ntl's email problems explained
 

Last week, we decided to contact ntlââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s chief executive of ntl, Simon Duffy and he has been in touch with us twice now and explained in depth whatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s really wrong with the e-mail service and what ntl are doing about it.

I cannot stress enough how open Simon has been here. It's not an immediate fix or comfort to customers but we should applaud the openness shown here. I do not know about anyone else but I feel more reassured.

Re: NTL's email problems explained
 

you cant knock him for being upfront and open :tu: , now we wait till it is sorted out :)

Re: NTL's email problems explained
 

I don't. Yes - I applaud the guy's openness, and it's obvious they aren't just sitting there twiddling their thumbs. But the question isn't are they honest, it isn't are they trying - it's how likely is their strategy to solve the problem. The middle of next month is six weeks away. In the meantime, it sounds like their service is at the mercy of spamgangs. What he doesn't say is that a large proportion of the increase in traffic that's brought the system to its knees is the work of one spam outfit. So, to repeat a previous question: what happens if, as seems likely, more pile in? What contingency plans do they have for another sudden hike in traffic? Will they just watch helplessly as the whole service collapses?

A few more details on this product that "allows customers to manage their spam mail before it gets into their mailbox" would help. Doesn't sound particularly reassuring to me. Unless a large proportion of users use it, it's going to make little difference to the amount of traffic ntl's handling. Which, as has been acknowledged, is the problem.

Re: NTL's email problems explained
 

I would agree with that. Whilst I appreciate some communication from ntl on this, firstly it should not have to come as a response to questions from this site - this is something that should be sent to every ntlworld customer, and second it shows poor planning from ntl.

Why would they buy an important bit of kit without testing it first? They have waited till they had it delivered to find out it is no good - what kind of purchasing strategy is this?

Next, I would firmly disagree that others have been caught unawares with this too. There are many ISPs not having this problem, I have several email addresses, none of which are suffering the same symptoms as ntl's. ntl's future planning is that of a low-end ISP - this has been the case for many years, so I really should not be surprised that the email 'upgrade' has suffered at their hands too.

Whilst this may be a new era in communication of their problems, this does not absolve them of the fact that they seem to make many very poor judgement calls along the way. I'd be interested to see what he has to say about that.

Re: NTL's email problems explained
 

So, in a nutshell, NTL just believed what the brochure and sales rep said without proper technical consultation before the upgrade.

As for the escalating growth in email excuse, why is it that my other email providers seem to cope without any problems?

Re: NTL's email problems explained
 

Do you really believe that NTL spent several million pounds on just the say so of a sales rep without doing any testing etc :erm: Somehow I don't think so.

You can test and test equipment until you are blue in the face, but you can never be totally sure how it will perform until it is fully live.

Re: NTL's email problems explained
 

No, I believe you said that.
I said, "without proper technical consultation".

Re: NTL's email problems explained
 

Hmmm,

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

There are two issues which are affecting email performance, spam and virii.

The problem with spam is that it is compounded by people bouncing spam messages and using unsubscribe links in the spam to try to stop it. Both of these contribute to increasing the volume of email flying about and verify to the spammer that they have found a valid email address.

With virii there are too many unprotected systems and systems with very out of date virus signatures. Systems that become infected quite often start sending out emails galore to everyone in your address book and then repeat the exercise with those newly infected systems and on and on it goes.

The main problem is that the majority of computer users do not really know much about computer security and it is very difficult to get through to them what they should be doing. The walled garden that NTL have used for some virus infections has helped, but it only tackles part of the problem.

NTL customers will suffer more than those of many other ISPs because of the size of their customer base. Spammers will target the biggest ISPs as they are likely to get more results from them.

Re: NTL's email problems explained
 

They could of done all the best technical consultating in the world, for several million pounds you would expect it, but I believe you cannot forsee a massive influx in email viruses and Spam volumes especially during migration from the old software to the new one.

Re: NTL's email problems explained
 

"The hardware we have purchased is not proving to be as functionally capable in the email storage area as we had been led to believe."

