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Jerrek 19-04-2004 21:20

Job benefits
 
As an employer, I've been thinking of late what kind of benefits I can offer my employees. What kind of benefits do you want? What do you prize very highly? My goal is to make their lives as easy as possible, within reason of course.

Here are some ideas I'm considering (for the future). Keep in mind that I don't have a lot of work experience, so I don't really know what ideas are out there. I'd appreciate some feedback.


My system will definitely be the salad bar idea. I'll assign a certain value to each benefit, and you can pick from a list what you want as long as the total value doesn't exceed what is available to you. Often, instead of just pay increases, I'd offer to increase this number so that you can pick more benefits.

What benefits am I thinking? (Some of these may have a value 0 which means it will be available to all employees free of charge)


- medical, vision, and dental plans -- partial or complete coverage? Should be customizable

- life insurance

- disability insurance, both long-term and short-term

- stock options

- vacation options (special deal with hotels and resorts for company employees)

- paid holidays

- contributions to pension

- pre-tax savings programs to whichever investment plan you choose (i.e. college for your kids)

- employee assistance program

- free lunches every day

- free gym memberships

- company clubs for sports, such as football, hockey, etc.

- adoption reimbursements

- tuition reimbursements

- transportation allowances

- living allowance (help pay mortgage)

- private school allowances for children

- employee referral program

- "Fedex" service... need your laundry picked up from the dry cleaners? Need to pick up a package at the post office? We'll have someone to do it for you and bring it to your office.



Any suggestions?

Paul 19-04-2004 21:47

Re: Job benefits
 
I would choose ;

- medical, vision, and dental plans -- partial or complete coverage? Should be customizable

- paid holidays

- free lunches every day

- transportation allowances

- living allowance (help pay mortgage)

wheeliebin 19-04-2004 22:11

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek
<Snip>


As an employee i am not swayed by all these wonderfull benefits. I simply want good pay and a proper rise each year.
Payed holidays.
I want to be listened to and respected by my employers.
I want to be rewarded (not just financially for hard work and good performance)
And i want flexibility and understanding as i am a father first and foremost.


Anyone know of any firms fitting these criteria? :D

gary_580 19-04-2004 22:32

Re: Job benefits
 
consider the tax implications on each. For example in the UK if you give free lunches as in food its not taxable, if you give free lunches as in vouchers i believe it is taxable.

Provide for peoples futures and offer a pension. Gives the added benefit you get long term commitment from them to if you offer the right sort of pension.

Graham 20-04-2004 03:15

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek
As an employer, I've been thinking of late what kind of benefits I can offer my employees. What kind of benefits do you want? [...]
Any suggestions?

1) As Gary has pointed out, some benefits may have tax implications either for the business or for the employee.

Quote:

Keep in mind that I don't have a lot of work experience, so I don't really know what ideas are out there. I'd appreciate some feedback.
2) I'd ensure your business is up and running in a stable and consistent way before you start worrying about adding in extra complications.

I can't remember what you do, but what happens if demand is suddenly reduced? If someone else comes in to compete against you for your customers? Could you afford to maintain the benefits (which you may have contracturally obliged yourself to supply) given a reduced turnover?

I'm not trying to put you off, but these are things that need to be considered. I'd suggest seeing a professional business advisor.

Chris 20-04-2004 10:53

Re: Job benefits
 
It's great that you're considering these things before you even get started with having a business with employees. However, I have a (very) little experience in this area and I know that employees where I work would always choose higher wages above perks. So whatever you choose to offer, make sure you're not spending money on it that you could be putting in their wage packets instead.

As for paid holidays - that's an odd one. Presumably this is not an employment right in the US or Canada (where are you planning to live once you graduate?). Over here, it's your legal right to get 20 days paid leave a year, although some employers can sort-of get round this if they jump through enough hoops.

dr wadd 20-04-2004 11:08

Re: Job benefits
 
Some of these "benefits" seem entirely pointless to be defined as "benefits" in the first place. What's the point in having financial aid for something like transportation and the mortgage defined as a "benefit"? Why don`t you just put that money into the pay packets in the first instance?

MovedGoalPosts 20-04-2004 11:31

Re: Job benefits
 
I'd have to agree with the majority here, initially go for good salaries as the prime factor. If the salary is good enough then the employee has the choice of beneifts that they can then arrange themselves. After all, if you don't have kids, cheaper schooling offers would have no appeal, and so on.

Maybe make it easier for employees to take up certain things like pensions. In the UK employers except the smallest are now obliged to have stakeholder pension scheme access (the pension itself is run by a private fund, not the employer, as for a small firm that would be financially unreliable) - doesn't mean the employer has to contribute, just has to provide the facility for the employee to make payments.

