have you had religious experiances
 

if so then its not god as i have said all along :D

according to some scientific research certain so called 'incidents' maybe attributed to the way the individuals brain works in people who are susceptible to religious beliefs

apparently some patients were tested who had religious experiances and those that had a condition called temporal lobe epilepsy and those without

the scientist measured skin resistence in both sets of people and found a dramatic change in people who had the condition

"We found to our amazement that every time they looked at religious words like God, they'd get a huge galvanic skin response."

this was the first time evidence showed that there was significant activity in the temporal lobe that was linked to religious 'visions'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2865009.stm

(sigh) Here we go again.......

All these scientists have done IMO is find the ways through the brain that God uses to 'speak' to us....

i find the evidence plausable also i did believe myself there was a susceptibility in people who believe in religion............

And you're entitled to believe that.

Thread closed now?

why thread closed im waiting for people to respond if they want to just because your a mod and dont agree with me doesent mean you can just go around closing threads you dont agree with whos censoring now ?

If I was censoring this thread I would have just closed it!!

you offered to close it same thing really just politely doing it i think if this was your site you would do it regardless of what i said anyway enough of this.........

Thank you for being so judgemental!

As a mod I can close a thread if I deem it neccessary, I have been given the authority to do so. But I won't close this as it is a valid topic.

Now think of all the threads this site and the other has had on this subject. Have I ever closed them, even when it looks like I'm backed in to a corner?

Now let's get on with this IMO tedious subject....

np :p

please lets do that includes anyone and i assure you russ my intentions are clearly to back my belief in religion.........

now as you know i believe in science not everything i hear/read etc but as i said it seems very plausable to me and the fact that i had the suspicion anyway that people with religious beliefs were easily susceptable already backs that up but it seems the temporal lobe is the key to these visions and experiances people talk about and it is infact this specific area of the brian which for some reason is responsible for the visions/experiances that people say they 'experianced'

So what about all the police officers, pilots, doctors, nurses etc who have had such experiences, do you consider them to be 'easily susceptable' too?

Do you consider me to be too?

each individual is diffarent russ but i do think its linked to the brain i have seen how easy it is to 'brianwash' people who are under false religious pretenses

So you're now saying that maybe some of these people aren't so easily influenced?

no im saying that some people have it in there blood so to speak from there parents etc and have it drilled in to them at an early age while others listen to the church and are the most susceptable ones teenagers/adults IMO

So you ARE saying I'm susceptable!!

So in your opinion nobody just walks in to a church and experiences God unless they are 'brainwashed' (to coin a phrase) or 'easily susceptable'?

How many Christians and 'religious people' do you know personally?

im saying there is the susceptable factor i believe so for people with religious beliefs


no i used the brianwash thing as an example of why i think there is truth in this research

none but thats because none of my freinds are religious it wouldnt bother me if they were just as long as they didnt try and 'convert' me

here we go more controlling here so the vatican is trying to stop gay marriages

"homophobic crusade" by the Vatican

damn right :rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3108349.stm

I am sure that we discussed this exact topic on .com, at length. I think I supplied lots of medical studies and links about it at the time :dozey:

Why have we got this going again?

I think 2000+ posts on .com pretty much exhausted it and if I remember correctly in the end everyone agreed to differ.

So you're basing your beliefs on just one side of the argument without actually speaking to the people supposedly affected by it?

Just for those who seem to get a little confused - the Pope, Vatican etc means little or nothing to Christians, for they are all connected to the Catholic faith.

And yes, I'm against gay marriages but perhaps not for the reasons featured in that link. I have nothing against the people and would never give a homosexual a hard time (poor choice of words??) over the way they are, I just feel for what marriage is indended for, homosexuality is inappropriate.

Yes but some people just love imposing their views on us... :D

forgive the :notopic: but what do you think of the vaticans stance Russ? whilst i acknowlege you are not a Roman Catholic, alot of your beliefs overlap, and they are deemed to be the leading christian faith. Are they wrong, or are christinas supposed to think "homosexual unions (are) immoral, unnatural and harmful.?

Its opinions like these that make meturn awayfrom religious faiths,as they prefer to take their commandments from public opinion defined a few hundered years ago, and not relate to the world as it is today?

If homosexuality is so wrong, then by the same right its fine for us to own slaves and stone people to death? i belive those sort of things were written at the same time? (im no theologan, so cant provide exact quotes)

*edit* ANYWAY.....this is the kindasubject that will go round and round in circles...im stepping away from it ;)

For my views - see Russ - unless I contradict him and or put more info in on a bit.