Edit: I am pleased though that they are trying their best to resolve it. Whatever their best is.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

Not quite sure what you're saying here. Spammers target whichever addies get them the best results, which isn't really connected to size. NTL can expect to be exponentially targeted; as other ISPs introduce server-side filtering, spamgangs will concentrate their [more accurately: other peoples'] resources on the ones that don't. NTL's recent strategy has put them in the firing line, and they don't have the server capacity to deal with the predictable results.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

I too should like to applaud Mr Duffy. This is an example of the sort of communication that NTL should be providing for its customers.

I was looking for alternative suppliers for my email, but in light of this (and as it seems we are to get anti-spam and anti-virus features thrown in) I shall hang on.

Enterian

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

Many spammers use dictionary attacks which have more successful hits on a large ISP than a smaller ISP. They may send out millions of messages all of which have to be handled by the ISPs whether they are valid or not. Think about it, a million guesses at the part of the address before @ntlworld.com will result in more identified actual email addresses than a million on a small domain such as @chopsmcpsdomain.com

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

ok it's not quite what we wanted to hear but at least something is being done.. whether the new system will be up the standards we would all like is another matter but at least anti spam and av is a good step and if it stops the average end user from getting infected in the first place will also help reduce some of the traffic on the servers.. just hope this isn't a one off improvement and then it all stops until we get back to this situation in a few months \ years time

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

A note to all of the cynics, can you just be happy for a change that someone from NTL has decided to come out and explain the situation and give NTL a break.

Instead all I'm constantly seeing is people deconstructing statements for the sole purpose of looking for something that they can turn negative.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

Just what I was thinking.... :rolleyes: :sleep:

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

Well there are two issues - one is the explanation, which I believe has generally been congratulated.

Second is the issue affecting customers, and until it is fixed (bear in mind how long this has been ongoing now) I cannot see any positive here. It is an example of poorly managed systems and poorly implemented improvements - both of which lead to a poor service to customers.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

You don't think any of that is positive?? :erm:

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

I absolutely applaud that :clap:

But....let's not forget-ntl did not come forward voluntarily. It was only after Mick's 'pitbull round your ankle' approach of not giving up, that we got that reply, but got it we did. :)

That's not 'all' you are seeing at all.
People are happy about what they have seen (even me! :D ), but they are just sceptical based on ntl's track record/tendency to BS it's customers, & I don't think the the sceptism is unreasonable where ntl's email 'service' is concerned, seeing as it has been ongoing for over a year.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

I know - but I don't think dictionary attacks are central to the problem. Looking at the CCs in the spam I get, and analysing the fake bounces coming my way, the ntl addies are too complex and specific for that to be the case. Spammers have clearly got an enormous amount of valid or once-valid ntl addies and are hitting them repeatedly.

That said, even a dictionary attack is more profitable on an ISP with no server side spam filtering, as you know the valid guesses will reach the end-user.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

What I'm seeing is a lot of woolly thinking. Openness does not mean the problem is going to be solved. The reason some of us are "deconstructing" the statement is to try and work out how likely it is that things are going to get better, not to have a go at NTL. Personally, I would be thrilled if they got these ongoing problems sorted; I just don't see much evidence that they're going to, at least in the short term.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

What evidence do you want? You have heard what Simon Duffy had to say. :erm: Give them a chance.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

I think you mean, "give them another chance". Remember, we've had assurances before. 3 months ago I (and others) were told the hardware upgrade would sort things out; it didn't. And that server side spam filtering would come in by mid June, also improving things. It didn't. Now the story (from a support guy who BSed me for 10 minutes on the phone today) is that they *hope* they'll have filtering up and running by the end of the year. Which is five months away.

Based on previous experience and what I've seen I predict that things will get worse over the next few months, not better. I will be absolutely thrilled if I'm wrong.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

I would like to say thanks NTL for the explanation about email.
I hope this new attitude to customer service, and openness continues.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

I think it is positive that Simon has decided to reply, and as he replied while on business in the US, it is even more impressive. Simon is relatively new at ntl, and if his example is followed then things can only get better.

What is not so impressive is that the original e-mail and the follow up were addressed to Bill Goodland and Aizad Hussain, and CC'd to Simon Duffy. Neither Goodland or Hussain, both of whom are closer to ntl Home issues than Duffy, bothered to reply (nothing new in my experience), and Simon probably felt the urge to respond after receiving the 2nd e-mail and noting that niether of his "associates" had replied.