Bottom line has to be, don't try and run before you can walk. Don't put in place something that your business cannot afford. Perhaps the biggest incentive would be "stock options" in your fledgling business especially for any key staff, to incentivise them that times are hard to start with but they, with you, reap the rewards later as the business becomes successful.

SMHarman 20-04-2004 11:45

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dr wadd
Some of these "benefits" seem entirely pointless to be defined as "benefits" in the first place. What's the point in having financial aid for something like transportation and the mortgage defined as a "benefit"? Why don`t you just put that money into the pay packets in the first instance?

Its a big US thing. With many of these benefits he is proposing the costs are deducted from your gross, not your net salary. By setting up a transport plan, you can say have $2k anually deducted from your gross to pay your season ticket, not from your net which would have been 3333 of your gross as a higher rate tax payer (UK tax rates). Similarly you can do one for medical expenses, cover your deductables, contact lens, glasses, prescription copayments and any not covered surgery (even cosmetic!) and take the cost from your gross.

This sort of benefit is a use or lose. If you don't spend the money in the tax year, the cash goes to the government, so you end up with a mad scrabble in December finding all the receipts you have forgotten to pay in so you can claim the cash before its gone forever.

I like the menu benefits options - I think the term free in a lot of this is a bit of a misnomer, at least in the UK approach, normally you sacrifice some of your cash salary for a benefit, as such there is a cost involved. This cost should be lower than the value you can purchase on the open market. Subsidised or group rate is more appropriate IMHO.

My current employeer is quiet tight on the holiday front. Whilst cash is the principal benefit, I would happily sacrifice some for an extra week off work each year. Pension benefits are important too, not to long a waiting period before you join and a healthy contribution. My current eer puts in 11% for my 3%. Thats an 11% payrise compared to not joining!

Stuartbe 20-04-2004 11:45

Re: Job benefits
 
How about free childcare ? Thats often missed out of the perks !

Flubflow 20-04-2004 12:07

Re: Job benefits
 
One important benefit is to have managers/supervisors that aren't complete TWITS (< insert a different vowel or remove the required constanant if applicable).

You know, have a promotion/recuitment policy such that you have a large proportion of real managers who have had hands on experience of the job rather than ones who have done nothing else since leaving "Manager School".
If there is one thing I used to hate when working for other people is that you were often made to feel that you must "live to work" (when most people really just work to live). If employees are to feel part of the company and if the company want to get the best out of the employee then they must be allowed to get involved if they want to and that means genuinely listening to their concerns and suggestions as a matter of policy (and perhaps being rewarded for them in some way).
It is surprising what kind of jobs some people will put up with for the sake of earning an existence on this planet but providing they are allowed to be truly happy doing it then that has to be good for everyone. Some people don't want to be deeply involved and are content to just do their time and then go home without having the feeling that they have been abused all day.

Jerrek 20-04-2004 13:13

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham
1) As Gary has pointed out, some benefits may have tax implications either for the business or for the employee.



2) I'd ensure your business is up and running in a stable and consistent way before you start worrying about adding in extra complications.

I can't remember what you do, but what happens if demand is suddenly reduced? If someone else comes in to compete against you for your customers? Could you afford to maintain the benefits (which you may have contracturally obliged yourself to supply) given a reduced turnover?

I'm aware of all of these factors...

Quote:

I'm not trying to put you off, but these are things that need to be considered. I'd suggest seeing a professional business advisor.
Well, see, I *am* the profesional business advisor... It is my major. ;)


I'm merely throwing ideas around. I don't employ anyone at this time, nor am I considering benefits until the company's net income is over a certain amount. Not in the forseeable future, for sure.

Jerrek 20-04-2004 13:28

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by towny
It's great that you're considering these things before you even get started with having a business with employees. However, I have a (very) little experience in this area and I know that employees where I work would always choose higher wages above perks. So whatever you choose to offer, make sure you're not spending money on it that you could be putting in their wage packets instead.

Well, I am very much against wages. I firmly believe in performance-based salaries. No overtime either, unless you're a drone, which I doubt I'll need. You get the job done, and I'll pay you. You do a really good job, you get a bonus. (That is assuming I don't enter the manufacturing industry, which is a little different. I'm sticking to IT for now.)

I do realize money is important, which is why I'd have an "in lieu of benefits" option. You can redeem the remaining points in cash if would rather have it that way.

Quote:

As for paid holidays - that's an odd one. Presumably this is not an employment right in the US or Canada (where are you planning to live once you graduate?). Over here, it's your legal right to get 20 days paid leave a year, although some employers can sort-of get round this if they jump through enough hoops.
That greatly depends on the province/state that the employment is in. In Ontario, it is 14 days after one year of employment. (20 is a lot...) I don't plan on remaining in Ontario due to the taxes and all the crap laws (like that one). