NTL worse than BT
 

I think a campaign should be started to open up the NTL network to competition.
I use a dial in internet connection and currently you get much better choice and cheaper prices if you are on a BT phone line than NTL (as little as £4.99 week days, with some services offering no maximum connection time).
The NTL service has got more and more expensive but there has NOT been a subsequent improvement in services, the current price hike is a whopping 25%+ up from £10 to £12+ per month, how many people will be receiving a 25% pay rise this year. And with inflation at less than 2%.
In effect NTL can charge what they like and say things like †œwe are still 1p less than BT", but this is not true because BT lines are open to competition, if you have a BT line you can get internet services for £4.99 per month. Thatâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s why people switch back its not because BT is any better it is because there is competition on the BT lines and none on NTL.
NTL like to argue that they are more focused on broadband and that no one matches their broadband services. Well if you have an NTL broadband be warned from their record on dial in connection, once they have a critical mass of customers their prices are going to leap up dramatically, yes they may end up £1 or so below BT but with no competition you will end up paying more then the more open BT system where competitors can offer cheaper and more varied services.
The NTL trick seems to be to trap customers with initial hard to refuse offers (remember when you got free internet connections and NTL were winning awards for it), then hike the prices and talk about it being still good value when it cllearly is not. I will not be surprised when NTL suddenly hike broadband prices like they have done to the dial in prices.
Perhaps the government can force NTL to open up their non competitive services to competition the way they opened up the BT service.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Not likely as the BT network was paid for (or the vast majority of it, anyway) while the company was publicly owned. ntl's/Telewest's network has been paid for by private funding and as such they shouldn't be forced to open up the network.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

:confused:

BT is the competition to NTL ....

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

W are led to believe that BT is the competition to NTL but this is misleading because there are several companies that offer competitive services on the BT line (and donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t get me wrong I am not Pro BT †“ I just do not want to see NTL going down the road of the old BT), and some of these services are better than NTL, in effect NTL is becoming what BT was many years ago.
If companies behave in a non competitive manor without having a competitor to pull them into line the government can bring in laws to streamline the service to British customers. Why companies think the UK is the wild west and they can treat customers as they like I do not know. Even in the USA companies are broken up if it is believed they are behaving in a non competitive manor. I think NTL are beginning to behave like this.
If other companies had access to the NTL cable network we may see better services.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

hi and :welcome: to the site ackees , sorry but i cant see it happening somehow :( , even if ntl and telewest do join up together i cant see anything untoward :)

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

We are being hoodwinked by NTL and I think some of their announcements are misleading.
Best consumer ISP
How many do you see on NTL network and how many on the BT line network?
http://www.ispaawards.org.uk/categor...t_consumer.htm
Best metered ISPââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s
How many do you see on NTL network and how many on the BT line network?
http://www.ispaawards.org.uk/categories/metered.htm
and so on, and so on
http://www.ispaawards.org.uk/
NTL keeps talking about BT because it suits them.
What about the real competition?
When NTL increaser the broadband by 25% a lot of people will be caught out.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

sorry but i dont get this , what are you trying to prove :confused: , i for one would like to know what you are going on about :confused:

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s very simple. NTL send out letters saying they are going to raise prices by 25%+ and that we still have a good deal because BT is even more expensive. I do some research and find that it is not quite so simple, there are other services on the BT network that are cheaper of offer better options for dial in like no max time cut off, so I feel I am being hoodwinked by NTL. I also believe that if you raise prices you should offer a better service. The 2 hour cut out has been there for many years in fact. While prices have increased there has been no improvement of this facility.
And I am not interested in broadband, I also believe that NTL will eventually treat the broadband customers the same as the dial in customers in the end. Since NTL took over services have become steadily worse over the years.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Um, what NTL price has risen by 25% :confused:

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

if NTL are so crap then why dont you just cancel your line with them and move back to BT?

