british grand prix axed for 2005
 

its a disaster for british f1 fans.bernie ecclestone should hang his head in shame

andy

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

More info ...

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

Thats me no longer a F1 fan :(

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

i am saddened but not really surprised , the rot set in when middle and far east countries started hosting more races , i am not saying they are bad races , far from it , its that they are more lucrative from a sponsorship point of view :(

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

i suppose we'll just have to wait for this A1 grand prix racing thats all.

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it will be ok if you have sky sports iirc it is only going to be shown there :(

i will be ok though :D

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At the end of the day all the other established circuits pay the same amount and they make a profit. Why cant Silverstone? Its not as if Bernie hasnt helped. He contributed a large sum to the road changes

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no great loss, F1 seems intent on self destruction, its just another nail in its coffin.

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its a shame but i am going to agree with you , it will be interesting to see what this years rule changes bring :erm:

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Agreed also. Hopefully the new rules will revitalise the high speed queue that is F1 currently ! One thing is clear, that all the new rules in the world won't get Silverstone back on the F1 calendar ! :(

It is scandalous that the home and founding country of F1 can't provide a decent state of the art race track. We can do it for football, olympics, tennis, golf etc, etc, why not F1. :mad: It is a major spectator sport. I dunno if I'm right but I heard that as many people watch a Grand Prix as watch Premiership football on a race weekend. (Well maybe not now as it seems to be no more than a high speed procession ). :erm:

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

I'm not surprised at this. For so long now it's been known that the Silverstone event was in trouble.

We may be able to get funding for improvements, but the majority of that funding comes from within the individual sports and the sponsorship it attracts. That works well for events that run over a period of time, or for which the facility can be used regularly over the year. Silverstone has one or two major events in a year and a few minor ones. It's never going to be able to reinvest at that rate, whilst the cost of the F1 race, excluding the sum paid to the F1 owners must be huge with policing, stewards, marshalls and so on. I can see how, despite vast ticket costs, the money just disappears.

Anyway, F1 these days is just a procession. Touring cars and the like are far more interesting, either to see in person, or to watch on TV. F1 has to level the playing field between teams and add some unpredictablitly if anyone is going to remain interested in it. It may currently employ a lot of people in the UK, but the continual money needed and requests for bail outs from the government surely is lower priority than spending wisely on the NHS, law and order, etc.

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

I dont really understand why Rockingham wasnt developed to a standard to be able to take a grand prix. Its a new circuit and im sure it wouldnt have cost much more to improve the pit facilities. However it is a dog to get too.

But then again Indianapolis did the same, spent a bit of money, have a good seating capacity and that place is not that easy to get too either.

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

Silverstone is Old and in need of a great deal of investment. In comparison to the newer circuits around, I'm not suprised that it's going to be dropped.

It's been on the cards for a while ...

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

Stop reading those cards or you will be refered to as Gypsy Nem :D

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i'm not 100% convinced this is the end of the British GP just Bernie's way of forcing Silverstone and the BRDC into action.

if you look at it the only income Silverstone get from a GP is from ticket sales and merchandise and the rest goes to paying Bernie for the race. We pay 9 million but some races in Europe and other areas pay more.

if you look at the circuit it is a classic with lots of fast sweeping corners rather than just 3rd and 4th gear turns which is all Herman Tilke seems able to design.

Spa, Brasil, Imola have worse facilities and maybe even Monza as well.

Of the new cuircuits they are GPs of nowhere that circuit could have been built by anyone on any bit of land

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

Most circuits have some financial support from Governments, who are eager to get into the technology that comes with F1.

From a financial basis, it seems strange that there is no support. The local economy is set to loose a shed load of money

Surely pure economics should mean that the Government/Local Authority should help fill the £3m gap. The BRDC can not run an event at a loss, that threatens their financial security.

However, I do believe that we will have a GP next year. I think, like France, they will be re-instated. But if not - with most teams British based, can they not put pressure on Bernie?

