Wot, no Daleks?
 

Due to a dispute between the BBC and the estate of the late Terry Nation over editorial control, the Daleks will not feature in the new series of Dr Who:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...io/3859651.stm

Let me guess, in the years since we last saw the Doctor, there has been a peace treaty between the Daleks and every other species in the known universe, and in fact a Dalek now serves aboard the Tardis as tactical officer. :D I can see why Mrs Nation didn't fancy it.

It begs the question though, if they don't let the Daeks appear in Dr Who, what else are they going to do with them? Sounds like the Nation estate has cut off its nose to spite its face to me.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

They've changed the text of that report....

Originally it had a part that said the family were worried that the Daleks would be portrayed as too evil.

I mean - what do they want - fluffy Daleks?

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

:cry:

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Well, you know, it's the fashion. Evil old Darth Vader was revealed to be a fundamentally damaged teenager with freudian issues over the kidnap of his mother, and not the pure evil baddy we once loved to hate. Perhaps Mrs Nation wanted the Beeb to suggest the Daleks aren't bad really, they just have low self esteem due to being genetically modified and locked in a metal cabinet from birth.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Perhaps the estate will try and do their own production with them. There were Dalek comic strips in the 80s that didn`t feature the Doctor at all, rather a Dalek hunter called Absolom Daak.

I`m more concerned about whether this is going to have a knock-on effect when they have to negotiate for the rights to other aspects of the show. Are we going to lose all the other classics such as Cybermen, Sea Devils, Silurians, etc.?

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

The BBC and others involved have not been very clever in their negotiations with Nation and then his estate over this. I think there was a running dispute before his death over merchandising, Dr Who rerun fees, DVD production, the works.

B7, another Nation classic, and Survivors, have not had such problems, the negotiaitons were handled properly.

Maybe this is the estate performing rhinoplasty, but I strongly believe it is also carrying out the late Mr Nations wishes.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I've heard it mentioned a few times over the years that Terry Nation retained the rights to the Daleks. He actually withdrew permission to use them once, in the late 60s, leading to a storyline which concluded with the Doctor (Patrick Troughton) declaring the Daleks to be finally destroyed. Nation then went off and tried to get together a Daleks TV series, which never went anywhere, and then came crawling back to the BBC. I expect if this new series proves to be a success - and therefore the only viable vehicle for Nation's estate to make any more money out of the Daleks - the same will happen again.

I don't know whether Nation's rights deal with the BBC over the Daleks was unique due to his already being an established fantasy/sci fi writer or common, in which case a lot of other people could make claims on their own monsters. Somehow I doubt they would be so stupid, however. Where exactly are they going to earn royalties off the cybermen or the sea devils if not in Dr Who?

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

One of the strange things about Doctor Who is that for at least a very long period of time (and perhaps the entire run, I`m not sure) the creators of any creatures or enemies actually retained all rights to those creations, irrespective of whether they were an established writer or not.

It would be very easy to do a spin-off with any of the creatures without featuring any of the established Who continuity. There would be plenty of scope to do Cybermen stories with a different protagonist.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

What, like Starfleet? :dozey: :D I always said the Borg were cybermen done properly.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Where's Lufty's when you need him ??? :D

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Interesting news snippet.

No Daleks for Dr Who revival
The Dr Who revival may have to go ahead without the Timelord's most notorious enemies - the Daleks.

The wheeled would-be galactic tyrants may have to sit out the new series of the cult sci-fi TV show, because of a dispute between the BBC and the Daleks' creator's estate.

The rights to the Daleks are jointly owned by the BBC and Terry Nation, who died in 1997 - and Mr Nation's estate is refusing the BBC permission to use the shrill-voiced aliens.

Ananova quotes an insider, who explained, 'He told the executors never to let the BBC use the Daleks again. Fans want to see the Daleks return, but they may be disappointed.'

The BBC has acknowledged that talks are continuing.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cac...dispute+&hl=en

>> Just out of interest - what was this dispute about Daleks? Are we
talking about a
>> similarity to the one suggestion for Star One - that the Andromedans be
replaced by
>> Daleks?
>
>I don't know if this is the specific reason but there has always been a
hazy area
>about who actually owns the rights to the Daleks.

