Poor wireless connectivity
 

I'm having intermittent wireless LAN problems and i'm hoping someone could shed some light on it.

First of all, it is a Netgear MR814 802.11b wireless router. I'm trying to use my dad's HP laptop with built-in wireless modem ("Intel(R) PRO/Wireless LAN 2100 3B Mini PCI Adapter" apparently).

Here's the thing: In the mornings, it is fine. It maintains signal fine and it never drops. In the afternoon, it starts to lose the connection intermittently. Like only a few times, say once every 20-30 mins. The signal strength is always "Very Good" or "Excellent" even when it drops, and once it drops, it comes back within about 5 seconds.

Now come evening time, it is practically unusable. It keeps dropping like every minute or two. It normally comes back after a few seconds though. Bizarrely, I don't know wether Windows is lagged, but sometimes the Internet works even though the icon is in the taskbar, although mostly it doesn't.

Anyways, does anyone know why the wireless LAN is so affected by the time of day? It is so predictable that I can tell the time if day by how long I can stay connected on the lappy. I have a desktop using a Netgear wireless modem, and it doesn't seem to have the same problem. Now when I was setting it up (last year, this isn't a recent problem), there was another wireless network that came up in the available networks. Has anyone known networks interferring with each other which could "knock me off"? I'm guessing there is nothing wrong with the built in modem as it works perfectly in the mornings, just not in the afternoon or evenings. Anyone have any thoughts? Thanx in advance.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Have you secured it properly?

Sounds to me like someone's coming home, logging on, & helping themselves to your bandwidth.....

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Well, only the laptop seems to be susciptible, but I have secured it by only allowing certain MAC addresses.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

if ur running xp its know to drop connections and be flakey over wireless ..

sp2 kinda fixes it...

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Thanx for the tip mate. It is XP Home SP1. I'll think about putting SP2 on it. I don't really want to if I can help it, given the mixed reactions about it.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

oh also what security u using? did u see if there are new drivers/firmware for the devices?

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

I'm restricting access to the modem by MAC address. I've had a look for new drivers (http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scri...?ProductID=944) but weirdly, it only has Linux drivers, nothing for Windows. maybe it is already supported by all Windows platforms. I managed to find a HP driver on another site. Not much more recent, only a couple of months, but i'll see if it makes any difference later.

I thought the technology was fine as it is fine in the morning, but i'm trying to work out what can be causing it to drop.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

I have the same problem over a similar adapter, not sure wich model mine is but it is an Intel Mini-PCI and its wireless G enabled.
Mine isnt based on the time of day though, Mine just enjoys maintaining a connection until you need to use it (Well it seems that way sometimes :mad: )
Sometimes it drops the connection, but according to the Icon in the taskbar it is connected fine, then a couple of minutes later it will finally realise and drop the connection accordingly.
I use the intel utility though so I wouldnt have thought XP could interferre like that?
Problem Dissapears If I use my PCMCIA card, though my machine has a tendancy to crash if I use the PCMCIA while the Mini-PCI is installed (Drivers or not) so it means opening the laptop up to take out the mini-PCI.

EDIT: Just realised the card is on my desk infront of me, mines an Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG Mini-PCI

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Try changing the wireless channel you are using. Many things can intefere - including other wireless installations, some phones, microwaves etc etc.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

u using the latest router version? they release updates for them a lot as they always go wrong -

also have a secure access list is all good but to go with that do u connect using :

no security?
WEP?
WPA?

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Ahhh, sounds like it is a problem with Intel wireless adaptors then. Argh. From what you said, it sounds exactly like the problems i've been having. I don't really want to have to take this out adaptor out :(. I have a spare USB wireless adaptor though, so I might try that in. It works alright on the other desktop.

SOSAGES: I've updating the driver, but it has made it really, really bad. Now it acts like it does at night, but during the day. Although having said that, I has been up for about 10 mins now since I entered the forum, so hoping that it was just a glitch. I tried to rollback the driver, and it said it did, but the driver date didn't change. I hit rollback again but it said no drivers were backed up. I might try a system restore if i starts playing up, but seems alright atm. I don't think I have any authentication as I didn't get time to do it before. I just told my dad if he does anything sensitive like online banking or shopping, to use the PC wired into the router. It's on my list to do though.

Pem: Cheers for that. I did think about that. I seem to remember having trouble getting them to work on most of the others, but i'll try and play with it. anyway.

Thanx for the tips though guys, I appreciate it :tu: :)

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Can I add that I was having MAJOR problems with my belkin wireless adaptor initially.

It was due to the fact that both windows AND the belkin software were trying to run the connection.

Once I just used the windowsXP drivers it was ok.

Maybe this is something else for you consider?

