NTL customers breaking the law
 

Everyone at my work who is on NTL seems to have a chipped digital box. Some have a box that allows you to book Front Row movies for free. I live in Leeds, is this going on in other areas around the Country?

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Its going on in coventry too. I've heard people mention about it. It actually has something to do with NTL engineers working for the company, believe it or not.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Yup. I knew someone who had a chipped box. It was installed by the NTL engineer for a £100 back-hander.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Not just digi boxes but modems too.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

i was approched in london area and offered a chipped box by a man in a NTL VAN

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

An old workmate of mine had an old chipped analogue box on Telewest, could watch all analogue the channels, he had the base TV pack on Telewest.

[Admin Edit(Mick): Comments specific to hacking removed]

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Doubly illegal, since unlike hacking satellite (where you generally own the box), most (all?) of the NTL boxes have been misappropriated.

<comments specific to hacking removed>

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Can we focus on the discussion of customers breaking the law and not centre it around on how to break the law and hack an STB/CM. Thanks.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Ebay also breaking the law & turnind a blind eye when it comes to selling them

eBay does not permit the sale of items that can be used to decode encrypted transmissions, or facilitate access to cable, digital terrestrial or satellite television programming without authorisation or payment.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

No, but then e-Bay probably don't know the difference between DSat boxes (which can be legally traded), DTT boxes (which can be legally traded), american DCab boxes (which can be legally traded), and UK DCab boxes, which can't.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Surely NTL must be able to trace these boxes. If not the program transmissions they should be able to tell if someone is using the broadband without paying the subscription.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

I did actually report about 20 listings of ntl pace boxes on ebay, explaining why it was not legitimate, and about 12hours later i had an email saying thank for you bringing it to their attention, but they couldn't discuss what action had been taken. I checked the auctions, and all of them had been ended. I think ebay do not turn a blind eye, but just cannot sort through the millions of auctions to find them unless they are reported.

MB

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

it would not be a problem if ntl picked up yhe stb and or modems the money they must waste and yes i here you cry its not cost effective so they only have them self to blame :shrug:

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

It's happening in Derry too, but afaik, only with people still using analog boxes.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

On the other hand, there are many reported instances of NTL not collecting the boxes despite customers offers to return them & then the ownership of these boxes passes over to the ex-customer.

A colleague told me that he recently had an NTL sales guy round to his parents & they were offered a fully chipped box for £220.
I said I thought that they were not that expensive :D

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

The same thing is happening in Wales.

ntl employees or possibly contractors were offering chipped boxes to customers, I have been told this by one customer and a couple of ntl network technicians confirmed this is apparently going on.

One ntl employee was sacked a while ago in South Wales for selling working cable modems to the general public, the system is still wide open if you are in the know and are the type to take these sort of risks.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Again as said before if ntl could be bothered to collect their stb boxes then this would not be a problem i still have 2 stbs a dtv1000 and 2000 which ntl have not bothered collecting my subs in ended in Jan since then not even a phone call or letter to arrange a collection give it a few more months and i will chuck them away

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

In some areas the boxes obviously are being collected. I had a call from an NTL engineer about a week after I ended my service and he asked when it was convenient for him to come round and collect the box. I handed over the cable modem too as it was just taking up space and no good to me. Didn't want any of the wires/cables though, or the remote.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Exactly, this is how they are getting the boxes to start with.

If the person collecting the box can get it without giving a reciept it can then find its way into the wrong hands and be illegay used. The people suppling illegal boxes and modems are not buying them.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

it is same all over belfast ,you think with all the software ntl could stop this

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Just a heads up jason.ntlwogill - read your t&c's and you'll see you are supposed to return the box.....

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

It's not the easiest thing in the world to do though, is it?

I'd be interested to see what the awareness of NTL Users is to returning their box - even if they're in the process of cancelling people don't seem to realise they're meant to give the stuff back... or how...

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

In my contract ntl where also supposed to provide me with digital tv a phone line and a broadband service that worked as may be seen for previous posts this never happened my contract ended with me taking ntl to court for breach of contract which resulted in ntl giving me a full refund from oct 2001

As can be seen if you leave the customer to return the stb without following it up will a call to collect or sending me an invoice for non return of equiment to force me to return it to them they will never get it and the crooks of this world will chip the box for un lawful sale

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

So it's OK for you to preach by t&c's, but not ntl... :rolleyes: What suits you best huh?

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

i preach because i paid for a service which never worked yes i was refunded but you will be pleased to know as i live in London ntl refuse to accept boxes retuned by post i did try to obtain a return postal address but no one at cust service would give me one I also asked them to arrange for the box to be collected gave me a collection date but as usuall the engineer could not be ****** to turn up therfore unless they follow up with one of those such hard things for ntl a return courtsey call to conrirm their engineers have collected the box then customer will still be left with them resulting in the illegal chipping.