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

I think he is referring to the £10 pm dial-up unlimited increasing to £12.49 pm from 1st June

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Doh, nevermind, for some reason it didn't register as 25% :dunce:

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

so if the price of bread goes up you expect it to be better quality :confused: :confused: :confused:
by the by , arent ntl increasing the dl speed on cable , uhhhhhh yes they are , etccarmageddon nailed it spot on , if you are not happy then sack ntl , go back to bt and hopefully you will be happy until it starts working the other way around ;)

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

at £12.50 a month I think he should ditch it and get cable modem if possible.

alternatively get a BT line and see what you can get with your £10 a month budget - I suspect you will find alternatives to NTL are just as pricey or more expensive.

http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/anytim...nternet_access

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

good point :tu:

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Telephone networks are not the same as bread, but yes if the bread leaps in price there would have to be some improvement, like a switch to organic flour for example. What do you think would happen if a bread supplier in a certain district decided to raise prices and then said †˜If you donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t like it you can go and get bread elsewhereââ‚ ¬â„¢? Especially if there was not enough competition in the bread baking industry.
The whole argument that if you donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t like it you can go to BT is exactly the issue. It is totally disgraceful to tout yourself as a †˜good alternativeâââ€Å ¡Ã‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ entice people over to your service and once they are trapped with emails, phone numbers etc all locked then offer a worse service because you well know of the difficulties of switching. Switching services back and forth as suppliers drop their services and value for money is not the answer, the answer is tight regulations that prevent companies from playing fast and loose with customers.
This had to be done with BT and it looks like we are reaching a point where companies like Ntl need tighter control on the services they provide and the prices they charge. Currently there is nothing from stopping NTL from saying "Our basic broadband service will increase in price from £17.50 to £30 and it is still better value thanâ₠¬Ã‚¦Ã¢â ‚¬ÂÂ�
From their record on dial up I am willing to bet that NTL will do something like this.
They know once they have you it is awkward for you to change, the difference between BT broadband and NTL will shrink (perhaps down to only £0.50 difference).

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Worse service ? - I thought the price had gone up, the service is the same, just more expensive.

Like it or not - I think you will struggle to find another unlimited dial-up for less than £12.49 a month - and if you have ntl tv as well then you are already paying for an ntl phone line so paying for a BT line as well would be plain daft.

Moaning and complaining about the rise is one thing - no one likes having to pay more - but think very carefully before changing just because if it - the phrase "cutting off you nose to spite your face" springs to mind. :)

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

ok, but in this case it looks like the bread is already a third cheaper than alternative bread and they're putting the price up to a level still lower than BT bread.

as for being trapped with your phone number - that's not true - you should be able to port your number over to BT.

"Currently there is nothing from stopping NTL from saying "Our basic broadband service will increase in price from £17.50 to £30 and it is still better value thanâ₠¬Ã‚¦"

there is actually something stopping them from doing this - their customers would leave them.

I suspect the reason NTL have upped this price by 25% is simply the market has changed - profits are in the broadband sector.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

The issue is wider than †œswitchingà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Ã⠀šÃ‚Â�, the issue is about cleaver and divisive practices and an abuse of services. And it is an important service . And your comments seem to be a good example of the current NTL attitude to customers, it reminds me of the old BT, in the end they were forced to change and realise that they did not have a divine right to abuse an important service to the community just because they owned some cables. Their fake protestations about being competitive were exposed.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

have you asked them why the price has gone up by 25% - perhaps there's a reason?

have you considered cable modem or ADSL - for a few quid more per month you'll get a much better product.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

the difference with BT was that they inherited the infrastructure from the state and were in a dominant position. whereas the cable companies have built the infrastructure/inherited the costs of the build and because of this have massive debts.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Mate im not sure what the beef is.
You have many choices . Use one

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

We should not be fooled by arguments about markets and competition. NTL also inherited a few things and one of them is the streets and houses we live in, the potential customers they inherited are important, else you would have companies like ntl laying cables in the deserts where for a fraction of the tax they can lay as many cables as they like. We also know that markets can be cleverly manipulated and abused, total free for all are not allowed even in the most capitalist country †“ America.
I smell a rat with NTL promotions and there hike in prices and something needs to be done.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

How do you feel about the upgrade in the speeds that will be coming ?