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Ahh cheers for that. I can only really see one set of drivers in the device manager though. I might try wiping off all the drivers for it, and let XP install its own. I want to use that as a last resort though.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Is the house near others?
Does it happen at specific times of day or is it a general degredation, e.g.lunch, dinner movie time.
Could well be a neighbours microwave (or yours) or some other radiation. Any DECT phones near the base?

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

It might not just be intel mini-PCI that do it, I had and 802.11b adapter in previously and that would do the same (That one wasnt intel). I think it may be an issue with WinXP and Mini-PCI or WinXP and certain configurations with Mini-PCI.

Ive tried just using the windows software, and just using the Intel software and it still does the same so its not that either :(


Tried that, every single channel is the same, was pretty sure it wasnt this anyway since my Network currently runs fine on the channel im using, its just this one card in particular.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

No it doesn't, mine still drops as much as it did on SP1

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

The houses are detached, and i'd say a good 30' apart. That said i'm still picking up another wireless network. I can't really find anything about it, but could running two networks side-by-side like that punt each other off? I don't know if we are running on the same channel even. Don't we just get the names by that name broadcast thingy (can't rememeber what it is called), regardless of channel?

About the timing, before I updated the drivers, it used to happen never during the morning, occaisonally in the afternoon and constantly in the evening. The microwave isn't being used. What is a DECT phone? We use two walkabout/wireless phones, but the phones get used more in the morning and afternoon than night so that doesn't fit. I think the new drivers made it worse, but i'll see in the morning.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Two ajoining networks can cause interference that will cause you to drop your connection.

DECT phones - Digital Cordless phones, rather than the older analoge cordless phones.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

I thought about that, because I noticed that when it was bad, the neighbour's wireless network came up. What can I do, change channel? Would changing from a 802.11b to a 802.11g help?

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

that will just change the speed u can change the channel on its own and still remain at G if you like -

have u tested the network on B ?

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

b and g networks both work on the same frequency. You probably have interfering networks. Try yours on 1, 6, or 11, those chanels have no overlap and should be clear of interference.

You might need to bang on your neighbours door, get him to switch to 1 and you to 11, that should help. He will be having the same problems as you.

Changing to an "a" network will switch you to a different frequency, though it will necessitate new and more expensive hardware. Though it will give you a 55Mb network.

I think a chat with your neighbour to iron out the frequency problem will resolve it. If you are seing his SSID is his (or her) network secure? Perhaps you could switch yours off and leech of theirs! Save you CM bill!

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

If you can run the WiFi card software (instead of XP Zero Admin), you normally have the option to run a "site survey" - which should give you the name and channel of any other networks it can see.

Microwave ovens generally interfere with channel 9 (badly) with a spread to 8/10 and top a lesser degree, 7/11.

The channels also spread, so in the 1-11 channel space, the normal channel choice is 1, 6, 11, - compromise 4 channel plan is 1, 4, 7, 11

http://www.btinternet.com/~duncan.ja...avelength.html
If all equipment supports the ETSI (1-13) channels, then I'd push from 11 up to 13.

Video senders also share the same band, typically with 4 channels (A-D) across it.
A - CH1-3
B - CH5-7
C - CH9-11
D - CH12-14

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

SOSAGES: I'm on B atm. But G seems very popular I wonder if the difference was more than just speed, but they are both on the same frequencey (2.4ghz) it seems.

It is running on Channel 11 atm. I would say the networks are interfering but the wireless adaptor on the desktop doesn't seem to be affected like the laptop one. Doesn't appear to be the microwave, ubt i'm considering dropping it down a real low channel.

I have tried to connect to his, to see if it works, but without much luck. he could be MAC address restricted like mine. I'm guessing he would still seem my SSID.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Punky: Ive generally found B to be much more stable than G, Though G is obviously a lot faster B seems to have a much stronger signal and as such can reach top speed even through several walls.
At the moment I only get 36mbps over my 54mbps network due to interference, I used to get the full 11mbps over my old B network, though my old B network did have positional antennas so that could be why.

I used to use the Netgear MA101 USB wireless B NIC's, I now use the D-link G520 PCI Wireless G NIC's. I often find that the Case of the PC interferes with the signal of the PCI cards, this wasnt a problem with the USB cards as they had a 1m cable to move them around on.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Are you broadcasting your SSID? I found I was getting dropouts when I was not broadcasting it.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Is that a router thing? my network is currently only ad-Hoc

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

I think so. The network name comes up in the list of available networks.


Also my network is set to the access point type.

