merger even closer??
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/s...152115,00.html

:erm:

Re: merger even closer??
 

That's what I thought when I heard the TW MD had resigned yesterday - it all points to that direction, and I notice that the new TW MD will be an acting one only.

Re: merger even closer??
 

Not heard anything

Re: merger even closer??
 

Let's be clear. ntl and Telewest will merge. "do you hear that? That Mr Anderson is the sound of inevitability"

Mr Huff stands to make a lot of money when they do.

But I do not believe it will be until 2005.

Ntl are now performing well since coming out of Chapter 11 and Telewest needs to be given time to sort itself out from its financial restructure.

They must be sure not to repeat the almighty fcuk up that was the CWC takeover.

This news does not change anything.

Re: merger even closer??
 

Yes the CEO has resigned and is carrying on as an advisor until the restructure is finished.

Re: merger even closer??
 

Hmmm.....in that case, all I need to do now is buy shares in ntl and sit back and wait :D



here's more...http://business.timesonline.co.uk/ar...007979,00.html

Re: merger even closer??
 

this should be illegal in my view

Re: merger even closer??
 

why?

Re: merger even closer??
 

because both companies are guilty of buying franchises and not cabling the areas, they shouldnt be allowed to spend money on a merger when they have contracts to honour.

Re: merger even closer??
 

When they bought the franchises they only had to cable a percentage of each franchise not all of it.

Then a few years ago the government said that they didn't have to cable any more if they didn't want to.

Why should they cable unprofitable small populated areas - which is virtually all that is left now.

When the time is right and they have the capitial I'm sure they will start up a limited build program.

Re: merger even closer??
 

Has it ever been discussed whether NTL could pole share and cable these areas above ground on the BT poles (in a similar way to mast sharing for the mobile networks). That would introduce competition in a cheaper manner.

Re: merger even closer??
 

When I was involved in building cable networks that option was sugested several times as a cost effective solution to installing hard to reach places without having to dig.

Unfortunately although cable companies have licences to dig the roads up, they do not have licences to place cables overhead. In the manner you Suggest.

Some cable companies like ntl, Energis and Surf do have trunk fibre wrapped around the earth wires on the top of the electricity pylons. This was once hailed as a cost effective way of building the network but now 10years on these installations are now fraught with problems in some areas.

Re: merger even closer??
 

Why then we would have a national cable provider and a national last mile telco provider. A duopoly, the cable can then be marketed far more coherently than at present.

Post merger effeciencies should exist, in time single billing / distribution etc. Marketing wise I think it will be a great benefit. I'm sure post merger there will be a lot of nationwide advertising for cable. If CR3 and the red button, the normally high quality of NTLs phone lines and the higher and more widely dispersed BB oportunities exist, it could be that cable will finally find its feet in the UK and fight back.

Re: merger even closer??
 

I realise its a licence issue, its the same issue that crippled the companies with the infrastructure build cost in the first place.

But if the Govt. can approve all the other changes to the licences granted then pole sharing (or did I read about running cables in sewers) might be a way to get these areas cabled at a price which enabled a positive return on investment.

Re: merger even closer??
 

I agree it would be an idea, but wouldn't really work very well for CATV, have you been to the USA and seen the state of their overhead CATV network, amps hanging in the air!

But for telephony and BB via ADSL its OK, but then why go to all the trouble of doing that when you can access ntl telephone/dial up and I think pretty soon, if not already, BB(adsl) over BT lines

Re: merger even closer??
 

As stated, the contracts only state a % of the area has to be servicable. Thing is, people complain about lack of service and demand that Technology should be upgraded, then others complain about no-cabled area branding it should be "illegal" to merge when there are unservicable areas within each franchise.
Which do you want? Unfortunatally you cannot have both, given the cash flow situation of the company. People seem to forget that ntl have $billions of debt that it both incured itself and also took on when taking over other cable companies (C&W etc) due to the original cost of cabling (and that was over 10 yrs ago). Unlike BT this money wasn't from a goverment pot and the backers will not spend another $billion?? or so which quite frankly would set the company back another 10-15 yrs!
Merger seems a clever option (and yes will make shareholders/directors alike a big payout) and, if they keep their jobs you'd have thought they would have rejected the money and insist it goes back into the company although I doubt that will happen, and us "lower" ntl employees will have to hit extended targets to make the money up.
Simple thing is though, I can't see it being a merger and looks more likey thaty ntl is trying to find cashflow from everywhere (extended targets/cost reduction exercises) to buy telewest out with the promise to give more shareholing to the banks etc in return for some cash.

