why are black people underachievers ?
 

comedian bill cosby launched a stinging attack on the black community, he rasied key issues such as black kids " running around not knowing how to read or write and "going nowhere." he also had harsh words for black men saying "Stop beating up your women because you can't find a job."

cosby previously slated the black population for squandering oppertunities given to them by the civil rights movements.

the attack launched in may was about "dirty laundry"

he also said

source: yahoo news

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...cosby_comments

somebody stand up and applaud this man, this is exactly the reason why using such words as n***** is a bad influence, not just on parents the generation growing up, under the influence of rap, hiphop, thinking they are 'fly' with saying such repulsive words :rolleyes:

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

sorry but isnt nigger used as a normal term amongst black ppl and not as a derogatory term :erm:

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

its derogatory to me. not just me it seems, would you want someone to continually say that though :erm:

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

not saying i would , just pointing out what i thought :angel:

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

so did i :ninja: :naughty: :D :p:

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

I think it would me be more accurate to ask why SOME black people are under achievers because there are plenty of examples of over-achievers like Linford Christie, Sorena & Venus Williams, Lenny Henry, Bill Cosby, Will Smith, Nelson Mandela, and many others.

In fact you could widen out the discussion and ask why are some people under achievers because underachievement manifests itself in white people as well, though perhaps not to the same degree.

Some reasons which spring to mind are poor family upbringing both financially and culturally, development of negative attitudes, lack of personal intellectual and language development, restricted opportunities, poor education and/or poor attitude towards education etc but these and other factors will apply in different degrees in the lives of specific individuals.

When these things start to change in a positive way some black people and indeed some white people will be given the chance to achieve things.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

But what about in the world of sport, especially boxing and long-distance running, where the best of the best usually turn out to be black?

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

very true, Bill Cosby, being black, could say that, without being called racist, but I do think it applies equally to the white community, also.

- the use of 'bad' words to indicate affection without appearing 'weak', happens, - look at someone & say 'b******d, with a smile & it means 'I really like you, you're my mate', without having to actually embarrass yourself, by saying it that way?

I don't think thats what he had the real problem with, though, it seems to me he was more upset by the general 'bad is good' attitude.

It's one thing making opportunities for achievement available, it's another getting the people that need them to seize those opportunities.

"Sorry guys can't come out to play 'car theft snooker', tonight, I've got Air Cadets & then my evening class" - doesn't get 'cred' - unfortunately :(

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Its because they have "reclaimed" a derogatory term that has been used for a century or so...a term that white people coined as a derogatory term.

As a white person i find it distasteful.......

Some white people are underachievers as well......some black people too......I would say hes being racist as hes only concentrating on the black angle.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

now i wonder what is meant by "under achiever" if they mean academically, could that be because the curriculm is normally devised by white middle class people?

as for the term nigger, i think it is derogatory.

as for crosby's not so elequont (sp?) speech, surely if he is saying it is a general problem with black people he himself should be included, being black himself. or is he, indeed, putting down other people to make himself feel like he has achieved more? and if this is the case it shows an insecurity within himself.

gaz's comment about if a white person had made these claims it would be seen as racist... i think it still is....racism is defined as
even if you class yourself as within a race, i think you can still be racist by making general claims about any said race, regardless of if you are part of it

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Eh hang on......I forgot who Crosby was....I dont think hes being racist .....just being a moaner :)

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

And a comedian.

I think you will find that there are an awful lot of underachievers who are black.
White, Yellow, Brown whatever.

Its a class thing not colour. The poorer classes who get less oppurtunities etc underachieve nomatter what thier colour.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Here's a 13 year old's rebuttal of what Bill Cosby said...

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

There is a very serious problem among the young black males of both the US and the UK.They ARE under achieving proportionally compared to the white,chinese and asians and even to female blacks.There is a significant difference and it is impacting on their futures.

Now maybe Crosby has put it in the wrong way but I think it comes more from passion for the Afro-American community achieving all that Martin Luther King envisioned for them,rather than wanting to diss them.

Yes the question is WHY are they under achieving to such an extent and can anything be done to address those issues.However because the message was delivered in such a way the question has been deflected by the kneejerk reaction of "Well I'm not under achieving" from those who patently are not and are not likely to because they are perhaps not facing the problems that the real under achievers are facing.

Bill's underlying question still remains and he's not getting an answer.Perhaps he should ask the question again but in a more temperate manner.

Incog.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

:tu:

It is a really hard question to answer. It may be because a lot of black people are from poor backrounds but why is that? Are we still racsit? Maybe black rights is still relativly new that some familys are still suffering from the lack of equal education?

It almost impossible to answer with out a lot more statsitcs, and comments and allso a clear sense of what failure actually is

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Yes, his question, though valid, was asked incredibly badly - you don't ask why certain members of groups are underachievers, by saying everyone in the whole group are underachievers - all that happens is you get a knee jerk reaction, and no one actually properly listens to what the actual question is, and they spend their time saying that question is wrong, rather than trying to give an answer

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

imo you only have to look at the role models that young black men have......rapping wannabee drug dealers/hard men types. If that is what popular culture is pushing onto impressionable young men then it's little wonder they aren't applying themselves at school....it's uncool to apply themselves :( .
I won't even start on poor schools etc.......

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

your very true to what your saying, music is too influential to some people, the rap culture is something which black people relate to but lyrics screaming of guns drugs and violence are not easily given up by the young impressionable generation, i dont think every young black person does not want a decent education, i know black people who like rap but want to achieve academically, although there are those who simply want the highest GCSE's they can get if not then try to get a job, i think it varies a little, but i think 'in the hoods' its a diffarent story....

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Gang crews "in da hoods" makes life difficult no ? with questions of loyalty to your "gang" rather than just getting on with education and making a life for yourself. Also I think the way they dress themselves can be very threatening and intimidating to other ppl that they'd find it difficult to succeed in job interviews and the likes.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

:tu:

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

The problem as far as I see it is that black youth culture does not value education.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

i think you might be right there, but the enviromental factor plays a pivotal role here i think, in my view the strictness and the allowance of time to do things which are outside of education ie freinds, spare time, non educational activitys, are also a contributing factors, the sense that rap is the only thing to blame i think is looking at it from an incorrect perspective, other factors do contribute to the 'disinterest' found.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

You cant go blaming rap music, in the 80's American parents could send their children to be de-heavy metalised. Thuis was a strict regime more akin to torture than anything else. But look now, you will find a lot of high flying people listen to Rock and heavy metal.

I also blame parents, no hoper parents that can barely read or write (incidently the same type of parents that in the UK give their children stupid names) are not great role models, how can they help their children develop?

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Of course rap isn't the only thing to blame but it is probably a big part of it. It can't be good to idolise the whole 'gangsta' lifestyle thing/portray it as cool or desirable.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

i dont think you should put the blame on strange names being given to children, diffarent cultures have their own naming structures, whats alien to you and me is the norm for them and vice versa.

parental upbringing is a valuble asset, although only part of the process, if you have it in a positive and influential collective then you automatically have a head start, but its outside of that what is worrying its how the individual can control themselves, the concentration of being able to shun the typical culture of alcohol, drugs, music, teenage misbehviour that continues in to adulthood and beyond.....

there are plenty of things that can sway you on to a wrong path but a number of factors contribute to that.

exactly as per my reply to TW's post its valid for a reply to your post aswell.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

I had a black jamaican girlfriend a few years ago, and she was telling me about being in a club in London with her sisters. Apparently a black guy was chatting to her younger sister, and the oldest sister said "What are you bothering with him for go and find some nice white guy to talk too"

I had this sort of thing confirmed by a black guy who told me to stay away from black women. He said "I'm safe from them, they dont know if I have a british passport and they assume I am poor, it's you white guys who need to be carefull" He said 'never trust a black woman" !

I am not trying to go off the point of the thread, but I suppose I am saying it is the stereotypical view that black people are poor, un-educated and bad news. I know this is not true but it also shows that the good black people think the same. My mad South African girlfriend was once complaining about Quote "The blacks being lazy in South Africa" It made me laugh because she was black as the ace of spades herself. :D

I think it just goes to show there are good and bad in all, its just a pity that the UK gets more than its share of bad.

PS: Please dont flame me for the above, I am only repeating what was said to me.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Thats true, most of them there are lazy if they aren't constantly supervised.......and don't flame me either......thats from personal experience.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

And Ron Atkinson got fired and lambasted for saying the same thing ;)

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

I have a number of black friends, and they tend to say the same thing : there are too many of their family and friend who think that the "Gangsta" life if the way to go, they never encourage their kids to work hard at school "why bother - you'll never get a job- you're black" with the parents effectively forcing their kids to believe that this world is essentially racist, they actually create a self fulfilling prophecy.
Their kids will never get a job - not because they are black, but because they have no education. It then becomes self perpetuating.

The whole "gangsta" thing appeals because it makes it cool to be uneducated, and to swear, and be in trouble with the law - all the things that society frown upon.

If you believe that society is against you then you are more likely to rail against that society in a way that seems to be acceptable, even laudable to your peers. Especially if that action brings you not only "kudos" but financial gains and all the trappings that traditionally go with it.

As ever, this is my opinion - feel free to disagree with it. :angel

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

That Nelson Mandela never gets off his arse, does he?

Remove the word 'black' from the whole palaver and it comes down to a rich middle aged man complaining about what a let down the Youth of Today are. This has been said by every older generation about every younger generation since Before the Dawna Time.

As for language, the great thing about English is that it's constantly evolving (as opposed to, say, French). There's nothing better or worse about black street slang than any other English dialect. It's not the words you use so much as what you're saying with them, and there are plenty of interesting things being said.