It really is the laptop that is suffering though, i'm going to have to switch the adaptors in it.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

ok now it may be too soon to say but disabling the IEEE 802.1X seems to have worked on mine.
This is under the authentification tab in wireless network connection properties for the offending network card.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

they need to make this wirless networking business easy and stable :)

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

I'm suprised it was enabled.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Yeah, have just been looking at the wireless configuration on my main PC and the authentification tab doesnt even exist.

The fix didnt work by the way, Its made my connection much more stable, lasted for 4hrs today, though when it finally did drop the connection, it dropped it and reaquired it several times in under a minute (Lasted for about 3 mins, and dropped about 5 times in total), then reastablished a stable connection and hasnt dropped again since (Only been an hour since that though).

EDIT: dropped connection again straight after this post.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Sound like its your neighbours network causing interference then, when there is transmission on that network you have problems.

Perhaps their PC checked Windows update, or a AV update.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Ive just taken a more detailed look at my laptop and it appears that my wireless NIC and my IGP share the same IRQ, could this have something to do with the problem perhapps?

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

My neighbour on the right hand side of the house has a network, though thiers is on channel 1, mine is on 13, also it doesnt affect the other computer that is connected, for some reason it only affects the laptop, the computer that is uneffected is on the same side of the house the neighbours network is on, the laptop is in my room wich is on the other side of the house :shrug:

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Nothing more to add from me on this subject then.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

hmmm, well this is interesting.....
Ive been looking for driver updates for qute some time for my D-Link wireless cards, I downloaded some updated drivers and they never worked right, one of the older updated drivers worked ok so I have been using that.
Today instead of going to www.dlink.com I went to www.dlink.co.uk and searched for newer drivers, according to the .co.uk website there are no updated drivers at all for my hardware.
This made me think that maybe there is a difference in hardware between the UK DWL-G520 and the US DWL-G520, this would explain the driver difficulties I have been having with the newest versions. It took a little searching but I eventually found my original Driver CD (I should have 3 of them but I struggled to find 1 lol) I uninstalled the current driver (v2.36 I think) and installed the original from the CD (v2.23), and the laptop seems to be able to connect to it fine ever since.

So to summarise, it would seem the problem has been with my PC all along. I probably never would have noticed if I had a WAP or Router (Hoping to finally get one this payday :D )

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

US Wireless only has 11 channels, UK 13; as such the drivers have to be different. Linksys warn you if you are updating a EU product with a US driver you will lose two chanels of wireless.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Well.... time for drastic measures. I "turned off" the wireless modem (on my lappy, there is an external button in the case to swith off the wireless modem) and connected a spare Netgear usb adaptor I had. As ZrByte said it would, WinXP threw hissy fit after hissy fit. I suspect I need to change the Intel mini-pci crap that is in there (not only does ZrByte have probs with his, other people online have had it too.) Before I do it, has anyone done this? I've never opened a laptop before, does anyone have any hints? Would any mini-pci wireless adaptor work? The laptop is the HP zt3010us. There is a real lack of info. Someone did say though that you have to buy a wireless adaptor to fit your notebook. Does anyone know which ones might? IBM seem to do one. I'm a bit loathed to buy another one, but would the Intel2200 be any better?

Any and every piece of advice would be gratefully appreciated. Thanx :)

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Where's the antenna situated in relation to wires, pc case etc?

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

To remove the wireless card simply open up the mini PCI bay at the bottom of the laptop, you will see the card seated in the slot. Firstly remove the two wires (It may be worthwhile to make a note of wich wire connects to wich socket) they are socketed normally so just pull gently but firmly and they should come off. Taking the card out of the slot is very similar to how you remove Edo RAM, simply push the metal clips away either side and the card will simply pop up, then you can pull it out and that is that.
I dont know if there are any specific incompatibilities with certain mini PCI and certain laptops so I couldnt say, however, you could just remove the card alltogether and go with a PCMCIA (Like I am currently since mine lost the will to live again) or a USB.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

The Antenna for a laptop Mini PC is normally.....
Around the Rim of the monitor (Internally)
or around the Rim of the case (also internally).

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

I have to say that my money is on the other wireless networks or 2.4ghz based equiptment causing problems. I have seen this many times on wireless networks. The main pc may be getting a clearer signal than the laptop. Have a look at the SNR ( signal to noise ratio ) reading on the site servay. Wireless networks will throttle down the speed if there is noise and will keep reducing it until ( sometimes ) the network goes completely. You could try going into the advanced wireless network properties and setting the " only connect to adhoc networks " option though I am sceptical that this will help. Try moving the laptop directly next to the other card/pc and see if the problems continues.

Its funny that you are having this problem becouse my father in-laws laptop is having exactly the same problem at the moment. Its not an intel wireless card but its a built-in one with the antenna around the screen like yours.

