands what there actions are doing and how they are affecting others and themselves in the long run is a much better asset then the general consensus it does not mean the majorty is always right

Hmm perhaps Starship Troopers did have the right idea after all...

I don't know where in hell you live, County La La Land?

O.k., that made little sense, BNP supporters or candidates are not the general consensus and still I say, people can vote for whatever party their beliefs fit in with.

(btw, are you even old enough to vote yet?)

What? Not giving us a sequel to such a mind numbingly sh*te film? ;)

obviously your brain wont compute so i wont go there

OMG he finally understood (some) what i said i never said you cant vote for whatever party you choose im saying people dont realise what they are doing to the future of this country if they choose the BNP route i strongly object to them the BNP

Coming from the boy that can barely string a sentence together that actually makes sense (let alone spell most of it correctly) that's probably praise in some form.


Good for you, you object to the BNP, I'll tell you what, when you get to vote, don't vote for them, and try to take on board that the people who believe that the BNP might be good for England (I am not one of these people, I couldn't give a f*ck for any political party in Great Britain, and you wouldn't like the one I vote for over here either) do not need to be dictated to by an illiterate halfwit with an unhealthy tomboy pop obsession.

im perfectly capable of out pacing you intellectually and yes i can spell but i dont take care in my posts with people like you




i see arent we acting like a hard man just because no mods are around...... well nice try on trying to get me p***ed off but it wont work i dont rise to idiots who have no intellect


thats all the off topicness you will get out of me in this thread

out of interest what is your prefered choice in voting the green party :D :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Perhaps this is another reason the BNP are doing well. Shame their not around here I'd vote for them and before any bloody do gooders reply no I'm not racist just an Englishmen that's p#ssed off with a government thinking were a continent when were only a small island with our own problems

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2003380423,00.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2003380578,00.html

Dude, you couldn't 'out pace' Joey Deacon in a battle of wits.

Getting you ****ed off? I wouldn't flatter yourself, from what I've seen of you, you're not worth the time or effort.

Not sure exactly what you're finding funny there, I've heard of sadacts laughing at their own jokes but you've failed to crack one .. a new alltime low for you, well done, and no, not the green party, I'll continue to vote for Sinn FÃÃâ€*’©in.

I would take that as a sign of peoples dissatisfaction with the "mainstream" candidates really rather than a vote FOR the BNP.

We have had a conservative govt... they messed up the country, we are STILL recovering from their actions.
Labour aren't doing much better. People want a change, but who to vote for?

Racism is and always has been a big problem, and not just in the UK, a couple of centuries ago people went to the US on the mayflower, and proceded to almost eradicate the indigenous population, same thing has happened wherever we have set foot. Australia, South Africa, etc etc. We can hope that we educate the bigotry out of people, but it seems persistant.

My personal opinion is that we should close the refugee floodgates and ship some of them to france, germany, in fact any country other than the UK. This is not bigotry, this is economics. This country is having trouble sustaining its existing populace, by accepting more immigrants we are stretching the resources even further, taxation etc is causing the closure or relocation of many businesses outside the country, disposable income has never been so low, unemployment is STILL high, we need to curb this, not increase the amounts.

A Prerequisite for living in the UK should be the ability to speak english, (as should the ability to speak german be a prerequisite for living in germany) Or at least show willingness to LEARN the language.

Too many times is language / colour / race used as an excuse for "misunderstandings", as is the saying "They grew up in a different culture", sorry, that does NOT hold water. The laws of a country should apply to ALL, Ignorance is NOT a defence.


There are as many white people I know who are a***oles as there are asians, in fact some of the most honest people I know are asian, as are some of the least honest. Race or colour does not define a person, a person is defined by his or her actions.

The legal system in the uk is totally messed up, People like tony martin face jail for defending their property, criminals are free to sue the people they commit crimes against. Asians avoid issues with the police by claiming racial prejudice when they are pulled over for driving a car with 3 bald tyres, a 5 year old tax disc at 60mph through a 20 zone, with no tax / mot / license and they get away with it. It is not their fault they do this, it is the fault of a legal system that allows it to happen. (Although admittedly some police forces DO target non white people)

Thing is, what can we do about it? The laws are decided by people who have little or no idea of what happens in the real world to a majority of people. Even New Labour have no idea, and the idea of that party was for a political force led by the working man.