Kronas

As someone interested in science, you may be interested in this site.

http://www.khouse.org/enews/2003-07-15.html

It is a site run by a Christian physicist who used to work as a military advisor to the US government. He has some interesting scientific explanations pertanant to Christianity.

The top of his site has the slogan "Bringing the world into focus through the lens of scripture."

If you study it, I think that you will begin to see the bible in a new light and see just how incredibly relavent it is today.....

no i have spoken to people about religion as well as watched various programs about it

its still religion both seem a bit similar to me

well i can accept the fact that if 2 same sex people are happy and are willing to commit let them they are not harming anyone are they ?

;)

fresh evidence and all that :) :D

Hiya Mark :)

To a point I agree with them but the Vatican's opinions over the years on this has given the impression that gays are to be "CAST UNTO THE FIRE OF HELL FROM WENCE YOU CAME!!" This to me is hypocritical - taking the Bible's true view of gays means that their sexual practise is a sin, and we ALL sin (I'm sure even the Pope has his moments!). It should be noted that it is NOT homosexuality that is frowned upon - it's homosexual activity which is negated in the Bible.

On the contrary - I feel the Bible is still relevant, only some wording needs to be updated.

Yes Levictus stated that gays should be stoned to death but that was Old Testament, and when Jesus arrived (New Testament) a lot of the old teachings were updated. Remember it was Big J who said 'Let he without sin cast the first stone'.

If you actually did some research, you'd see how wrong you are.

What if it happens so much that kids growing up believe it's the norm?

There are major differences between the Prodestant faith and the Roman Catholic faith. Yes some of them do overlap but not all of them.

Homosexual unions are not natural as nature intended man to join with woman. However, saying that I am not pro- or anti- homosexual and as such say that everyone is entitled to their own sexual feelings as long as they do not go imposing them on other people.

At my church we have a lot of people from younger generations and we have a lot of up-to-date cultures in place. Yes the Bible was wrote hundreds of years ago but many of the teachings are still valid and in the correct context today. Those that are not in the context that you are looking for are usually because of the changes in culture over the years and if you read up on it in more depth you can find out what it means and what the situation would be if it was transferred into todays culture. This then enables you to teach other people about it in a way and contaxt that they will understand.

Again in the time that this was written homosexuality was strictly forbidden. However, that was under Jewish law and Jesus came to teach that we should all love one another. Yes at this same time people has slaves and stoning was the norm but if they were to look at things like they are today in 2000 years or so then they will be saying 'What they put people in jail even if they were innocent and they had a problem with poverty?' Look at it like this. I would rather be a slave and have food and a roof over my head then be so poor that I cannot keep a home and have to beg for food. How many people have to do this these days?

No this is the kind of subject that sparks interesting debate which I would rather have than the same old boring stuff all the time where you post a problem it is fixed and no-one speaks apart from that. It also gives a chance to let people share their opinions on a subject and then you can get to know them better.

In addition to my above post, far too many Christians show intolerance towards gays....and I'm as guilty as anyone.

Some of you may remember a thread I started on .com about gay marriages. My attitude was harsh, unfriendly and certainly not becoming of a christian.

None of us are any more perfect or sin-free than the next :)

Now don't you go worrying about it Russ.

In the spirit of Christian love I forgive you :)

I am usually a little too tolerent of gays if you ask me. I will always stand up for them and defend them if they are being treated unfairly.

The good thing about Christianity is that we know that we are perfect but as long as we ask for forgiveness for our wrongs we know that we cannot have these held against us for Jesus died on the cross to forgive our sins and so we are guarenteed forgiveness for them as long as we are truely repentant and seek forgiveness from God.

this is sarcasm right?

Why would it be?

actually wrong

prime example to why religion is bull****, u can do whatever u want but as long as u say sorry to god it's ok and if u can't repent it away or drown in it in dogma it or the action isn't really Christian

i doubt that there would be that many same sex unions to replace hetrosexual unions as the 'norm'.

I'm left feeling that what you really mean is 'right' or 'proper' instead of 'the norm'.
So WHAT if kids growing up thought it was the norm? surely the most important thing in a family is a loving enviroment? or is the fear that gay/lesbian parents will brainwash their children to follow their sexual orientation - and even if they DID, that would be no different from some hetrosexual parents turning thier backs on their children when they 'come out of the closet' would it?