Your making out like the little men are coming or something. Like i say mate, there are plenty of other fish in the sea. NTL will run their campaign as well as they can and hope it works. You the customer do have a choice. :erm:

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

I am not sure if this has evolved into a 'Pro ntl' thread, or a 'spot the troll' thread - I will keep watching.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Funnily enough I was starting to wonder "do I also smell a rat" :scratch:

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

I suspect a waft of rodent has assaulted our collective nostrils

Nice to see even die-hard 'antis' rallying to defend a common cause tho ;)

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Erm, unless I am much mistaken, when NTL bought those cable companies that did build the network, as well as the customers those cable companies built up, they also inherited the debt incurred in building the network. British Telecom (IIRC) had their debt paid off by the government before they were privatised. So, they effectively got the network (large parts of which were upgraded to their current state in the late 70s/early 80s while BT was still a nationalised company).

Anyway, I digress. NTL do have competition. In DTV, they have Sky & Freeview (which works out much cheaper if you aren't bothered about the channels it doesn't have).

For Dial up, most companies seem to require BT for unmetered access, but there may be some that support NTL. Also, some pay as you go options support NTL.

For Broadband they are competing with ADSL (which, admittedly, you need a BT line for) and Satellite (which is expensive). For phones, there are various companies (which require a BT line), BT themselves or the various mobile phone companies.

My point being that if you are in any way unhappy with your service, there are alternatives.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Talk of trolls etc are beside the point, I am not an enemy or a sycophantic supporter. It is dreadful practice to increase prices for improvements that have not yet been implemented.
What I have seen is customers becoming commodities, I think that some sycophantic users are completely unaware of the deep level of manipulation that some companies are capable of. NTL value for money and services have steadily got worse, now there are those who will sing their praises to the end (aka animal farm) but I think something is going wrong with Ntl, and that does not mean that I think BT etc are better (forget the switch here and switch there argument), this is about a company failing to maintain standards, standards that many people who joined originally expected but have been cleverly eroded. Ntl seem to have a policy of attracting customers with incentives but once their base reaches a critical mass reducing those services and increasing prices cleverly.
Some type of protection is needed for users or more competition on the ntl network.
I bet the broadband customers will get it in the neck next.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

wot u mean like running aol over an ntl line? or wanadoo (1p min only) or gio or tesco (comming soon) or.......

my point is the ntl network is available to other isp's if they so wish.....

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Are NTL networks available to 3rd parties?
Can another company offer broadband over the NTL cable?
Can someone confirm this?
Can a company †˜hot new servicesââ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ contact NTL and say:
We want to offer broadband at half the price you sell it using your network?

At one time BT would argue that their services were open to competition, but as we know they controlled the licensing prices so much that it was not practical for anyone to compete, the government had to step in and make them lower prices to competitors.

You see the most important thing is the control of reasonable base prices, sure you can have the grease lightening top tier service that cost a lot but if the basic service starts costing a lot then not only does it lock out poorer customers (who then cannot have a service) but it forces all the other prices up.
So if dial in goes up to £17.50
Basic broadband will go up to £30 and so on.
Unreasonable price inflation.

Look at it like this:
Will NTL be increasing wages by 25%?
Will there be an increase of speed by 25% taking 56kps to 70kbs?
Will there be an extension of online time before disconnect from 2 hours up to 2.5 hours?
Has inflation increased by 25% in the last year?

Yes you can have companies say:
†œCome over to us and we will give you free internet accessââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ�
and then increase their prices dramatically while saying:
†œItÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ ’¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€Å ¾Ã‚¢s only reasonable that we increase our prices to match our competitorsâââ€Å ¡Ã‚¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ�
If you join a service you need some security that the company will not then increase prices unreasonably once you are on board, to do so at unreasonable rates is disreputable.
What would happen in a few years if the services we depend on were allowed to increase prices year on year at 25% (last year NTL increased the price by 100%).
Market conditions cannot control such abuse because all the companies will raise prices give or take a few pence between them to offer the sham of competition, consumers need protection.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Yes. AOL already do this. If you are talking about "Local Loop Unbundling" though, NTL don't seem to offer this, and TBH, BT are not exactly being co-operative with offering it either.

NTL will lose customers to other ISPs. It would not be in their interest to do this.

I doubt it
Impractical. Users would need new modems.


I do agree with you that in a lot of areas, customers need protection. But, the market will NOT keep absorbing those kinds of price rises. Look at the mobile phone market. That's still expensive, but it's actually quite reasonable compared to prices in the late 80s early 90s. The government have intervened in that market, but I think the major change in mobile phones occured when Mercury Communications leapt into the market with One2One.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

OK so Ntl are increasing the speed of the 150k service to 300k. The price is staying the same.

Using your logic should Ntl double the price of the 150k service to keep the dialup competitively priced?

At the end of the day Ntl are a business not a charity. You cannot expect them to keep their prices static if every competitor is increasing their prices.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

No one ever said that prices should never increase, only that they should increase at reasonable rates.
The broadband speed up from 150 to 300 is a good point.
We are talking about value here, is the value of the increase worth double the priece?
What is the added value of the 25% dial up increase?
In the end as mentioned above we are really talking about a range of services, yes some customers would be happy to pay double for double speed, and thatâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s OK, but for those who want a service and do not need double speed should they be forced to accept a doubling of charges or should they be accommodated?

Thatâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s why Ntl needs opening up so that people are not forced into paying exorbitantly all the time. Imagine everything going up 25% (because of some arbitrarily perceived added value by the company) but your wages remaining fixed to 2%.
The free market does not control itself as we are often led to believe, if companies are allowed complete free range they abuse customers. Ntl is abusing itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s existing customer base (not an exaggeration, I recently enquired about an attractive new offer and was told it is only available to new customers).

We need guidelines about Ntl price increases because they are going rampant and unreasonable (apart from the fictitious †˜marketÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ ’¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€Å ¾Ã‚¢ what is to stop Ntl from doubling prices next year? I think BT prices may be capped but what about Ntl?).

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Why should ntl be stopped from doubling their prices if they want to be that stupid and suicidal ? - every business charges what they think people will pay, and will also make them a profit.

If ntl did double their prices then their customers would leave and they would go out of business - so it's not really likely to happen is it. :rolleyes:

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

What you have to remember is that there are several reasons for price increases.

A company may decide to offer a service at no cost to the customer, something that NTL did with its dial-up internet access. Naturally if you are offering something for free there comes a time when you have to start charging for it, after all it costs the company something to provide it and in the long term the company has to make a profit. Do you move from a free service to a paid for service at the going rate that others charge? Not really, you work towards it over a period of time. That means annual price rises above the rate of inflation.

Ackees is looking at the dial-up price increase as being a rip off, but in reality NTLs dial-up customers have been getting a bargain for years and are now still enjoying the service at below average price.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

ackees, could you explain why you cannot use BT services? Is it actually a case of can not, or will not?

As Pem says, NTL are free to to raise their prices as they see fit (AFAIK so are BT now), but it would be commercial suicide for them to do so. Nearly all (if not all) people that can get NTL can also get BT/Sky (if they want the DTV & Phone). As for saying they are cheaper than BT, they probably are compared to the Standard BT tariff (a trick which nearly all other phone companies pull).

Regarding what you say about offers for new customers, this is also standard practice amongst other companies (especially Mobile phone companies). Also, they are not the only ISP to introduce a free service then suddenly replace it with a paid service. Freeserve, or Wanadoo as they are now have done it (they could hardly call themselves Freeserve if they weren't free).

As for the 4.99 ISPs you have mentioned, I think you'll probably find the price goes up after a couple of months, as these are probably special offers.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Yes we are getting closer to an understanding, all the companies play these games with prices, BT is not better than NTL and NTL is not better than BT (though BT does have more competition on its network), switching from one to the other and back is foolish because you will encounter similar problem, the idea of an the all powerful market that reigns back companies from over charging is a mirage. The only thing these companies really understand is tough regulations, it is beginning to look like some regulations in regards to pricing is needed to control excessive price hikes at NTL.

All this reminds me of the loan shark,
The man borrows £100 to pay the gas bill (or broadband bill) and the loan sharks says £20 a week only 10% interest, and the man thinks no problem I can cope with that, then the following month he tells the man prices have changed, the poor man ends up paying 1000% interest, whenever the loan shark wants to make a bit extra he up the interest. This is what Ntl have been doing, raising prices at inflated %â₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢s as they feel like it, and it needs to stop.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

What? So if the loan shark raises prices are you allowed to cancel the debt and walk away, somehow I don't think so. If Ntl raises the prices we give plenty of notice and allow the cancellation of contracts if the prices rise.