We should scrap the legal system, scrap the politicians and start over again, electing people into power who DO know, creating laws which no longer give favour to criminals / children. Start trying to make Britain Great again.

[Edit] Please note, I do not mean PERMANENTLY close the refugee borders... merely until we can sustain ourselves again, and have a growth economy capable of sustaining them

the sun another excellent source of news :rolleyes:

the fact is if the BNP were to come in to power the economy would be crippled as the current financial rewards would be spent on keeping ethnic minorities out of the uk and bribeing them to leave as a recent local news article said they are willing to pay ethnic people to leave this country the country they paid taxes to gave back helped the economy

Firstly, you don't know that as a fact, secondly if they stop even some of the refugee's that come to Great Britain to take up council housing and various benefits then the reward far outweighs any budget spent on keeping them out in the first place.

Had? Had? I thought we still did! :D (and they're still screwing things up)

This thread will need to calm down a bit if people want it to stay open.....

I've had my fair share of racism. And I am afraid it has tainted my views somewhat.
I have been attacked, had my parents house vandalised and received death threats from Combat 18. All because i sttod up for a friend.
Now the bit that really galled me, was, because I am white I was told this wasnt a racially motivated attack. Yet the same policeman warned me that C18 where having a big meeting and that I wasnt safe. He then threatened me into not withdrawing my statement and point blank refused to help me. (incidently he was later severely reprimanded over his actions in the whole investigation)

Now because of this my views are tainted, I dont preach hatred, I dont object to anyone entering this country to make a better life for themselves. What I object to is the fact the more and more people are finding out that we are at a disadvantage because we are white.
An extreme claim I know.
But look at things from my point of view, the person I stuck up for had stickers put on his windows, I was physically attacked, received telephoned death threats and had my parents house trashed yet the police went beserk over stickers on a window and had the house under 24 hour protection and yet I got not a damned thing. In fact I was lead to beleive (probably in my own head that it was all my fault and that I should be more carefull).

Its a mixture of reasons why the BNP is getting its way, but remember the BNP are a legal political party and the fact that they exist is the same reason we can say what we like in public, the reason we can march in protest at our government.
Yes the BNP have some extreme views, but please dont confuse them with the Neo Nazis, or the likes of C18. The BNP are a political group, they may have ties to some unsavoury groups but hey the Labour government waged an illegal war on Iraq and forced an innocent man to take his own life.
Racism will never ever be wiped out, I was astounded to find the amount of racism that comes from Indians to Pakistanis and vice verser. What we need is more equality where one race isnt given any kind of preferential treatment to any other. Only then will parties such as the BNP find their support dwindle.

We have been here so many times, and I have been slated for my views so many time, and called racist etc etc.

The BNP will continue to get votes as long as all the other parties continue to ignore te wats and needs of the average UK voter.

I am not saying it's a good thing, but we live in a democracy and should be thankfull of that, if parties were to not allowed to run then t would not democratic.

It's interesting how some people get 'racism' and 'xenaphobia' mixed up. For example if someone said "I hate Pakistanis" then they are immediately branded 'racist' but that would only be correct if the judgement was based on the colour of their skin. If that person said it because of where they come from, they are subsequently 'xenaphobic'.

It's interesting therefore how someone can be called 'racist' if they complain about the number of English people moving in to a Welsh town.

(This is just an example, I'm not saying I agree with it)

Good point Russ, but making me think this early in the morning is not good.

Now that things seem to have calmed down...slightly...would the more vocal "for and against" posters care to give their idea of a racist???...

If I have cause to denegrate a person with a "white" skin..that seems to be ok....BUT...if I do the same to a person with a "coloured" skin...for exactly the same reason...I am classed as a racist....
Agree with a fair ammount of "lord`s" post....just do not see how we send them to France/Germany cos they do not speak English....when they probably do not speak French/German either??...

Ok this isnt the same as you but anyway, when i was at school a black boy pushed me down the stairs and shooted that i was a peice of white trash, i shouted back (in my anger) that hes was a ******, he only got suspended for a day but i got suspened for a week because i was being racist. The thing is he was being racist as well, but they didnt look at it that way

Why are people that vote for BNP seen as racists when most are not. Most are people fedup with the government flooding our country with immigrants and had enough. Their using the only thing they can to change things and that's their vote. Are existing parties lab/cons wont so why not. Were seen as a soft touch throughout the world and we are. That's the real reason people flock through Europe (safe countries) to get to Britain and collect their benefits or should I say our tax money. Even existing immigrants know doubt realise the doors have to be shut that's the only way to stop true racists until this is done then racism will get worse and theirs no stopping it

This could be going off topic...delete if it is....
I always u/stood that asylum seekers had to apply for asylum in the first "neutral" country they came too....
If asylum seekers had to apply for asylum BEFORE they entered the country this would simplfy things....IMNO

living near heckmondwike where the BNP candidate got in i probably got all the same news as kronas etc. its strange how whenever the BNP look like getting a seat the otehr parties get on their high horse and complain because the BNP are distributing flyers saying what their policy is and what they would do etc. dont all political parties do this?

in the may elections the fact that the BNP came second in my town was because people believed a lot more of what was on the BNP propaganda than on the liberal conservative etc propaganda. the BNP actually promised things... whether they would deliver or not is a different matter but then again labor promised and didnt deliver didnt they...

i am pretty sure looking at the margin of victory in mirfield that the conservatives had, the BNP will get in next time.

an interesting side note, the person that runs off all the leaflets for the BNP lives about 5 mins away from me. a few years ago the police arrested him and confiscated all his computing equipment for no reason, other than to claim he was "inciting racism". this was shunned by many of the townspeople and they were disgusted at the police, as there was no evidence of this at all. im sure thats why 1400 of my town voted for them...

yes i agree

again i agree with this this country can only take so much before the coffers get emptyed severely

i think the people who do arrive must be given help in learning english as some come from backgrounds where english was not the primary language

to a certain extent its true there are diffarences in culture but the law should be upheld for this country

exactly what i would like to see

thats BS the police stop anyone who is breaking the law regarding such issues asians do not claim racial prejudice every time that happens


yep and give equality to everybody and take action on certain issues such as the law and the NHS etc and start to make real changes to this country in a positive way

I feel offended that certain people have branded others as "Stupid, Single Minded", just because we dont share similar views. Maybe you dont live in a area affected by this, Or maybe you have personal attachments to the affected people.

Regardless - Immigration needs to stop. We're smaller than france, yet accept more immigrants.. Garbage, We Can hardly support the people who live over here, nevermind others.

Onto the term "Paki" being branded as racist.. Thats complete crap. Are they not proud to be packistanis? Its EXACTLY the same as us being called brits.

They Get absoulute preference when its comes to legal arguments, all's they need to do is through the "He's racist" into the debate, and thats it.. Guilty Guilty Guilty.

Anyway, them "Single Minded, stupid people" are entitled to there own views, and if they're the majority.. then they win, Just as the BNP got into power in your Area.. Because they're the majority. And I think people are in for a shock when certain area's of younger people get the power to vote'.

:erm: Got out of the wrong side of bed did you?

My views on this.....

Anyone who come to seek asylum in the UK has come here because they are being percicuted in their own country. I have no problem with us helping these people, what i have a problem with is their attitude when they get here. If you chose to seek asylum in the UK then you also chose to live by our laws, just because something was acceptable in their country it doesn't mean it is acceptable here. Lets put it this way, if we were to go to their country would we be allowed to demand Goverment Money for segregated schools & to build our own churches?

Also i believe that a lot of racial tension is created by the Laws of this country because people are scared of the "He is being Racist" claim.

(Not sure of the exact terms, but heres an example)

If i was to walk down the street & be attacked by 5 Black people it would be treated as an Assault case by the courts & the maximum term is 5 years. Now if i was black & was attacked by 5 white people then it would be treated as a Racial Case & the Maximum term is 12 years.

We are being made to feel like second class citizens because of the fear of this "Racist" word. The biggest problem is that people no this, & they use it as an easy get out.

Some Interesting articles regarding the BNP and their views

http://www.usdaw.org.uk/equality/fil...tYouDecide.pdf

http://www.kingstonguardian.co.uk/vi...ws_of_bnp.html

Steven_NTL, your point about the term "Paki" would be valid if they were actually Pakistani. But the fact that the word "Paki" is used to describe anyone of west asian ethnicity kind of blows that out of the water.

