Compensation for loss of service?
 

I've just found this forum after a very frustrating conversation with NTL in Cambridge. Basically, the situation is this - I signed up with NTL (phone + cable) in May. They connected us, then lost the phone connection for a week. That time they compensated me and I wrote it down to teething trouble.

Last week I lost the phone service again on Friday, and it wasn't reconnected till yesterday. Same problem as before - my real number was treated as a temporary number and disconnected. Anyway - purely their mistake.

When I spoke to customer service, I was offered a pound as compensation. No joy with the supervisor. Complete stonewall. The guy couldn't even say the problem wouldn't recur.

So, what's my best chance to get someone to apologise, offer some token (rather than insulting) compensation, and try to ensure it won't happen again. Any suggestions welcome - should I try Chris Slattery maybe (is Cambridge part of South or Midlands region?)

thanks a lot,
Matt

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

hi and :welcome: to the site , one of the mods has some useful phone numbers , it might be russ , try pm'ing hiim and see if he can help , hope you enjoy your stay here :D

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

One pound compensation?! Where on earth did that come from?!

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

The woman I spoke to said that our phone was down for 3 days, and our line rental was about 31p per day, so she generously rounded it up.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

in tere eyes that will be right , still not very good though :(

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

OK -

So, what did you lose? The ability to make or receive phone calls.

What do you pay for that ability? £9.50 a month.

Divide £9.50 by the number of days in the month that you lost the service, then mulitply by the number of days you actually lost the service.

That is your compensation. No more, no less.

My friend died as a result of a medical error. That deserves compensation.

What compensation do you think you should be entitled too?
:rolleyes:

[edit]
1) Chris Slattery no longer works for ntl. :)
2)The guy can't say it won;t reoccur - read your t&c's, ntl do not guarantee a fault free service.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Orangebird - who do you think I should talk to if not Chris Slattery then?

I don't expect a fault-free service, but I do expect NTL not to make the exact same mistake twice (and give no guarantee not to do it again). I think I'm entitled to some compensation for my time and trouble getting the service running again, and also for the fact that if the phone goes down, I have to ring a bunch of people so they can contact me in an emergency.

Not for the money itself - just so NTL have an incentive not to screw up and then just shrug their shoulders.

Sorry to hear about your friend btw.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Hmmm. NTL have quite a different view on compensation than BT. What do you think BT would give in compensation for the same situation? Answer at http://www.bt.com/customerservices/c...=our_guarantee .

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Whoever offered him a pound needs a slap upside the head, there's being anal over compensation and there's showing customer service.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

OB, I think you're being a little harsh on the poor fella - Phonelines can be absolutely vital - a lifeline for the housebound, a line to the police for burglar alarms - and in general essential in an emergency.

If the house catches fire, and burns down because you couldn't call the fire brigade - how do you recon an insurance company will see that?

Phonelines are the most essential service ANY comms company should provide - it's one thing that can't be compromised on. Isn't that why phone faults are given priority?

I don't think the issue of monatory compensation is the real issue here (although you've got to admit the £1 compensation is quite funny), and I don't blame the lad for wanting a phone service that doesn't cut out all the time, and to be treated like a customer, not a user - there is a big difference.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

... and as a PS, £1 isn't compensation, it's a refund!

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

true very true , but if that is ntl's policy it is their policy , again it is another case of ppl voting with their feet and going back to bt or whoever ;)

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

indeed - the two get confused a lot. perhaps it should be more obvious that REFUNDS can be offered, but COMPENSATION is not...

... then again, I can't see NTL Marketing letting that one out, can you?

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Each case is taken on its merits, I personally would be hard pushed to offer £1 I'd do a little more, but again it's a case of each case on its merits.

If anyone's thinking it's going to be months of free service that won't realistically happen, and BT is the same.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

The BT site indicates otherwise:

Fixed Rate Compensation

If you choose not to have your calls diverted and we fail to repair or supply your service on time, you can claim for subsequent days:

1-3 days delay: equivalent to one month line rental
4-6 days delay: equivalent to two months line rental
7-9 days delay: equivalent to three months line rental
10 days plus delay: equivalent to four months line rental.

