smoking and the pub
 

if this really starts to bite dont complain if your taxes start going through the roof :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd:
1 of the biggest revenue earners for the govt may be going to go into decline , the result --------- all the other taxes will go up :erm:
and i have donned my nomex for the ineviatable flaming i will get for this , no worries i am fire proofed :D :D :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

As a non smoker and beliver in free will its not a biggie either way to me, although if given a choice i would prefer not to be in a busy smoke filled bar, but as you mention, its coming and in fact its here, past a pub the other week that had a sandwhich board outside proclaiming to be " smoke free "


Get used to it smokers, its coming

Re: smoking and the pub
 

i have said many times before smoking bans in public places will do good for the nations health, people will continue to smoke but in their own homes, i expect a revenue drop slightly for the cigarette manufacturers and gordon brown to lose some revenue but im sure it wont be a huge impact.

im sure the government will recoup the money some other way.

proberbly when they introduce pay per mile for motorists, imagine how much that will rake in....

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Hope its implemented here, fed up of coming out of pubs/clubs/pool venues stinking of dirty smoke (Not normal smoke, dirty smoke :mad:)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

There are quite a few pubs in Donegal have either closed down or lost a huge amount of revenue due to the smoking ban in Ireland, people who maintain and or sell cigarette vending machines will lose their job, newsagents will miss out on impulse buy's when people buy their fags ... I suppose the off license trade will increase but they'd be better off segregating smokers, cordon off half the pub for those that want to smoke and ventilate it properly.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I'm a smoker, but i'd be happy for the ban. I'd much rather go out and have a drink in a smoke free atmosphere

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Be interesting to see the effect on the NHS. AFAIK the revenue that the NHS gets (indirectly) from the taxes on tobacco is far greater than the cost of treating smokers.

Anyway, back on topic.

Although I don't smoke, I actually don't have any problem with people smoking in bars or pubs. I don't even mind drinking or eating in a smoking area (although given the choice I do go for the non-smoking area).

Having said that, I live with a smoker (always have), so I smell of smoke already.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Unless I'm missing something, I haven't seen a mention of an outright smoking ban in the article (as many people seem to think).

As a smoker, I'm not too bothered with not smoking at the bar. In fact, many places don't allow that at the moment. And 80% of pub space would simply seem to suggest more non-smoking areas, which I can deal with provided there is an area where you can light up.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

This is just the start though hopefully.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

and as a devotee of the wicked weed , i hope you dont complain when the taxes go up to maintain the status quo :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

'course a will... but at least I'l smell nice & maybe live a bit longer;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Why don't we ban drinking in pubs too whilst we're at it? Oh and bungee jumping too?

Can adults really not make up their own minds whether to go to (or work in) a pub where people smoke?

The points on tax are very valid:

Guinness was only last week blaming the smoking ban in Eire for large drops in sales..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3621386.stm

So the revenue will decrease not only from tax on cigarettes but also on alcohol and income tax....

The Publican (trade magazine) reports a 16% drop in turnover in all pubs in Eire, plus a 14% drop in staffing levels in the year living with the smoking ban.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I read today that 80% of respondents in the poll (that the top 5 breweries are basing the restrictions on) would prefer a smoke free environment.

Clearly the breweries are expecting a huge upsurge in trade based on this, whereas in reality its the 20% minority that actually go to the pub.

My local recently instigated the 'no smoking at the bar' rule. Since the pub is open plan, based round a large 'U' shaped bar, it has developed into a nonsensical charade wherin they are trying to define abstract spaces as acceptable (or not) in which to have a lit cigarette. (stand behind the line of the wooden floor surround to the bar its OK to smoke?!)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Because the Government collects £1.2 billion from the sales of alcohol and it costs £2 billion to treat the effects of alcohol, the Government collect £700 million from smokers each year and it costs £200 million per year to treat smoking related diseases, alcohol sales will always go through the roof each year because of the binge drinking effect we have in the UK.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Thats a handy excuse for guinness. (Diageo)
Takes away from them raising their prices by 6 odd %, and are in dispute with a lot of publicans in Dublin

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that shutting all pubs would be good for the country?

Also, as there is 1/2 a Billion quid excess from tax on tobacco, shouldn't the government be encouraging more smoking rather than trying to ban it in some places?

Must be that the 20% do an awful lot of drinking too then.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The decsion is really; As a non smoker, which do you prefer - Paying more taxes and living longer due to the decreased risk of passive smoking or being wealthier as a non smoker?

Smoking directly causes lots of diseases. Lung cancer is the well known one. But there are others for example; Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, Heart Disease, Other cancers (Throat, nose, mouth, pancreas, leukaemia etc), Circulatory problems, impotence, asthma, etc etc)

People often use the "Well I could go out today and get run over by a bus, so I might as well enjoy myself smoking...." To that I reply that being run over by a bus is probably a kinder way to die than smoking. Believe me, I have seen many people die from smoking and it is painful, degrading, scary (as you can't breathe) and slow.

You have to balance the pain/gain.

Any ban I would support wholeheartedly

Re: smoking and the pub
 

good points there, Salu, I can certainly confirm the scarey bit - I had a nasty chest infection a few weeks ago & the sensation of trying to breathe & not a lot happening is VERY scarey - which makes you panic, so you need more air, which you can't get, so you panic some more............

- so far, since then, I have been able to stop smoking. ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

FFS, they'll be banning cars and peanuts next..... :rolleyes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

They banned beef due to possible health risks. So a smoking ban in public must be a good thing. The sooner the better for me and my children

Re: smoking and the pub
 

And now it's not banned. What about cars and their health threatening pollutants?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I will be pleased to attend non-smoking pubs, theres nothing worse than getting home at 3am being drunk but still having to jump in the shower to get the terrible smell of smoke off your body and out of your hair. (I dont suppose Russ will appreciatem it) :D

I dont think smokers realise how badly the stuff smells to people who dont smoke, I never complain about smoking and accept it in the pub. I will certainly be happy to be without it though!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

it's getting that way now, I was really glad I had decided to pack it in before going on holiday, or I would have been 'climbing the walls' - Airports seem to be arranged to cause smokers maximum inconvenience, nowadays - smoking only allowed in designated areas, which are cunningly located just far enough away from the departure lounge to guarantee you will miss your boarding call if you go for one. So then you suffer 9 hours on the no smoking plane, before landing at another airport that arranges baggage check out & immigration to last just long enough that you barely make the transfer coach (non smoking), which dumps you at the hotel, where, finally, you can have that fag you've been craving for the last 15 hours :erm:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But the whole issue is one of choice. Smokers know the risks and can make an informed decision. Whether you support a ban or not, the issue is one of people's rights and that of a nanny state.

I'm all for more non-smoking pubs or smoke-free sections, as this increases that freedom of choice.

Taking that choice away is part of a bigger issue of control over people - which for a government obessessed with 'liberating' other countries is somewhat hypocritical in my opinion.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I'd like to point out that I don't have any of them ailments, my gran who smoked never died from any of them (or anything even remotely smoking related) my other gran who is still alive and over 80 (and smokes) has none of them, in fact, I can safely say as far as I know, not a single person I know or have known has had or has died from anything that could be construed as smoking related. I increase my risk (apparently) through smoking of contracting lung cancer, so? Eating meat that's slightly charcoaled is apparently supposed to increase your risk of cancer, are you do-gooders going to give up barbecues?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

And what about my choice/right as a non-smoker NOT to breathe in 2nd hand smoke?

Smoking per se should not be banned as that would then fulfill your point above but I wouldn't call this removing choice so much as creating a law for the good of everyone.

My not smoking could not offend or harm the person next to me...but someone smoking next to me would. If the smoker enforces his right/choice to smoke then he will be removing mine, not to. If I don't smoke I will not affect him. The smoking ban would ensure that I could exercise mine. The smoker, however can go outside or pop home etc...


We all have immunity and defenses against different diseases. That is why I can suffer with a cold while you breathe easily. Smoking won't give everyone lung cancer but will increase your chances. Burnt meat is a carcinogen true but much much less harmful than smoking. Your granny's are more likely to have had chest infections too as the smoke will paralyse the little hairs on your wind pipe (villi) that remove excess mucus from your lungs. I would also hazard a guess that they are slight in build which may mask peripheral circulation diseases from being apparent??

Maybe I shouldn't make wild guesses.....

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yeah, ok - you drive twenty minutes into town on the weekend to do your shopping - just nipping home isn't always an option...




No you shouldn't. Biftas gran might be as big as a house and fit as a butchers dog - how would you know??? :erm:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Go outside then.




It is only an observation. In my clinical experience I have observed (maybe coincidently) that the type of person who can smoke like a chimney and lives healthily in their 80's are small, slight in stature, keep their minds exercised and probably lucky with their allocation of good genes. Not scientifically proven, just an observation. It will be interesting to hear from Bifta though..

[prepares for egg on face and lifts coat towards shoulder]

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But still a risk that people are willing to take.

I'm sure they've had no more than anyone else has.

No, maybe you shouldn't, one of them died 2 weeks ago from a meningococcal infection (go on, I dare you to blame smoking) and the other is in perfect health, but topping 20 stone plus at least (much like the other)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Sorry to hear about that Bifta. No I wouldn't blame everything on smoking. Only those diseases that have been scientifically proven to be exacerbated by smoking.

Typical....lesson learnt.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

So, we've established that smoking doesn't neccessarily lead to illness then?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Peanuts....? :afire: They should totally be abolished! (esp for athsma sufferers like me! ;) )

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Thought you'd pick up on that sooner or later... ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

There'll be people who smoke peanuts somewhere.....grind them up and stick um in a rizzla

Re: smoking and the pub
 

So - what happens with a pub that has banned smoking, so everyone who wants to have a fag has to go outside, when they want to have a 'lock in' :dozey: :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Hi

Coming to this late BUT :)

As a reformed smoker you would expect me to say yes to the ban. However i remember how upset i got when other adults tried to tell me what i could and could not do. Sooooo if you want to smoke then go to pubs were you can smoke, if you dont then go to pubs that dont allow it. If you are in a pub then it goes you are a adult and should be able to make your own mind up. I did i stopped smoking and now i only go to pubs that have banned smoking. You see i am a adult therefor i made my own mind up. ;) :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But surely you must understand that they were only "telling you what to do" because of the direct effect of what you were doing was having on them?

Would you object if I sat next to you in a pub and farted all night?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

POSSIBLE effect, whiners like that however irritate me and probably get my blood pressure up which could POSSIBLY lead to a heart attack, so, if they don't like smoke, go somewhere without smoke, save yourselves lung cancer and me a coronary.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

If that wasn't sarcastic then you are very selfish.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

If a non-smoker chooses to spend time in an area that they know will be full of smoke (e.g. a pub) then what the hell gives them the right to start complaining? I don't walk into a Nuclear power station and start dictating to them!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Most pubs that I have been into do not have sealed smoking chambers. Smoke is free to roam and roam it does. If I saw that a pub was "Smoking only" then I would simply not go in. However most pubs allow smoking and have a designated area to do so. But this smoke drifts and frankly spoils my meal if I am eating.

We have no choice at the moment. If we want to go into a pub then most of the time it will be full of smoke. That is what i am objecting to.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:LOL:

We love you Bifta, We do!
We love you Bifta, We do!
We love you Bifta, We do!
Oohhhhhhh! Bifta we love you! :D

(I couldn't rep you again so soon... ;) )

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yes, the designated area is normally called "Everywhere but the restaurant", if you don't like people smoking in a pub, don't whine at the people who are exercising their right to smoke in a smoking area, whine at the landlord.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:clap:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Not in the slightest, I'd be sitting at a table with at least 6 smokers, I'm fairly sure between us we could mask the smell.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Someone please green rep Bifta on my behalf????? :D:D:D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Done :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I have seen the other side.............a person taking 3 years to die as a direct result of smoking. Her last few months were un-imaginable I would defy any one to have watch those last few days and then say to her and the family it was just bad luck !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Why would anyone go to a place that they find objectionable :confused:

If a pub plays loud music so you can't hear yourself think then you go to a different pub don't you?