:confused: i dont understand - its ok to BE gay, just dont act it? that puts homosexuality on the same level as a CRIME does it not? - its ok to think about bricking your neighbours window - just dont do it?

not natural as nature intended?? why do people always turn to that old chestnut when talking baout homosexuality??
nor are life saving operations, blood transfusions, trans atlantic flights, space travel etc i dont see anyone (well, ok a few people do) crying out againsed them??

ahhhh....so homosexuals cant go imposing their views on sexual orientation on anyone, but its ok if its the church? beacause, make no mistake about it, thats EXACTLY what they are doing .....

:confused: :confused:

I dont beleive in religion.

I dont deny that jesus ever existed, he almost certainly did. As for his claims well......It just makes me think of David Icke and a few others. Yes his views and teachings changed the world, but the religious fighting that sprouted up from it probably means it may have done more harm than good.
Yes I have to point out that old nugget religious wars. It seems that every war has its heart seated in religion at some level, even if it is an extremist faction. Its still there.

I feel that if there was a god that he would have made himself known by now, especially when you look at the history of the 20th Century, how many people must have asked "why god?" Did he answer, maybe to them, probably not to anyone.
Did he allow the holocaust because the jews killed his son? The jews believe they are hated because of this.
Lets face it if mankind ever needed proof of God it is now. Sadly for some that are way to involved in it all they will, in my view, be very dissapointed.


Just my thoughts
Peace to all
I tolerate all religions as long as they dont try to make me see things their way.
Each to their own I say

And that's a prime example of complete and utter ignorance.

Is there any reason for you to get offensive? Oh let me guess, you weren't being offensive, "just expressing your views"...:rolleyes:

if I'm to be considered 'stuck in my ways' over anything, it's that children should have a mother and a father. I point-blank refuse to back down from that stance, now and in the future.

I don't doubt that gays have a lot of love to give, but what about a child from a same-sex "union" (I hate that word) in school? Think of the flack from fellow pupils.


From an odd pojnt of view, you're not far from it. If I may be crude for a moment, it's such activity as gay sex which I find deplorable and is discouraged in the Bible. It's one thing to have urges (we all have sexual urges) but it's another matter to act on them.

How many more times are apparently intelligent people going to come out with that worn-out piece of rubbish??? Religion does not cause wars and never has done. People have indeed USED it as an excuse to fight. It's like saying football causes fighting just because of the hooligan element.

He will make himself known when He's good and ready. This is HIS planet, not ours. We're just tenants.

From that comment I assume that you (along with many others on this forum) have not properly researched Christianity and what it's about....

(/has images of people quickly flipping through google for some information...... ;) :D)

Ok maybe i didnt make it clear, what I was saying is that Religion has been used as an excuse for war. If you dig deep enough into the relevant beliefs and history of the key players I am sure some form of religious misgiudance is there. And if look at some wars, usually say between the seiks and the hindus, the muslims and the christians, then religion is definately the cause of these wars.



Oh? well seeing as I dont beleive in him I dont have to pay rent



Its odd, but I dont see why I would waste my time researching something that offers me no comfort, something I dont believe in (and believe me I have tried, I used to go to church and I used to get stick for it) something that can inflict such pain on others, as in the church's views on homosexuality.



I agree with your views on same sex couples adopting children, yes fine they may be happy, but the kids are going to be tortured by the school bullies.

At the end of the day Russ, the one thing we all are is Human, and I certainly wont judge people on the basis of their chosen religion.

russ:what denomination are u exactly?

Ok then, so would I be justified in saying football causes fighting and is at the root of just about every brawl?

That's your choice! I've never said you have to believe :)

Agreed but then again without researching the subject it's hard for a valid discussion to continue if you are not fully aware of what you are agruing/discussing against.


ANYONE inflicting pain on others is not following Christ's teachings.

And neither would I! At last something we agree on :)

Pentecostal Christian, although I was Catholic until I was 18, nothing something I'm too happy with.

If we are talking denominations then I will say that I am Salvation Army

I must have missed this thread on .com a while back I guess.:confused:

I find god impossible to believe in, but this is just a personal view. And I will use the same old arguments as always, why d so many have to suffer it the big man could sort it all out.

Some guy on another forum told me "god is for people that can't accept that life is just this".

Ok this is going to be a VERY quick recap, but basically because Adam and Eve couldn't behave themselves, sin was allowed to stay in the world.

