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-   -   Been Conned! or mislead (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=18111)

david_w2k 29-09-2004 13:39
Been Conned! or mislead
 
Some of you may say that i/we were stupid for signing it but...(dont say it).

Basically started uni the other day in a shared house. Second day this NTL sales guy comes over, talking fast like some car sales man. He lead us to believe that if we signed the application we would get a free trial and could change our minds at any time before installation and during the trial period. We thought this was fair enough, never planning on keeping the service becuase we are poor.

Anyway i stupidly signed it while he was blasting our ears with crap. Streight afterwards we looked at it and he has sneekily ticked the 123 phone package and given us (ME! under my name!) a 12 MONTH contract :) I KNOW I KNOW i was stupid for signing but he told us we were not getting the phone. The problem i am now worried about is the we don't own the line, it is owned my the uni and only takes incoming calls. Does this now mean NTL can just take this line? If so im in trouble :(

On the form we sent off the little slip which is the cancellation, but will this work as they will probably get this before that gentleman gives the form to NTL?

I just dont need this to worry about right now with my first week at uni. Any ideas guys? Can i give any of you who work here my address and you make sure it is cancelled?

The guy also told us that the contract only starts from installation and we can tell the engineer to go away and that would be that? I believed him at the time but i think its complete and utter lies.

..I thought NTL was alright until now:( :confused: :erm: :shocked:

Graham F 29-09-2004 14:05
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
if its not installed tell the tech u changed your mind when they come to install, if you are installed ring ntl and use your 5 day right to cancel after install.

my advice is to enjoy your first few weeks at uni :D

bopdude 29-09-2004 14:05
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Stick around, i'm sure one of the ntl cs team can sort out / advise you soon :tu:

bob_builder 29-09-2004 14:21
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Seems like he was telling you a mixed story.

NTL are currently running a 60-day free broadband trial but only if you also take the telephone line.

There is a specific contract for students that is only 9 months instead of the usual 12 but that cannot be used with the free broadband trial.

I cannot see how NTL can take over a phone line that they do not own so I would assume they intend to install another one.

As others have said, if you refuse the installation you should not have to pay anything.

Chris W 29-09-2004 14:22
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
I would second what scooby has said, but personally i would complain about the salesman's conduct as well. Very bad :td:

punky 29-09-2004 14:31
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
You need to report that salesman definitely.

And also, there is a 14 day cooling off period with every contract, so regardless if it has been installed or not, if it has been less than 14 days til signing, you can call up and cancel.

simpsonsFAN 29-09-2004 14:31
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
You dident say witch ntl service you ordered, but all of them need a telephone line anyway!, and all of them come included in the price, eg you carnt get ntl tv without teleco.

I doubt you have been conned so dont worry about it.

-Chris

Graham F 29-09-2004 14:33
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by simpsonsFAN
You dident say witch ntl service you ordered, but all of them need a telephone line anyway!, and all of them come included in the price, eg you carnt get ntl tv without teleco.

I doubt you have been conned so dont worry about it.

-Chris
not quite true, you DON'T need a phone line for BB

gary_580 29-09-2004 14:35
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Just cancel now before they install and then get the salesman to come out again but be more careful the second time

david_w2k 29-09-2004 15:52
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Cheers guys, sounds like i dont have too much to worry about. Nothing has been installed yet so if they do still come I will just tell them that we have changed our minds. The telephone wont change over before they come will it? Cheers, guys
David

(might not be able to reply until tomorrow because my internet at home is still not set up) - We didnt order the BB as we have free bt internet bb at home

Chris W 29-09-2004 16:15
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by david_w2k
Cheers guys, sounds like i dont have too much to worry about. Nothing has been installed yet so if they do still come I will just tell them that we have changed our minds. The telephone wont change over before they come will it? Cheers, guys
David

(might not be able to reply until tomorrow because my internet at home is still not set up) - We didnt order the BB as we have free bt internet bb at home
So are you just having digital tv? if so, as far as i know, you have to have a phone line as well. It is a bundled package.

punky 29-09-2004 16:30
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Could you be charged for a call out though if you just turn the installer away at the door? Wouldn't you have to cancel it through CS anyway?