Alternatively, you may wish to consider claiming Actual Financial Loss.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Nuh-uh...:nono:

http://www.bt.com/customerservices/c...=our_guarantee

I'd love to see ntl offer that level of service Mark. ;)

[Edit]-I've just had a read of that guarantee from BT-now I know why ntl can't offer it....:angel:

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Yes I can see all that - but I don't see why ntl should give compensation for something that might have happened (fire, burglar etc ) but actually didn't. :shrug:

I agree with you entirely. But I don't feel digging for compensation/freebies is going to play a part in minimising or preventing future faults.....

No, neither do I, IMO a (quote rightfully) disgruntled customer (unreasonably) wants an apology from the area md (why??? are they royalty??), a guarantee that the fault won't happen again (not going to happen, and I'll eat my hat if BT or any other company will guarantee that) and 'compensation'... :rolleyes: for what????

Neither do I, but I don't think he said the service cuts out all the time.

So, what is the difference between a user and a customer. To be a customer, don't you have to be a user?

PS - mattf - Vas Agridhiotis is who you need to contact. :)

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

1 month line rental. Like I said, MONTHS of free line rental isn't going to happen. 1 single month might, depending on the circumstances.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Mmmm-can I feed it to you!? :D

Now-that is a guarantee, no question about it, the "guarantee" kicks into gear when the failure occurs, but the guarantee is there for all to see.

http://www.bt.com/customerservices/c...=our_guarantee

Now-would madam like fries or new potatoes with her hat!? :angel:

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Hmmm-you say might above, yet earlier you said...

Does a 'little more' mean a month Mark? :)

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

The BT compensation scheme is very good and claiming is just asking them on the phone. The money then appears on your bill, or if it's a lot they write you a cheque. I had massive problems with my Home Highway ISDN when it was first installed and BT had a lack of ISDN engineers to deal with it so my phone was out for two blocks of 10 days and another block of 4 days. With a mobile and NTL line I was not in a rush for them to repair it either. As this was the beginings of HH and £50 a month line rental I ended up with free line rental for the first year - bonus.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

OB - I would happily have accepted an apology from the guys in the Cambridge office. They seemed not to want to offer one.

As far as guarantees go - all I want is that come next month when they sweep their list of temporary numbers, my number is not on there and I don't get disconnected. Person A needs to talk to Person B. I don't expect a guarantee that nothing ever ever ever will go wrong with my account again.

Thanks for all your replies.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

A customer is a user who pays for a commodity or service.

The whole approach to NTLs customer service just sux, if you check a thread i posted in earlier you will see that i was told "just cross your fingers" on our phone line which has been on-off for almost 2 weeks now. Now when my friends and family come round do you think i will promote the services of NTL to them? Maybe i'll just uses NTL's method and tell them to flip a coin.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

No Neil, that is not a guarantee of a fault free service. It's a 'plan b' for when something does go wrong, until the fault is fixed. Big difference. So hold the fries please, I don't think I need them ;)

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

I agree - but the post I replied to about that said that 'customer' and 'user' were seperate... :shrug:


Some CS reps' approach to customer service does suck. But not all of it. There are some great reps out there who thrive on giving excellent customer service, and I think it's very unfair of you to come out with such a sweeping, generic statement.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Exactly, this is why the telephone cabinets have battery backup built in incase of power failiure. BB/DTV does not have such failover as it is not a requirement because it is not an essential service.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archi...s/cons0602.htm

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archi...htm#Yourrights

The same legislation makes disconnection of phone lines all teh more difficult. Outgoing blocks (except 100, 112 and 999) but not a disconnect.

To NTL the customer is the one who pays the bill, head of household, signatory on the contract.

In addition to the customer, who when they pick up the phone is a user of the service, their partner, friends, children etc who may use the phone line connected to that house are also users of the service.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

You should have gone to Specsavers!! :cool:

A guarantee is exactly that, a promise that if something goes wrong that it will be sorted.

Do ntl have such a gurantee? (no)

All they say is that they "don't gurantee a fault free service"-not what they guarantee to do if it does develop a fault. :rolleyes: :td:

Whatever way you look at it-BT offer a guarantee.....

Extra fries for Miss Bird please! :D

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Whilst you make thing its unfair, these are the only kind of people i have dealt within in the last 3 years as an NTL customer.