I don't shop in my local Asda because it is full of scrotes and the staff are numpties - I go to a different shop.

If this is what the "majority of people" want then why haven't the pubs all voluntarily banned smoking? ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Do you see any smokers complaining about the risk of contracting lung cancer? The whole point is that pubs are a hive for smokers, non-smokers are complaining that they don't want to go to a pub full of smoke, but that's all they do ... complain! To the wrong people! What do they think we're going to do? Stop smoking to shut them up?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

and here we go , another lively thread in progress , please dont let it get personal ;) , for my 2p the pubs dont help themselves , surely in this day and age extraction systems could be installed to pull the smoke away and therefore reach a compromise for everyone :erm:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Being as most pubs are part of large chains, why don't they just make one of their pubs in each area non-smoking?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I think it depends where you live, in my town there are no pubs (Yet( that are part of a big chain, they are all free houses and independently owned.

Not one single pub has a non-smoking area, most of the pubs are small so it is impossible to create non-smoking areas. However on a Friday/Saturday night in my local very few people smoke, so I guess a ban in that one would not really affect their trade. i think the pub has its fair share of smokers, but theres just not enough room to have a fag in there!

Its always remarked how there is very little trouble for such a busy pub, but theres no room to fight in there anyway. :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I surpose that is why so many people try to give up !

Re: smoking and the pub
 

What about the country pubs. Its a way of life for some of the ol boys, who have served queen and country. They goto a pub to have a few smokes a few beers play doms ect. For some people a drink and a smoke in their local is all they have in life. Is it fair to take it away from them??

Re: smoking and the pub
 

nope i reckon :tu:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The pub chains seem to be wanting to put a 'what the customer wants' spin on banning smoking at the bar - it is also a way they could keep costs lower on insurance against potential claims by bar staff, for 'smoking related diseases' :shrug:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Oh look yet another very long thread about banning smoking. :rolleyes:

Incog.A lifelong non smoker who always found the smokers to be far more interesting characters than non smokers. ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yep, I agree. It's a fact that people with flawed characters (ie. those with addictive personalities/ living in denial) are more interesting :D
:Sprint:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But I do have an addictive personality.I'm addicted to food mainly in the form of chocolate.I'm presently on the choccy wagon and frankly I'm not nice to know. :(

IF there was ANY choccy in the house at this minute I'd be chewing on it.Thankfully it's been p*ssing down all day so I've been able to resist going out to buy any.Fruit is just not a substitute. :(

I hate dieting!!!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

well i could share some of my dair.................... , on second thoughts maybe not , sorry miss :( :D :D :D :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

And would you object to me asking you not to drive your car as that is just as bad. See this can go on and on. I did not force poeple to sit next to me and i would not smoke in a non smoking pub but then i would not go in a pub that allows smoking if there is another down the road that bans it. I dont smoke therefor i make the decision to go in the non smoking pub. I dont wait outside the pub that allows smoking waiting for a smoker to drag me in :). I am a adult let me make my own decisions, not have them made for me by someone that does not like my way of life. We can all chose where we drink


BTW i smoked from when i was 14 till i was 43 I decided to stop and i am dam glad i did :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well said :) :clap:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yeah, we're infinately more interesting than them liberal whining tosspot anti-smokers who's only enjoyment in life is to make others miserable.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Hehehe...I'm not that annoyed! But you do have a choice. Don't go in a pub.

Surely that's a little contradictory. If it's for the good of everyone then smoking should be banned full stop right?

