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NTL price increase and their reasons
Okay the price increase came into effect from today, 1st June, yet still no speed increase.
After a bit of searching i found the letter regarding the price increase and there reasons behind it. It was to keep inline with the competition, yet for some reason NTL in there infinite wisdom compared their service, a cable based BB service with 2 of bt's ADSL services, namely BT yahoo and BT Broadband. Why did they ignore the only other Cable based BB available, name Telewest. Indeed BT BB is more expensive than NTL and Telewest. But its not the same service, its ADSL not cable . Lets compare at todays price and speed, NTL with another cable BB service, Telewest. Telewest's 1.5MB bb connection is £35 yet NTL's 1mb bb connection is £38. Okay so the speed is allegedly going to be 1.5mb, but when ? NTL say summer... lol, good going NTL, you know when its forcast so why not tell us or better still why not put the price up when its released? k so at the minute we are paying £3 more for 50% less on our connection. Yet NTL have told us how the price increase was neccessary to keep in line with the competition. So why put the price way beyond the direct competition. Okay then, if they insist on comparing with ADSL (a differnt service all together) then lets compare. Yes BT is the most expensive, but if u shop around, because u can with adsl, u'll find an equal service being offered, at the 1mbit barrier for £30 (eg: aol). So NTL are £8 dearer for the same 1mbit service. So to price inline with the competition NTL should infact decrease their prices to £30 for 1mbit, oh and if u insist put it back to £35 inline with the competition (Telewest) once the 1.5mbit comes into effect. NTL we are not fools, if u want to compare prices then do so properly, dont compare your service with the most expensive u can find. You aint fooling anyone other than urselves. |
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There's some well made points in there, but let's not forget that the price increase has nothing to do with the speed increase-it was only done as a knee jerk reaction to TW raising their speeds-ntl announced it, & thought about it afterwards. :rolleyes:
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Incidently, with cable based 1.5mb being offered for £35 by telewest and with aol offering 1mb adsl some £8-11 cheaper than BT's broadband and BTyahoo, im pretty sure other adsl companies will be forced into reducing their prices, which will leave NTL HIGH and dry :) Still way off the mark for the rest of europe and probably the world. I have a friend in Canada who pays the equivalent of £50 for a 5mbit service... makes me sick :rolleyes: |
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they didnt compare themselves with Telewest because they compete with ADSL not other cable companies. ie. where you can get cable, you will not find another cable supplier.
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So a rise of £8 more than the same 1mbit by aol's adsl is competing ?
Lets face it most adsl companies are now going to have to look at dropping their prices in response to telewest, the true market leaders for BB in the uk. |
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Canadians could consider themselves ripped off as a number of Japanese can take 100Mbit in both directions for the same price they pay for 10Mbit... |
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If it was the case (as you appear to be suggesting) that it was in fact ntl that decided to increase the downstream speed for no additional cost, & it was TW that copied them.... How on earth did Telewest manage to get it rolled out successfully & efficiently to all their customers, & 2 weeks ahead of schedule, & ntl have not even started yet? I'll tell you why-ntl were caught napping by TW's decision & paniced to match their offer. The reason TW got it rolled out so quickly was that they had clearly planned for it & ntl had not. :angel: [Edit]-If you are indeed suggesting (as I think you are) that it was in fact Telewest that copied ntl's idea of giving customer's a free downstream speed increase, then you have confirmed ntl to be the biggest, most incompetant bunch of monkeys around! If TW copied ntl, & got their rollout done so quick, & all ntl can say is 'late summer', how stupid are ntl? :nono: Not even ntl could feck something up of this proportion (could they......?) :erm: |
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Now lets have the NTL view Q justanothernoob:angel:
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As far as proof goes, could tell you but then I'd have to kill you :angel: Believe what you want to, no skin off my schnozz + not debating it as in return for nicer treatment of associate types promised I wouldn't :angel: Upgrade time, not being hasty, around the world ISPs have upgraded speeds for free, UK is now following, just wait a while (though being with Pipex now you won't get any upgrade for free from BT :p ) and when it comes enjoy. There are various reasons why it can't be done yet. I wonder how all those Telewest STB customers who didn't get the upgrade because their STB couldn't support it felt? Wonder how the custs who can't achieve the upgraded speed, or are achieving lower than previous speed are doing. Amusing part is that if it had been the other way around Telewest would be being praised for waiting until all is ready, ntl would be accused of rushing. It'll come when everything else is ready - remember ntl have twice the customers Telewest do, and amalgamate more companies, there are various issues that make this simpler for TW, and it's not entirely a success story... My contribution to this thread now over! :angel: |
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So..... I'll ask again...:angel: If TW's increase was the knee jerk reaction after they got wind of ntl's plans, how did TW get theirs all done, & ntl customers are still waiting??? |
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:notopic: wasn't this thread started about the price increase, not the speed increases and finding yet another reason to criticise ntl? I have had little to add to this topic as i believe the issues being discussed have been done to death. :zzz: |
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There are probably a couple of possible reasons why the speed increases were announced at the same time by TW and NTL.
