Take a look at this
 

Right i have just thought of an idea... im going to build a new version of firefox. Yes thats right you heard me im going to build a new version of firefox. All i need to know is what can i use instead of M$ Visio? Is it just a case of me using the following tools?

Notepad
Command Prompt

and additional tools downloaded from the Mozilla website.

WNA

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go for it , unless you play you will never get anywhere , just dont ask me to beta test it for you :D :D :D :D , only kidding , go for it :tu:

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Just out of interest... what are you going to change/ add to the current version of firefox?

good luck with it though :tu: we wouldn't have got anywhere without developers!

MB

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Good plan mate, I always build my software from source and definately feel I have a performance boost with firefox from doing so.

I'm not sure that you will find it all that easy to build with Visual Studio, but there's a guide here for doing so. I don't know much about compiler optimisations with VC++ and they may not be available. Using GCC (windows port is called dgjpp) might be a better idea. You'll also need all of the usual GNU tools like Make etc. If you want I can give you the list of configure options I used for me build.

Edit: Sorry, I misread, you wanted without MSVC++, then you'll probably wany Cygwin. The other alternative is to install a Linux distro with a cross-compiler installed (note you can still build for windows platforms in this way)

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What programming skills do you have? If the answer is "none" you'd be better off starting with something a little less ambitious, don't try to run before you can echo "hello world";

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I disagree, it's not a complicated build, as long as WNA encounters no compilation errors (like me...nightmare) he'll be fine.

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Without wanting to sound rude, but he mentioned using Visio, probably not the best start comparing a Microsoft flowcharting/process planning tool to a compiler. I think he'd be better off practicing compiling something simple.

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hello world in DOS pascal and then on to delphi was where i started. i managed to build a fully functional database system using said program after 2 years of A level computing...

personally i think you are mad to try and rebuild a browser from the ground up, but there we go ;)

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I've done nearly every programming language you can think of over the years and to be honest, I don't see the point in building a browser, what do you expect to achieve?

Is there more relevant projects you can do? I'd suggest building a real world development system, something in eCommerce or at least building a dynamic web application... such as a Content Management System that builds and maintain websites...

but that's me :) not you and I appreciate and respect you have your reasons :)

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what exactly do you mean by "build another version" ?

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Why not start small and de-bug windows ME instead ;)

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I don't think he means 'building a browser from the ground up'. All he will be doing is compiling already existing source code, at the most basic level he can do this by installing all of the needed tools and then typing:

configure
make
make install (optional)

Unless I am mistaken and he wants to hack the source in which case he'll need some good programming skills, otherwise just building the source requires zero programming knowledge.

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The thing im having trouble with already is that it wants the mozilla.org directory and i only have Firefox. Now im gonna take your suggestions and start small. Could you give me some suggestions on what i can do and what tools i need.

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see - you are all cynics, at heart, and maybe failing to seize the initiative :p:

- there's enough debate about 'who's browsers the best' - why don't we help WNA build a version.

<edit before submit> I see philip.j.fry has already said what i would have, if I knew what I was talking about D

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Could you explain what it is you want to do exactly. Do you want to just compile firefox from source code without making any modifications to said source, or do you actually want to make a whole new browser based on firefox/gecko?

If what you want is to learn some programming language, choose which one first (either Java or C++ are good) then find a good online guide or book.

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Ill build a whole new browser. Do you think im mad?

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No, but if you want to make something on the level of Firefox/IE/Opera etc where the developers have had years to build the products and years or programming experience then you're not being realistic. A good project for you, if you want to get some programming skills behind you and to start on making a new browser is to build a very basic web browser using Java. I had to do this for a piece of coursework in my first year of Uni and is not particularly complicated because Java has an HTML rendering engine package as standard that you can use.

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How would i go about doing it?

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You'd need to learn Java first :)

Firstly you'll need the Java compiler (j2sdk) from java.sun.com. I'm just off to bed but I'll definately give you more help tommorrow if you want it. Tonight, once you've got the compiler, look for an online tutorial and see if you can get the 'hello world' program to compile and run. </school teacher> :D

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Start with making your own theme.
It's easy enough, you just need an in-depth knowledge of CSS and Javascript.
These are both worth learning BTW if you haven't already.

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If you could give me a direct link it would be useful because i entered in the search box the critera you mentioned and it returned a list of results and i didn't know what to download.

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Incog puts her head in her hands and ponders the strange mix of enthusiasm,the sheer depth of faith married to a complete lack of experience with a great dollop of imagination and a wonderful Alice in Wonderland view of the world,balanced by a sudden realisation that the task is bigger than expected,that is WNA, a far from average teenager. :D

Oh well I've said it before-give the lad a chance.We've all been newbies at summat in our lives at some point.

Remember this-that sometimes we have to fail in order to learn how to succeed.