1. From having support people cut me off numerous times whilst trying to pass me from person to person (and me having to indure another 20-30 minutes call over again).
2. People who blatantly lie to you about whats happening, my cable modem was down in rugeley about a month ago, when i phoned them up and told them the area was down they denied it and told me it was just a local fault and there was no issues elsewhere. I would have accepted a "Im not sure what the status is in your area" but not a very forcefull "your the only one experiencing problems sir"
3. Support telling me that i have to crosss my fingers and hope
4. Trying to get through to support at 6:30 about a month or two ago and told that my problem wouldnt be answered today as support was busy so phone back tommorow.

If you were to have the same problems with your other utilities like electricity/gas/water would you accept the same level of incompetance?

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Neil we're not taling about guarantees in general - go back to my post where you picked this up, I stated about no-one guaranteeing a fault free service - fault free means no fault - not that if there is a fault we'll sort it so you're not affected.

Please stop twisting my words to suit you. You are neither stupid nor ingnorant, quite the opposite, but choosing only to reply to ceratin parts of posts only serves to contradict my opinion of you :(

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

/pulls up chair, gets popcorn, and settles in for a night of word Boxing ...
Ding Ding Round Three :D :D :D

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Nemmy, please tell me that you at least understand what I'm getting at??? :erm:

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

No, I'd cut my losses and give my heard earned cash to another company... :rolleyes:

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Guarantees are subjective ... it's all down to the small print.

A Guarantee entitles the user/purchaser to receive a replacement product, or have the faulty goods fixed. That's basically it.

BT offer no better a guarantee that NTL, when applied to the service, as BT cannot offer a "fault free service".

How each company deals with a fault/problem is extremely diverse. To compare BT with NTL on this point is unfair.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Makes a change I'm backing Neil on this one.

Nobody can guarantee a fault free service. :D Of course they cannot.

What they can guarantee is the action they will take to resolve that fault and compensate the customer for the inconvinience that fault has caused, time off work waiting for an engineer, extra mobile phone call costs, inability to do things they would prefer to do. NTL do not seem to be able to offer such a guarantee or compensation, merely best endevours. BT, Kingston etc do offer such a guarantee (what does TW do anybody?).

BT's compensation scheme is not set by government or because it was once the state providor of telco, it is part of the value add of their service. They believe that they can get more customers having and honouring such a guarantee, than by not.

It's the same in many other industries, where the better perfoming manufacturers offer better guarantees, Mielie's 10 year guarantee for household appliances, Dyson 2 years on erm Dysons. Honda and the Japanese car manufacturers when they moved from a 1 year 12,000 mile to 3 year 60,000 mile warranty.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Agreed

Actually yes they do, it's in the terms and conditions.

Nor do BT, or anyone, it's usually best endeavours ...

Words are great, where's the evidence that it actually happens ??

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

This argument can be applied to other industries as well .... Cars, Washing Machines, Driers, Tele's. There will be Heaven and Hell stories there too.

Not everyone operated the same way, some are better some are worse. But NTL are NOT that bad at fixing faults, once they have recognised the fact that there is one.

The biggest fault with NTL is the CS, more training and understanding of their own Network.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Holy crap, what does it take to get you people to read just what is typed, not expand on what you like to think I may have typed just so you can catch me out?????

I quoted that no-one gurantees a FAULT FREE SERVICE (END!!!!!!!),and that I would eat my hat if any other company did offer a FAULT FREE SERVICE (END!!!!!). And no-one does, not even BT. I made no comparison to what either company do in the event of a fault.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

However, please feel free to ad lib on my words, to suit your own argument.... :mad:

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Halle- bloody- luja. Someone gets it, someone actually looked at my point OBJECTIVELY, WITHOUT BIAS, OR PREJUDICE. I luv you Nemmy. XX

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

But ntl still don't offer the same guarantees that BT do ! :angel:

I do take your point btw OB (you know I do ;) )

Just for the record-I know no one "guarantees" a fault free service, but they kinda do, as a "guarantee" is something that you put into place in the event of a failure-I.E you buy a brand new car, it is "guaranteed" against breaking down, that doesn't mean it won't break down, it just means that you are covered against costs/replacement car etc etc in the event of a breakdown.

If you get my drift.....:erm:

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

I remember being with BT when my phone was down for three days due to water damage in the cables tto the exchange they sent me a hamper it was a total surprise.

An apology letter and free call credit

No arguing with CS no having to ring up many times

I was quite impressed, a few months later got talked into cable TV with a Cable and Wireless salesman, cheaper calls to the middle east etc ( now more expensive with NTL).

You must admit NTL need to learn to compensate like BT

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

I agree, no one offers a fault free service. However, I, and I would guess a good many other people, would take this to refer to faults in the technical sense, a broken cable, a downed line, that sort of thing. I do not assume that they mean fault in the general sense of the term.

In this instance, as it has been described in the original post, it is not a fault, it is an error on the part of NTL that could have been entirely avoided, and is due to incompetence on the part of one of more individuals.

Do you not think NTL have an obligation to provide a service without making this sort of stupid mistake? This is not an issue that was beyond their control, this is an issue entirely within their control. Whether the problem be poor training or a monkey in the workplace, NTL need to pay attention to this situation and ensure that it does not happen again. As has been stated earlier, a telephone can be an important lifeline for some people and it is simply not acceptable for that lifeline to be removed simply because there is some idiot dealing with customer accounts.

If I were in this situation you can bet your life that I would be pushing for an apology, I would be pushing for some form of compensation, and I would be pushing for a guarantee that this sort of problem wouldn`t happen again. This is not a back-hoe incident, this is an error with procedure and process, and those should be structure to ensure that this sort of mistake cannot be made. Given the context of the guarantee asked for in the original post, I honestly do not believe that this is an unreasonable demand to make.

I know you like to defend NTL, loyalty to an employer is commendable, but sometimes you are attempting to defend the indefensible. There is a fine line between blind loyalty and blind ignorance, I would hope you do not make the mistake of crossing that line.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

I spoke to a guy today who has had no telephone service with BT for 2 weeks now, apparantly a construction issue has cropped up after they installed him and started charging him for the service, he has been offered no compensation and no explanation about why this wasnt picked up before the install, hes now disconnecting with them and getting an NTL phone line.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

They do too much of that and they will cut into the bosses bonus.

Incog.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

This does not mean he has'nt jumped from the frying pan into the fire does it?
It is all about how companies handle their customers, forget all this, well divide your monthly rental by x and this is all you get.
Do'nt say, well BT do the same thing, because it is not BT that NTL should be concerned with, it is keeping hold of your customers, and that means moving the earth to do it.
Yes, faults cannot be avoided, we know that, but sometimes NTL just seem incapable of giving what they spout they will, and when a problem occurs the customer is treated like just an annoying piece of rubbish on the heel of their feet.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Well summed up. :tu:

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

So .....

NTL have no guarantee that matches BT ..... so what ...

NTL will use best endeavours to rectify a fault.
BT will use best endeavours to rectify a fault.

If the NTL fault is an extended fault they do on occasion offer compensation, if you ask for it.
If the BT fault is an extended fault they do offer compensation, if you ask for it.

BT have been going a lot longer than NTL, and the guarantee quoted earlier is strictly for phone lines only. NTL have a more diverse product range, and still have some ground to catch up on, but I will say again, they are getting better.

The recent problem I had with the phone line bore that out too. Not everyone who has experienced a fault will automatically clamber on the compensation bandwagon, most are just happy that the fault has been rectified.

I'm not saying that NTL are wonderful in all aspects of their business, the CS experience really needs attention, but they are getting better.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Actually, I think that a guarantee, when applied to a service with no actual physical product (such as a phone service) implies certain levels of service.

True, BT cannot guarantee a fault free service, nobody can. You can have the most advanced and best maintained phone network in the world, but all it takes is for someone to dig through one of the cables and you get a fault. I don't think anyone expects NTL to offer this.

It's also true that how each company reacts to a fault is different. This is where I think NTL could improve. Looking through their site, BT do NOT guarantee a fault free service. They do, however, state that in the event of a fault, they will offer free call diversion (don't know if NTL do this), and offer compensation.

So, Nemy, I do not understand how you can say BT and NTL cannot be compared in this way. Both TelCos do suffer faults. Both do (in my experience) fix them quickly, but, if BT fail the customer in any way, they compensate (according to the website, in most cases it is automatic). NTL don't do this without asking. IMO. if NTL want to compete with BT (and they do need to), they should do this.

One final point: When I was first upgraded to 1Mb, I had major problems with the STB dropping the connection (actually, at one point I was without any broadband connection for nearly two weeks). It took several phonecalls and about 4 or 5 engineer visits to convince NTL that there was a fault with the STB, and that the problem wasn't with my own hardware (which, being a technician, I could have told them over the phone). I did feel at the time that I should have been offered some sort of compensation for this. I shouldn't have had to ask.