You have said several times that Ntl should allow competition. They do. It's called BT. Almost all Ntl customers can get BT and pay their prices if they choose to do so.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Jsut been looking here: www.moneysavingexpert.com

This is intresting:

Cost of a 10 min daytime call to a T-mobile phone

NTL
£2.50

BT Standard Rate
£1.90

Telecom Plus
£1.85

BT Together
£1.80

Tele2
£1.70

Talk Talk
£1.65

Just Dial Saver
£1.65

18866/Telestunt/1899
£1.00

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

he can but he wont because he has setup email accounts etc which he can not port. he also said he cant port his phone number which is untrue.

ackees - even if the NTL phone network was unbundled you'd still have the the same problems transferring your email accounts etc as you would if you changed to BT.

by your own admission NTL are worse than BT - so why arent you with BT?


:Yikes:

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

He may not need to port his number, I've just ben looking at my call provider, and according to the new compay (www.1899.com) their service is avalable to most UK landline owners, you just dial a freephone number before you dial the number you want to call.

And at .5p per min to landlines, it's a great deal.


http://www.1899.com/index2.php

As for Internet service providers, there are several as Dezzo or Monkey-breath pointed out that are available to Ntl customers. It really should be that hard to find alternative suppliers. Like others also pointed out, there is also BT. I found the switch relatively painless, maybe if your that fed up its time to look again.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

that's no good unless they also give him his internet dial up access for £10 a month.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Unfortunately many people have swallowed the †˜switch providerââ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ trap hook line and sinker. Switching waste time and money and causes distress to honest customers. The telecoms providers have massaged this well and play cleaver games with it.
It is a bit like saying if you do not like the bread prices in London got to Scotland to get your bread, and if the price jumps up there run back to London for your bread, nuts.
The service provider in each area must be made to supply services at a certain standard and they must be forced to maintained reasonable prices and their price increases must be reasonable. A 25% price rise after a 100% price rise is not reasonable.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Nice in the perfect world but these companies are in business to make money not to be there for us. I wish it could work like this but its sadly pie in the sky.

If you owned a telecoms compnay would you now want to maximise profits and expand your empire ?

I am no fan of NTL but I can see why they have done this ( all be it in a slightly underhand way )

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Depending on his usage I'm sure he'll be able to find an alternative supplier, Tesco (comming soon apparently) do a daytime package for about £6 a month.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

And Ntl providing an unlimited dialup service which is still cheaper than virtually all their competitors even after the price rises is unreasonable how?

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

it's called 'shopping around' - if you're not willing to do it and suffer the 'distress' (lmao) of having to switch to a better supplier then that's your problem.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

and i will second that , i must still wonder what you are trying to prove :(

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Ackees - why exactly are you here :confused: All this has been gone over time after time in other threads - you seem to have just appeared with the intent of causing an argumentative thread - is there actually some point to all this ?

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Maybe he's ......
.........
.........
.........
.........
UDT? :D

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

As explained before I am not an obsequious sycophant who believes NTL can do no wrong nor an agitator, I am an NTL customer who has seen services get worse and worse, just like the old BT. I thought this was the NTL board, correct me if I am in the wrong place.
Is there another board for NTL or is this it?

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

regardless , what are you trying to prove :confused: , if you dont like it then ship out , it cannot be more simple , a quick google will provide you with some ntl hate sites , you may have more success on one of them :erm:

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

this is not about hate (or love), I do not hate NTL, thats an odd statement.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

it wasnt an odd statement at all , what i was saying was there are some ntl hate , and i do mean hate sites out there , go and have a look :erm:

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

lol, I have been around too long to be distracted by attempts to divert my (and others) attention from my question. I asked what the motive for this thread was, not if you were lost. This is looking more and more like an attempt to troll the site and simply stir up arguments for the sake of it.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

No I am not a troll (I have herd this term , it would be great if you could give a full explanation of a troll †“ I assume it is an impostor sent to cause trouble), and I am serious about the fall in the services that Ntl provide and the way they are raising their prices without improving services accordingly. There has been a steady erosion of the benefits for which I joined Ntl.
Now the issues are greater than hop over to this or that service because they may be a £1 less or they offer sweets with their package. I want to explore these issues and I want to hear what others have to say on it.