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

it's abit worrying that for a country with our motorsport heritage we only have one circuit that is up to f1 standards and even that neesd to have plenty of money spent on upgrading it.

Donington no longer fits the standards even though it's a great circuit and i don't think they have the money to get a GP and all the upgrades done.

Brands Hatch needs to make improvements and the local council won't grant these as the locals don't want more races and trees cut down etc.

None of the other circuits are big enough for F1.

On the subjects of new circuits I don't know why they don't make a new Nurburgring or old Spa etc. With elevations and fast sweeping corners. All the new circuits are just third and fourth gear corners with a long straight and a hairpin thrown in.

It seems strange that in the old days with little money they races on circuits that were over 8 miles long and now the longest is abuot 3 miles except Spa which used to be 10 anyway.

If you could build an old style circuit with modern safety it could be the greatest in the world.

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Off you go and build one then and get the grand prix :D

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bear in mind it will have to be somewhere that allows tobacco advertising (how did Spa get re-instated this year ?;) )

/me wonders if this money is partly what its about??? - EC countries have banned it for 2005 :shrug:

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

was just thinking that if Coulthard, Button, Frank Williams, Ron Dennis chipped in they could easily make up the shortfall of this event. Add in Mansell, Damon Hill, Eddie Jordan, Jackie Stewart and a few others and it's no money at all to them.

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

if they were only 3 million short and this adds 41 million to the economy in that area then im sure someone could have got some of the companies to chip in

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i think the problem is that the 40 million it makes goes to pubs, hotels, coaches, restaurants etc. it's not one large company that can donate 1 million to get the race still on it's just one small business that will make alot more that weekend

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Sorry, but I think circuits like Bahrain and Singapore are a little more sophisticated than that!

The new circuits have good technical challenges, they have multiple points at which it's possible to pass, they are designed to be a lot safer and they make the old circuits look positively tedious by comparison.

Not strange when you consider how difficult it would be to televise a race on an 8 mile circuit!

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

Le Mans is on an 8 mile circuit and that is televised. Also the Nurburgring 24 race on the old circuit also has TV coverage. Road America is also about 5-6 miles long and that has TV coverage as well.

If a nwe circuit was designed like an old one that could take TV cameras into account. With the amount of coverage F1 gets i don't think it would be a problem with cameras and would make for a few better circuit than we get now.

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

Apology accepted :D

Singapore??? What circuit in Singapore?


Rubbish!! Multiple points to overtake? so what doesnt it happen too often? The only times it seems to happen is when cars are passing technically nferior cars. Even Schummy has resorted to passing cars via pit stops rather than on the track.

The long and short of it is that the cars rely so much on down force tat its no longer possible to over take CONSISTENTLY going into corners.

The track at Bathhurst is long and has plenty of over taking. The only difference being that it is primarily used for touring cars and therefore the aero dynamics are not as significant.

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

the new tracks are ok but they are just third and forth gear corners with a long straight and a hairpin. There is no real variety with any of the circuits apart from Monza, Silverstone and Monaco. I think that is why Ferreri are so dominant as each circuit is basically the same the same team will win all the time.

I've not seen any maps of Turkey but i'm sure that will be similar too. Sure the facilities are great and they look nice and to the drivers they can be abit of a challenfe but for racing they aren't that great.

The only overaking we see is into a hairpin after a long straight.. no one goes round the outside and they are no fast sweeping bends any more.

With 200million they could have built a huge circuit and created real ups and downs or even re-made an old circuit design with modern safety and facilities

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The trans-atlantic flight would put me off.

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I was suggesting that when the Rockingham circuit was built, they could have done what Indianpolis did to included a GP circuit with the oval circuit complex

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Yes, but these are endurance races, not F1. In those overtaking isn't such an important part.

I'm not familiar with that one at all.