As I said, I am in favour of more places that are smoke free, so you could 'pop' to one of those places rather than the nearest smoke-filled emporium. Your choice hasn't been imposed upon at all, as you ultimately have the choice not to go in the pub - which is in effect exactly what you're asking the smokers to do.

BTW you're not an ex-smoker are you Salu?

Dunno...lock-out maybe?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I am a smoker but I'd never do it in front of anybody who didn't smoke. I am happy about the ban.

(Can't be bothered following the thread and reading everything else I thought I'd put my 2p in and leave)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

At least cars serve a useful purpose unlike smoking.

Maybe, but we can't choose to not get diseases from passive smoking. That's why I believe this is not about rights but about harm prevention.

Pubs are known to be smokey places but now we are wiser and know that smoking is harmful we should use that wisdom. Pubs need not be smoke chambers.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

That's not a choice. That's enforced discrimination. What about the antithesis? If you want a fag DONT go to a public place. Stay at home.

Yes I used to smoke as a kid but my main motivation is from seeing so many people die. Maybe unneccessarily.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

very true , there is no excuse for proper extraction imho , except that it will cost money :disturbd: :disturbd:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

sorry but if you cant be bothered to follow the thread then i cant see why you feel the need to post , how about hanging around a while and trying to get to know the thread instead of jumping in and then jumping out ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Exactly! If I want to go to a pub, I can't because of smokers. They are doing something there that actively damages my health if I go there. How about if I was to go to a public place and spray a carcinogenic substance around on a regular basis the sole reason being that I find it relaxing and enjoyable to do so........unreasonable? Thats what smokers do...and then they say that if we don't like it we shouldn't be where they are!
Nice...thanks! :disturbd:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

[QUOTE=Salu]
At least cars serve a useful purpose unlike smoking.
QUOTE]


And thats ok then "sorry you have cancer due to passive car fumes but they do serve a useful service so tuff"

My point

i do not smoke

I do not see that i have the right to enforce my not smoking on others.
I have the choice of which pub i go to.
Noone forces me to go to a pub where smoking is allowed how can they i have free will.

SO DO YOU use that right and only go to pubs that suit you.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Let's face it, no-one wants to go down the pub with an boring, moaning anti-smoker anyway so they're better off going elsewhere leaving the people who are out for craic in peace ;) I know plenty of people who don't smoke who have never complained about how smokey a pub is, people I regularly go out with. Even if we had dedicated places to smoke, your sort of people would moan that they should have a god given right to visit them and that we shouldn't smoke in them.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

All very interesting Bif but I notice it doesn't answer the point I made...............




........and to those who will always bring car emissions into smoking threads...........we are talking about smoking not cars......you want to debate cars...start a new thread :banghead:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well, if you want to spray a carcinogen down your throat and then exhale it into the air surrounding you .. that's entirely up to you, i have no problem with it.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Do you drive a car if you do then you are doing exacly that.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Thats 'cos you do it already.....spare a thought to those of us who don't and don't want to.
.....and you are exhaling a carcinogen as well, affecting those around you whether they want to be affected or not..........unless we avoid those places you go to, even if we want to be there as well.....thanks....nice :disturbd:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

You want to start a new thread? :dozey:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Do you not have any non smoking pubs in your area. I do and thats where i go unless i am with friends who smoke then i make the choice to go with them to a pub that allows them to smoke.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yep i was going of topic there .Read my other reply above

Re: smoking and the pub
 

IMO there should be smoking and non-smoking pubs.

It simply isn't reasonable to expect non-smokers to have to endure smoking in all pubs....conversely it is unreasonable for non-smokers to expect all pubs to be non-smoking. :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:clap:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

So further to that, if I am in a smoking pub, would it be reasonable to ask for a non-smoker to be ejected? ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Theres always one :LOL:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

LOL no m8, they just accept that there are alternatives. :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

yes if they are complaining ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

They could always sit outside and not smoke

I don't want their annoyng moans wafting over me when i am chuffing

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Even if I was blowing it down your throat?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But so is what you're proposing. At least with my suggestion you have the chouce of where to go if you don't want to be near smokers. What you're proposing is an outright ban on any smoking in public places. What I'm proposing is places where people who choose to smoke can go, and those that choose not to can go. You can't have it both ways.

You know what they say about ex-smokers ;) You should take it up again - it'll help you relax! :disturbd:

Why are you criminalising the smoker, when the person you have the problem with (reading between the lines) is the owner of the establishment? If smoking is permitted in a location then they will smoke there.

Exactly. :tu:

Agreed, just like I said about three pages back. I wouldn't want any non-smoker to have to endure any location where they might be offended or afraid for their health. Therefore more non-smoking pubs are the way forward...just one problem - they don't make any money - so do non-smokers not go to the pub?

That's OK, your coughing will drown them out ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Nope.
.....and even if we did, surely that is an infringement of my rights if I am forced to go only to those pubs if I want to have a smoke free drink.....ie. other people, through their dangerous habits are forcing me to avoid certain public places that I want to go to.

......and whil we are on the subject of non-smoking areas in pubs, I often see people smoking in those.......then I have to go and ask them not to smoke there, risking an altercation......I don't need the stress of that either.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well i dont live in a big city like london just a small town called warrington but we have no smoking pubs. I see for the first time we are ahead of london on something.

.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Why if those areas are there for you to be safe in, Do you want to go to one that might harm you ?

You have the right to go where you want.
You have the right to harm or not harm yourself.

I decide what i want to do no one else.

And they might be public places but only because the landlord lets you in. His place his rules.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Er no, I'd use my brain and go elsewhere, mind you, I could then waste loads of time complaining to others that do it on a forum for no apparent reason ;) Besides, you've been told more than once now (something you failed to address) that if you don't like people smoking in a pub, take it up with the landlord because we're excercising our right to smoke in them.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Totally agree with this statement.............imagine the public out cry at your spraying you would most likely be arrested and locked away !

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I'm sure that central London has non smoking pubs but here in the far-flung suburbs I'm not aware of any.thats the only part of your post I agree with......and with that we're back to the topic.....should landlords be allowed to allow smoking on their premises? Not if you want to protect people from the harmful effects of another persons habit in a public place where they have every right (or should have every right) to be in without having their health adversely (and inadvertently) affected.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Or more to the point, should the government be allowed to tell the landlord what can or cannot happen in his pub?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

A pub is a business, chances are most of their trade comes from people who smoke, landlords are not stupid, they're not going to force smokers outside unless they absolutely have to (which suits me fine)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Smoking in pubs goes hand in hand with drinking.

If people want smoke free pubs then set some up let the 20% minority use them pubs and watch them go out of business because theres not enough trade.

A democracy is about going with the oppinion of the masses, therefore minority views should not be able to enforce this kind of legislation. Certainly provide smoke free rooms in pubs, yes stop people smoking at the bar (but I must say I have yet to see a reliable method for stopping the smoke going over the bar anyway, I'm sure it'll obey if asked nicely though). Many people use the pub go escape for a quick pint and a quick smoke.

Its my belief that if they actually researched this properly they would realise that its a non starter, the backlash of enforcing this kind of regulation would ruin major companies many of which probably financially support the government. The loss of employment within the industry would ruin New labours unemployment figures and taxes would have to be raised to support the new benefit claimants and to cover the lost revenue when people decide to give up smoking.

Either way taxes will go up, just faster if smoking revenue drops, tyhe NHS will still suffer because smoking isnt the only thing that can cause lung cancer, emphasema (Sp?) and many other nasty health issues these days, yet the NHS will still have to treat them. Many of these people will never have smoked in their lives.

To Tony Blair, Dont pass this legislation to get you kicked out of government, thats coming at the general election anyway matey.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

This bit is the main reason why they will not ban fags and smoking in pubs. Votes +More TAX due to loss of sales = Kicked out at next election :)