EDIT (Richard M): please do not attempt to bypass the swear filter

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Still doesn't change the fact that it's NTL's own installers who are offering the chipped boxes.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

alledgedly....

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Not allegedly. Like I said, I know someone who had a chipped box that was installed by an NTL engineer for £100.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

So it's possible that the guy who picked mine up is doing this? Anyone know if it's normal in my area for people to call and come and collect. When he came he said he had run out of receipts, but did a quick one on a piece of paper that engineers leave when they've called and no-one is home. He wrote 2 boxes collected, the serial numbers and signed it.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

NTL customers breaking the law


I will give names and addresses for cash, lol.;)

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Yes, Allegedly. You have alleged they are breaking the law and like it or not they are entitled to defend themselves in a court of law before they are guilty of this.

Innocent until proven guilty. This thread is turning particularly irrersponsible in giving engineers a chance to sue cableforum for misrepresentation.

Bangwell - you could always ring crimestoppers, they will offer a reward IF there is a conviction :D

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

So how do I go about getting one of these??

Just approach one of the engineers??

LOL

Tempting eh?...............................

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

So no ntl installers/service technicians have been sacked for this sort of thing yet then? :rolleyes:

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

A work college was cut off from NTL services over a lost payment check. Two weeks later an Engineer came round and took the box. About a week later he recived a call from NTL saying the check had turned up and would he like to be re-connected. When he told them they would after bring back the box, they told him nobody has been sent out to retrieve it yet.



Interesting....................................... ...................................

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

No. Because 99.9% of all engineers who do installs, do not operate illegally. I have been aware and I am sure ntl are aware of such 'rogue' practices by a few engineers trying to make an extra few quid at ntl's expense.

Disclaimer:- All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of Cable Forum, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message posted.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Hiya,

I really don't want to be an annoyance, but I Like this forum and as an admin for another board, who has had to deal in detail with the liable problem - I can tell you now that woudn't mean anything in court... or the press...
It's certainly never saved Popbitch or the BBC for their messageboards.

Sorry, I'll leave it at that cos it's really going off topic :(

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

can ntl not detect these chipped boxes then? :confused:

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Your right. That would means absolutly nothing in court :)

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

you would think so, wouldn't you - maybe when the harmony system properly kicks in, a full crossmatch between billed & received services will be possible?

- personally, I don't like the 'degeneration' of our society into a phase where cheap booze & tobacco, copied cd's, films, etc, are accepted as 'normal' - this is nothing more than anarchy - & unorganised anarchy is very hard to control ;)

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Of course I guess they could alter the MAC address in the box to make it look like an official box, I dont know much about the conditional access but satellite terminal equipment I currently work on uses very similar technology.

The MAC address is stored in memory associated with the ethernet processor, you just need to get in and change the address, it's done with a boot prom on most gear and using the RJ45. t's not my area but I know some very clever people who would be able to do that sort of thing very easily. The manufacturer of the chips usually have free development software available to download for this sort of thing so companies can develop the equipment to start with. Sometimes there is a password for access to change these settings but it will only stop the casually interested.

Just to make it clear, I have no interest in looking at this myself, just pointing out that for someone with the right skills all the information is readily available.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

If England was not such a rip off and we did not get charged more for less than most other countries things like this would NOT be a problem. The reason things like this happen is due to a greedy government.

Look at other things......

Petrol?? Mmmm remember red deisel??

Cigerettes.......Go to france and buy thousands....it's cheaper.

Booze.....Same as Fags.

Internet......1MB for £37.99 here... £30 for 8MB in holland. (even more in sweden etc.....)

Designer clothes?? Buy abraod....america or copy?....

CD's.........cheaper abroad......


Goes on and on and on.......

If we were not charged so damn much for stuff there would be no need for people to try and save a few bob here and there.......

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

mmm interesting thread.
1; regardless of cost it doesn't make it OK to rip off services.
2; ebay is monitored by ntl security
3; MAC address have no bearing as the chipped boxes have no return path.
4; "most" chipped boxes are sold by installers, and they are contractors who are poorly paid, treated with contempt, and have no reason to show any loyalty to ntl
5; If you are "offered" a chipped box it is your duty to take his number plate/desription and either inform the police and/or ntl. The people on this forum will be the first to complain when the service is not up to scratch (and rightly so) but you have to help. I have a friend on Telewest who was experiancing very slow connections etc. It took Telewest 6 months to track the problem down, the problem turned out to be 2 chipped cable modems in the same house, both operating at 3meg and at full tilt constantly downloading films. My point is all theses dodgy boxes do affect the quality of service.
6; Every chipped box endangers the existance of ntl, therefore endagers my job and my ability to feed my children, SO REPORT THEM!
PS; Spread the Love!