There's never been any haze - Terry Nation has always been the guy with the
rights! Because he was not a member of BBC staff when he created the concept
of the Daleks he was able to copyright them, just in time for the Dalekmania
merchandising boom of the 1960s. Raymond Cusick, the BBC staff designer who
actually came up with the visual form of the Dalek we all know and love, was
paid something like 100 pounds (quite a lot of money at the time) as a
goodwill gesture, but has since received nothing, because it's BBC policy
that all work created by staff members automatically becomes the property of
the Corporation.

>If Nation was supprised by the end of Blakes 7, then he may not have been
that
>cooperative with the Beeb over future Dalek stories. Back in the mid 80's
there were
>rumours rattling around that Nation intended to produce American shows
based on the
>seven and/or the Daleks after some bust up with the Beeb.

There was never a bust-up as such. Back in the late 60s, with Dalekmania
apparently beginning to wane in the UK, Nation decided that there was
potential to exploit the Daleks in their own series on the American market.
The BBC agreed that they'd reached the end of their shelf-life and seemed
happy to lose them from Dr.Who, so they were seen to be killed off once and
for all in a Patrick Troughton story (I think it was Evil of the Daleks) and
Nation took himself off to Los Angeles, where he singularly failed to sell
the idea to the Americans!

Obviously, when the BBC asked to use them in Dr.Who again in the 70s he
agreed, and everything carried on as before. Nation still needs to give
permission for any use of the Daleks, and is required to be given first
refusal as scriptwriter for Dalek stories.

And I'm *so* glad they never turned up in B7... =;-)

Gareth

http://b7.cyberpomo.com/id/14027

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I'm a big WHO fan, but the daleks were totally unconvincing and boring...as were the bloody cybermen.

The only Dalek story that works is the excellent Genesis of the Daleks, written by Nation himself, however this story couldn have worked equally well with purpose-created monsters, the Daleks just fitted the jigsaw nicely.

Doctor Who will manage ok without them. Some of my fave stories were in early to mid eighties, when the Daleks were not even used at all.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I'm wondering if The Master will make an appearance, and if so who will play him.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Well sadly not Anthony Ainley since he's dead.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

exactly, hence the question

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Anybody but that yank who did him last time. The background storyline for The Master's own regeneration is well established, they could get anybody they liked to do it.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I've said this before that the BBC will not do Dr Who justice.Money will always be a consideration and unless they really have deep pockets they cannot do the series justice from a SFX viewpoint.Let us hope that the story lines have improved considerably since Dr Who was last in the hands of the BBC as well.

The film collaberation that was done with the americans and with the McGann actor proved how good a Dr Who production would look IF some money was spent on it.

However IF the storyline is good maybe poor production values won't count.The problem is that today's younger generations won't accept rubber costumes and shaky sets.They are far more critical than twenty years ago.

Incog. :)

EDIT:You mean Eric Roberts towny

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Yep, I enjoyed that one. It's only real weakness for me was it relied very very heavily on the established 'lore' of the series. Bit too much for the geeks and too little for the casual viewer. If they pitch this new series firmly at the core fan base, it's doomed from day one.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Dammed younger generation ... philistines :)

When I was a lad ......

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Rememberance of the Daleks is probably my favourite Dalek story, but then I`m also one of the few people who thought that Sylvester McCoy was a good Doctor. At the time the stories were incorporating a darker edge and hinting at interesting things to come, plot strands that were sadly never addressed once the series was cancelled.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I have a goatee beard and can do evil quite well, I`ve considered seeing if I could get the role. The only obstacle that I could potentially see is my complete and utter lack of any professional acting experience ;)

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

In no way did it rely on the established lore of the series, they messed around with it to the point where it became a travesty. What was the Eye of Harmony suddenly doing on the TARDIS, it has always been on Gallifrey. Why were the Daleks of all races putting the Master on trial? Why, when the Doctor went to Skaro to collect the Master's remains didn`t the Daleks consider that a really good time to take a pop at the Doctor.

