Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Hi

just purchased a pair of high-end Panasonic telephones with CLI and SMS

rang customer services to enable and told NOT yes NOT available in Brighton/Worthing area

I've been a customer for over 10 years - what's going on ???

CLI is a basic telephone service

Can't they be bothered to turn it on ?

When I call number my number shows up on their CLI so the equipment is there ???

A very grumpy RJ

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

How long you have been a customer is not really a factor, and CLI is not a basic service, most exchanges have not had it more than a few years, if that. They are hardly likely to not offer it just because they can't be bothered to turn it on.

The fact that others see your number is again not really relevant - it requires the right equipment on your line (at the exchange) to provide you with CLI. Your number being displayed elsewhere is not connected to this.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Ahem... haven't BT had 100% CLI for yonks?

All the ntl inherited kit must be capable, they just can't be fagged to invest in the firmware, billing and management systems to switch it on - purely commercial not technical decisions.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

No, wrong, sorry. All the billing/management systems are CLI capable. Equipment has to be physically installed at the switch for Caller Display to be enabled on lines in a region. Many areas have this capability now (in fact, the Celtic regions were upgraded recently), however there are still some areas (both on the ntl network and even one or two exchanges on the BT network) where CLI is not available. It's not just a case of not switching it on - that would be stupid - it's just not physically possible without the equipment being installed/upgraded. This is not an inexpensive undertaking.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Um, no.

Like I said, but you missed from your quote - "it requires the right equipment on your line (at the exchange) to provide you with CLI". Some NTL exchanges (and some BT exchanges) do not have this equipment installed. Since the makers of this equipment do not give it away, there is an upgrade cost to ntl/bt.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Just to expand on what Jimbo and Pem have said, this is a matter of investment in equipment, except, whereas BT can get away with installing at the exchange site, the investment by NTL has to take place at every Mux cabinet, of which there are many thousands, as the equipment has to be able to send the signalling down the copper going to the house.

Whilst the BT network has copper right from the exchange to the subscriber, the NTL network has fibre running most of the distance, so these upgrades can't happen centrally with minimal investment.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

The NTL inherited kit is exactly the problem. When BT installed their network they used all the same equipment (economies of scale) but NTL did not install their network, tens of different, independant companies did and they used whatever equipment suited them best. So some areas have CLI, others do not and some have it only partially.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

RJ, if you pm me your full postcode, I'll confirm whether or not you can get clid. :)

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

It was reported on these boards that most equipment in the celtic region was capable but because it wasn't 100% it was not switched on at all. I understand that a big cost is in the project engineering/ surveying to decide what has to be changed - it has just never been seen as high priority with ntl - which I believe is a big mistake. Because ntl have patchy coverage and they seem incapable of publishing a definitive list they cannot actively market it. Sure its going to cost, but thats business! How much is it costing ntl not to offer a full telephone service?

I am a complete convert to CLI (with ntl in my area) and if I moved I would not consider a supplier that didn't offer it (especially as my phones now support it).

CLI is also credited with solving hoax an malicious call problems.

I can't find a link re BT coverage of CLI but BT claims to have been fully digital since 1998 - I'm sure caller display and star services are now universal?

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

1. So this means that when I made my decision to go for the Nynex/NTL PHONE service *BASED ON THE IDEA* that the co-axial cable was the coming thing and would support lots of extra services this was false as it appears that ONLY by going back to BT with it's 'old fashioned' copper service can I get CLI and other Basic Phone Services

2. We've only had Broadband here in Brighton/Worthing for 18 months ago - Surely they had to make a SUBSTANTIAL investment in upgrading all the equipment the - incl at the MUX Cabs >> WHY DID THEY NOT ADD CLI Then ??????

3. If others can 'see ' my number showing up surely there must be some CLI equipment at thge MUX cab exchange - surely if it there it can be used the other way round so I can see C|LI numbers showing up ???

A Not Very Happy Customer !

Ramjet :td: :td: :td:

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

You don't just have a copper coax coming to the house, you have a copper twisted pair also. This supports the telephone, just like BTs copper pair for a telephone. The coax is for BB and DTV only.

I guess BB investment is seen as the must do. Not offering a BB service is considered a greater importance than not offering CLI on a phone service.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

orangebird could you check mine as well?

I'll PM you once you say its ok to do so. :D

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

That's fine, pm me your full postcode and I'll check for you. :)

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Poolking the whole of stafford can get it :)

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

There is no link, your phone calls are digital from the CAB onwards, the 'exchange' higher up in the chain passes on the original caller id.

The local box has to understand how to send the CLI information (it is a version of simple modem signals) when ringing your phone.