Edit: Having said all that, I am with both BT and NTL, and I can honestly say that I have had very few problems that either company have not sorted out quickly, so I have no real complaints about either company.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

But as I pointed out above, I do not believe that issues of "fault" in the sense it is being commonly use here apply. This is not a "fault" in the technical sense which could be unavoidable, this is a "fault" in terms of personal or systemic incompetance.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

BT will offer it if asked, NTL do on occasion. I believe that on this occasion the customer encountered an unsupportive CS employee. IMO the CS should have been more co-operative with the customer, and need to offer a uniform level of Customer Support. This I believe will come with time, the franchises operate independently, the networks are different, even down to the phone service. With such a fractured infrastructure as this, it will be difficult for NTL to provide the same uniform level of CS that BT do.

Things are getting better, and as things progress the CS level of support will increase too. I don't believe that there is any real policy within NTL to fix problems to any timescale, certainly not that can be applied across the whole group. Best endeavours is what you will get, and some will be better than others.

Slowly the fragmentation will decrease, NTL are/have already invested heavily in the BB Network for the upcoming upgrades, hopefully this will continue with further investment in other areas of their infrastructure.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

The difference is that BT have to because they have a service guarantee.

ntl have no such guarantee if they let you down-I wonder why..... :scratch:

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Fair enough. As I have said in the past, all companies do have good and bad employees. BT has been touted many times on this site as an example of good service, but I have had variable service from them too (sometimes good, sometimes bad). Same with NTL really.

The loss of broadband example I gave above isn't really anyones fault (it was a dying STB), but I wasn't too impressed that each time I called, I had to go through exactly the same procedure (which didn't work reliably the first time I did it, so I didn't hold out too much hope for all the others). It was as if whoever I spoke to wasn't actually logging that I had had problems, so the next C/S person didn't know I'd been through the procedure.

But, eventually, I managed to persuade an engineer to give me a new STB, and that solved the problem.

BTW, Nemesis, according to the website, if BT do disconnect you accidently, they automatically offer compensation. I see no reason why NTL could not do this. They would need to do what BT have done, and ensure processes and safeguards are put in place to prevent problems, but BT have managed it, NTL should be able to eventually.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Nemmy's just hit upon the crux for me - the level of Customer support we get from NTL should be uniform and fair, not a lottery of how generous the operator is feeling.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

That is absolutely spot on.

The difference is with BT, that it doesn't matter one iota what the CSR thinks you are entitled to for 'X' fault, the BT Guarantee clearly & openly states what you will receive.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

This whole £10 a month = 33p a day thing is not compensation, it is restitution, you paid for a contracted service that did not operate so therefore it is probably illegal to take money for something you did not proved.

Compensation goes over and above refunding the monies for the days you did not have a service (i.e. pro rata charging for the working period of the month).

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

So what compensation do you think is due for 3 days loss of phone line?

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Agreed, I've looked and spoken to them, and there is no such guarantee .... :(, but I still stand by my points above.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Personally, it's not about the phone line costs, it's about the way that the problem was handled (or not)

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

/waits for "Same as BT" .....

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

yep, agreed .... this thread was not as much about compensation, as how the customer was handled.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Good for you. But that's not what I asked, or what the start of this thread was about.

Again - So what compensation do you think is due for 3 days loss of phone line?

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Yes it is :erm:


Same as BT? :D

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

... and there it is :D

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

In this instance, given that the problem should have been avoidable in the first place, I don`t think that free line rental for 2 or 3 months would be unreasonable.

If there is no accountability for NTL interms of incompetence then what incentive do they actually have to improve the service?

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

It's unfair to ask a victim how much they think they should recieve, and they should never have to be made to feel uncomfortable.

There are professionals who can decide how much compensation is suitable under different circumstances - how to you think BT got their levels?

I'm no expert on compensation levels so will not be drawn on how much I think is suitable. A brief consultation excercise by NTL would settle all these inconsistancies in one fell swoop.

[EDIT] Inflammatory comment removed

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

BT have a nice simple process that doles out a bit of cash and gives people a warm fuzzy feeling.