Actually you are the one behaving oddly instead of exploring the issues and possible ways that ntl could improve the situation you start talking about †˜hate sitesââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ and †˜trollsÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ ’¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€Å ¾Ã‚¢ ( I donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t know about hate sites, and have never been to one, and have no intention of subscribing to one).

Can Ntl improve or are things going to get steadily worse as they have been (anyone who has been with ntl any length of time will realise that they have got worse).
In a sense it is a wider industry problem (but because I am an Ntl customer I raise the issue here), thatâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s why switching may be of no use ultimately. I am beginning to believe the systems set in place that forced the opening up of UK telecoms (and ultimately allowed Ntl to exist) are being abused and may need looking at by the government.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

There can be many reasons why NTL would raise prices above inflation. They may have (probably had to after defaulting) promised increased dividends to Bond holders*, their other costs may have risen beyond inflation (fuel, taxes, rent etc) or they may be trying to persuade their Dial up subscribers to get 150K broadband (which is only £5 more, and is three times the speed). Another reason for a huge price increase is that (and I don't have any figures to back this up, so I could be wrong) NTL may be losing Dial up customers (to both their own Broadband and competitors), therefore the cost per customer goes up by greater than the cost of inflation.

I can only speak for myself when I say this: I joined cable in about 1998 when we still had Cable & Wireless. Cable & Wireless were unprofessional (the engineer came, installed the cable, plugged in the box then sodded off leaving me to clear up the mess he had made and rewire the box so it worked properly) and did not deliver what they promised (to the consumer anyway, the backend stuff is apparently brilliant). NTL came along and within a few months they delivered Broadband and have actually been a whole lot more professional to me than C&W ever were. 1Mbps Broadband is looking a bit overpriced now, but it is still cheaper than a lot of ADSL providers for the same speed.

*It may seem a waste of money paying Bondholders higher dividends, but if they don't get what they want, they pull their money out. If this happens, NTL is dead.

There are a lot of ways that NTL can improve and (on the technical side at least) they seem to be trying. There are also areas NTL needs to look at (customer relations being one).

You claim that switching comms providers may be of no use ultimately. If that is the case, why open the network as it would be useless for anyone to switch providers?

I think increasing competition on networks has worked to lower prices (I know it has, when I first started using the Internet back in 94, we had 14.4K modems and had to pay £15.99 a month to either Demon or Pipex (plus a few others). This did NOT include phone charges (which could be anywhere up to 60p an hour). Phone charges (if you use one of NTL, Telewest, or BT's schemes) are also lower.

My point is that I believe that the market can regulate it's own prices.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

You seem to have a good grasp of what a troll is so no further explanation is needed. I haven't mentioned "hate sites" that was someone else, but I do remain unconvinced of your motives, let's hope my doubts prove to be unfounded. :cool:

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢ve just given ntl 30 days notice bt line 14th May also taking my number with me i have had no problems its easier to change then many people think bt has done everything for me
Mainly because of the 25% increase on dialup its not worth paying £12.50 when you can get broadband for £15 to £18 Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢ve wanted to get broadband for a while 512k not 150k but ntl are uncompetitive on price e.g.
150k 17.99 12moths contract
Plus net £15 512k
£17.99 UN capped
Bulldog 512k £15.99
Also there is more choice on dialup on BT
Wise surfer support ntl £7.50pm 80h
Naims £9.99 168hpm 3hour cutoff 5 moths for the price of 3 £29.97
Even with the higher speeds ntl 1 Mb £37.99
Bulldog 1 Mb £24.99
2 Mb £37.99

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Couple of things you forgot by the way - those are all cheap and slightly dodgy products. ok....

Plusnet's £17.99 package comes with various blocked ports as it's a light user package.

Bulldog's 512k £15.99 and Plus's £15 pm are limited.

Any ISP offering 168 hours per month for £29.97 is going to be a tad short on ports I'd guess - would love to see what their connection rate is at peak times.

Bulldog have a pretty poor reputation - £24.99 is less than BT charge them for 1Mbit so its' probably using the much maligned Datastream system which has shown considerable congestion issues in the past. Ditto the 2Mbit which must be a special offer or offpeak only on both?