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We've encouraged him to try and learn the basics first, I see no wrong in that, if he'd decided to try brain surgery would you suggest that we show boundless enthusiam when he pulls out the hacksaw?

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Well said, we need the "shoot the moon" types just as much, if not more than was need incremental plodders.

That said i'd definitely advise you, WNA, to develop the skills necessary to take on such a project first, before diving in where sharks fear to swim and getting disillusioned.

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I wasn't critisising anyone at all Bifta but he ISN'T performing brain surgery is he?

He may fail but so what.At least he will have tried.His enthusiasm is really a refreshing change to the usual apathetic teenagers I come across in everyday life so I reckon encouragement can't hurt.SO if he fails he fails and maybe he will have learned the lesson you think he should learn.Whom will he have hurt in the process?

How many of us always listened to our elders and betters all the time and never made a mistake.Mistakes are how we really learn.We can watch and learn by example(other peoples mistakes) but I bet everyone here remembers that the best lessons learned were the ones when we fell flat on our faces. ;)

Incog. :)

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Somehow I don't think you've comprehended the enormity of what he's trying to do, it's a mammoth task for somebody exceptionally well versed in various programming languages, at the last count, going by the questions he's asked previously, he has no knowledge in that field. Learning the basics first will give him a good grounding and make him in the future able to perform the task he wants to do now, frankly, as a teacher, I'm surprised you don't encourage this sort of thing instead of just telling people to jump in feet first.

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Whom is this going to hurt if he starts and gives up?He has already had several people told him the pitfalls and if he still hasn't comprehended the ENORMITY of it then the process of finding out how big it is will be the first and possibly last mistake/failure he makes.Do you know how many teenagers just couldn't be bothered to even try?There is now among young people a real phobia of failure.They won't try anything for fear of failing which is stupid as it is a way of learning.

Anyway as a teacher I expect people to fail from time to time,they can't get things right every time.

I wonder where the present computer software would have come from if it hadn't been for the young pioneers of software who were probably told what they wanted to do wasn't possible.

Anyway it's up to WNA what he's going to do.Maybe he will heed your warnings maybe he won't but he alone will decide.

Incog.

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It's not going to hurt anyone, but obviously he's trying to get something meaningful out of it, quite why you're being so argumentative about it is a mystery to me, we've offered him advice that'll further his knowledge as opposed to him jumping in at the (very) deep end and learning nothing other than, well, to take OUR advice as opposed to yours.

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This would be what you want to download.

You should take a look around the sun site, there's a fair few starter documents on there to get you going - if you are serious about learning java, you may want to look at this as well - it's not the best book in the world (though better than others) - but it is free to download and should be enough to get you properly started.

Edit :

Also - a good IDE is a life saver when it comes to development - there's a fair few out there, but the 2 front runners tend to be Eclipse (which I found a real pain in the neck to get up and running but is free) and Intellij which IMO is a dream to work with - but it does cost money - though you can get a 30 day evaluation key.

Also look at build tools - Ant, Maven - getting a decent tool to build, will save you a lot of effort messing around with classpaths and so on.

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Im building a spaceship :)

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I tried that once, but ran out of toilet rolls and double sided sticky tape...

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You after the BIG cash prize? ;) I think somebody has already won that.

Good luck!Show us any piccys when you succeed.

Incog.

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I think the advent of consoles nearly killed a generation of programmers....

Who remembers starting to learn to program in front of their spectrum/bbc/commodore 64's or some other such home computer?

I was self taught to program on an Acorn Atom then BBC 'B' Of course it's nothing like programming now but it was a good foundation.

Good luck to WNA indeed. Just start small and work your way up.

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I was trying to point out that balance is the key when offering advice AND encouragement to students.Sure you point out the drawbacks but you still have to encourage a student enough that they don't give up on dreams and plans too early.

I''ve made a few paux pas in this respect in my time.The worst is to trample on a childs/students enthusiasm to such an extent that they never try anything that is not safe and secure in the future.

The very worst experience is to stand in front of a class and ask a question that is well within the capabilities of the students present and not one will put up a hand to answer because they are scared of getting the answer wrong.That is the most depressing aspect for me,that our children are so afraid to fail that they won't answer a question that they DO know the answer to.

Incog. :)

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Ok, back on topic ..... please.

Education, mentoring, teaching, nurturing, should be a separate thread.

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I thought that I was on topic but ok I'll leave it. ;)


After all ENCOURAGEMENTand help is what WNA wants. :tu:

Incog. :)

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we HAVE encouraged him ... where has anyone said "don't do it, you're not capable", *hint* nowhere! We've encouraged him to learn the basics he'll need to do what he wants, it strikes me that you're arguing purely for arguings sake!

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Can we stop the arguments please. Or ill get the mods to close the thread.

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Actually, I blame Dixons and Comet.... they used to have rows of ZX Spectrums on display just waiting for some bright spark to type

Just where can kids today do that when they're being dragged around PC World?!?