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

not to disagree, because I do understand what you say, - but ;) ......

the way to combat high prices for goods & services is not to buy them, or seek other alternatives than the 'illegal' route.

for example, in Norway booze & fags are more expensive than here, for fags, most people roll their own, which is cheaper. It's quite bizarre sitting down with a company director, who proceeds to whip out a baccy pouch & skin one up, but as I also roll my own, an ice breaker as well. Booze wise, loads of people brew their own.

- and do we need 'designer' clothes - how have we been conned into paying more for clothing which blatently advertises the manufacturer? - I try to avoid logos.

etc

My worry is that inevitably any money paid into the 'black' economy ultimately ends up in the hands of 'real' criminals - and potentially even terrorists.

So, while, as I said, I don't disagree with the points you made, personally I don't buy cheap booze & fags, I bike to work, I avoid clothing with little crocodiles on, etc, etc....

Sorry to 'go on' - I just feel that the line between right & wrong is becoming a little blurry - almost to the point where not being 'on the fiddle', in some way, is the exception, rather than the rule. Stealing TV & internet services is just one aspect of it. :shrug:

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

The guy sacked for alledged ! cable modem fraud in Wales was an ntl service technician. I certainly have reason to believe ntl employed technicians are supplying chipped boxes because a number of people have been offered them by the technician who has called to their house to deal with a fault, and not a contractor carrying out an install or simply changing a box on behalf of ntl.

There are rotten apples in every barrel at every level, its just the ones at the top a thrown out with a good payout :rolleyes:

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

I wonder if NTL security look at the seller's feedback lists to see who's buying these boxes on Ebay?

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Hmmmm, could be interesting if they did - but ti would not necissarily help, and any number of people on Ebay are using pseudonyms :(

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Have you got a degree in law? If so, I would be more inclined to take notice of what your saying. I do know that there are stages that need to be taken before it even gets to court. I still stand by the disclaimer and that we cannot be held liable for content posted on this site. However, if the content of the post is objectionable then, we may at our discretion remove it. But in this case, it is not objectionable, I know for a fact, that there has been cases of some 'rogue' engineers working for ntl who have been on the fiddle.

This thread has highlighted that 'some' engineers have committed an illegal act against their own employer, it however is not highlighting that ALL engineers operate like this, far from it.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

I have every confidence that you will run your forum in accordance with your own liable policy, I can clearly see my opinion on this matter is not appreciated and will not impose it upon you further. Sorry if you felt affronted by my attitude.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Did I say I did not appreciate your opinion? Sorry I don't think I did. :) I have for the last 24 hours researched, asked around, even asked my sister who is studying to be a lawyer. Every corner I've turned to, it seems message board owners are not the authors of the views expressed, thus cannot be held liable for the content posted. Of course any objectionable content may be removed at our discretion. :)

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Cudgelling the old grey matter recall cells into operation, wasnt there a case a few years ago in which Demon had to take down a webpage or remove a newsgroup posting that one of their customers put up because it liabled some Professor.


Good old google, found it
http://www.isp-planet.com/business/libel.html

Quote

"Dr. Godfrey won his case against Demon and the firm agreed to pay Godfrey £15,000 along with £250,00 0 to cover his legal fees. In the U.S., the same e-mail post would have been considered simply poor e-mail Netiquette."

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

That case was defamatory remarks directed at one person. We do not allow personal attacks on our members and will normally remove them before even being asked.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

but they would be providing contact details for payment

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

I was refferring to cableforum being the PUBLISHERS of the information.

Mick - you didn't say you didn't appreciate my opinion, but from your tone you didn't have to. I really just want to leave this, please let me - I'm just here to be a foum member on ntl issues, not to arge with board admins. I have my own forum for that!!

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

I think we just need to know that theres rotten apples in every barrel, and denying that it is going on just fuels arguments when at least one employee has already been dismissed because of these practices.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

It has not been denied by tis forum, it has just been pointed out that not ALL (or even IMO most) NTL ehngineers are on the fiddle.

The problem is that anything posted here that NTL feel is Libelous could cause them to attempt to sue this forum (after all - they have already closed down .com).


seaneboy : don't take it to heart, I read Micks comments and thought he was just covering his bases ;)

Gary_580: good point - I had forgotten about that :dunce:

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

That case would / should protect i-websolutions as host of the CF, not CF itself as owner of the content posted.

You should probably add i-web to such a belt and braces statement!

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

:disturbd: So does that mean that say somebody could have any number of boxes and cable modems with all channels and top tier internet without ntl haveing a clue :mad: i'm paying £90+ a month and the student house round the corner could have all services free!