Some-one in ntl marketting clearly doesn't understand the importance of this so it is just not a priority. Perhaps they are right - the take-up of Caller display doesn't justify the investment? I really don't think they know how much it would cost because they haven't surveyed all the kit that is in use.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

For some Caller ID FAQs try here:
http://www.ainslie.org.uk/callerid/cli_faq.htm

Although I moved back to BT mainly because they offered Caller ID, I'm afraid I wouldn't encourage NTL to invest heavily in the equipment to provide it. This is because the rest of the world is swiftly moving towards VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) - and with good reason. To provide broadband needs only a couple of racks of equipment but the equivalent telecoms switch requires a whole room full. I predict we'll see STBs with a phone socket on the back before too long - complete with CallerID and every other gizmo.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Not on NTL you wont! ;)

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

BT are trialling VoIP in Cambridge soon - it will be interesting to see if/how NTL respond.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Celtic (and ex-CableTel) regions have ALWAYS had WORKING caller ID. When ntl came along and everything was merged (well... sort of merged), in order to "maintain the same product range accross the country", they were told not to actively sell caller ID. They chose this option rather than upgrading their other franchises to support caller ID.

CWC scuppered this when ntl took them over, since they were already (for the most part) caller-id-capable... So the view gradually changed from.. "we're not selling it" to, "we're selling it in some regions"..

Maybe it was a cash thing too... an extra £ is an extra £...

NB: In glasgow anyway, caller ID has always been available with a business line.. That never got withdrawn.. presumably because business have an ounce of sense.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

"Perhaps they are right - the take-up of Caller display doesn't justify the investment" [quote]

Ha Ha Ha ! - the take up is ZERO (NIL)(ZER0)(NOTHING) here in the whole of Brighton/Worthing Area Because THEY DON'T HAVE IT ENABLED ! ! !

I was quite happy to pay for the service - the phones I've got will do LAND -LINE SMS texts IF the CLI is activated - so NTL would get a montly fee + the connection charge for each TEXT

Whatz happened to them at NTL HQ have they lost all sense of Busness Direction ? ? ?

I'm getting fed up with this - what's the number to get a BT line with some proper inovations and Basic Services ? ? ?

Ram Jet

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

0808 100 5152.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Appart from the fact that NTL do not support SMS to/from landlines ANYWHERE on their network, only BT offer that service.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Funny how, when I phoned up CWC to enquire about the possibility of CLID in Bromley, I was told it would never be available.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

We've been told the view is that there isn't enough demand for it :erm:

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

I am sure that somewhere along the line, NTL have looked into it and decided the extra revenue generated wouldn't cover the costs of installation.

After all, upgrading an exchange that supports thousands of users is not something to be done lightly. It takes planning, testing etc. That costs money. That's totally ignoring the cost of the hardware (in somecases) and software needed for the exchange, together with the cost of engineers to install it.

It would cost NTL £millio ns to upgrade for Caller ID. Would they get that money back? I doubt it.

BTW Debsy, that's not aimed at you. Its not aimed at anyone in particular.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

... and really most people only think about it if they upgrade their cordless phone and realise the new one has CLI. I don't know anyone with CLI boxes and I am the only person I know with CLI which I got from BT when I replaced my cordless with a pair of BT Diverse 4010s with built in CLI to the screens.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

I suspect the that only reason BT can offer Caller ID nationwide is that back in the late 80s, they were still converting to digital exchanges, so were having to spend £millio ns upgrading anyway. It wouldn't have cost them a lot more (relatively) to add facilities for Caller ID.

Of course, the original cable companies who now form NTL could have included Caller ID too (and some did).

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

I expect it also had something to do with contractural obligations to provide everybody in the UK with the same service, regardless of where they lived.

When Cambridge Cable set up their service there was a lot of competition, not only from BT but also from Ionica. Part of Cambridge Cable's original offer was providing the customer with line rental, the equivalent of all the BT Star Services (Caller ID, Voicemail, etc.) and TV for the same price as BT's standard line rental.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

If so then the position is worse that I thought - I booked a phone service with Nynex 10 years ago on the basis that the cable companys were innovative and would offer MORE services ! !

What you and others are saying is :-

1. NTL care nothing for Innovation and supplying additional services

2. NTL regard us - the poor customers - a mere revenue items - and our needs and their duty to consider those needs are well down the line in terms of what they do - what happened to Social Responsability ? ?

3. NTL care nothing for customers definite NEED to see who is ringing them up before answering calls - I for one am completely fed up with random calls from double galzing companys and WANT to screen my calls - just like on my mobile where I only answer known callers

I SUSPECT that the real reason why there is no CLI is that NTL in some way have been 'got at' by other big businesses who do NOT want us consumers to be able to screen / block calls from cold calling Sales companys

Ram Jet

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

They are a business. When all is said and done, their aim is to make money, Prove to them that doing something will make them money, and they will do it.

One thing: Even with CLI, you are not protected against cold callers. Their number is often withheld. How are you going to block them? Not answer callers with withheld numbers? If you do, bear in mind that somebody with a legit reason to contact you may be unable to get through because their number is withheld (for instance, some hospital switchboards automatically withhold the number).

For your particular problem, have you tried the Telephone Preference Service (http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/)? I used to get at least 2 or 3 calls everyday on both my BT and NTL lines selling stuff, since I registered with them, I have got maybe one or two a month.