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Duh! I meant Shanghai!! :dunce:

What do you mean "rubbish"? And "o what if it doesn't happen too often"

People are *complaining* that F1 is a high speed procession even you say...

... yet you seem to be saying that overtaking is *not* something that you need to worry about in an F1 race!!

The new tracks have places where a faster car with less good handling can get past a slower one that's better in the turns *and* vice versa. Very few of the older tracks have such opportunities which is what can make F1 look tedious.

I agree that the downforce rules need to be changed because the disruption that the current wing setups cause make it much more difficult for cars behind, but with the "linked turns" on tracks like Bahrain and Shanghai it's possible to avoid that happening so much as a car can take a slightly different line into the turns, get the outside in the middle section and then get the inside *without* hitting the "dirty air".

This, again, doesn't happen on the older tracks.

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there is an in field circuit but i think it is only used for bikes. Don't forget that Rockinham is a 1 mile circuit and Indy is a 2.5 mile circuit so there is more space in the middle at Indy. The mistake they made at Indy is too many slow corners before the banked section. it meant cars had to use high downforce settings and made them too slow down the straight.

I've been ro Rockinham twice to watch the CAT series and it could have been built better. You get a great view but there is only really one line on the track so not much overtaking.. the US has far better one mile tracks that do produce overtaking.

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you were stating that it would be difficult to televise an 8 mile circuit.. i was pointing out that it has already been done.

One of the main problems I think we have today with overtaking is shown by the ITV coverage. When they talk to the teams during a race or before and the drivers they all say we are racing this person and are looking into what we can do with the strategy to overtake. Or the other phrase they use is you can't pass here so i waited for the stops.

Next year tyres have to last the whole race.. why not take out refueling as well then the action has to happen on the track they can't wait for a pit stop.

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they race at least touring cars there , not sure what else though :erm:

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Yes, but the point is that the strategies and tactics of an endurance race are not the same as those of an F1 race.

Imagine you're the director of an F1 camera team on an 8 mile circuit and you're trying to keep tabs on all the cameras needed to cover that length to ensure you don't miss showing some of the action!

Which is why I'm saying the new tracks are good because you *can* pass!

Personally I think that the pit-stops should change, but by using a US style system where you can only have 5 people on the other side of the pit wall instead of the 20+ you have in F1.

Currently it is the refuelling that takes up most of the time, unless there's a problem the tyres are finished long before the fuel. If, OTOH, you could only have five people working on the car, tyre changes would be much longer and it would get back to being a *team* sport because the mechanics would have to make sure they got it right.

Re: british grand prix axed for 2005
 

i'd rather have a race where there was too much action than just one pass all race


yes but only usually at one point on the track i.e into the hairpin after a long straight


i'd get rid of the stops altogether.. there aren't any tyre stops next year they have to last the whole race which is why it's strange that refuleing is left in. I just think the FIA is trying to find ways to make the racing artificial as they can't get much action on the track. That's what refueling is meant to do but i don't want my racing done on a spreadsheet and computer simulation that says doing this will mean we can pass in the pits.

That's what the one lap qualifying and one engine per weekend were also mant to do.. it was meant to make the front runners have a mistake on their run or loose an engine and have to start near the back and overtake.

What i'd like to get rid of on cost grounds is all the sensors and computers.. why not just let the driver feel and work out what the car is doing rather than a computer.. it puts things back into the drivers hands and means they can make more of a difference..

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Did you *watch* the F1 GPs in Bahrain and Shanghai? There was a *lot* of passing going on and *not* just "into the hairpin" which is frankly a better description of older F1 tracks (Monaco being the perfect example!)

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lol, before rockingham was built there was nothing there. What i was saying is that with a bit of forward planning and confidence in what they were building this circuit COULD have included a grand prix standard circuit as well as an oval in the same way as Indianapolis.

There are many ovals in the USA that also include a road circuit.

Infact i cant really see why it wouldnt be entertaining to include on oval race in the GP season