DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

Could someone explain to me, in laymans terms, what the difference is between DOCSIS and DAVIC networks. I have been informed that I live in a DAVIC area (Glasgow) and this is the reason why I cant receive a Samsung STB. I have also read that DOCSIS is the better service, why is this?

Could this explain why I am having performance issues with my TV service (takes an age to change channels, Interactive services constantly crashing).

Is there any plans to update my area, and others, to DOCSIS at any point or will NTL just leave it as is.

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

I think there is another thread on here about this somewhere try doing a forum post search [unless someone finds it beforehand?]

as far as i understand ntl has two different types of software or davic & docsis i believe docsis is ex C&W area but might be wrong and i think it does not work with davic type stb's? again might be incorrect?

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

Original NTL areas use DAVIC for TV and EuroDOCSIS for broadband.
Ex-C&W areas use DOCSIS for both.

This is why you cannot use a Samsung STB in an original NTL area and is also why you cannot have broadband though the STB like you can in an Ex-C&W area.

As far as the differences between them, apart from being totally different protocols, there should be no reason why one is any better than the other.

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

Almost. NTL used DAVIC for STB, C&W used DOCSIS for STBs with provision for upgrading to EuroDOCSIS when this became available.

NTL then used DOCSIS for their cable modem broadband service alongside the existing DAVIC STBs. C&W became ntl and upgraded to EuroDOCSIS, then ntl launched cable modem broadband on the same routers. There the matter rests at present.

There are no technical reasons why you can't do the last step in reverse and launch DOCSIS STBs on the original ntl area routers.

Neither's really better, but it's a pain having both and DAVIC STBs are not exactly easy to buy these days. DOCSIS won the battle, it's the VHS to DAVIC's Betamax. The future, in other words (there's an upgrade path emerging, in fact).

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

So, if I can get this the right way round this time:

Original NTL areas use DAVIC for TV and DOCSIS for broadband.
Ex-C&W areas use EuroDOCSIS for both.

I believe that Pace produced a dual format STB that could work in either Original NTL or Ex-C&W areas and I thought that the idea was to move Original NTL people to this box and continue using DAVIC for the mean-time. Then, once everybody had the new box, switch off the DAVIC Langley stream and use the Bromley stream for all NTL boxes.

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

The Pace 4010, used in Langley areas, is basically a (Bromley) 4000 with a dual-protocol Davic/Docsis modem. At the moment, they're all running on Davic mode, but this is just down to the software: the next upgrade could switch them to Docsis. Of course, then the box is no different to the (cheaper) 4000, so you may as well just start using them. And once you've started using 4000s, you can start using Samsungs, too...

Using the same boxes would not only be cheaper for NTL, but would obviously go a long way to full integration of the two platforms. It's doubtful that the Davic return path system will ever be turned off however: there are still too many 4001s out there.

As an aside, switching the 4010s to Docsis would allow them to be used for STB broadband, which isn't currently available on Langley.

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

There are certain Langley areas at the moment recieving Samsung STB's to trial the network. If it is successful I am sure there will be a full rollout.

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

That's supposed to be secret! ;)

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

Not really Tristan, they fitted one at ours last week before we sent it all back to them :)

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

We got a replacement box last month but it was another Pace 4001 :(

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

Amazed that no-one has yet tackled the obvious starting point in answering the original question at the top of this thread ... DAVIC and DOCSIS are, apparently, acronyms. What do they stand for?

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

Digital Audio-Visual Council, and
Data Over Cable Service Interface Specification

:)

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

How did i know that Jimbo king of aconyms would have the answer :p:

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

Your connection working properly again yet Mr 'Wardriven' ;)

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

hang on a sec,

the samsung website says that the samsung SMT-2100C box has a "Inbuilt DOCSIS & EuroDOCSIS 1.0 /1.1 compliant cable modem", so there is no reason why it shouldent work on langley, if only as a cable modem?

here: http://www.samsung.com/Products/Home..._SMT_2100C.htm

-Chris

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

It works fine - however it's not a recognised cable modem type so you can't provision it.

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

oh ok, but what does that mean exactly?,
What would a samsung box do if plugged into a origional ntl area?,
**cough ebay**,
maby downloading ntl samsung-langley beta software?! (i wish, lol).

-Chris

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

If you plugged in a Samsung Bromley box - nothing really/won't work (he says :erm: )
If you plugged in a Samsung Langley box - working service (minus unsubscribed channels)

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

The Samsung boxes for Langley and Bromley are the same, hardware-wise. The software is different, though.

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

Bring you to my attention!

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

Hey Tristan, you're slipping. There are actually more differences in the hardware than the software. ;)

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

Read up my friend should answer your question.

And no, Samsungs certainly won't be handed out on the Langley platform just as a cable modem, tres expensive for use just as that.

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

:blush:

Oh dear! Just as well I'm leaving!

Out of interest though, what differences? If it's a Docsis-based box, wouldn't it make sense (from a financial point of view if nothing else) to use the same box for Langley as is on Bromley?

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

Like what? AFAIK there's only one type of Samsung STB hardware.

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

You have only seen one type of samsung stb hardware, but there is noway that one peice of hardware specifically designed for one platform is going to work streight away when plugged into another. (eg, my vcr wont play NTSC tapes because its a old peice of junk, that i havent used in years, **reminding you of the pace stb's?, lol,** and because its a PAL vcr), so we must assume that there must be different models of this samsung stb.

What i would like to know is what would happen if i plugged a samsung stb into langley area!, (eg, some horrible thing like a error message, it catching fire, blowing up, etc).

-Chris

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

I'm not assuming anything, I have an example of every ntl STB on my desk at work and have a certain degree of knowledge of their innards.

Why not? Define the platform differences that would prevent this, and which ones require a hardware rather than software solution.

It won't blow up, that's for sure.

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

If they decided to put together a software build for it, the Pace 4010 would work perfectly happily on Bromley. Once they've got Docsis STBs working, and if BBKing would allow them to be provisioned, and they put together a software build for it, there would be nothing stopping the 4000 being used on Langley either.

The cable modem inside it would try and register with the network, and the computer on BBKing's desk would tell it where to go. The TV part wouldn't work -- as far as I know the encryption scheme on Langley is different, never mind anything else. No fires, though.

Re: DAVIC and DOCSIS
 

The Set Tops use programmable DSPs, not ASICs to encode/decode signals, the encryption is programmable, the decoding and channel schema programmable, so the only real difference between the platforms is software, hardware wise they are identical.

So long as el boxen is told what to do and how to do it with firmware no problems, just as your PC can play Quake and Doom so long as the program tells it how. Very fortunately for me it's not rocket science and apart from the actual writing of the firmware relatively painless to appreciate. A digital cable STB is actually a relatively simple beastie once broken down into its' components :)