I'd sort it out before the installer comes out. Plus it isn't really fair on other people to deliberately waste an installer's time.

Graham F 29-09-2004 16:58
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by punky
Could you be charged for a call out though if you just turn the installer away at the door? Wouldn't you have to cancel it through CS anyway?

I'd sort it out before the installer comes out. Plus it isn't really fair on other people to deliberately waste an installer's time.
they wouldn't be charged for anything if they did that as loads of ppl do it:)

but you have a point abt it being fair

zoombini 29-09-2004 17:04
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
I have just had BB installed, CM only and I (AFAIK) have it free for 60 days.

I do not have the phone installed, there was no mention of phone access.

Graham F 29-09-2004 17:06
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoombini
I have just had BB installed, CM only and I (AFAIK) have it free for 60 days.

I do not have the phone installed, there was no mention of phone access.
From what i understand the issue was they thought they were getting a trial that they could use then stop the product after that, when infact it is 60 days free tied into a contract. A subtile difference

Chris 29-09-2004 17:33
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
No matter what NTL has done, whether you have had the service installed or not, if a salesman came uninvited to your door and you signed something there and then, you are legally entitled to take advantage of your 'cooling off' period, which is seven days. Admittedly it is highly uinlikely that they will get your service installed within 7 days of you ordering it, but if they did, you still have the right to cancel your 12-month contract with NTL. However, you might find that you remain liable for the cost of the actual install itself.

Useful info and FAQs from the Consumer Protection Regulations 1987 and 1998 are here: http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/doorstep.htm

Chris 29-09-2004 17:35
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by simpsonsFAN
You dident say witch ntl service you ordered, but all of them need a telephone line anyway!, and all of them come included in the price, eg you carnt get ntl tv without teleco.

I doubt you have been conned so dont worry about it.

-Chris
Dodgy advice Chris. Did you find this out on a different, less trustworthy NTL-orientated site? :p: You don't get compelled to take any other NTL service bundled if you subscribe to Broadband.

david_w2k 29-09-2004 17:39
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby
From what i understand the issue was they thought they were getting a trial that they could use then stop the product after that, when infact it is 60 days free tied into a contract. A subtile difference
Yeah thats right. I have send off the cancellation slip on the form in the post already, is this enough to cancel it?

EDITED^

Graham F 29-09-2004 17:48
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by david_w2k
Yeah thats right. I have send off the cancellation slip on the form in the post already, this is enough to cancel it?
yes...but like i said you can cancel on doorstep if needs be, don't worry abt relax and enjoy your first few weeks of uni :drunk:

Ramrod 29-09-2004 17:48
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by punky

And also, there is a 14 day cooling off period with every contract, so regardless if it has been installed or not, if it has been less than 14 days til signing, you can call up and cancel.
Exactly! So don't worry about it david_w2k :)

david_w2k 29-09-2004 17:50
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Ok will do guys:) Having a great time:D Just wanted that little worry out the way!

Thanks again, been a great help (as usual!) :)

bob_builder 29-09-2004 18:39
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoombini
I have just had BB installed, CM only and I (AFAIK) have it free for 60 days.

I do not have the phone installed, there was no mention of phone access.
I cannot find any mention of the 60-day trial (possibly because it is ending tomorrow) on the internet. But it definately said on the flier I read last night at home that the 60-day trial was not applicable to people who only have broadband. You may still get it free for 60-days, however.

Motorman 29-09-2004 23:28
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Hang on am I missing somthing here
What exactly did the salesman do wrong?

He led you through the best offer available
and
Sorted out all the paperwork and made sure the deal goes through in an orderly fashion


These guys are out in all weathers getting new business for the company.
I'm told sometimes the job isnt too pleasant, meeting Old Customers.

Lets give credit where credit is due. YOu might not have liked him, but he didnt do you any harm

Motorman 29-09-2004 23:31
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby
From what i understand the issue was they thought they were getting a trial that they could use then stop the product after that, when infact it is 60 days free tied into a contract. A subtile difference
No mate.
It is a free trial for 60 days.
If the customer cancels on day 59, the service will stop and nothing will be owed.
If there is no cancellation, then the contract will start, and will be for a further 10 months. ( 12 months less 2 already taken).

Scarlett 02-10-2004 09:26
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorman
Hang on am I missing somthing here
What exactly did the salesman do wrong?
Have a look at the original post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by david_w2k
He lead us to believe that if we signed the application we would get a free trial and could change our minds at any time before installation and during the trial period. We thought this was fair enough, never planning on keeping the service becuase we are poor.

Anyway i stupidly signed it while he was blasting our ears with crap. Streight afterwards we looked at it and he has sneekily ticked the 123 phone package and given us (ME! under my name!) a 12 MONTH contract I KNOW I KNOW i was stupid for signing but he told us we were not getting the phone. The problem i am now worried about is the we don't own the line, it is owned my the uni and only takes incoming calls. Does this now mean NTL can just take this line? If so im in trouble
He sold them something that was unsiutable for them (12 month contract for a student rather then 9 month)
Gave them a phone line that, although it was required for the offer, was not expected. From the post looks like this was NEVER made clear.
He told them that the afore mentioned phone line WOULD NOT BE FITTED despite the fact that it was required for the offer.
Also this was put under david_w2k's name which from the post it appears was also not made clear by the salesman.

This is precisly the sort of sales tatic which companies get fined for.

Motorman 05-10-2004 11:45
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlett
Have a look at the original post...



He sold them something that was unsiutable for them (12 month contract for a student rather then 9 month)
Gave them a phone line that, although it was required for the offer, was not expected. From the post looks like this was NEVER made clear.
He told them that the afore mentioned phone line WOULD NOT BE FITTED despite the fact that it was required for the offer.
Also this was put under david_w2k's name which from the post it appears was also not made clear by the salesman.

This is precisly the sort of sales tatic which companies get fined for.
Thanks for your reply.
All student contracts are over 9 months.
All contracts are printed with a default 12 months.
Also I dont know what the complaint is as the phone line is included in the price, which means it is free. IF the salesman ticked the box is that really a bad thing?
its a bit like ordering health insurance and ticking the box which says 'would you like to recieve your free gift'? My guess is that it gets ticked anyway, because the salesman is honest as the day is long and just wants the customer to get the best deal.

Bifta 05-10-2004 11:51
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorman
because the salesman is honest as the day is long and just wants the customer to get the best deal.
:rofl:

Chris 05-10-2004 12:07
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorman
Also I dont know what the complaint is as the phone line is included in the price, which means it is free.
Oh why, oh why, oh why am I still reading this complete untruth about NTL's 'free' telephone line? NTL gave up that pretence a long time ago when they realised just how uncompetitive it makes their basic DTV package look when compared to $ky.

You need look no further than here for the truth:

http://www.home.ntl.com/icat/television

But to save you looking, here is the crunch sentence, in unhelpful grey text at the bottom of the page:

Quote:
Price is exclusive of £9.50 telephone line rental which must be purchased with your TV package
So, NTL's basic DTV package is, supposedly, £10 - but you can't actually get it for £10, because you have to *purchase* - i.e. pay money for - a telephone line in addition. The family pack is, supposedly, £19.50 - but you can't actually get it for £19.50 because you have to *purchase* a telephone line in addition. A telephone line which, incidentally, might be a pound cheaper than BT's but comes with no calls bundled for that basic price and an extremely limited ability to access cheaper, third-party service providers.