Lucifer (an angel at the time) was impressed with what God created and wanted some of it for himself and rebelled against Him. God then allowed Lucifer limited power on earth with the provision that if someone turned their back on the evil one and gave their life to Big G, Lucifer would never have their soul.

As a result Lucifer/Satan and his 'boys' are out to cause sin, pain and mayhem wherever possible.

Sorry for the rough draft but it's just too long a story to explain it all!

Thanks for filling me in Russ :)

But still this must mean god is vengfull? To watch young children die hideous deaths, no matter if they are "going to better place".

I feel people who realy are believer, not just the ones that go to church once a year, they must very strong and dedcated people. I man it is al about fait, you are being asked to dedicate you who life to somehting you have never seen.

Russ, I have a question thats to do with Religious Education.

I have recently turned 27, no significance here, but it helps to set that I was in senior school from 1987 to 1992.
We were made to study RE between 1st and 3rd year. Even if we had been muslim we would have had to learn all about christianity.....which seems wrong to me somehow, I dont remember learning about other religions, and I'll confess mostly RE was a chance to get my head down for a quick hours nap......or annoy the teacher by claiming I worshipped satan (well I was a known metalhead in the school lol)

But in this day in age, russ, do you think as a religious person that religion should be forcefully taught in schools, or do you think it would be better to offer it to those who want to choose it?
Either way it would teach about all religion.

At last!! Someone who knows a bit!!!

Yes God is a vengfull god but only against those who constantly sin. As for hideous deaths, my opinion (and this is exactly that: my opinion, this is not neccessarily that of each Christian) is that whatever day they died, that was always marked as their 'death-day'. God had chosen that day for when they would pass on. Now the route in which they took to death is down to many factors.

For example they might die in a road accident, in which case it could be painless. They could die horrible deaths such as the Soham murders, in which case it would have been one man's (plus a woman?) actions inspired by the evil one. Had the killer not listened to Lucifer that day then I'm sure the 2 girls would have dies another way, again maybe a car accident or similar.

I'm not too good at theological explanations, I hope that made sense :erm:

I certainly do believe children should be taught about all religions, if anything it will teach tolerance and harmony as well as understanding. It should then be down to the parents to guide their children towards which (if any) religion would be best suited. I certainly want my daughter to learn about other faiths, but as parents we want what we think is the best for them, I will encourage her to follow Christianity.

I think that as a pupil in the UK you were quite rightly tought about cristianity (as was I). Goes with the territory.

yes but also in the UK we have choice of religion. What about all the children born here that have say muslim or jewish parents?

Thanks for the reply Russ as I know everyone is looking at you for a reply in this kind of tread.

I was thinking of Famin and things like that, or small children born with aids, that kind of thing, long slow deaths of children that are not old enough to have sinned.

You know, something has just occured to me......
I dont believe in religion, yet, I believe in ghosts......surely that means an afterlife and that means a heaven?


Man I think I need help lol

It's nothing to do with the fact they may or may not be old enough to sin, it's due to the fact that Adam and Eve disobeyed Big G, so their ancestors (ie, us) suffer for it.

Diseases and suchlike are believed to be creations of Satan. As for AIDS, it was suggested the explosion of infected people in the early 80s was mainly due to promiscuous homosexual behaviour, so you may be able to see where Christians make that connection.

Not really jus means there is another "life" or world after this, doesn't mean it's heaven or hell :) Or would us people that believe in ghosts et the same results in te test in Kronas post?

But this where my problem lies in it all, god is quiet happy to let "his children" suffer and die on earth, and can go to heaven if they repent their sins. Why would I worship anyon or anything that is, by most peoples standards, being cruel?

I mena I may as welll worship the devil as adleast then I'd get to enjoy lifes little good points too.

NOTE : I do no tactually worship the devil :p

It might appear that He's being cruel, but He gave His son to die so that we would be 'saved', which I'd say is a pretty good thing to do. Our ancestors' constant sinning has meant that evil and sin will always be around us and spiritual death awaits everyone (God dictated that those who do wrong face death. Once he has spoken it, it cannot be undone so he sent Jesus to die in our place). the fact that he gave us a 'get out of jail' card indicated his patience and love for a human race who by and large, do a lot of evil things.

Yes indeed you could spend this short lifetime bowing before satan but think of the inescapable hell you'd be spending eternity it, with no chance of parole. God will have given you numerous opportunites to turn to Him but your constant failure would be your undoing.

