Ntl recordable stb - a possibility ?
 

Have read this on digital spy great new for ntl customers: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds14399.html

ntl and set-top-box middleware provider Liberate have signed a new long-term licensing deal.

The new agreement will see Liberate continuing to provide its TV Navigator middleware for use in ntl's digital cable set-top-boxes.

"We are pleased to renew our commitment to Liberate," said ntl's Director of TV, David Thatcherson. "With Liberate, we are positioned to effectively compete with satellite in multiple services across multiple platforms."

The middleware provides software support for interactive services, an interactive EPG, and digital video recorder (DVR) capabilities. ntl does not use the DVR functionality at this time.

"We are excited that ntl, the UK leader in digital cable services, has selected our technology platform," said David Lockwood, Chairman and CEO of Liberate. "The partnership between ntl and Liberate is an important step in our drive to establish Liberate as the leader in software for digital cable systems."

Re: Ntl finally to get recordable stb
 

Well it's nice to see that ntl are at least considering an answer to Sky+. Well overdue in my book. In fact I wonder how many customers are being lost from ntl digi TV to Sky +? I for one would be very interested in a workable, cost efective solution, as Sky + looks more and more atractive to me any day (and if I go down that route ntl loose me for BB and phone too, and I doubt I'm the only one thinking like that).

The big problem is how long would this take. Another "coming soon" I fear.

Re: Ntl finally to get recordable stb
 

I dont see anywhere in that press release where they say they are considering an answer to sky +.

Re: Ntl finally to get recordable stb
 

So where does it say they are going to do a DVR ?

Re: Ntl finally to get recordable stb
 

this thread title is extremely misinforming/misleading.

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It is one thing to have middleware with DVR functionality and another to have the facility available to customers.

Two things that immediately spring to mind are the STBs and the EPG.

How would NTL customers react if they had to buy the STB with DVR functionality and what would the cost be? I would presume that there would not be sufficient cash in NTLs coffers to provide these boxes free.

Can you imagine trying to record programs with only a three day EPG available.

I would imagine that DVR functionality will not be available to NTL customers until after any merger with Telewest and after all parts of the new company are running the same software.

Re: Ntl finally to get recordable stb
 

They should have changes software suppliers, the Liberate stuff has been nothing but trouble since they started DTV. Just look how far advanced Sky's platform is compared with NTLs!

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Ok, so I got sucked in by the title of the thread without reading the linked article :dunce:

I recall being told the EPG was only three days long as the STBs couldn't handle more data.

Any DVR facility needs to have at least a fortnight ahead. So while ntl need to keep the existing STBs going there is a major problem, and I can't see them wanting to replace those for nothing. However the 3 day EPG now is already a problem as today you can't set you VCR to record stuff for the weekend, autoswitching the STB channel, and that is pants when VCRs for years have had 28 days ahead programming.

So ntl are not committing to a Sky+ equivalent. If I recall correctly, Sky+ costs more than standard Sky. Surely ntl could do the same?

Re: Ntl recordable stb - a possibility ?
 

Thread title changed as it was clearly misleading.

Re: Ntl recordable stb - a possibility ?
 

:tu:

Re: Ntl finally to get recordable stb
 

the Main 5 Channels only have to provide lisiting for a week ahead - other channels the min is a month.

Not sure if this is still the case.

Re: Ntl finally to get recordable stb
 

We had a thread on this not so long ago. I personally think it is unlikely that ntl will go for any kind of Sky+ equivalent in the forseeable future. The cost of getting this service from Sky is the clue - Sky needs to charge a certain amount for Sky+ in order to cover development cost and move towards profit, but Sky's potential subscriber base is always going to be much bigger than ntl's, so they can afford to charge less per unit. Ntl would always have to charge a lot more, rendering itself uncompetitive. Perhaps a merger with Telewest would make the proposition more attractive though.

Re: Ntl recordable stb - a possibility ?
 

As we know, ntl don't seem to react that well to meeting public demand for services. The danger is that customers will leave to seek suppliers that can meet that expectation. Sky+ may not be the "must have" technology of today, but next year it could be, especially with Skys heavy promotion of it.

Cable should have been the better technology, with permanent high speed two way connections. Unfortunately recordable STBs, is just another example of how the technology has been poorly implemented with so many incompatibilities, between different networks. Rahter than creating greater economies if there is a merger with Telewest, I fear further incompatibilities and even less standardisation would become apparent.

The problem for ntl, but also faced perhaps to a slightly lesser extent by Sky, is the funds available for investment to keep up with technology developments. Customer expectations will increase. 15 years ago we just had cable TV or analogue Sky as ground breaking stuff. By 5 years ago Digital TV was making waves. Now we see it's Sky+ recordable technology.

As with broadband pricing and speeds, ntl may not have the money to invest to remain competetive, but if they cannot invest they fall behind and see loss of market share and revenue. A vicious circle to which I doubt ntl have a practical answer.

Re: Ntl recordable stb - a possibility ?
 

I have to say that although I have zero problems with my TV service from ntl, if I wasn't in an apartment block I would have got Sky+ a long time ago. Even if ntl didn't incorporate hdd recording, with the number of channels available today a dual-tuner is a must have. All I can say is thank god for the various +1 channels and Sky One Mix!

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The main channels provide 14 days worth of data - but last minute changes can always happen. The Satellite channels often provide 1 or 2 months of advanced listings. :D (see the sig ;))

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The funny thing is, with all the hoo-hah over the 'digital revolution' and what a great thing it is, the industry at large seems to have got away with the most obvious failing of all - the simple ability to watch one channel and record another, which we all got used to in the 80s and 90s as we all came to have our own video recorders.

TBH, all I want is a VCR with an integrated, digital tuner so I can record one thing and watch another. I'm still not entirely sure why this, presumably simplest of problems (take the analogue tuner out, put a digital one in?) seems beyond the wit of the Sonys and Panasonics of this world. :(

Re: Ntl recordable stb - a possibility ?
 

a video with an integrated digital decoder is probably not that viable because there isnt one common digital decoder (AFAIK). I would imagine that you might start to get ones with freeview / DTT decoders in, but I would find it more likely that you get PVRs with DTT decoders in ( actually you can already, Pace do one called 'Twin View' HDD and 2 decoders )

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An ntl DVR system would be a separate service to the standard DTV system. Therefore, the STBs would be built with a lot more memory, allowing for a larger guide to be stored. Existing STBs would simply ignore the extra data.

Re: Ntl finally to get recordable stb
 

Yes, I thought about that just after I posted but I am unsure of just how NTL transmit the data to the STB and what effect this extra transmission would have on service.

Sky appear to update their EPG on a continual basis throughout the day based on recordings on Sky+ being made correctly even when a news break happened just before the program was due to originally screen. NTL only appear to update once a day.

The big question is how does the customer pay for a cable PVR service? NTL customers are used to getting free STBs but can they give free PVRs? Either you will have to buy the NTL PVR or pay increased monthly subscriptions for the service given that it has been said on here that NTL hardly make anything out of Digital TV.

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I don't see a problem with customers paying more for the recordable service. Effectively for Sky + you do that now £200 ish for an install, compared to the almost free install offers for standard Sky. Ntl could either charge more per month or have a higher install cost to pay for the recordable box.

Re: Ntl recordable stb - a possibility ?
 

Could never wait for NTL too act with this PVR in their stb's. So I've got a Philips DVDR80 (DVD Recorder).

Re: Ntl recordable stb - a possibility ?
 

http://twcny.com/cable/DVR/index.cfm?ThankYou=One

A $10 monthly fee in the US. So £10 over here, same as the sky+ fee.

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Don't know if this news is of any interest to anyone. It's from the start of this month 4th May if I recall.

Quote:

Liberate Technologies, a formerly high-flying maker of software for set-top boxes, announced late Friday that it has filed for reorganization under U.S. bankruptcy laws. Liberate plans to file for a voluntary Chapter 11 reorganization in U.S. District Court in order to resolve some of its liabilities and strengthen its financial position, the company said. Liberate currently has $222.3 million in cash and short-term investments, and $21.7 million in current liabilities. "The management team has been working on a turnaround of Liberate for about a year now. But we still have significant obligations and exposure we're trying to get out from under," said Greg Wood, Liberate's chief financial officer. The company has, for example, $46 million in lease obligations through 2010 for a vacant building in San Carlos, Calif. But through bankruptcy laws, Liberate would have to pay only 12 months worth of rent, or 15 percent of the remaining balance on the lease. "We also inherited dozens of contracts when we invested in the company that are not consistent with our current direction," Wood said. During the past year, a new management team stepped into place, with the company's second-largest investor, David Lockwood, filling the chief executive post. Wood was also part of that new team. The company is transforming itself into a software vendor for digital cable systems. Liberate traces its pedigree to database giant Oracle. In the mid-1990s, Oracle CEO Larry Ellison created NCI to promote his vision of low-cost, networked PCs. NCI was later split into two companies: Liberate to pursue interactive TV projects; and New Internet Computer, now closed, to push networked PCs. The bankruptcy protection filing is the latest setback for the company, which has undergone an investigation into its accounting practices by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission; the above-mentioned management shake-up, relating to the SEC investigation; and a work force reduction of roughly 30 percent. Liberate anticipates emerging from bankruptcy protection within four to six months, the company said.

Re: Ntl finally to get recordable stb
 

You have got to be joking

EPG that switches off the tv sound and picture
the channels cannot be customised via a proper favourites structure
infested with the pesky red dot !

You are joking Skys platform is more advanced at trying to rip off its customers (including all the mugs buying sky+)

Re: Ntl finally to get recordable stb
 

Another expected pop at Sky by someone who hasn't got an EPG that sees more than 3 days. I actually only use the EPG to program in what I have selected to watch having first used DigiGuide to see what's on the go. Much quicker setting up recordings than a VCR. The EPG is used again when playing back recordings, again very quick and easy. Why not try Sky+ and then see what you think.

You need a favourites structure to try to find channels on NTLs haphazard numbering of them. At least with Sky there is some logic to the numbering.

Don't worry, the pesky red dot will be infesting NTL before long, it's "coming soon" and then see how your phone bill shoots up when you press it. Pressing the red button on my Sky box has never cost me a penny and it's been used a fair bit.

If buying Sky+ makes you a mug then I am very happy to be one.

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As a Tivo owner what I would really like is for NTL to do a deal with the Tivo people to get a dual tuner PVR with tivo. By using the network to update the listings (as my tivo can do via tivonet and my NTL broadband connection) you remove the cost of providing dial up lines for the data. Obviously the economics would have to work out right but now people have accepted sky+ the way they never did with tivo (unless the actually tried it) I think there is a market for it (well me anyway).

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Ian, I fail to see how using a STB that has no connection to the phone line will aftect my phone bill in any way!

It may affect my cable tv bill in the same way that ordering a front row movie does, but I can assure you my telephone bill will remain unchanged.

I also suspect that If you are going to be charged, you will be advised, just like when sky advises you about a phone call it has to make with its modem to a premium rate number (eg voting on Big brother)

Also "coming soon"... AKA Don't hold your breath :rolleyes:

Anyway both your post and mine are :notopic:

Re: Ntl recordable stb - a possibility ?
 

It's a pity you can't just pipe the digital video through the network port and record it on a PC, like the Hauppauge Dec 2000 and 3000 boxes (USB in that case). Used with Digiguide (scheduling), DVD re-writer and maybe DIVX encoder, this would be the ultimate solution to me.

Re: Ntl recordable stb - a possibility ?
 

So how much more would STBs with hard drives cost NTL if they were to use the DVR capabilities of liberate?