Strip out traffic wardens such as Goodland and Hussain and we might be getting somewhere.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

Indeed - lets hope he has dropped the hint to them that they should be more responsive. Full marks to him for replying.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

New attitude? What new attitude?

You mean keeping customers completely in the dark about what's going on until Mick emails him twice to try & get an explanation?

If it hadn't been for Mick's emails, we would still have no idea about what was happening.

Why wasn't this information put on the service status page? Surely it would have saved a lot of CS calls. And don't forget, it is only the minority of NTL customers (those that read these forums) who still know what is going on. Until NTL are truly open & honest, the majority of customers are still in the dark!

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

Well it's nice to be kept informed but I must admit I'm surprised that nobody foresore the growth in spam and virus transmission via email - the writing has been on the wall for a long, long time.

The news about spam management is worrying. I'll wait for the sword to fall :)

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

Erm - the openness usually never seen with ntl...

Perhaps your not familier with the fact that on many occasions many emails to ntl management directors have been ignored. The new attitude here is that a full explanation has been given into the email problems. My emails could of been ignored and I would of took the usual stance that this is ntl's usual attitude but I got replies, very informative replies.

And to be fair and as Frank says - I mailed Bill Goodland and Aizad Hussain and cc'd Simon Duffy in on the 1st of mails. If anyone should of replied it should of been them two not Simon.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

Not really I'm afraid:

Reworking the whole hardware solution, becuase the one they spec'd originally isn't up to the job - I'm reading between the lines there, but that's what he's saying to me.

Allowing customers to manage their own spam - I don't understand why this didn't happen a long time ago. Whilst the end result will be positive for customers, it will be far more beneficial to ntl. It is also something that most other email providers have been doing for a long time.

And certainly no positive in the last section. Six more gruelling weeks of a wholly inadequate email system holds no joy for me whatsoever.

The positive, as I said, is that the information was forthcoming and their level of openess (or admission of guilt as I am thinking of it) is to be congratulated.

Completely agree. Personally I think that things should not have been allowed to slip to this level. I'm not blaming Simon Dufffy personally for this, I'm sure as an internet professional he made the people who hold the purse strings aware a long time ago (or at least I hope he did). I wonder if their internal email system is suffering the same problems or if the money was spent to ensure that it works properly?

A sad state of affairs for sure, and another very poor show by these two. They learned from Knapp well! Or maybe their email still hasn't arrived ;)

A very good point sir! As I mentioned before, this apology and explanation should be sent to every single ntlworld customer. They could eveb resort to putting it in with the bill if the email server couldn't handle it.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

I agree - it is nice to see NTL being open as regards the issues.

As a techie, I am aware of the problems that migrating an Email system is likely to generate.

As stated in the origional text, they got hit my a massive increase in traffic, whilst in the process of migrating, this means that they have (probably) had to divert people who were working on the migration back to the current system in order to resolve these issues.

NTL are not claiming to be perfect, but rather they are stating that they got caught out by the increase, which happened at the worst possible time in terms of the migration project.

Personally, I applaud NTL for being big enough to stand up and say "we got caught out, but we are working on it". :clap:

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

Blimeh, hurrah for that - NTL actually come out with a statement which honestly explains and describes the troubles they've been having, certainly not too "techy" to confuse the avarage user, and tells us what they're doing about it.

Not many companies at all would give you that. Muchos applause to them there.

As for who actually replied, I'd not read too much into it - The emails were sent to three people and one of them replied - surely that's why he was CCd into it in the first place?

It's still a high-level management reply - and that's more than good enough for me!

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

I wouldn't read too much into who replied to Micks emails. The three of them probably discussed the situation and Simon may have told the other two to leave it to him.

Simon is in the USA on business. He could be negotiating for new kit or kicking backsides where they need kicking. For all we know all three of them may be over there together.