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

They cant have internet, as there is no return path. But they could have all the channels for nowt, and (this is a rumour!)the boxes come loaded with £3,600 worth of credit to buy PPV movies as opposed to the £32 normally.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

No, it doesn't mean that at all. ntls Fraud and Investigation dept are monitoring this kind of thing all the time. The same as any other crime investigation, it takes time to gather enough evidence to prosecute. But ntl do prosecute and win. :)

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

That's funny - I always thought you were quite a snappy dresser :p:

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Breakin the law
Breakin the law

Na na

breakin the law
breakin the law

P.s. Okay so im bored.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Funnily enough, when you mention this to NTL users, lots seem keen to find out who it is that will actually sell them a dodgy box.. lol

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

:Yikes: People in my area have 1mb modems and they definatley work, how I don't know.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...sPageName=WDVW - looks like ebay is selling one, I have reported it to ebay. such cheeky behaviour!

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Probably straight out of the ntl stores!

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

There are always loads of ntl Digital boxes on there - How do these people get away with selling them? There's one on there at the moment up to £61.00 :shocked:

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

as i have said before in a previous post ntl only have them self to blame if they cant be bothered to pick up the equipment then why should you store it for them if the boot was on the other foot i am sure ntl would do the same to many do gooders about nower days and no i dont condone what people are doing

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

There's loads on there, many say in the title that they are modded, Ntl should crack down IMO

http://search.ebay.co.uk/ntl_W0QQsalocatedincountryZ3

I couldn't believe how many there were when I finally got around to listing an Ntl remote we had left from when we had the TV with them. Shocking, and some poor (well not that poor if he's into stealing cable) guy is going to be conned into buying one!

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Ever thought that it could be NTL themselves that are selling some of the boxes? Get the cash from you for the box and then disconnect you at the green box a week or two later.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

NTL are pro-activly dealing with fraud on it's STB's. Check out modshack for a 10,000 viewed thread about how they changed one of the encryption keys for the bromley area and rendered quite a lot of boxes inoperable on the network.

You can't hold NTL responsibe for every stb that goes missing, people often move out of serviceable area's and take the boxes with them.

I'd urge anyone who knows anything about chipped boxes in their area's to contact ntl directly, much like if you saw some one stealing a car you'd report it to the police. Similar thing..

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

:Yikes: :disturbd: :Yikes: :disturbd:

I would be careful saying things like that... :erm:

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

:confused: ...but if you already have a subscribed box or broadband, you would just phone them up & they would have to reconnect you.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

There's one bloke on there selling about 10 remote controls on there in one lot and in pristine condition complete with boxes.

Methinks an engineer is on the fiddle there ... :shocked:

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

You can buy NTL STBs out of loot up here in the NW there are many for sale.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

I have tried to register for modshack but never recieve the registration email. Maybe they are not letting people register? Too scared?

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

There are actually only a few people claiming to sell chipped boxes and a few more offering a filter that they claim stops the return path of the box and so allows the watching of PPV events without paying.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

who would buy an ntl broadband instalation disc ? LOL!

But yes, they need to be stopped. Half the problem though, is ntl never bothering to pick the boxes up after someones cancelled...

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

NTL (And Telewest) have been ludicrously incompetent on this - maybe you'd report someone stealing a car, but if you saw someone leave their car overnight in Brixton with the door open and keys in, and it got stolen, you'd hardly have much sympathy...

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

I have learnt that the chipped boxes go off line when ntl change the encryption keys. They do this about every 6 months. So all the people with chipped boxes have to pay to get them redone/ or for a new card.

"Why don't they do it weekly/monthly" did I hear you ask? That would stop all the piracy you say? Yes it would, problem is the software on the Pace boxes is sooo sh**e that half the genuine boxes switch off aswell

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Mind you, Telewest seem to be better on the box front that ntl. I searched for some Telewest boxes yesterday (out of pure investigation and curiousity, mind :D ) and although there were a few on there, there were not as many as ntl.

Unless there is an underground market for hacked TW boxes in the local rag that is ... :erm:

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

Maybe they've tightened up - I know someone who used to work in TW stores - back then, engineers could just request as many STBs as they wanted with no tie-up to customer orders. Big police operation after they figured out this was not a very good idea, and several engineers busted.

Re: NTL customers breaking the law
 

My Uncle had a chipped analogue ntl STB. Think it cost him £100. He got all the channels, but it broke after a couple of weeks and the fella who sold him it was nowhere to be found :)

I've had ntl for about 4 years myself and pay a ridiculous amount of money to them. On average about £110 a month, got movies and sport, 600k and an extra 2 boxes. I can see why folk would want to get a chipped box. Thing that annoys me is that I can't just buy the channels I watch. I've gotta buy a 100 channels I'm not interested in to get the one I watch.

Anyway, if I had a chipped box I'd lay awake at night worrying about it :) Some folk I just just don't care what they illegal stuff they do. Would be good if NTL were able to track these people as it surely impacts on the service the rest of us get.