Rap and hip-hop have a bad reputation because people can easily pick out parts of songs that glorify violence, drugs, guns, money, objectify women or use bad language, and miss the bits that say 'stand up for yourself', 'get an education', 'respect people'. This is demonisation and close to outright racism.

You don't, unless you're Mary Whitehouse or mad (same thing, really) condemn rock and roll on the basis of lines like:

'Out of the doorway/The bullets rip/Another one bites the dust'
'The squirminââ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ dog whoââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s just had her day/Under my thumb/A girl who has just changed her ways'
'Clearly I remember pickinââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ on the boy/Seemed a harmless little f!ck'
'Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream'
''Who the f!ck do you think you are/Get out of my hair/who the f!ck do you think you are/Comin' round here'
'So you can make me *** that doesn't make you Jesus'
'C!ck-sucker Tammy get your mother f!ckin' dammy/We're goin' downtown to the C!ck-Suckers' Ball/F!ck, suck an' fight/'Till beginnin' of the broad daylight'

Polo mint to first person to name the songs and writers...

Edit - 'song' should have been plural - apologies. It isn't just one song, would be rather a fun listen though.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Ludicrous?

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

The songwriter or my arguments?

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Doesn't mean that he and every other old fart doesn't actually have a point.

Young black males in the US and the UK do have a proportionally high group of under achievers.Now we could just ignore it,but it would to me as an educator suck if we just ignored the problem.If we don't do something,one of these days it will bite us.

However as long as the resultant riots aren't on our doorsteps why should we worry?

Come on doesn't anyone have any ideas?

Incog.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Song writer.

I honestly have no clue I just hear people bang on about him and his lyrics. Or is it a trick question?

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

It's just that it's the same point that's been made for centuries, without the world going into meltdown. Today's riotous youth are tomorrow's old farts. This isn't meant to belittle education, rather the reverse. If the old farts were better educated about the young, and the young better educated full stop, this would be an improvement I'd welcome.

downquark1 - it's sort of a trick question, but I did say 'rock and roll' ;)

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Well in the case of long distant running, where Kenya (my country of origin) rules (the 1st and 2nd places in men's London marathon were won by Kenyans and the 1st place in the women's was won by a kenyan) I would explain it by the fact that they and their ancestors have lived at a high altitude so therefore developing bigger lungs and having more red blood cells to carry the oxygen to muscles.
And regarding boxing, I think anyone can do well, regardless of race, Boxing takes skill and training and whoever is dedicated to their training can do well. Vitali Klitschko proves that the best of the best in boxing are not always black.

Regarding education, I feel that teachers think that Black students are not too smart and therefore they do not try as much with black students as with other students. And instead of helping black students in academic subjects they are encouraged in PE.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Can you name 5 current world-class white heavyweight boxers?

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Heavyweight is different to other levels of boxing in that black boxers do predominate (at least recently). There are white heavyweights though, Bonin, the Klitschkos, Golota for instance. Hey, that's nearly five. Eastern Europe seems to be heaving with giants.

At other weights things are much more equal.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Good point, I can only name 3 Joe Mesi and the Klitschko brothers.
So do you think that Black people have an advantage in boxing because they are black? What differences make them superior?

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

first can I say Kip Keino was 'the man' :tu:

I think this may have been done before in regard to swimming ?

allegedly the average black man has a higher density body, due to more muscle, less fat & a higher bone mass, than the 'average' white man - much better for boxing ? :)

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Not true in MY case I can assure you.It was a pretty sweeping thing to say in my opinion. :mad:

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

I have no idea if this is indeed the case but think of the greatest boxers in their class over the years....Ali, Foreman, Tyson, Lewis, Bruno (haha, only joking ;)), Eubank, Hammed etc etc. Of course there have been some great white guys (and in Calzaghe's case, white and Welsh :D) but the black guys outweight (pardon the pun) the white in terms of success.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Yea, the average West African (including african americans and caribbeans) have less body fat, higher centre of gravity, narrower hips, higher levels of testosterone and more fast-twitch muscle than white people or east-africans, Which would be useful in boxing, but I still think that its more a matter of training and maybe the black dominance of boxing is because more black young people get into boxing than white people.

Yes, it was a pretty sweeping thing to say and i'm sorry if I offended you. It is a generalisation and therefore will not apply to everyone. This is just the impression I get from my school, I also discussed this with my sociology teacher and she agreed with quite a lot of what I had to say.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

point taken, I used to live in Kenya and yes, people weren't built that way, :)

Athletics is more relevant for them?

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

I know its only rock n roll - but I like it

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Hamed isn't exactly 'black' though. He's of Yemeni origin, i.e. an Arab. Once saw him driving a silver Lotus around the centre of Manchester.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Agreed, he's not black but he's certainly not white.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Why black men like me have run out of excusesSource:The Sunday Times News Review

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Looks like a programme to watch.

Re: why are black people underachievers ?
 

Indeed....