I dont see why people are getting so worked up about the BNP, they're just riding off the current anger at Labour. The BNP are actually pretty liberal when it comes to racism and white supremacy. As far as i know, they're actually not very much liked in the neo-nazi fraternity. Combat 18 for example, were created as "bodyguards" for the original BNP but then arguments insued and they broke off.
And lets clear something up about these seats the BNP are winning; they're just local council seats. They dont have any seats or any say in real national matters in the House of Commons. Considering they share council seats with multiple other politicians, they barely have any say where they hold local council seats either.
I doubt the BNP will even win any seats in parliament come next election. Considering the majority of voters stick with their party whatever, whenever then its extremlely unlikely - especially as you must also take into account the larger constituencies and much higher turnout for national elections. And i havent even meantioned the fact that fortunetly most British citizens have common sense.
Seriously, for those of you who vote for the BNP; have you actually read their policies? The ones which arent related to race and immigration aswell?

the articles posted by another user about the BNP are fair comment.
A few issues I would like to raise are :-
How many people can honestly say that at no point in their lives have they ever told a joke that refers to a black man?

Now humour over concentration camps can be appaling, I say this because I have heard one or two jokes and I laughed, because they are jokes, they are not insults to the victims or survivors of the holocaust. And also remember it wasnt just jews that were killed by the Nazis.
If you think that telling a racist joke is bad, what about all the war movies where the nazis were portrayed as docile idiots and were the evil bad men? Did the troops fighting in WW2 not tell jokes about the Nazis? therefor this would brand them racist.....to me its crazy, humour of this nature should never be told to cause offence and I certainly wouldnt tell Irish jokes to an Irish person just as I wouldnt tell concentration camp jokes to a Jewish person.

However just because it isnt your "style" of humour does not simply make it racist.
I personally dont like a lot of comedians, so I dont listen to them.

Anyone that is fundementally against everything the BNP stands for really should not be carrying out investagitive journalism about them.

I do wonder if people are linking the BNP to the NF (National Front).

Also why are the BNP only labelled racist when they also dislike communists?

What I think the problem is too many people relate the BNP to the skinheads, they havent bothered to take the time to research the party and they beleive everyhting thats printed in the papers...well the Sun and the Mirror usually, and you cant get much more left wing than the Mirror or more xenophobic than the sun.

Oh and for the record, I have not voted BNP and I dooubt highly I would, but they do interest me.

i for one dont think that i have read there other polices and dont like them the disabled peoples policy is one i am against too the fact is i WILL not stand for a party which is designed to drive people out of the country just because they are non whites its just blatantly wrong cant people see who they are what they do the real BNP or believe the crap that they spout when canvasing :rolleyes:

Well I have a disabled mother, and I have read some of their policies yes some are down right idiotic but they are about as likely to be able to enact any of their policies as a snow flake has of not melting in hell.
But what anti BNP/anti nazi or whatever they want to be called dont realise is to prevent groups like the BNP prevents democracy. If someone wants to vote BNP it is because the BNP are making policies that the voter agrees with. That will never change, there will always be racists, homophobes, xenophobes, sexists etc etc. Simply stopping them from having a voice isnt the answer it actually is more likely to further their cause.

Just because you think the BNP's policies are crap doesnt mean that Mr Smith 3 doors down thinks the same, Just because you are appalled that they want to be tough on immigration doesnt mean that Mrs miggins that lives next to uncle jimmy thinks the same.
The whole reason that the BNP are gaining local council seats is because people are voting for them, they are exercising their rights to show their contemp/concern/greviances to the central government.
And to be quite brutally honest the way racism is going in this country I can quite understand it. I have been failed once and I do not want to see people getting preferencial treatment because they have darker skin then someone else.

What people? What attitude?

Well of course.

No, we'd murder and enslave the citizens, run the government, segregate the schools, diminish the local culture, preach our own and build our own churches ourselves. Oh wait a moment.......... ;)


Thats way too black and white (so to speak) an example, and isnt true. Terms of charges arent just based on colour of skin. What ever you'd like to think, there'd be an investigation and evidence looked over before a charge was made.
If the white being attacked claimed the attackers were racist and there was evidence then the case would be treated as such. And vice versa.
Find me a case of your above example with no other factors involved apart from colour.

Woah, hold on there mate. Pot calling the kettle black anyone? (again, so to speak ;))
You're using an excuse for being made to feel like a second class citizen while in the same breath complaining about others using your insecurity to an advantage. You only have yourself to blame if you're so insecure that you feel like a second class citizen.