The only thing that geeks, and I`m proud to included myself in that category, got out of the show was a sense of revulsion.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

That's not stopped any number of "wooden" performances from so called professionals.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

:rofl: ok, point taken :D

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Well I'm *also* one of those few because I, too, thought McCoy was a bloody good Doctor. It was just a pity he got saddled with bloody Bonnie Langford at the start :(

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

He gets my vote, SM and Ace were a great team (bettered only by JP & Jo Grant) and "Remembrance of the Daleks" is my fav Dalek story. I have it on DVD.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

While I await the new Dr Who stuff with interest, I doubt the Daleks, in today's technological age, would work for viewers. Robotics are well established today, yet in the 1960s, when the Daleks were first created, effectively unheard of. Whilst you could have robotic "monsters" today, they would need to have full vertical and horizontal manouverability. How you transfer that from the wheeled 1960s concept I don't think can be done. Better to start afresh with something else that can get a new generation hiding behind the sofa.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

The Daleks could finally make it up stairs by the time of "Remembrance of the Daleks", the had these nifty little hover units.

I think you could still get away with it today, after all the Daleks were essentially little blobby things in tanks. As long as that point is made clear for new viewers I think you could get away with it.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

There was that wonderful scene with Tom Baker who "escapes" from a Dalek by running up a flight of stairs and turns to quip behind him "what about your plans for galactic domination now?" The look on his face as the Dalek activates a "lifting field" and starts to follow him is priceless!

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

You'd think the beeb would bring out a new generation of 4x4 SUV style daleks, thus enabling them to attempt most terrains, complete with a blonde 'kept' woman controlling them.

For added realism these new daleks could only be found blocking roads around schools around 9am and 3am as they pick up and drop off their 'mini-daleks'.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

The Daleks lost a lot of my respect after I saw the monty python Dalek sketch :)

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Ok, you've got me there, I know my Monty Python pretty well and I don`t remember a Dalek sketch? I do remember Spike Milligan doing a "Pakistani Dalek" sketch. Can you describe the details of the Python one?

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Maybe it was a spike milligan one then?? I saw it a long time ago on paramount comedy...

Vaguely.... (it was quite a while ago)

Dalek (with knotted hankercheif hat on) comes into the kitchen holding it's lunch box on an 'arm'

'HELLO I AM HOME DEAR'

the woman talks some to the dalek.... 'did you have a nice day?'

'YES DEAR' that kind of thing.

It more or less destroys the room in a silly um way - ramming stuff each time it talks.

.... Sorry - I guess you had to watch it to appreciate it :(

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

That does sound very much like the Spike Milligan one, although I`m not ruling out the possibility that the Pythons did one as well.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I'm glad you've got a better memory than me :)

I did find the sketch as it happens - but I can't play it - it's on a betamax tape :Yikes:

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

IGN are now covering an unconfirmed rumour that there will be announcement today that Christopher Ecclestone is pulling out to be replaced by Paul McGann. They do dismiss the rumour as being unlikely, but if that is true then I think it is going to be a very bad thing.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I was rather hoping they would get McGann in to do a regeneration at the start. But no more than that.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

***You can actually see this famous sketch here****
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/ilove/tv//q/exterminate.shtml

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Now THAT'S impressive :)

If I have any more obscure stuff then I'll be sure to ask here :)

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I hope it is true.I liked McGann as Dr Who.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

He was ok in that film, but don`t make the mistake of thinking that it was a Dr Who film ;)

BTW, since this thread already has a very high nerd quotient, I feel it would be remiss of me to point out that the character isn`t called Dr Who, just The Doctor. (I`ll get me coat).

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I've also got a really good picture of Jo Manning and a dalek - but I couldn't possibly post it here ;) :Yikes:

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

So how old were you when Dr Who began? :)

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

-3, give or take a few weeks.

*Edit* I was +3 when the earliest episodes I can remember watching were broadcast.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Look what I just found!!!!