That's how I feel on the matter anyway, call me cynical but it WILL happen but not for another couple of years.
I

Re: merger even closer??
 

You can't stop companies being run by greed ridden bafoons I'm afraid. ntl was guilty of nothing more than greed, mismanagement, over-ambition, lack of skill and ultimately (becuase of the previous) lack of money. None of which is, or should be, illegal.

Merging the two companies is the only way forward, because the two companies made such a mess of the system that was in existence before.

It will stimulate a little more competition, it will increase slightly their buying power (bandwidth, Sky channels, even van leasing plans) which will overall reduce the combined companies' outgoings.

This is good, becuase there is a remote possibility that some of this money saved will be used to develop the network and services - like they promised to do about five years ago.

Re: merger even closer??
 

From a tax and accounting point of view it will / has to be a merger so the benefits of merger accounting can be used.

Re: merger even closer??
 

Unprofitable areas are not the only ones left, I'm sure any employee or ex-employee in the know in other areas of the country could tell you similar to what I know about the old franchise area that I worked in.

The government only stopped pushing them to meet the targets because thyey knew it was impossible to enforce them to be met, many areas in the South Wales franchise have fibre for business and universities etc with spare capacity but have never been cabled for residential use. Some of these areas even have ducting in place around residential streets that were put in place as long ago as 1995-96 by CableTel, these areas remain untouched with a lot of wastd cash already sitting in the ground.

There are many stories of bad management when discussing network build, like the industrial unit that ntl bought in Bridgend! they had fibre running through Bridgend between Cardiff and Swansea but some bafoon bought a building that was nowhere near this fibre and totally in the wrong place for cabling the town anyway, they eventually sold the building after about 5 years, they had paid rates on it for this period and there was a big laugh locally when they couldn't find the key to let the estate agents in to view the property, as they had not set foot in the building in the five years that they had owned it. :rolleyes:

SMHarman talked about sharing poles etc, ntl aquired a lot of old overhead networks in South Wales with very good customer penetration. These people were paying lots of money for 13 or so analogue channels, and the South Wales valley areas have always been know to be where the money is for CATV services, as people tend to stay in to watch a video etc instead of having a trip to the local wine bar like they do in the cities.
ntl closed these systems including an 860MHz Broadband system, and many of them had ntl fibre trunks a reasonably close distance away. ntl then started playing around with MVDS microwave video distribution systems in South Wales, that went nowhere so they then played with wireless broadband WHAM in South Wales, we all know what happened to that one.
They then played about with a 3G distribution system that failed because the operators wanted to use ntl's systems in London and this was the area that ntl didn't want them near because the build quality is so bad, and it would be a nightmare in terms of cost and managing to pu it right.

The reason behind all the failures has been employing the wrong people and lack of cash, the cash was short long before the general public or CSA realised.

ntl have been strapped for cash for years, too much money was wasted early on and thats the bottom line. :eek:

Re: merger even closer??
 

yeah also the area's that are cabled but are not digitalised yet.

all of you who think a merger is good, you will be proven wrong as all that will happen is job losses and a lower quality service for blueyonder users.

What will be interesting is to see how they will deal with the 2mbit situation, because they will effectively start out with a situation where under the new merged company some area's will have 2mbit internet and no cap and other area's will be limited to 1mbit with cap, and I cannot see ntl changing it so we all get 2mbit with no cap.

Re: merger even closer??
 

Hmmm 2Meg :)
Gimme Gimme Gimme

I hope this happens sooner rather than later, but I also hope we dont see a deteroration in service, as im happy with it at moment (1Meg.Hertfordshire)

Re: merger even closer??
 

If ntl and Telewest do merge, then I think that ntl and Telewest should keep what they are strong at, and hand over the part in which they are weak at to the other company.

For example I would like to see ntl hand over their broadband operations over to Blueyonder, so we would get all the benefits of Blueyonder such as no cap, reliable email, upfront no-bull status page etc.

I very much doubt this will happen in practise though, it's probably all driven by profit and I think at the end of the day how much money they can make is probably going to be paramount, above everything else :rolleyes:

Re: merger even closer??
 

This suggestion makes complete sense, which is the strongest possible indication that it stands no chance of actually happening. the way jobs are carved up in a newly expanded organisation has a lot to do with favours, the old boys network and informal discussions over dinner and not a lot to do with who is necessarliy best at the job.

Re: merger even closer??
 

Re: merger even closer??
 

What I find interesting, is that Peter Savage (former MD for ntl Southern Region) is now working for Telewest (alledgedly).......

Re: merger even closer??
 