I beleive that too many people have "played" the racist card to further their own interests.
I'm sad to say that most people where i live know if you go to a job interview and theres black people there that theres suddenly only one vacancy instead of two. Doesnt make us racist it means we know that firms have to be carefull they dont get labelled racist. To me thats all wrong.

The point that was made about a white person being assaulted by black people and blacks being assaulted by whites.
Ok the way I see it is that a coloured person will ALWAYS get the racially motivated assault, rather than common assault ( a fault of the CPS not the victim). Therefor the judge has the opportunity to sentence the defendant to 12 years rather than 5 years for what is essentially the same crime.
Thats VERY wrong.

For instance if I walked past a coloured person and he said somehtign I didnt like and I hit him, the CPS will say it was a racially motivated crime. However to me If I walked past him and called him a black ******** and then hit him its a racially motivated crime.
If it the other way around both ways usually are deemed non racial and the charge would be for common assault.

Actually I think it would be the police who would treat it as a racially motivated crime. The CPS just act on what is given to them.

Yeah the police would investigate the crime and send the info to the CPS, they then have the choice to say....common assault or racially motivated assault.
They also have the power to drop it.
Normally the police would only make the racism allegation if there was a tape recorded confession or substantial independant evidence.

Some would claim that the 'paki' part comes from the Urdu (or some similar language) for 'pure'. In fact, I believe that it's an acronym for Punjab, something or other and Kashmir. The 'stan' part means something like land or country, as in Baluchistan, Uzbekistan etc.

:rolleyes:

##insert usuall do gooder reply here##

Well it is true.We should be decreasing our population not increasing it. Have you seen the traffic/housing shortages/overcrowding?

Well lets see......the Kosovans in Gravesend and Broadstairs who are habitual knife carriers and criminals?



Well thats not the way the assylum seekers (and the liberals) see it!


Why should we pay/feel guilty for the sins of our great grandfathers?!

What, all of them? Do you have any facts or figures to back this up?

Wow, one miniscual example (one which also contains major exaggeration, hysteria and generalisation). *starts sarcastically clapping*
My point in saying "what attitude, what people?" was to point out the stupidity and extreme generalisation in the comment.



More stupid generalisations. And i'd prefer it if you didnt tell me what i see and what i dont, as you obviously dont know.
Typical right wing, always trying to dictate others ;)


Erm, who said you should? I was merely make a very valid (and sarcastic) point. Dont get your knickers in a twist mate.

With regards to asylum seekers.
As a nation we get about 100,000 AS a year.
Of those, only about 10,000 are considered valid.
Think of the resources being wasted on the 90% that aren't valid!

That's why I go along with the plan to build multi-national funded asylum centres where AS can be taken, looked after, and assessed much faster (most AS lawyers will tell you that if the AS is detained the acceptance/rejection process is much faster as you know where they are).
Those who are rejected (ie economical migrants etc) would get returned to their own countries.
Those who actually do need our help and support would be allocated to a country on a quota basis, so no recieving country is economically burdened.
They'd also get language training for the country they are allocated to, and any basic education they need (and importantly medical training for any AS doctors so they can start practicing immediately).
Once they arrive at their allocated country, they won't be AS anymore, as they've been given asylum and therefore will be able to work, pay taxes etc unlike the current AS who are not allowed to work and therefore have to rely on benifits from the state.

Personally I feel that if the public knows that these people are genuine, and truly do need our help, and these people are working and not taking benifits, then they will be much more accepting.

Also, with the money that would be saved from not having to deal with the 90,000 invalid applications we could afford to increase our quota to 20,000 helping even more genuine people in need, and still have money left over.

and I was giving you specifics, as you asked for. If you want to be sarcastic then thats up to you......





but true ones....but you do know enough to spout off, and then tell me I can't?!
so unlike the left who are never telling everyone what to do....one word: centralisation....lol




You implied that, and if you didn't, why did you raise it then?but you were making a point that I replied to...so I would still like an answer to it...

Well said:)

lol, of course not. I just have the impressions of normal law abiding people- teachers, driving instructors, supermarket workers, who live in those places ans have come into brutal contact with these thugs. Not to mention my vicar who was conned into giving two of them a home.

One word: rhetorical.