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Was about 8 or 9 when the first episodes were aired.Needless to say I watched most of them from behind the sofa. :D Saturday evenings were scary. :)

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I was one (well actually it was four days before my first birthday).

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

D'you mean Katy Manning, who played Jo Grant? I heard about that picture, caused a major hoo-hah at the time, apparently.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Yep - that's the one - and I can see why it caused a hoo-hah :)

Nice piccy tho.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Ah yes, Katie and that Gold Dalek ..... :naughty:

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Not the one with the Gold Dalek was it ?

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I didn't pay attention to the colour of the Dalek ;)

I was distracted by the assitant :) (who btw was not my fave - I had a crush on ace - I was young at the time :))

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Well it is available on the web, but dont go looking if Page3 style pics are likely to offend.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Trouble is most of the links just end up on porn scam sites.

Err...

Allegedly...!

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

It would have to be a toss-up between Ace, Jo Grant and Liz Shaw.

Thankfully I don`t have a condition that causes me to confuse the words "up" and "off" in a public forum ;)

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

:naughty: & how would you know that :disturbd:

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

The search i used produced a link as the #1 result which was most definitely, being a Dalek Trivia site, not a porn scam site. On it was a link to the picture, with a disclaimer not to click if liable to be offended.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I googled 'katy manning'. About halfway down the 1st page of results was this:

:Yikes:

Did she further her 'glamour modelling' career post-Dr Who?

And no, I didn't click the link!

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

This is the search i used (googles advanced input)
phrase : "jo grant"
must have words : dalek picture trivia

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=da...h=&safe=images

#1 hit
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...s/dalek_tr.htm

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

You may all now relax.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...io/3535588.stm

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Wohoo the Daleks will be back: BBC News :)

The Register's take on it

Time to rearrange the living room, so I can hide behind the sofa :erm:


*edit beaten to it, just :(

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

What the!!!!

And I thought the new dalek design would be a bit radical...

Here's a couple of piccys - make up your own mind :)

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I still say it looks like something from an Ann Summers shop....

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I'll ask buxom woman when she gets up :) I bet it takes a lot of batteries if does tho :)

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

That is not going to be the new designed Daleks that is still the old Daleks although they have made a few changes to the design to make it appear better looking.

There are going to be 2 Dalek stories acording to various sites. The one they are filming now is going to be episode 6 and is about a lone dalek that terrorises a space station or military base. there will be an 2 parter later one that is supposed to feature totally new designed Daleks.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

I saw them filming down at Swansea last month and young Billie looked particularly hot :D

No sign of any Ann Summers-design daleks though :shrug:

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Got any links? Even idle gossip sites will do, I'm really looking forward to the new series.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

also check the forum on gallifreyone there is a spoiler section you can get access to.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

And you'd know, of course...! :D

(And if it was from Ann Summers it'd be overpriced or tat or both! And, yes, I *would* know!!)

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Yes, seeing as their largest store in Wales is in Swansea....:disturbd:

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

And now they've messed the Dr. Who Logo around.

As for flying daleks, it solves the old problem...
"Stairrrrs, abandon the invassssssion!"

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Most buildings have wheelchair access these days... :shrug:

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Daleks can already fly anyway.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

.

Indeed, shocking how few people remember Remembrance of the Daleks.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

A pity, but not a shock ... by that time, the show's viewing figures were about a third of their peak levels in the 70s and early 80s.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Dalek takes building owner / shopkeeper to European Court of Human rights over lack of disabled access. "You've known the legislation is coming for the last 10 years" Dalek says.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

You've not heard of the Disability Discrimination Act then :erm:

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

:erm: Thats what I was referring too, came into force this year, but has been around for a while, shops, offices etc, have had plenty of time to adapt to this, but have been emu like. Of course gov't offices and railways are exempt, funny that.

Re: Wot, no Daleks?
 

Drifting :notopic: now but the crown has always exempted itself form most legislation that applies to any other mere mortals.

Hang on maybe the Daleks are needed to shake things up :erm: