RGB out from STB
 

Hi,

First post here, so my apologies in advance if I am in the wrong forum or posting outside the rules.

My problem seems to be that I can not get my TV to recognise the RGB output from my STB, only the RF out signal. :dozey:

My kit is this -

TV - Philips 32pw9618 - 4 Scart inputs, + Component & RF
STB - Pace Di4000-N - 2 x Scart (RGB?) out, + RF out (no separate audio out)
DVD Recorder - Panasonic DMRE55EBS - 1 x Scart out, 1 x Scart in, Component out, audio in/out
VCR - Old & clunky Bush - Scart in, Scart out, RF in & out
My rooftop aerial signal is quite poor - I have not connected it to any of the above, as I am quite happy to ignore terrestial signals for now and just go with the output from the STB.


Until yesterday, I had the following setup...

STB --> DVD Rec --> old TV all via Scart. I could view DVDs, record from the STB - all was well.

I have now changed the settings on the STB to output stereo sound, RGB and 16:9 picture (no point with my previous TV). I have rebooted since making the changes.

If I connect my STB directly to my TV via 21-pin Scart, it cannot detect a signal and shows a blue screen.

Connecting the DVD to the same Scart input with the same cable, gives me a great picture when just playing back a DVD.

Connecting the STB --> DVD --> TV via Scart only gets nothing, just a blue screen.


I have only got a picture from the STB using this horrible kludge -

STB --> 'RF signal booster' --> TV (and DVD-R and VCR and bedroom TV upstairs) - all using co-ax.
This gets me an average picture, but plainly nothing like what the TV is capable of.

I would like to use the RGB out from the STB via Scart, as below -

STB --> TV
STB --> DVDR --> DVDR --> TV
VCR --> TV

I can live with RF from STB to VCR - it will only be used to play tapes to the TV (until I have archived a few tapes to DVD - then it will likely get 'recycled' to a charity shop).

I am using new 21-pin Scart leads throughout, all tested and OK by using a direct connect from DVD to TV.
I am in an ex-C&W area (Brighton), and I get the following info from the 'status' screens of my STB...
Hardware type - Di4000-N
Hardware version - P3.213
Software version - P3.3.1.PO.CR3

I'm in the frustrating position of being a very competent user of PCs, and I thought I was OK with TV/AV issues, but I am feeling like an utter noob. :dunce:

If necessary, I can create a sketch of my kit and connections, if it will make things clearer.

Hope someone can help - I'll be happy to contribute with PCs/networking etc, probably under the broadband section. :)

P.S. Sorry about the lengthy post, but I thought it was better to include more info than less

Re: RGB out from STB - new member
 

:welcome:

Hardware type - Di4000-N
Hardware version - P3.213
Software version - P3.3.1.PO.CR3

It may be that this box does not output RGB, but Composite and SVideo only. Proppin or another STB guru will be in a good place to answer this when they next visit.

Re: RGB out from STB - new member
 

Welcome to the site .... I KNOW that there will be some extremely knowledgeable ppl coming soon ;)

Re: RGB out from STB - new member
 

:welcome: to Cable Forum, jzpop. As others have said, I'm sure an expert will be along shortly ... however, just to throw in my own 2p, so far as I remember (and I'm not at home to check at the mo) my STB is set to 'composite' rather than RGB. It is connected via Scart to a 16:9 stereo TV. Have you tried using the 'composite' rather than RGB setting?

Re: RGB out from STB - new member
 

Wow! That was quick :)

Sorry if I caused the confusion in my opening post.

When I first connected the STB to the new TV, I forgot about the changes that could be made in the STB. Therefore, it was originally connected with 'composite', 'mono' and '4:3' as the STB settings - and it didn't work then, either :(

It was after half an hour of faffing about that I remembered the STB settings could be changed - so unless the on-screen options are giving me choices that the hardware/software does not actually support...?

Re: RGB out from STB - new member
 

What choice do you get
Composite
S Video
RGB

2 of or all three?

Re: RGB out from STB - new member
 

Just composite and RGB

Re: RGB out from STB - new member
 

P.S. My software looks like the B.31, according to the Sticky 'know your software version' post

Re: RGB out from STB - new member
 

The Di4000 does have RGB output. (If it didn't, you wouldn't be able to select it in the menus).

Most TVs only support RGB on the first SCART - but I don't think that's your problem 'coz it sounds like composite via SCART isn't working for you either.

Some things to try:
- Can you record from STB to DVDR?
- Try connecting the STB's VCR SCART socket to the TV.

But I think at the end of the day, the STB is probably broken and you'll need to call ntl.

Re: RGB out from STB - new member
 

Progress at last!


Firstly, many thanks for all of your help and contributions :)

I was just getting myself in a mess and going in ever-decreasing circles before - stopping to explain the problems, and seeing the feedback from yourselves, was incredibly useful.

I switched a scart lead from the NTL 'video out' socket to the TV, and for the first time, saw an RGB output from the STB :shocked:

I undid all the cables, tuned the TV to the very poor rooftop aerial RF feed, and started again with the scarts. Bottom line is, one of the scart leads that I had convinced myself I had tested was bad.:mad:

I now have the following -

STB (TV) -- TV
STB (Video) --> DVD-R --> TV
VCR -- TV
All of the above via 21-pin scart

I also have the RF out from the STB feeding into an RF amplifier, and the RF back to the VCR, DVD-R and an upstairs TV.

I have one remaining issue though - please advise if it is appropriate to continue this thread, or start a new one...

As stated above, the 'video' scart out from the STB goes to my Panasonic DVD-R (DMRE55EBS). It comes into the DVD-R via Ext2. When I setup the Ext2 via the setup menu, if I choose RGB as the signal input, I get sound but no picture (just black screen). If I change it to composite video, as the expected incoming signal type, I get picture and sound. The same is true if I feed the 'TV' out from the STB into the Ext2 of the DVD-R. The TV indicates that I am feeding an RGB signal from both STB outputs, if I do a direct connect to the TV.

This indicates to me that the NTL box is either not outputting 'standard' RGB (?) or that there is some incompatability between my particular model of STB and DVD-R.

Anyone else experienced this, or have any comments? Is there an easy fix, or do I have to approach NTL for a different model STB?

Anyway, I am much happier than I was before ... I just need to find a way of feeding RGB instead of component video to my Panny :confused:

Re: RGB out from STB
 

Glad you're getting there. :)

As far as I am aware, the Di4000 has standard RGB connections on both SCARTs. Does your DVD's manual give the pinout for the Ext2 socket? If so, please post it here.

Re: RGB out from STB
 

Sorry, no pinout diagram in the manual. The E55 manual does not yet appear on the Panasonic (UK) website, but as far as I can tell, the very limited info about the Ext2 socket is exactly the same on the downloadable E50 manual and in the printed E55 manual.

There is a Japanese version of the E55 manual. I am not too hot on the translation side of things, but I did not see any pinout pics on the Japanese manual either :(

Re: RGB out from STB
 

Have you checked your SCART leads are fully connected? I'm wondering whether you are actually using composite all the time. To check this, connect the TV direct to the STB, and toggle the STB's setting between composite and RGB. You should see the picture "change" (usually you get sharper edges but less vivid colours on RGB). If not, you are only getting composite and should look for new leads.

I was browsing the Panny website and found this...
http://www.support.panasonic.co.uk/s...aflet3-new.pdf

Does it help? (Probably not, but I thought it was interesting that they considered it worthwhile producing a supplement. It suggests you're not the first to have this problem. You could try asking them).

Re: RGB out from STB
 

Spiderplant,

Thanks for your continued interest and advice.

I have 4 scarts on my TV (2 RGB-enabled). The scart from my STB to my TV is clearly sending RGB (confirmed via TV info message). If I toggle the display on the TV between the scarts from my STB and my DVD, I can clearly see a difference. The DVD is outputting RGB, but only receiving composite :(

Thanks for the Panasonic pdf supplement - that info is now incorporated into the E50 and E55 manuals.

I have left an email with Panasonic - waiting for a reply.

I phoned NTL CS tonight - after the usual 35 minute delay, getting put through to broadband tech support (for a TV issue), I finally got through to TV 'tech support'.

I won't bore you with all the details, but it went something like this..

Me - I can get RGB out from the TV scart, but apparently not on the VCR out - can you help?

NTL - (After much discussion between staff members) We don't think the Pace 4000 outputs RGB

Me - But it is on one scart, not the other - is this by design or is it a fault?

NTL - You have a picture, therefore there is no fault - an engineer visit will cost £50 to confirm this

Me - But it is a fuzzy picture, not a sharp one

NTL - If you have a recognisable picture, that's it

Me - Speechless

Complaint on it's way :mad:

Was life designed to be so hard - and if so, by whom?

Anyway, rant over, thanks again for your help - I will see what NTL and Panasonic have to say.

Surely they won't blame each others kit - will they? :Yikes:

Re: RGB out from STB
 

For the record I don't think we do output RGB from the VCR scart output. Only from the TV out.

I can do a quick check when I finally get hold of a CR3 box with RGB out, as I only have an S video one at the moment.

Re: RGB out from STB
 

Methinks this could all be tied up with Macrovision issues.

Edit

BTW, your set-up sounds much like Peck's. Have you seen this thread?

Re: RGB out from STB
 

Hi Jzpop....I've got exactly the same set up as you (minus the VCR), and on my DVD Recorder setup screen under AV2 Settings mine is set as;

AV2 Input: RGB
AV2 Connection: Normal
Ext Link: Ext Link 1

Try checking your settings match these. I had issues initially, but a bit of tinkering sorted that. BTW, you don't really need both SCART outputs from the stb, the recorder has a pass through, so all you need is;

STB (use main SCART)>DVD Recorder>TV

That should give you your RGB signal, and the signal will go through as normal when you switch the recorder off. Also frees up that other output!

Re: RGB out from STB
 

Macrovision is present on the composite connection (which RGB uses for syncs).

Re: RGB out from STB
 

What I should have said was, I suspect that Macrovision cannot be applied to RGB signals therefore these are not 'allowed' on outputs used for recording.

Re: RGB out from STB
 

Proppinupthebar - many thanks, I will wait for your testing and reply.

Alanmelon - so it should work, then?

For the record, I have tried the AV2 input on the E55 with both RGB and Video (and S-video in desperation!).

With each of the above, I have tried setting as both decoder and normal, and the Ext Link setting as both 1 and 2.

If yours works, then I am even more confident that I have a duff STB.

Thanks again to all for your time and valuable input :)

Re: RGB out from STB
 

I see what you're saying, Macrovision is applied to the timing and black levels so that recordings cannot be made as the recorders AGC's get messed up. RGB signals contain no timing info and hence aren't protected as such. But all doemestic RGB stuff I've ever seen uses the composite connection for syncs and therefore gets Macrovision protection.
Some monitors use syncs on green or seperate syncs, but I don't know of any kit which provides them, STB's don't.

Re: RGB out from STB
 

My set up works perfectly as follows;

Recorder settings as above

RGB Output enabled on stb

SCART 1 from stb to DMRE55>television

SCART 2 > Audio breakout > Home Cinema Amp (but you could use it for whatever)

Have you set AV1 output in the recorder settings to RGB, and the TV aspect to match that of your stb output (16:9), oh not forgetting your TV set up to RGB on the AV input channel from the DVD recorder.

Re: RGB out from STB
 

All STBs are composite only on the VCR scart. I think this is because many videos (like TVs) will automatically switch to an RGB source if one is detected, regardless of the switching signal that is being used. Clearly this isn't good if someone is looking to record from terrestrial. Also, it makes no difference in quality on VCR whether you're recording from RGB or composite -- and I'm sure no-one thought abotu DVD recorders when these STBs were designed....

Re: RGB out from STB
 

Thanks again to you all for your input.

Alanmelon - I have now swapped the outputs from my STB, so that the scart from the VCR socket (on the STB) goes to the TV. My TV clearly signals this as a CVBS (composite video) signal.

The scart output on the STB marked TV now goes to the E55, and on to the TV. Success! I can now record to DVD using an RGB signal :)

Perhaps I am asking too much here, but I would still like a definitive answer to the question about whether the Pace Di4000-N is designed to give an RGB output from both scarts. Why? Because I quite often like to be watching a DVD, and use the dual-screen or PiP function of the TV to monitor the NTL TV signal. An example might be watching a DVD of last night's football, while seeing if they have kicked off at tonight's game yet (or my wife might want to watch the lottery results live while I keep watching the footie on DVD).

If I see that I want to watch the NTL broadcast, I was hoping to pause the DVD, switch to the scart that goes direct from STB to TV, and keep watching - but at the moment, that picture will only be composite :(

Perhaps I am wanting too much from NTL.

Of course, none of this was an issue with my cheap supermarket TV and VCR, but after spending £900 for the TV and £220 for the DVD-R, I would like to be able to use them to their full capability.

Just to recap, for anyone else with the same kit who has similar problems, I now have

STB --> TV (composite via TV out from STB)
STB --> E55 --> TV (RGB via VCR out from STB)
VCR --> TV

The AV2/Ext2 setting for the Panasonic DMRE55 is as follows -

Input- RGB
Connection - Decoder (but Normal works equally well)
Ext Link - Ext Link 1 (but Ext Link 2 works equally well)

Tristan - I see your logic, and it makes perfect sense .... but are you speculating, or speaking from certain knowledge? I simply don't know whether the STB should be sending RGB from both scarts, or was designed to send RGB via the VCR, and RGB via the TV. If it is designed to do this, do NTL supply a different model that outputs RGB on both?

If you are right (I have no reason do doubt you, as I don't know the first thing about STBs), I can see this becoming more of an issue as multi-scart TVs and DVD-Rs become more widespread. For instance, I presume I could split the single RGB out from the STB to two separate scarts on the TV (2 of the 4 TV scarts are RGB-enabled) - but one of the reasons for buying this TV was because the number of scarts should reduce or eliminate the need for splitters, with the cost and problems that they can bring.

Thanks once more to you all for your thoughts, suggestions, opinions and most of all, your time.

Re: RGB out from STB
 

Quick correction to my post above (I think I have caused enough confusion already :) )

STB --> TV (composite via VCR out from STB)
STB --> E55 --> TV (RGB via TV out from STB)
VCR --> TV

I can't seem to see the 'edit' button for my post above.

Re: RGB out from STB
 

Re: RGB out from STB
 

I'll just add that my Sky and DTT boxes (I'm not in a ntl cabled area) only output composite on the VCR output.

Re: RGB out from STB
 

You have the same problem as me. You must have the di4001 box, makes screen go blue.

Re: RGB out from STB
 

Same problem as who?
There have been 5 versions of the DI4001 box.

As I've said it doesn't look like any STB's output RGB from their VCR SCART output.