I would imagine that both companies know fairly well in advance what the other is going to do, from information gained by fair means or foul. TW having a less complex structure could gain an agvantage over NTL if they so wished. With all the talk of an imminent merger of the two companies it makes sense for them to be offering roughly the same products prior to the merger. Does it really matter who was first as long as customers get an improved service at the end of the day. What you have to realise is that NTL (and all companies) have to juggle product enhancements and pricing in order not to just remain competitive but also to maximise revenue. This can mean that sometimes pricing may not appear competitive but the higher price being charged would generate more revenue even after allowing for customers leaving because of the price than a lower price would generate with no churn. |
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After all as you have stated they clearly arent bringing it inline with ADSL which is getting cheaper and cheaper so this to me does seem like the only viable reason. |
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NTL compete with BT, AOL etc (all ADSL broadband), and as such, they were cheaper for the 1M service than their competitors. NTL dropped the price from 50 to 35, the others did not drop as low as NTL, so they can afford to up the price and still be competetive. That is not to say those of us currently on the 1M service are not understandably peeved that the price is going up, when the general trend is down, just that from a purely business viewpoint, NTL can get £3 per moth more from N customers, without losing the ability to draw in more. Yes, they may well lose customers to the 600k tier (especially when it goes to 750), but from NTLs point of view, that is not a huge problem, as this will free up some bandwidth for others.. As always - Just my 2c :angel: |
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i just think NTL is camparing their price to BTs
as BT is the main broadband supplier |
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Not only that, but there are no caps/"guidelines" in place, & no 12 month contract. :tu: http://www.cpbb.co.uk/index.htm |
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I would imagine NTL could fairly easily write a program that searches their database of customers and fairly accurately identifies what xDSL service each customer may be able to get. That would give them an indication of possible loss of customers to xDSL on each service level and the degree of competitaveness (is that a word?) required.