Where's Towny when you need him??? :D

But is god not jut as cruel as anything else we know, to punish us for what others have done? It seems to be situation where you are gilty until you repent, even if you personally have never done anything to be guilty of.

I dont know where towny is Russ but I'll be online proper later

I see where you're going but we are ALL guilty of breaking His laws - there are no sinless people. As I said earlier, even someone as 'holy' as the Pope sins, and I'm sure Mother Theresa was prone to the odd PMT-fuelled outburst from time to time :D ;)

:p :D

So how have we all sinned then, what are "his" laws? I don't mean to seem stupid but have kind of avoided that kind of thing for many years now.

and also what of all other religons? People may have devoted their life to budha and lived a selfless life but according to the bible would they too not be sinners?

Maybe If God cared to tell us what actually happens after we die, I might worship him!..

Seriousley though, im not spending my time worshipping someone, when as far as I can see, im not gonna gain anything from it. Sorry for being shallow ;)

i dont think that will happen also school plays its part in educating children so i dont see the problem there

also looking through all the posts while i was away and thinking about it why 'update' the bible so to speak did god give you the choice of 'tweaking' it

if you can sin and be forgiven why not just continue sinning

also i do believe homosexuals should be given marriage rights

This is forbidden. It says so in Revelations 22 v 18-19.

So why are there so many differing variations of the bible in circulation??

If a book which was written at least 400 years after the subject matter (IE Jesus's life) how can we be sure it is based on fact and not Myths?

its based on a belief system :rolleyes:

But why would anyone believe in something they cannot see or touch

good question anyone whos religious gonna answer that ?

IMO its all BS id rather believe in something which has fact/substance

Thats not a belief then....it's the bleedin obvious:D

Never heard of the 10 Commandments?? :D

Yes they would, God makes it clear to people who/what we believe is correct.

No problem, that's between you and Him.

The original Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the New Testament was in Greek, so the different 'versions' relate to the translations.

Because a lot of what was written in scriptures was corroborated in other journals, such as Caesar's diaries. Jesus is mentioned in those too.

As Kronas says, it's based on faith. What helps is that God will communicate with you in His own way. He has already done so with me about my daughter.

That too is between you and God, but please, don't refer to someone else's beliefs as BS. Is there any need to be offensive?

i said its my opinion in my mind it is BS i will state what i think whether it offends someone or not after all its MY opinion

Yes but using such expressions as "BS" can be seen as offensive. This site is relaxed but using wording like that is still not good form.

But this then begs the question how would a new born child have not followed the commandments when they do not know what they are;) I know you say they are paying for the sins of others but some how seems very cruel, when you consider how many "bad" people do well in this world.

as long as its within forum gudielines i see no problem are we restricted by our opinions here were not free to express them ? im not breaking any rules am i NO

They might do bad in THIS world, but not the next. We don't just have an existence in this dimension.

Put it this way - you won't be continuing referring to anyone's religious beliefs as "BS".

on anything i deem BS yep

I'm sorry to keep going on about this Russ but I find the difference in thinking between me and you very intersting. :)

Ok so you have said the bad wil/may get punished in the next life, but what about the innocent children that have had no life in this world, and what's more died in horrible ways?

When you say 'no life', what sort of age do you mean?

I'm talking weeks or evendays old, or children in Africa under the age of 5 looking on the ground for food or drinking disease ridden water.

If my child was taken away from me I could never accept that it was "the grand scheme of things".

i am under the guidelines when did i say i wouldnt respect them :confused:

im just expressing my opinion but it seems to me your restricting this just because its religion ?

its not a cheap 'pop' because its religion its my opinion of what i think on a subject not everyone agrees with it

please point to where i have gone past the 'line' in your guidelines :)

OK, you'd need to look at the circumstances of how that child came to be where it was. In your example in Africa it's due to weather conditions. Satan was given limited power over the weather so he'd be involved in that, plus the 'alleged' corruption in those areas which lead people to spend government money elsewhere rather than on looking after it's people.

Governments would rather spend millions on weapons than feed it's own children, again this status quo would be of Lucifer.

You are free to disagree with ANYONE on this site but it's your choice of wording which is inappropriate. It's nothing to do with the subject matter, it's the way you have chosen to use the offensive expression 'BS' rather than a more mature example of "I just don't believe in all that".