How much do I think is reasonable in this case. Well I think the OP should work out how many hours they have spent waiting around for NTL to visit, on hold to / speaking to NTL and multiply that by at a minimum £6, or their salary. Thats how much it has potentially cost them. If they have had to take a day off work because of it then lets work out what a days holiday is worth to the OP, if they earn £30,000 a year have 4 weeks holiday and 2 weeks of statutory holidays then they earn 30000/46=652 or 130 a day, make a simpele 33% tax and NI adjustment they take home £87 a day. So if NTL made them wait at home all day then lets say £87, that is fair recompense.

... and i did'nt say "Same as BT" :dunce: doh I just did!

Hmm, when you look at the calculations in my post you can see that BT's numbers compared to the amounts the customer could justifyable ask for are quite low, yet most feel they are reasonable - cunning heh.

OB riducule away. I've made claims like this before and been paid them. They know if it got to a small claims court they would need to and the hourly rate the legal department charge would probably exceed the claim in 20 minutes.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

I wasn't asking the 'VICTIM'... LMAO - You think he'd lost a limb in some terrible medical blunder... :rolleyes:

I was asking anybody who didn't think a refund of theio service lost was enough. There seem to be plenty on here who would ask for compensation that don't seem particularly uncomfortable vocalising what they think they shouldn't have received (ie £1).... .

I have no idea, further more, I don't care. :)

Then I suggest you sort your hearing out. All I wanted was opinions. So many people have their ideas on what constitutes crap compensation - I wanted someone to let me know what their idea of good compensation is. [EDIT] Inflammatory comment removed. So, thank you Dr Wadd, for being the only one to actually answer my question. :) :tu:

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

I've got around to responding now, been a bit busy this morning to construct a reply.

Which brings this full circle back to your earlier post that I missed.

Firstly I am saddened to hear that. What do I think he should be entitled too. Well depending on his circumstances sufficient to support his family in the style they were accustomed to until their dying days. Or compensation to those near, parents siblings etc so they could take some time out to reflect on his life, and maybe put some funds to charitable causes that will help others in his situation. Sadly the medical profession are very good at closing ranks in such situations.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Actually OB you asked a question I wanted a straightforward answer to.Interesting that there were very few direct replies.

As for suggesting that OB is out to cause upset!!Piffle.She just doesn't suffer fools and I can see her point that some people expect too much and forget that a business can only respond as a business not a social service.

Anyway to suggest these days that a landline is the ONLY form of telecommunication is a misnomer.We are in the age of the mobile and most households even those of the elderly have access to another source of communication.

I think that compensation should have been restitution of the loss of service for each day and the same amount again for the inconvenience.A months free service should come later if the problem isn't resolved.After this then the customer should be asking themselves if they want to stay anyway.

Incog.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

She was 19 with no dependants, diagnosed with gastroenteritus (sp??), when it was really a burst appendix. The rest is easy...

- I think the sum her parents received wasn't even 5 figures. And her parents weren't bothered about the money, just that someone from the NHS took reposponsibility for her death.

The point I'm trying to make is (not ridicule if I can possibly help it,) is that people whine for compensation for three days of not being able to use the phone. IMO, those that find this of utmost importance need to work out their priorities. All :notopic: but linked...:shrug:

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

They recieved bad customer service, and mockery all round - sounds fairly victim like to me.


How can you expect to have a balanced argument if you don't want to look at the competition? If we're trying to create a constructive idea of what compensation should be, I think it would be wise to look at what other people are offering.

And if you don't care, why post so much?

and all I was doing was questioning the relevancy of asking for those opinions when they're clearly not being done in an effective market research style.

[EDIT] Inflammatory comment removed
Sean

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Who on earth would a business rely on people using other businesses as a backup?

"Sorry your phoneline's dead - why not use your mobile instead?"

"Digital telly not too great? Go off to sky then!"

OK, perhaps i'm getting a wee bitty carried away there - apologies for any ill feeling.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Exactly. Quite frustrating....

Thanks for seeing my POV. :)

I was going to say that, but no doubt I'd have got shot down in flames....

:tu:

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

*.........................*.... oh, why bother. If all you're going to do is insult me and evade my direct questions, then I really couldn't give a rats behind replying to you. :)

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

[MOD MODE ON]
[SCOUSER MODE ON]

CALM DOWN!!! CALM DOWN!!!

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[MOD MODE OFF]

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

So?If you have an alternative you are not high and dry.Even if you don't own a mobile I bet you know someone who does.