Anyway you picked a weird time to leave considering that speeds are going up for free pretty shortly, however all the best with it!

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

If Ntl are raising their prices to force people onto the more expensive broadband that is a disgraceful policy.
Does this then mean that Ntl will discontinue dial up? Also once you are on broadband whatâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s to stop them from raising prices to force you up to the more expensive options?

Ntl were a good company but they seem to be slipping, to raise prices by 25% shows a disregard for customers.
If they had said something like:
Standard dial up £10 two hour cut off
Extended dial up £12.50 4 hours before cut off or something then customers would have a choice and feel that the company was offering something useful for the price hike.

If there were others on the Ntl network then Ntl may say next year prices will rise by 50% but another company on the network could hold prices down then you would have some kind of choice.
With these price rises I think people are loosing trust in Ntl, it becomes scary to go to broadband on Ntl, they could just raise their prices by 100% and you would have no choice but to switch. If Ntl are moving over to the business end of the market and do not value the domestic end where profits are less they must say so, so we know where we are. I do not want to wast time playing silly games with marketing and cleaver pricing tricks.
I am an old fashioned customer I prefer to go with a company that is trustworthy and get on with life, Looking around each month for the best deals doesnââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t suit me.
I am loosing trust with Ntl, I donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t know what kind of wild price rise they might do next.

Broadband for £15 sounds attractive, also 3 hours before cut off sounds good too.

Is there someone from Ntl around here? Can someone from Ntl step forward and answer some points?
I need some assurances about the future on Ntl, also can they offer more options?

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Wake up ackees, a 25% price increase does not mean that it is unwarranted or a rip off.

When NTL were giving FREE dialup access and then changed this to £10 was this a rip off or were they just moving to a realistic price for the product? At £10 it was still cheaper than other dial up ISPs charged.

Many products start life on introductory prices in order to get market share and then move to a realistic price within the marketplace.

Don't think of it as a 25% price increase but a realistic price after having had a long period of cut price promotion.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Why? As it's been stated before Ntl is a company and not a charity. They would prefer customers to be on broadband and not dialup.

If prices do rise then customers can cancel their contract and move to another provider.

Yes there are people from Ntl around here. Myself and various others.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

dial up is an old techology - eventually it will become uneconomical to supply and you will have no option but to move to Broadband. just as 2nd generation phones replaced the original 'bricks' from the 1980s.


only if other companies were offering a dial up package at a price similar to NTL's. but as stated previously other companies are offering it at around £15 and above - so if the NTL network was opened up you'd have other companies making NTL look cheap not expensive.


dont exagerate - you wont need to shop around EACH month. if it doesnt suit you then you only have yourself to blame.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

You are wrong ianathuth, as mentioned above it is a common loan shark trick to raise prices dramatically after you have got the customer. The initial offer was that because it was cable and they were not paying leases to BT they could give customers free internet with a 2hour limit, it was not marketed as a †˜limited offerââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢, it was marketed as a long term offer.
Take the broadband offer, free for a period of time then you pay the full price, nice and clear you know exactly what you will be paying after the introductory period.
Thatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s not how the original dial up offer was, it was clearly †˜if you come over to us we will give you free dial upâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢
Now everyone understands that nothing remains free forever so when Ntl started charging it was not a problem. But with their recent price hikes it now looks like they tricked customers.
If they had initially come out and said: †˜our prices will end up about the same as BT or even moreâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ (and if they keep going like this they will be more than BT) no one would have bothered making the switch.
They attracted customers under false pretences.
I would like someone from Ntl to step forward and give some clarity on the future, particularly on price rises.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

How the heck can they predict future price rises ????

No one knows what the internet market will be doing next week let alone next year !!!

What exactly are you trying to achieve with this thread. We know you dont like NTL that much is plain. Why do you not just move providers or switch to a broadband service. You dialup is not going to get any faster or cheaper !

... This thread is starting to make me :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Yep me too. It's sounding more and more like a UDT thread by the minute.

Re: NTL worse than BT
 

Enough.

I am totally lost as to the purpose of this thread - you seem to be going round in circles ackees and simply throwing in statements you know to be untrue just to wind people up.

Closed.