I'm not making hysterical generalisations.

Yes mate, thats right ;).


I raised it because it was in answer to his question, a comical answer but an answer nonetheless.
You want an answer? Well first answer me this:
Are you proud of what your ancestors have done? Are you proud that its your ancestors who've let you live such a luxorous life? Are you proud of your ancestors who've built this country? Are you proud of the good aspects of British history?
If the answer is yes to any of those questions, then yes; you should then also feel remorse and disgrace (not guilt) for the bad actions of your ancestors. Take the good with the bad and the bad with the good as they say.

As a country we have been guilty of a lot in the past, and we have also made restitution for some of it, we went into iraq to end the reign of terror of a dictator, we did this with the assistance of the americans (or we assisted them :D ) We offer asylum to people who ask, we fund a health service for the general population, we have put the asylum seekers in hotels most of us couldn't afford a long stay in, we give them money, legal assistance etc.

we have waiting times of 2 years or more for some surgery on the NHS, breakthrough drugs and treatments are rejected by the NHS on the grounds of cost. yet we accept more refugees and asylum seekers. Businesses are failing in the UK, yet we accept more asylum seekers.

It has to end, before this country is unable to support itself, we need to put the situation on hold, process those we have, accept or reject the people, then we pass people to france, to italy, to other countries while we sort ourselves out.

If the country was a business, it would be closed by the directors.
our first responsibility has to be to the people who are living here, to improve things for them.

We also need to readdress the situation for the asylum seekers. Perhaps an idea along the lines of the following...

State run employment centers, for the asylum seekers, making clothing for them, making other goods, furniture, etc which each asylum seeker must work in, unless they find more gainful employment outside the centers, This to be done for a period of 2 years, Compulsory english lessons for them so that they may speak the language of the country they wish to live in, wages to be paid, with deductions for the housing they are given, as well as national insurance and normal taxes.
This means that rather than supporting them, they support themselves.

Any refugee / asylum seeker found to commit a crime within the first 6 months (ANY crime) to be deported. Within the first 2 years, deported depending on the severity of the crime.

oh right.................ok...........so if 2 christians conned him that would make all christians BAD and should be thrown out of the country somehow i dont see it happening...............

*sees a huge bias emerging :rolleyes:

Of course not, but there is a pattern emerging...
Someone said earlier that 90% of all asylum seekers were economic migrants, not refugees. As such they are con-men/women and they are conning our country and taking our money.

I will answer as if the British were my ancestors. The answer is no to all the above ....so I guess I would'nt have anything to feel guilty about:D
the British nation has (like many others) been built partly on the blood and sweat of other peoples but that is not the fault of anyone alive today. It's a bit like expecting you to pay reparations because your great grandfather committed a crime.

wtf are you talking about the people who come in to this country are actually helping the economy grow ofcourse there will be some who screw the system im talking about the economic migrants

"Although employment was not the dominant reason for heading to the UK, it was found to play some role because, according to the researchers, they wanted to support themselves - something the UN Refugee Agency calls "mixed-motive migration"

"Finding work was an important issue once they had reached a place of safety," said the Home Office paper"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3075505.stm

thats the 90% someone mentioned.....in other words the overwhelming majority.

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"Finding work was an important issue once they had reached a place of safety," said the Home Office paper"

thats the other 10% that I have no problem with

[/QUOTE]

you dont understand what im trying to tell you is some people come to this country as skilled workers ie doctors nurses etc jobs that people here DONT want to do or there is a skills shortage some want to come to this country and improve there lives as the country they come from has a poor education system or has no work and want to earn a living they are plouging millions back in to this country

But the ones that come here with no skills or education are likely to become part of the black economy and as such be very poorly paid, pay no taxes (thus giving nothing back to the nation) and may well drift into crime to support themselves(thus detracting from the nation) whilst getting handouts.
Come down to Gravesend, Broadstairs, Margate, Thamesmead and see for yourself......:(
....oh, and try not to get mugged....

im not denying that goes on what i am saying is people dont realise how many millions are being pumped back in to the country by these people i cant find the link to some info if i do i will post it here

I smoke - therefore the taxes I pay on my ciggies put millions back into the economy - can I get handouts and free housing too then? :rolleyes:

Aah, but these immigrants putting millions into the economy are not the ones getting handouts and housing. They're the one that work and pay taxes.

I would be really interested to see that link:) ....'cos I don't believe that we are getting more back from the present wave of legal immigrants than the illegals are costing us in money and social problems.
Especially when it apparently is a 1:9 good:bad ratio:(

Likewise, It would be interesting if you could back that up with a link (that's not just speculative).

So theres 100,000 Doctors nurses and people willing to work coming into this country every year?
Why is the NHS in crisis at lack of doctors and nurses?
Why are these so called hard waorkers receiving benefits then?

Yes some of them will come here prepared to work, A lot of the doctors come here at the request of the NHS. But that does not make a majority.

Here is a link:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2019385.stm


Obviously, it is a complicated issue, and it depends on how you do your calculatations, but it does say in the article:

'In the UK, Home Office research suggests that immigrants pay £2.5bn more in taxes than they take in benefits.

And the Treasury estimates that the economic growth rate has been boosted by a quarter-point because of immigration'.

"The leading scholar on the subject, Harvard professor George Borjas, argues that unskilled migrants do lower the wages of native workers who are competing with them for jobs like catering, child-care and cleaning.

However, the size of the effect is difficult to calculate, and is partly offset by the gains made by employers who can make higher profits because of the lower wages. "


Well thats alright then isnt it? the poor people looking for work in unskilled tasks, can sleep better knowing although they have no money and no job, the people employing the unskilled workers are making more money.

Isnt that just simply.......patronising?

Yes, but that is one of several effects. At the same time there are skilled immigrants as well, who pay a lot more in than they take out, and who might help struggling industries/services. The article does say that the home office estimates immigrants pay £2.5bn more in taxes than they take in benefits. Maybe part of this money could go towards education for British people?

Ah but for which year are these 'figures' ?? Statistics like these are usually bout two years or more out of date...and a lot of immigration has taken place in recent years !

Also don't forget these are Govt figures which are usually 'massaged' to err on the side of looking good (or not as bad) for the Govt. !!

The problem with education is simply some people dont want to do any more than they have to, we need people that will do low skilled jobs, such as working in factories.
Not everyone has the aptitude to be a skilled craftsman, a tradesman, a doctor etc etc what do they do? simply sit and live on handouts while immigrants take jobs they are capable of doing?
And whilst we still have serious unemployment we should not be adding insult to injury to those who for educational reasons cannot obtain a job paying them £20 - £30 grand a year.

Good link but I personally take the figures (especially the British gov ones) with a pinch of salt (you know how they lie)
If it is true then you have to wonder how much better off this country would be if we got rid of the illegals and just kept the legals who are paying taxes.
another thought......dosn't tax go to central govornment while a large part of the cost of supporting the immigrants comes from local government-council tax (thus depriving local people)?

Yes, a lot of immigration has taken place, but some of these immigrants will be paying in as well.

Maybe these data paint a rosy picture, but I am coming up with some data of a somewhat trustworthy source. That beats arguing over gut feelings.
If you can find other statistics (preferably not taken from the BNP site;)), please do...

There's just no pleasing you is there :D


Well, if that's true,I'm sure there's ways to channnel this money back to local people. Think about NHS, education, public transport. At the end of the day it is money, whatever the source.

No, I'm with you there, but if people don't want to do more than they have to, than that is not going to benefit this country in the long run either. This alway has been, and always will be the case. And mind you, some factory work is pretty skilled, and as technology progresses, it will become more so.

:D

kronas saidI have joined this thread a bit late and only had a brief look so sorry if I am saying what someone has allready said.

I seem to remember the government back early last year were denying that this country had a problem with asylum seekers/immigrants/illegals or whatever we wish to call them.
I then seem to remember them backtraccking and saying we had a problem after every newspaper was reporting it.

There was an article in one of the papers this week about stolen identity, and the newspaper I believe obtained passports and birth cirtificates etc from foriegn gangs who are carrying out these activities in this country. I think the government/passport office released figures for lost passports and forged/stolen ones used by these people.

What really gets me going, is if you mention that you do not agree with these people flooding into the country you are classed as a nasty viscous racist by people who just want to give you that label instead of entering a sensible discussion about it:(

to a certain extent i agree with that there should be a stemming of the flow of immigration and some should be transported to other countries but i what i dont like to see is this we dont need them they are sucking the country dry attitude because its not correct there are abusers of any system but there are those who want to come to this country for a better life and work pay there taxes and improve this country for the better

http://www.voice-online.net/content....ow=2153&type=1

This article raised a smile;) just goes to show that not all BNP members appear to be the same.

I am too young to be able to comment on this, but did the Conservatives inherit large debt from the previous labour government? I would not bring this as an excuse for the general state of the country however. We need a state of the nation address...

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Racism is and always has been a big problem, and not just in the UK, a couple of centuries ago people went to the US on the mayflower, and proceded to almost eradicate the indigenous population, same thing has happened wherever we have set foot. Australia, South Africa, etc etc. We can hope that we educate the bigotry out of people, but it seems persistant.

History is often bad on reflection....

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My personal opinion is that we should close the refugee floodgates and ship some of them to france, germany, in fact any country other than the UK. This is not bigotry, this is economics. This country is having trouble sustaining its existing populace, by accepting more immigrants we are stretching the resources even further, taxation etc is causing the closure or relocation of many businesses outside the country, disposable income has never been so low, unemployment is STILL high, we need to curb this, not increase the amounts.

Whilst I agree with the idealogy of "Do not give charity until you have food at home", I fear that international issues are less simplistic. What are the people escaping? Whilst I am very certain that some of the people (at least some) are pushing the point, some are surely genuine.

I am probably very bias in this though, I have a job, flat, money etc etc and have not just lost anything to someone who hid in a freight lorry from France.

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A Prerequisite for living in the UK should be the ability to speak english, (as should the ability to speak german be a prerequisite for living in germany) Or at least show willingness to LEARN the language. Too many times is language / colour / race used as an excuse for "misunderstandings", as is the saying "They grew up in a different culture", sorry, that does NOT hold water. The laws of a country should apply to ALL, Ignorance is NOT a defence.

Whilst I also agree to this in sentiment, I am not sure I would put it so broad. People working were they need to deal with the public should speak English. I am fed up with spelling my name and the day of the week in phonetics to someone that cannot understand or speak English enough to order a portion of fish and chips. (ignore fact that large portion of fish and chip shop owners may be from a abroad - they cook good chips)

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There are as many white people I know who are a***oles as there are asians, in fact some of the most honest people I know are asian, as are some of the least honest. Race or colour does not define a person, a person is defined by his or her actions.

In the same way, I have yet to meet a black person that objects to being called a black person. I have to say that I would take serious issue with anyone thinking that I was being racist for such a comment. I am by no means racist. But logically, if a mans skin is black, he is a black man.
I have to admit that I can only think of a few occasions where it would be useful to describe a persons skin colour, all connection to identifying them. ie: "Did you see Jack come through here, large black man, blue suit etc etc"

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The legal system in the uk is totally messed up, People like tony martin face jail for defending their property, criminals are free to sue the people they

he killed a person, and was judged by the law. OK the law may be wrong, but the theory of the system is good. OK the actuallity of the system may be less good.

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commit crimes against. Asians avoid issues with the police by claiming racial prejudice when they are pulled over for driving a car with 3 bald tyres, a 5 year old tax disc at 60mph through a 20 zone, with no tax / mot / license and they get away with it. It is not their fault they do this, it is the fault of a legal system that allows it to happen. (Although admittedly some police forces DO target non white people)

I agree with this very much so. Some, not some, people "play the race card".

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Thing is, what can we do about it? The laws are decided by people who have little or no idea of what happens in the real world to a majority of people. Even New Labour have no idea, and the idea of that party was for a political force led by the working man. We should scrap the legal system, scrap the politicians and start over again, electing people into power who DO know, creating laws which no longer give favour to criminals / children. Start trying to make Britain Great again.

We have done this throughout history. It doesnt seem to have worked so far, so why repeat a failed theory? I am not sure who still has power to remove UK government, I presume the Queen does. I am sure it could be argues that it would be better that way, at least by some. One person controlling all seems a bad idea to me, but then so does what we have.

Quote:

[Edit] Please note, I do not mean PERMANENTLY close the refugee borders... merely until we can sustain ourselves again, and have a growth economy capable of sustaining them

Overall, there are many answers to the situation. None of the work for everyone. Some of the work for some people. The only sure thing is that "the people" themselves need to change as well as the law etc.

I have typed enough, just wanted to add my bit to the record :-)

Tom