Erm, assuming there is a big conspiracy between NTL and "big business", surely, "big business" would be more interested in getting at BT (who still supply the bulk of home telephone lines in this country)?

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

I do exactly this on my NTL line. If I recognise the number as somebody I want to speak to I answer the phone. If the number is withheld, not available or is an obvious company number (0845 etc.) I do not answer the phone and let it ring. If the caller lets it ring long enough (9 out of 10 times it stops after only three or four rings and so is obviously a sales call) they will get through to my voicemail. If they are a legitimate caller they can leave a message asking me to phone them back.

Since installing CallerID and VoiceMail I have not answered ANY unwanted phone calls and honestly cannot see myself being able to live without it.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

They would only care about it if they thought they could make a profit out of it.

NTL have no duty of service to the customer (unlike BT who do because it is forced on them by OFCOM but wish they did not), however they do have a duty to their shareholders to maximise profits. If their shareholders thought that NTL was not doing this they would have the right to force them to.

I doubt that NTL have been 'got at' in the way you imply. However, as large banks and corporate institutions probably make up 90% of NTL's shareholders they will have been 'got at' to make sure they have the best profit margin.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

I've just been to ntlhome.com and tried to sign up for Caller Display
It asks for my postcode then goes away to check availability
So far so good
returns with a list of available features - including caller display
So I place an order
Fill in Account number name etc
then asks for banking details for direct debit (eh? I'm an existing customer)
then asks for memorable information passwords etc for configuring my broadband package (eh?.. I'm just adding a telephone feature).
So I give up and ring customer services
Guess what
She tells me Caller Display isn't available in my area
I protest and explain that ntl web page has already told me that it is available
nothing she can do - web page must be wrong she says.

Very Very unhappy customer

Craig :mad: :confused:

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Never take what the NTL websites say as gospel.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Never take what anyone from NTL says as gospel!

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

In theory you should be able to trust the NTL websites, but unfortunately it is a case of "too many chiefs and not enough indians".

Appears that too many people are calling the shots and not enough people to implement what is being said.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

And if you ever do get them, find out the name of the company calling, their phone number and data protection administrator and report them to TPS. TPS are most happy to respond and deal with the offender, oh and you can report them on-line.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Is caller Id avaiable in Stafford? ST16.
Thanks

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Already been told it is.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Last time I checked it wasn't available in Woking and I was told it was unlikely to ever be. I've mentioned it in my complaints before but have been fobbed off :mad:

Do I care about excuses of costs? No.

As a consumer who's paid a fair amount of money for digital phones with caller ID and with no indication they would not work with NTL (even NTL's "services available in your area" leaflet at the time I bought them seemed to indicate it was available), what I want is caller ID, not excuses.

I'm sorry, but arguments about cost don't hold water. In a big telecom company like this there are always going to be certain services that cost more than they'll make money back on. They make the money in other areas instead, and besides, Caller ID isn't being offered free. They are charging for it.

As for "lack of demand", NTL must not be logging the calls they get from customers requesting Caller ID.


By the way, Caller ID uses goes way beyond just screening double glazing salesmen (which can be sorted out with TPS).

Quite often I could use it to screen friends/family. Sometimes someone's calling and you're eating a meal or watching a film and if it's immediate family you might want to take the call, but others could be left to voicemail/answer-phone as you know it's just going to be idle gossip. Okay, you could leave everyone to that, but people are put off by an answer phone and won't leave a message.

A bigger use though is for logging calls. My phones will store a range of numbers from caller ID during the day. 1471 will only tell you the last number. Caller ID would be very handy in this case to check if someone's been trying to contact you (and obviously is put off by the answer phone).

It could also be handy for keeping an eye on burglars who are calling at specific times to check if you're in (if you're a bit paranoid). A phone that logs Caller ID numbers will often log the times.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

BT 1471/1571 does a lot of this now, callers numbers who left no message etc.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Here's a reason why Caller ID/Display is of use...

On BT landlines with Caller Display you can send text (SMS) messages to them!

:shocked:

Try it (if you have a BT caller display phone, or know someone who does).


More info here...

http://www.bt.com/bttext/

If you don't have caller display you get a voice mail message instead, but the display would be much better.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

You also need "a text compatible phone" as well as caller display and there are not many of these about yet - see http://www.shop.bt.com/icat/smstextp...xtphones_btcom for more details.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Only for sending texts from a BT landline. Most caller display phones support receiving them as I understand it and there are loads of them ;)

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

But on BT's site it says:

and

Which I admit is ambiguous but appears to say that you need a text compatible phone to read messages on the screen.

Re: Caller Line Identity - where is it ?
 

Yeah, not clear, but could be right. Still, it's a nice service anyway and I bet most phones with Caller Display will be text compatible eventually. Even with the ability to have text as a voice message it's pretty cool to be able to text a landline (as long as it's BT ;)).

The point was though that Caller Display does have it's uses so it shouldn't be something ignored as a service that's "not in demand" by NTL.