I have changed the channel around a few times but the other (3) wireless networks around us keep chnaging channel to. I suggest that you knock on next door as sugested and come to an agreement on the channel numbering. If you have your ssid withheld it may be that they are unaware that they are causing problems.

Hope that some of this helps.....

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Im not so sure thats the problem, at least not in my case. Since its only the one card thats effected, if I use a different card in the laptop it works fine, though both Mini PCI cards I own have the same problem, the 802.11g is much worse than the 802.11b, the 11b only drops every couple of hours, the 11g drops every couple of mins.
Its only when I use a PCMCIA card that I get a clear signal.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

That suggests tp me that its the adaptor antenna that is the problem. Have you moved it right next to the other card ?

The higher the SNR the more interference there is. It seems funny that they should put the antenna wire right next to the side of the TFT just where millions of noisy transistors are switching on and off !

The pcmcia cards usualy have better quality antennas in them..... Makes me wonder if this problem affects lots of bods that have inbuilt wi-fi cards !

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Thanx for all the help guys...

Nffc: I can't see any attenna as such. The laptop cover (the other side of the screen) is metallic, so that might be it?

ZrByte: Sounds pretty easy them. I've looked underneath it all the component areas are marked (like battery, HD, ram, etc), but none with Mini-PCI. There's an unmarked bay at the back so that might be it. Or else it might be under the battery or something.

StuartBe: I've checked the site survey info in Netgear and the SNR doesn't come up so I don't know what it is. The other wireless desktop seems to do fine though. I don't fancy knocking on this guy's door (I don't know even know where to start looking. Both the homes on either side and directly across the road are vacation homes). Even if I could I don't think the channel numbering will work. It was on 11, then I switched to 3, but it still goes on.

I'll just have to bite the bullet and rip the bugger out. See if that sorts it.

Thanx again everyone.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Mine works pretty well all over the house Intel b mini PCI with the antenna round a 15.4 in lappy screen (Inspiron 8600).

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

One of the wierd things is that mine worked for just under a week without any problems, then all of a sudden it started dropping the connection at random intervals every couple of minutes. I noticed the longer the uptime, the more frequent the intervals. Maybe something is overheating?



I notice yours is a dell though SMHarman, stuartbe may have a point since punky is using a HP and mine is a compaq (Now owned by HP), also thinking about it, most of the laptops I have seen mentioned on google as suffering with this problem are either HP or Compaq.
Maybe its an Antenna positioning problem or something mor complicated like Firmware issues, or driver conflicts (Like I noticed mine shares the same IRQ as my Graphics card, sureley that can't be good?)

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

OK- so moving the antenna isn't an option...

What protocol is the lan on, and how far roughly are you away from the AP?

Are there any objects in the (straight line) path between the AP and PC, notably walls, tanks, metal objects etc

As you move away from the AP the signal strength decreases in an inverse square relationship- are you too far from the AP?

Are you using the adapter's config utility or the XP one?

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Nope, tried all that. I've used the laptop on the desk next to the AP, and it still jumps on and off. The other wireless desktop always seems to work, even, funnily enough, when the microwave is on (it is in between the router and the other computer)

It's such a shame we have to go all through this with a nearly new laptop. Apart from the the stupid wireless modem, it is actually really nice.

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Must be a dodgy adapter on the laptop then- take it back/ get it fixed or get a USB / PCMCIA one instead, preferably from the same mfr as the router / AP...

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

A quickie for you all:

I'm running a B-class wireless network (11mbps peak). All the network nodes connect at 2mbps. Does that mean if I switch to a G-class (54mbps) network, it will still be stuck at 2mbps because of the environment interference? Or is it usual for devices to connect at a figure much reduced from the peak?

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

Thought I would add to this post

I'm currently having an issue with an Ergo laptop running the Intel PRO/Wireless LAN 2100 3B mini PCI adapter at work; it's a setup for a schools network within our Hospital. It seems that the signal fluctuates anything from 1bar to 5bars on the little status display. This is when the laptop is sat on a desk no more than 5m away from the access point which is a HP 420 device (not cheap) I have tried SP2 for XP and this doesn't seem to have made much difference.

Fortunately I had the luxury of other wireless devices connecting to the same wlan of which all are working fine ranging from a Samsung P28 with integral wireless to a windows 98 pc with pci card in the back both are within the same distance.

Why is this I have no idea but I think the solution seems (from this post) to disable the on board card and use a PCMCIA or USB wireless adapter

Re: Poor wireless connectivity
 

However, intel has published a list of known problems with the Mini PCI adapter on their website. One of the articles (http://www.intel.com/support/wireles.../cs-006205.htm) described possible drop out problems due to router manufacturers not implementing PSP correctly. After following thier temporary workaround solution, my connection is back to normal.

Hope it helps all you poms.