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:D |
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Do remember that Bulldog is only 512 during the day, and 2M off peak. :angel: |
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However I think people posted on this thread are looking too much at cost. Simply because you pay less doesnt mean your anywhere near likely to get 'that' level of service. We'll take CP as an example - they're a datastream provider and as such can not provide pings less than 50 - a major downfall for competitive gamers. So I expect someone to tell me - they're not a gamer, they dont worry about pings. Ok fair point, but dont for one minute expect to get your full 2mbps download rates consistently, datastream is well known for its contention at a local level, so instead of 15,000 users contending on 1 155mbps pipe, you end up contending with 50 people on 2mbps with only 1 1mbps pipe. Same contention ratio, however the odds of you actually experiencing contention just went up 100 fold. Something everyone on any forum discussing broadband or any product should bare in mind is that you pay for what you get, bar a few companies who are extortionate for the services they provide you must find a balance between the amount of money you pay and the service levels you receive. NTL generally is quite good at that (in its areas that dont suffer from major contention on upstreams and the alike) I would just like to point out that ADSL is not the holy grail people make it out to be. Just because some of the providers are cheaper - it most certainly does not mean they're worth signing up for - not if you expect to see a decent service. ADSL is a great deal harder to understand as there are also so many variants of it: IPstream, Datastream, LLU, etc. All of which operate at different levels. Oh and at risk of offending you Neil, I do have to point out Pipex's mail servers are probably just as reliable (or not in this case) as NTL's). Sorry, but it is within the theme of my post, and the original topic :) |
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ADSL broadband is more like mobile phone companies, and their various forms of tarriffs reflecting what kind of service you want, what kind of additional services you want applied to your connection, and how fast you want it to go. This can make it very confusing. |
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For all NTLs faults (and they do have a few :naughty: ) they do provide a reasonable level of availability, and a reasonable speed (I tend to get 1M out of my service most of the time) in the majority of cases. They may not be the cheapest, but in terms of what you get, they are still competative in the market. They have always looked at BT as their main competitor, and this is probably valid, as other ISPs have to pay BT for the line usage. NTL <probably> don't care about AOL, as they offer BB over NTLs cables, and I'm sure NTL get a nice payment for it, without the hassle of supporting it or supplying the kit. As always - just my 2c (and no - I do not think NTL are perfect - far from it, they are just not any worse than most other ISPs I have come across) |
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I have had one issue with my Pipex mail in the 8 months I have had it. My PC is on 24/7, & Outlook stays open, so it is constantly polling the mail server. Like I said-1 issue (which was dealt with quickly, professionaly, & efficiently I might add) is no bad thing. We worked out a while ago, using ntl's Server Status Page over the last year, that they had announced a mail problem once a week for the previous 12 months...... Not so with Pipex I'm afraid-their mail servers have not been the subject of write ups on The Register et all. ;) |
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wrong - the primetime service is not comparable with NTL as it is much cheaper!!! primetime 1mb - £30 a month primetime 2mb - £35 I was comparing NTL to the AllTime service which is £33 for 1mb or £38 a month for 2mb. That's why I say bulldog ADSL gives you 2mb for the same price as NTL's 1mb service. |
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I will NOT pay anymore for my 1MB service. Why pay more for what I already have? I have so far had no news of this increase other than a little mention on there homepage which I hardly ever look at.
Unless I get the faster speeds to go with the increase in price I will cancell my contract with them then and there. For the same price as the proposed price increase you can get an UNCAPPED 2MB line from plusnet. And if you do not mind some restrictions the price can drop as low as £31 for it. I will have no hesitations in leaving as I am sure many others will do the same, I know 3-4 Of my friends will do the same. It is a shame NTL feel the need to do the things they are doing? MMMmm oh well there loss I suppose.......... http://www.plus.net/products/broadband_home.html Worth going for eh? |
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worth going for provided your ADSL line is able to support 1mb or 2mb - check using the BT ADSL checker to make sure you are close enough to the exchange.
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Total for 12 months: £456 Plusnet 1MB USB modem @ £44.99 Activation @ £58.75 1 or 12 month contracts (if 1 month activation = £70.90) Regrade costs: £11.75 per tier change Cost per month: £30 Total for 12 months: £475.49 NTL 1mbps (soon to be free regrade to 1.5mbps) Free installation Free Modem 12 month min contract Free regrades (Through 150kbps, 600kbps and 1mbps) Cost per Month: £38 by DD Total for 12 months: £456 (NB: 1.5mbps soon.) I have already looked at this, and although I'm basing it on 1mbps speeds, I would guess the 2mbps to be very similar. I dont really need 2mbps, but would gladly have it if it was reasonably priced. |
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If you decided on their 2MB line the LOWEST cap here is 4GB which is 4 times that of NTL and 500K quicker than the proposed 1.5MB of NTL. The price for this is only £31.99 which kinda balances out the cost of modem/activation. Oh and you can buy your own modem anyway and save even more!! |
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NTL 12 months contract - oh and capped to sommat silly.. 1gb 37.99 per month for 1MB (not 1.5 atm and not for the forseeable future) free connection/modem = 455.88 Plus net 12 months contract - 4gb limit 31.99 per month for 2MB (real 2MB, not soon to be 2MB) connection - £58.75 modem - 44.99 = 497.62 30 quid per yr for double the service... oh okay if u insist 30 quid per yr for double the service until ntl pull their fingers out, then its still 500k faster. So 30 quid per yr for an extra 500k connection - bargain. Oh and u can get an adsl internal modem for £20... |
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Just looked again and plusnets bandwidth restrictions are per month I think. (they do not make this to clear). So you would have to go for the PREMIERE pack to get unlimited bandwidth which makes it a little more expensive but still better in the long run me thinks.
Think I may well be moving in the future unless this upgrade comes soon. I have had no letter about the 1GB limit yet so I guess there is no "degredation" in my area just yet so the cap does not bother me at the moment. I already exceed this limit practically ever day. |
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Sorry, but you are wrong regarding the bandwidth limit. [EDIT: Ah, I've just noticed that you realised this with your next post in the thread] NTL's bandwidth limit is 1 GB per day, which is roughly equal to 30GB per month. PlusNet's bandwidth limits are monthly http://www.plus.net/products/broadband_home.html The £23.99 1Mb package comes with only 2 GB of bandwidth per month Quote:
The £31.99 2Mb package comes with only 4 GB of bandwidth per month Quote:
Makes NTL's "cap" look quite generous now, doesn't it? ;) Quote:
PlusNet limit: e.g. 2GB per MONTH on the 1Mb service, or 4GB per MONTH on the 2Mb service (see above part of my post) Quote:
e.g. pick the 1Mb service, & select the basic bandwidth - it will tell you: Quote:
But, yes, the "Premiere" option, although 6-8 quid extra, does make it quite good value. |
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Still though to have a faster service and completely UNCAPPED plusnet i think is still the better choice. Unless NTL up their speed pretty quickly!! Maybe they will surprise us all? Upload speed is what I want an increase in mostly. All i.s.p's seem to offer no more than 256kb/s which is CRAP. Any idea on timescale for faster speeds? They were quick enough to up the price!! Now where is the promised speed!!! |
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£39.99 for a 2Mb service with unlimited bandwidth is very good. Better than £37.99 for a 1Mb ("soon" to be 1.5Mb) service with a ~30GB "limit". Quote:
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I'd love a higher upload. I'd prefer a higher upload to a higher download (although I'll still appreciate the 1Mb>1.5Mb increase) Quote:
All I have heard, is the official (& vague) "late summer" timescale. Quote:
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With speeeds available on xDSL you have to remember that line distance from the exchange affects the level of service that you can get and that not all exchanges supply all the service levels advertised. Line quality also affects your ability to obtain xDSL so you can live within a line distance that should support your requirements but line quality can mean you are unable to get that service. Also, what is not very often mentioned is that xDSL upload speeds degrade rapidly with line distance from the exchange. |
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One point though, in the total amount of the peopl who have ADSL, only a small percentage suffer from upstream rate adaption (i.e.: less than 256kbps) and the percentage is around the 0.1% mark possibly less. Its definitely no hgiher than 1/1000. |
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bulldog 2mb
activation £1 monthly cost £38 usb modem £40 cost in 1st year £1+12*à ƒÆ’ƒâ€šÃ‚£38+à ƒâ€šÃ‚£40 = £509 NTL is 12 * £38 = £456 for a 1mb to 1.5mb service |
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basically, lots of cheaper alternatives to NTL out there -so no reason for me to stay...
Incidently, have now gone 2 weeks without the channels on my digi tv that im payin for, had an engineer out a week ago - who installed a new box, then phoned faults up to say the channels were still not there (weds) and still not got em. So thats being cancelled too.... although going off experiences from friends, ntl wont let u cancel - it took my friend 3 months for them to realise he no longer wanted his bb - infact when he left the house, it was still active, despite 3 months earlier cancelling the direct debit and having written confirmation off ntl saying that his bb was cancelled.... weirdos... left hand and right hand not speaking again.... |
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