Well it's a choice?More than anyone had 25 years ago. :)

Incog.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Sorry Nem xx

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Yep - I do apologise for egtting a bit flippant, obviously this is more important to some than others.

The point I was trying to make, albeit in my own hamfisted way, was that you shouldn't HAVE to have a backup of an essential service like a phoneline.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

OB, I respect the way you help people on this site in your capacity as an NTL Employee, however find your way of putting across points somewhat abrupt. I apologise if you (or anyone else on the site) feel I was being rude or abusive towards you, but I hope you can understand that you do sometimes rub people up the wrong way and can bring out a defensive postition.

It's a shame it's got to this point, I hope these feelings don't run so high again.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Agreed, but the offer ny BT to sidetrack your calls is NEW. Even with a broken down car not all garages offer a temp replacement, and what about Gas supply, Electricity, Washing machines, etc etc ...

What BT does os great, but is by no means the NORM ...

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Hey, it's all virtual ... :)

OB is very opinionated, I for one enjoy the frankness she brings to the site, and to me is a typical woman :D ....

I don't think any harm has been done .... now please play nicely :D

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

So we will rip out all the phone boxes then?

We have always had to have some form of back up.I remember the days of BT(and BT only as there was no choice) when your phone didn't work you had to go to the nearest public phone box.No talk of compensation then or even of restitution.

Incog. :)

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Agreed (and sorry for your loss BTW). A few years ago, one of my family had back pain, that was caused by a tumour (not malignant) that was repeatedly misdiagnosed by our GP. Put basically, he mis-read an x-ray, refused to refer this person for an MRI scan and diagnosed the tumour as (alternatly) bad/too good posture. One day, this person saw another doctor who immediately referred them to the local hospital, who did an MRI scan and found the tumour, then referred this person to the Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital. Now, this person survived (only just - when they got the op they needed, they were around 1 month from death), but will be affected for the rest of their lives. Anyway, I digress. We did start to fight for compensation. Not, as you have said, for the sake of the money (although it would be nice), but to get someone (preferably our now ex gp) to take responsibility for the mistake.

I can honestly say, I never imagined the NHS could clam up so tight. We have never got any compensation (although I do have it on good authority that our ex-gp had the costs of the treatment at RNOH - many thousands of pounds - cut from his budget), nor did we get an apology.

So, I do agree that loss of a phone line (unless you are disabled and housebound) is not that much of a problem.

As to your question about how much compensation: I think BT's offer is quite fair. Although I will stress that DTV and broadband are not what I would call essential services, so the compensation should be just the line rental for the phone.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Actually, BT are doing a fairly good job of that round my area already. Well, taking out the phones (they actually leave a note where the phone was to the effect they have done this) then leaving the boxes to get vandalised..

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

What you have to remember is that the telephone is not just for idle chit chat and is a two way service. We have three mobiles in the house but could still experience problems and suffer financial loss if our NTL line was down. Consider the following incidents that have happened to us in recent months.

Our 4 year old grandson was injured in an accident at school. The school tried to call my daughter on her landline but she was out so they tried her mobile. They got no response because she was driving on the motorway so they called our landline which they had the number for. Fortunately we were in and answered, but if the line had been out of action?

We had a problem with our cooker and was told that an engineer would be with us on the Monday and he would call during the morning to tell us when he would be arriving. He did call and near to the time that he was due he phoned again to say that he couldn't find our street. It is a fairly new cul-de-sac off a side road and does not appear on street plans yet nor is likely to be known by anyone other than residents on the street. As our landline was working all went well and we were able to slip out for a couple of hours before he was due to arrive. If our line had been out of action though we would have had a problem.

There could be many reasons that people who do not have your mobile number want to call you on your landline and missing that call through a non functioning telephone line could cost you a lot of wasted time and money.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

The thing is, it is not easy for a garage to offer you a temp car, they have to buy the cars which can cost a lot of money. With Gas and Electricity, it is also difficult (unless the Supplier lends you a generator for the electriciity, or camping gas appliances and a bottle for the gas). Call diversion is just a setting on the exchange, and should be relatively easy (and maybe cheap as well) for NTL to implement.

They are competing with BT after all, and one of the areas BT is competing on is Customer Service.