The tragedy here is that NTL's basic TV package, once denuded of the phone line, is actually better value than $ky. You get more channels than the most basic $ky pack and it's £3.50 cheaper than the basic $ky pack.

I'm not about to get into a lengthy comparison of all ntl and $ky's equivalent packages - suffice it to say that I think NTL's worst enemy in this regard is the NTL marketing department.

Dave Stones 05-10-2004 12:17
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
slightly off-topic, but a similar thing seems to happen around here with telewest. there are always TW salesmen calling round trying to sell us their services, we here have had three separate ones calling... they seemed to get confused when i got our contract out and showed it them...

it is definitely very high-pressure though, and they are very smooth-talking... :erm:

Pierre 05-10-2004 13:19
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Stones
slightly off-topic, but a similar thing seems to happen around here with telewest. there are always TW salesmen calling round trying to sell us their services, we here have had three separate ones calling... they seemed to get confused when i got our contract out and showed it them...

it is definitely very high-pressure though, and they are very smooth-talking... :erm:
It's a salesmans job to get you to sign on the dotted the line.

Quite frankly you are a fool to sign for anything there and then.

I have have had Npower, ntl, telewest, and other salesman cold call to my door many times and I do the same every time.

I let them go through their patter, then I say thankyou, but I'd like to think about it a bit more and ask them to leave all the paperwork and to come back tomorrow. I then read it at depth in peace without some guy in a blazer with shiny buttons, wearing questionalble afershave looking over my shoulder.

Sometimes they try, "you have to sign now to take advantage of this offer" in that case just say no thanks.

If he wants the sale, he'll come back and then I'll have some questions for him after thoroughly reading the documents.

Motorman 09-10-2004 23:56
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
...if we signed the application we would get a free trial and could change our minds at any time before installation and during the trial period...
...The guy also told us that the contract only starts from installation and we can tell the engineer to go away and that would be that

Originally Posted by Motorman
because the salesman is honest as the day is long and just wants the customer to get the best deal.
Yep. I'd say he signed you for the best deal around at the time.
apparently the 60 day trial is no longer available.

ntl are struggling with Harmiony new computer system, it would be interesting to see if the student ever got installed at all

Motorman 16-10-2004 01:42
Re: Been Conned! or mislead
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by david_w2k
Some of you may say that i/we were stupid for signing it but...(dont say it).

Basically started uni the other day in a shared house. Second day this NTL sales guy comes over, talking fast like some car sales man. He lead us to believe that if we signed the application we would get a free trial and could change our minds at any time before installation and during the trial period. We thought this was fair enough, never planning on keeping the service becuase we are poor.

Anyway i stupidly signed it while he was blasting our ears with crap. Streight afterwards we looked at it and he has sneekily ticked the 123 phone package and given us (ME! under my name!) a 12 MONTH contract :) I KNOW I KNOW i was stupid for signing but he told us we were not getting the phone. The problem i am now worried about is the we don't own the line, it is owned my the uni and only takes incoming calls. Does this now mean NTL can just take this line? If so im in trouble :(

On the form we sent off the little slip which is the cancellation, but will this work as they will probably get this before that gentleman gives the form to NTL?

I just dont need this to worry about right now with my first week at uni. Any ideas guys? Can i give any of you who work here my address and you make sure it is cancelled?

The guy also told us that the contract only starts from installation and we can tell the engineer to go away and that would be that? I believed him at the time but i think its complete and utter lies.

..I thought NTL was alright until now:( :confused: :erm: :shocked:



Been conned or mislead!


Hi David. Im sorry but I still dont understand why you are so angry at the rep.
He didnt really do you any harm.
You might not have liked him, but I still think that he gave you the best deal that was availble at the time.

Neither the 9 month Student contract nor the Free trial are available anymore

I would like to know more about the presentation he made. Was he rude, or did he say anything untrue?
When he was 'blasting your ears with crap' what do you really mean.
==
I thank you for the opportunity to discuss this, why i sent you a pm.


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