What part would Telewest hand over to ntl then? :p

Re: merger even closer??
 

Not alledgedly - fact (AFAIK)

I can only guarantee one thing "when" they merge. There will be a massive power struggle and many good people on both sides will be lost

Re: merger even closer??
 

Isn't that always the case? :(

Re: merger even closer??
 

I can foresee the whole 'Cable & Wireless' scenario coming around again. :erm:

Then there will be ex ntl/ex C & W/ex Telewest areas to deal with, probably all getting differnet services/packages. :Yikes:

Re: merger even closer??
 

Is there a lawyer in the house?

While I think we're (mostly) agreed that the merger would be a good thing, would it not mean that NTelewestL (TM Me!) would have a complete monopoly on CATV.

Surely the Monopolies & Mergers Commision would have something to say about that!:scratch:

Rorschach.

Re: merger even closer??
 

And the crap left behind who want a free ride no doubt...

Re: merger even closer??
 

Thing is don't BT have a monopoly on their lines. Of course you can go with another service provider but you still have to pay your line rental to BT - you can't get the line for free or move it to another provider and then pay them your line rental :confused:

Re: merger even closer??
 

Guess you have never read this link

Re: merger even closer??
 

Not really as they effectively already have monopolies in the franchise areas they own. It just means that for TV you will either go with sky,NTelewestL,Freeview. For Telephone/Internet there are a raft of companies out there.

But there will still be two cable companies in the UK NTelewestL and Wight Cable (Wight Cable North)

Re: merger even closer??
 

Both the regulator and the MMC are likely to get involved, but given that it will only increase competition for the markets leaders in DTV and telecoms (Sky and BT), it will almost certainly be a formality.

Re: merger even closer??
 

ntl and telewest merging has been on the cards for ages an inevitability, it's only circumstances in each company that have delayed it happening sooner. But the wheels been in motion for long time all the signs been there.

Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

i hope that ntl + telewest have all Internet access under the Blueyonder brand - they seem to have a much better service and people are far more content with the service! unlike jolly old ntlworld !
:)

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

I think once the merger occurs - I think the majority of customers on both sides will want Telewest BB services to take presidence - I do not think there will be an immediate effect at the change of packages on both sides after the merge, like there wasn't when Ex CW customers became ntl customers. Who knows what will happen but it would certainly be good if ntl customers could have the option of a 3MB connection. :)

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

How can a specific companies services take presidence?

NTL's has a completely different network. They could keep all products specific to set regions.

You should not count your chickens when you don't know what might happen!

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

Hence why I said 'I do not think there will be an immediate effect at the change of packages on both sides after the merge and Who knows what will happen'. :)

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

Because that's what happens in a merger. One company generally takes on the name of the other (usually the larger) and the products get conusmed or merged into the portfolio.

Where there are products that are similar, they are likely to end up as one - as ntl really don't want another fiasco like the one they're just starting to get themselves out of with different prices and products in different areas.

A merger is generally a polite term for a take-over where one company will be the dominant, but there will be some equity swapping and places on boards going down (like Granada/Carlton recently).

There are two options - either take one name or another - or the better option (given the bad press of both cablecos) will be to come up with a snazzy new name for the newco. If any ad agency sees this and uses it - I'll sue for millions - but as we already have 'Sky' would could name the new one 'Ground'!!

As for merging of product line-ups and back-end stuff....well I think we are already seeing some alignment of the products available (like the broadband announcement a couple of weeks ago).

I forsee more of this in the coming months, as the two companies work together for a harmonised offer.

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

I thought the new name could be ntwest - sure someone mentioned it here, but they can't have the domain ntwest.com its gone. :disturbd:

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

They could always resurrect the old CableTel brand name :)

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

even if telewest did take over ntl's bb, it wouldn't make it any better unless telewest upgraded ntls network which would send them way back into the red

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

yep, we dont know what 'would' happen if the merger happened, but it would be 'good for business' if NTL adopted telewest's tiered broadband system, i think it would make NTL more competative.......then i come back down to reality in NTL's thinking of a 'missed oppertunity' going by again :rolleyes:

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

It's all a case of business organisation and marketing - the basic networks are going to remain in their current form - Like in NTL there are both the langly and bromley platforms - does anyone know if the telewest network is similar/easily converted to one or other of these platforms?

Chances are we'll have a minimum of two networks, probably three - the actual likelyness of the individual networks going wrong isn't likely to change!
That said, the way the rest of the company is run WILL change. policy will be merged, the things like speeds (which have already been kind of standardised) will be negotiated between marketing and technical - there's no point in taking all the good bits (uncaped service, 3meg speeds) if part of the network will collapse under the strain.

As for branding, I must say I had a wee giggle to meself when I thought it could be called ntllywest. It just sounds a bit funny :D

I imagine for a while it will be called NTL:Telewest, then a big rebranding will be done 6months to a year after the merger, costing about £2milli on. No reason why it shouldn't work, as long as they do it right!

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

Shame TW can't afford to just buy Ntl out. :(

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

I would imagine if they do merge telewest will be swallowed up by ntl. they call the telewest region ntl: telewest for a while then they'll drop the telewest moiker altogether.

there will probably be a gradual alignent of services. if there is call for 3 meg service for ntl customer then I am sure they will do it. I would imagine it won't be for a while yet though as there has been little uptake of ntl's 1meg service

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

The point I was (rather convolutedly, admitedly) trying to make was that the actual structure of the network means it doesn't matter *WHO* owns it, it's still going to go wrong for the same reasons - it's just the way that it's managed to be fixed when it *does* go wrong that would change...

... that said, that wouldnt be a bad thing ;)

If 3meg is popular on Telewest and they can continue to provide it without any detriment to the network, they'll keep it, but only roll it out across everyone if the network can take it. otherwise it'll stay "Only available in some regions"

Those regions being ex-TW, of course...

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

My general knowledge on the area.

One of the NTL networks (the e CW) is built on the same underlying structure as TW. This is why many thought TW would have been the better buyer for CW as they would have been able to integrate the networks. The NTL (Cabletel) network is being migrated toward this infrastracture, but a migration of that much hardware and software takes time.

Most mergers fail to work as they are for the wrong reasons. I cannot see wrong reasons in this merger. Would it make sense to have BT operating in parts of the country and say Mercury (remember that) operating in others. The country is small enough that a single cable operator will not be a competitive threat with sky and freeview as competition.

Of the names NTL makes more sense from a corporate level than Telewest. National Television (transmissions whatever it was) Ltd or Telewest, but the operate in the North, South and East too! Cabletel is an interesting thought as pointed out above, the tel being television or telephone, but it does not have any broadband indications.

Ground, nice thought, but Sky has that "blue sky" thinking about it, a sense of freedom etc, ground, well you can see the financial headlines. Grounds expansion plans grounded. Grounds share price comes plummiting back to earth.

Post merger it will initially be buisiness as usuall for a good while. NTL and CW merged a long time ago and for the DTV transmission teams I imagine little has changed.

First will be integration and centralisation of call centres, billing etc This is now happening at NTL. I imagine that this structure will be used in the brave new world of Telenet ((c) SMHarman) See Telephone, Television and Network (BB). Harmony was probably designed to be scaled up to nationwide use.

Next the network integration will commence - probably at least 18 months post merger, and of course when all possible (not all) TV broadcast is using the same end user software.

That would be my strategy. But for 6-9 months you will see nothing as it will be planning phase. 9-18 months nothing but your bill might look different and behind the scenes you will be routed to different call centres etc. 18+ months strategic network changes.

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

I think that this sort of timescale would make sense...

There is a lot of different technologies to merge together - not least the accounting systems and the backend servers (NTL and Telewest have different Server technology IIRC).

I would envisage an announcement in the near future, as I have friends in telewest who are openly discussing how some of this may be achieved (with the usual "if we were to merge..." caveat.

I think the actual network changes would start at approx 18-24 months and last for a good 24 months, as there are a lot of "green boxes" out there, and they would all need to have the same work done on them.

The Headend sites would logically be the first to be aligned, then they would need to rollout to the various local ditribution points, then on to the green boxes, then to the homes (assuming the cable at those extremeties would need modifying).

That said - I am probably completely wrong about everything :dunce:

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

Why do I get the feeling its only NTL customers that wont this merger. I dont know anyone on Telewest who wonts it to go ahead.

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

because telewest customers are the one's with something to lose, they currently have better product's.

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

The financial markets want / expect this merger, they can see the operational synergys alongside a comprehensive UK wide marketing strategy, rather than this "if you live in a Telewest Cable Broadband area", it will be if a cable passes your front door call this number.

It's a frustration for a potential customer to workout who his provider is to call them, when just calling the one Sky number will do the same trick and well a BT line is probably already installed. Inertia is a benefit for NTL, Sky and BT.

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

Marketing costs will certainly be much more cost effective. Freuently we hear Telewest radio adverts. They have all the positive "I want it" vibes. Ntl has by comparison a very low profile. In my area, ntl, I'm very close to a Telewest franchise. As a result I often get the freebie newspapers with telewest advertising stuffed through my door. It makes me go green with envy.

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

I'd rather there was a proposed merger with (takeover by) Honda.

What if things just worked.................

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

lol - someone gets taken in by advertising, those big budgets aren't a waste of time then ;)

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

Taken in ? Hardly.
Was more in the nature of a sarcastic wish list. :cool:

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

Just a thought, as an ex Nynex, ex CoCo, NTL customer....

Lets give a thought to the "front-line" staff from the call centres to installers to engineers. they are the guys (in the American sense.. sorry girls) who hold the company together and who I as a customer have dealings with. If TW and NTL do merge, lets hope that they get a good deal from it first.

I generally get a good service from NTL staff, lets hope any further changes look after them first. If they are happy, us customers will be too.

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

Repost!!

Forgot the /TW front-line staff!

Sorry guys, just re-read my last post.

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

But isn't that how the NTL email servers work? Little bits of mechanical stuff clunking into one another eventually getting the message to you.

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

How NTL email really works.

1. You type the mail and click send.
2. Your mail client sends the mail to NTL
3. At NTL, the mail is printed. An operator picks up the printout, hands it to another operator, who hands it to another operator, and so on.
4. Eventually it gets to the an operator who posts it via the Royal Mail.

The same thing happens in reverse for recieving mail... :D

BTW, I am joking..

Re: Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

LOL scastle, sounds about right as email usually takes 2 days to arrive, they must use second class for sending tho as when I send it takes 5 days.

Ok this is what I think will happen if/when merger happens.

All packages will stay the same for at least 6 months but probably longer, the new company will make the excuse saying due to technical and administration reasons we cannot provide the old telewest packages into ex-ntl areas.
A usage cap will be phased into ex telewest customers, this will probably happen within 3-6 months.
Prices for the 1.5mbit product will be merged so they the same, probably meaning a price rise for ex telewest customers.
After 12-24 months ex ntl customers will start getting the 3mbit package, but to limit availability they will only make it available in digital areas.

NTL + Telewest Merge at end of year!
 

What is everyones views on this? i spoke to 4 NTL people (different people on different occasions) and they all tell me NTL and telewest are merging at the end of the year. Is this a good or a bad thing?

Re: NTL + Telewest Merge at end of year!
 

Don't believe everything you hear to be honest, that's all I have to say on it, I don't know anything definite and would imagine nor does anyone below director level.

Re: [Merged ;)] NTL/TW merger even closer??
 

if they are going to merge what will they be called;

NTelewestworld

NTELEworld

British cable

I website that was posted in our chatroom is an eye opener.just click and watch nothing evil just a merger idea

Re: [Merged ;)] NTL/TW merger even closer??
 

NTelewest
or
a return to CableTel
or
UKCable

or something like that! :)

Re: [Merged ;)] NTL/TW merger even closer??
 

Obivoiously NTL is a much bigger company so they might just change Telewest Broadband areas to be named NTL:Telewest.


What is interesting though. What will happen to the shares in Telewest if/when this merger happens. It is a gamble because if ntl buy them out, ntl are not floated on the uk stock market (afaik) but telewest are under two names Telwest Global and Telwest Communications (afaik again). So ntl might just buy all of telewests shares back at **** prices but if they don't they will go up when a marger/buy out happens.

It is so difficult to tell.

Re: [Merged ;)] NTL/TW merger even closer??
 

Ah yes but they will be floating on the NASDAQ from July 19th have a look at this. I presume they will cease trading in the UK.:rolleyes:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/s...236522,00.html

Re: [Merged ;)] NTL/TW merger even closer??
 

But by the time the TW restructuring has been completed, the bulk of the shares in both co's will be in the hands of the banks that provided the original debt finance, thus the shareholders of both companies will already be one and the same. The merger is just part of the process of rejuvination of their balance sheet and creating value before an offering of the shares in the new company.

Re: [Merged ;)] NTL/TW merger even closer??
 

What do you think this will mean in terms of the internet service they provide? Will ntl increase the network capacity of their existing areas to bring them into line with Telewest, or could we see *shudder* ntl-type internet in Telewest areas (slower, with caps, etc)?

Re: [Merged ;)] NTL/TW merger even closer??
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...ghlight=merger

This thread is rather a duplication of one a few weeks ago. There is my view.

[MOD EDIT] All Threads regarding the Merger have been merged
say that when you had one too many !!

Re: [BIG MERGE] Ntl/TW merger - what if...?
 

how about re naming them "1bigger crapper company ltd"