Edit: One other point. As pointed out by ianathuth above, a phone line can be considered an essential service (and indeed is by ofcom). Most people can (for a short period at least) do without Electricity or Gas. The only exception being for heating in Winter.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

We are also forgetting that some services cannot be diverted from your landline, bit difficult to dialup (whats that) from a mobile, send a fax from one, and more importantly have your burgler alarm monitoring diverted via one. So the line being out can cause some people insurance worries (or internet withdrawal symptons) too.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

:tu: :tu: :tu: very well said, I need say no more.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

I think that people are forgetting that it was not what actually went wrong in the thread starter's situation, but how it was handled by ntl....

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Actually, I thought that was the point we were trying to make?

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

It was/is, I was just trying to get away from the 'how much do you think he should get for his phone line being down for 3 days as phone lines aren't really that important these days as everyone has mobiles" kind of thinking. :)

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

With respect Neil, not everyone has a mobile phone, yes a good majority of people do, but does that mean that the fact that somebody's line was down is not an issue.
I read more and more about phoneline problems that NTL customers suffer on here, the issue is where problems are recurring on a regular basis, the question has to be asked whether NTL are fit to run a telecommunication business.
I do not expect not to have a problem, but when it happens I would hope it is a rarety, and without asking I would be properly compensated, people may ask by how much? I will put my head on the block and say £50.
Yes, it does seem an extreme amount to some to pay for a line that is down at the least a day or so, at the extreme longer.
But what this would do, if companies had to pay that amount of money out to customers, they may soon get their acts together.
How much money is invested in the quality of the wiring/systems used by NTL? at a guess I would say as little as they can get away with.
So if poor quality infrastructure is in place, what can people expect?

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

I think you've misunderstood me m8....

I wasn't saying that way my point of view, I was just trying to steer the thread 'mentality' away from that way of thinking, as that is where it was going. :angel:

I still think that ntl cocked it up and handled it badly, & that deserves compensation from ntl-if only to say "we acknowledge that we treated you (our customer) poorly.

The fact that they offered £1 sums up some people's attitude towards their (wage paying) customers to me.

In other words, they still don't seem to give a fig IMO

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Neil, very sorry, jumping in with two feet on my behalf comes to mind, sorry.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

No worries at all m8, no offence taken whatsoever. :tu:

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

A lot of people are missing the point.

The service went down, and putting it right was botched.

The original poster should have been given more than a quid. That's a joke. I don't care if it works out at exactly the pro-rata of the monthly rate, that is NOT the point.

Most ntl staff do treat customers with respect and dignity, this is one case where that didn't happen.

Part of the company's 'turnaround' process, in getting back to an excellent level of service, has got to be getting out of this habit of never admitting we got it wrong and never saying sorry. Too often we go on the defensive all the time. This is wrong. It is less widespread than it was, but it does still happen, as it does in so many large companies.

One cannot allow the urine to be extracted obviously, but a little understanding and acceptance of a botch up wouldn't go amiss.

This is something I am always banging on about. And it's not always about money. Some customers really don't want money off. I even had one guy refuse it the other day. He just wanted the service to work...and as a customer myself, I know exactly where he's coming from.

Thankfully we got him fixed and I gave him the money off anyway...he can always argue about it when he gets the bill :D

I know the terms say the service is not guaranteed to be fault free. Do we really think a customer reporting a fault needs to have that flung in their face when they call up? No they don't!

Sorry to rant. This is a big one for me. Standards are everything, businesses grow faster that way.

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

I couldn't have put it better myself Mark. :tu: :clap:

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

and they failed to re-deploy you, why? :(

if the 'role play' was the problem, then the test is wrong, you are evidently 'customer focused' :)

It makes me :mad: when a good employee is binned because they do not fit into a 'KPI style' structure - who should say what the 'key' factor is, in the relationship with the customer - certainly not Marketing, for a start. ;)

- oh, & it's up to you, but I will miss you, if you decide to stop posting here :monkey:

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Well put!

Re: Compensation for loss of service?
 

Becasue Mark is not what ntl want (customer focused)

He is, we know him of old. ;)

Since when have ntl & logic gone hand in hand-their attitude as described by Mark above, is no different to when I 1st got their services, & when Frank 1st started .com some 4 years ago. Now I'm sorry, but if you can't change that cancerous attitude to customers int hat amount of time-you ain't never gonna....:nono:

A lot of people will miss Mark's help if he goes-he know that we don't want to lose him, come what may.