See but again then just looks tome like God being cruel and punishing people to frighten others in belief. I could not worship something so vengfull, or ful of hate.

ok but at the time its how i felt still do id rather not use the same words over and over again it would get bit repetative right so i express myself in diffarent ways

case closed sorry for the off topic mods

You're missing the point. The people who could be spending the money on their children have the opportunity to do so by God. But under the rules of 'free will', satan can step in and tempt them as much as he wants. Again under 'free will' they choose to listen to the evil one.

ok so why doesent god stop all the corruption hunger slaughter of inoccent lives is he testing 'them' will bring them back in a another life/form they were destined to have it happen ?

There are times when I'd like to use certain words to describe certain users of this forum but out of politeness and desire to stick to forum rules, I choose not to.

Let's see you do the same please.

I'm not religious but that is a good answer
:D

It's because the people who are causing the 'corruption hunger slaughter' are preferring to listen to satan rather than God.

I thank you :D

But to teach us a lesson it is OK to let others suffer even though they have no power to make a difference? Seems cruel to me. Why not let the "bad" ones have the life of hell.

What's not to say that the ones who suffered had a life of immeasurable happiness and love afterwards? And the 'bad' ones will have more than a life of hell - they'll have an eternity of it.

but why arent the innocent people being saved by god ?

Who's to say that their life on earth isn't just a small fraction of their entire existence? Maybe by taking them away from this sinful earth He IS saving them?

You cannot see and touch some gases. Doesn't mean they don't exist.

As Kronas (I think) says, those people that follow religion are happy to have faith that God exists (in whatever form).

However, because I have posted this, it doesn't mean I believe in any sort of definable god.

I also believe that because I don't neccessarily believe in a God, it doesn't automatically follow that other people shouldn't as well. Not believing in God is right for me. It is not right for everyone..

Everyone is free to follow their own beliefs.

yep i agree but everyone is entitled to an opinion and should be allowed to express it...........


but what about the individual who wants peace and a normal life on earth dont they get a say ?

So are you saying that if someone came on here and started making offensive and obscene remarks about your mother, they should be allowed to say it "because it's their opinion"??

Quote:

but what about the individual who wants peace and a normal life on earth dont they get a say ?

If that is God's plan then that's what they get, but remember that this isn't OUR life - it's God's. We don't OWN this life.

i think you have misunderstood russ i never insulted anyone i just disagreed with something someone said and found there evidence BS IMO


hold it there russ this is MY life and i can guide it to where i want if i work hard enough its about self control

Just accept that writing off someone's beliefs as "BS" IS insulting. And I have never produced ANY evidence regarding christianity because I don't need to.

So it's your life is it? You are able to decide what mood you'll be in tomorrow, You decide who you meet tomorrow, You decide what weather you'll have tomorrow, You decide exactly what you'll be doing 10 years from right now, You control exactly what happens to you every day for the rest of your life? You controlled what day you were born on?

ok if it is then it is as i said before id say it in any other circumstance maybe in a diffarent way...............

i could decide what mood im in by doing something to cheer myself up if need be

i could organize a meeting with someone or bump in to them

the weather thing is silly russ i never said that :)

as for the rest i couldnt control when i was born but i can control how sucessful i can become and my health and well being as long as i do the right thing

thats what i meant russ

No, you cannot control how successful you are. If you have such control over your life, I challenge you to bag £10 million on this week's lottery.

You do that and I'll think about agreeing with you.

And as for your health.....just keep in mind that footballer, what was his name, Foe?

i was talking about a career path russ not silly stuff like the above you just said

if your intelligent and get a good job and are regonized as a valuble asset for a company you will get rewarded depending on the job/company :)

don't want to butt in between this one but does anyone else find what kronas has said offensive, I'm not sure he refered to your beliefs as BS but those beliefs in general?

Uh uh, you said you are in control of your life so if that's true then all the above would be possible for you.

I'm sure if you were in control of your life then I'm sure Ms Lavigne would be propped up in your bed waiting for you tonight :D

And as for being intelligent and being an asset to your company....just ask the people in NTL if that makes any difference :)

One and the same thing dude.

in your opinion.
If i say i find your religion offensive(not that i really care less) would you stop mentioning it?

edit:- or if say i subscribed to this crap ADMIN EDIT - inappropriate link removed
WHY HAS THAT LINK BEEN REMOVED

no i meant within reason not the type of stuff you are referring to

ok now that was a lowblow russ :D

if i knew her or lived near her i would go over and......... you get the picture

maybe if i was rich i would go and find her and tell her...........

you know the rest again

i did say job/company dependent and MS are a prime example of a company who do that