NTL have had their problems and will continue to have problems. They are taking action to give customers faster, more reliable internet experiences and get rid of as many problems as they can. As much as we all want them to wave a magic wand and do everything instantly, unfortunately there are no suitable magic wands listed on Ebay at the moment. Patience is a virtue.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

http://search.ebay.co.uk/magic-wand_...QsosortorderZ1

wouldnt one of them do it :erm::D

Lol joking aside its good that they are doing someit about it but in the mean time it means more mail problems :mad:

i think most of my email comes into my gmail account or thought my domain now (gmail makes an execllent place to send all them forum someone has replied notifers ;))

i still have a few things goto my ntl email account although i sometimes wander how many emails im not getting that i should be? hopefully none :shocked::Yikes:

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

As someone who used to make a living by providing on site PC support I am very aware of the problems that beset all the major ISP's, hence my "better the devil you know" approach I have taken with NTL up till now.

I echo much of what andygrif said in his post. Look at the statement on the Blueyonder page regarding the email problems they had early July. I doubt you will get such a public admission from NTL.

My perception gathered over the last 6 years is that NTL management takes a somewhat cavalier attitude towards it's domestic internet customer base - and after all it's only a leasure pursuit / activity is how I have come to perceive the thinking at NTL. This may change as customers become more PC and Internet literate and realise that it's not their PC systems or inexperience and start demanding that NTL actually deliver on it's contractual obligations.

I gave up long ago contacting NTL support in it's various forms, but after a week of email problems, and with no expectation of getting a meaningful reply, I used their website to register a complaint mainly to vent my frustration.

So whilst heartened by Simon's reply I would ask him to reflect upon the fact that if I am actively seeking an alternative ISP how many other NTL customers may be thinking likewise ?

Ultimately I believe NTL will only sit up and take notice when it's customers start voting with their feet.

For what it's worth, here is the message I sent :

Hi,

Please be good enough to inform your superiors that I am no longer prepared to tolerate the email problems that users have had to endure for over a week now, and as I write are still ongoing (3 hours so far).

Your superiors only have to look at the Server Status logs for the past 4 years to see the same faults occurring time after time after time. I do not exaggerate when I tell you that over the last five years your own records will show there has not been a month free of registration problems to name but one recurring problem.

Given that email provision is one of the core services provided by an ISP, I am also appalled at the frequency and number of email faults that occur.

This is a customer of five years and more who has had enough of mediocre service and I now put NTL on notice to fix the email problems and the like once and for all, or I and others like me shall be taking their business elsewhere.

I await eagerly my automated reply and doubt that I will ever get a response from an individual which will only be par for the NTL course.

Many thanks.

PS Do shareholders in NTL actually use any of the Internet services provided?

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

Have you read the whole reply from Simon? NTL are working flat out to get these email problems sorted and spending alot of money to get these email problems finally fixed thus ntl are sitting up, infact I think they are standing up never mind sitting.

Believe me, I have been just as frustrated but now we have been given a full explanation of the real problems and just what is actually being done about it. I feel abit more reassured that something is being done, where as before we knew absolutely nothing and a lot of the time not knowing anything can be worse than the actual problem that is at hand.

Re: ntl's email problems explained
 

Yebbut... do they have a strategy that's likely to sort things out? I'm not convinced. The hardware's struggling to cope with current traffic volumes... well, those are only going to go up over the next few months, so what happens then? And what exactly is this tool that allows people to manage spam before it gets into their mailbox? On the face of it, that doesn't sound like it's likely to make much impact on overall traffic volume, so what's their strategy to avoid another hike in spam bringing about another collapse of the email service?

imho, their strategy ought to be universal server-side filtering, coupled with their legal bods coming down like a ton of sh*t on the wanadoo dialer spammers, who are a large part of the problem. At the very least this would deter anybody thinking of trying the same trick.

But email is important!
 

This is being treated as if email was a fancy add-on like chat or pop videos. For many people the email service is as important as the telephone or electricity or gas.
I doubt that the populace would tolerate either of these three services being off for an hour or two let alone the time that we have been without any reliable email service.
So the answer given by the NTL management that they will fix this when they can is not good enough. This is the real world and they are playing in the big league now!
I believe the statement by NTL management was only made after persuasion by this forum and has only been published on this forum. So why haven't all of the NTL email suibscribers been advised aboiut the problem, by NTL? I think we all deserve to be informed since we are all having to pay for this problem.

Nigel

Re: But email is important!
 

Is this supposed to be a reply to an existing thread?
If not, can I just say "uh?" for me and whoever else stumbles in here.

Re: But email is important!
 

Indeed, I have merged it with the most recent e-mail topic as he refers to Simon Duffys response.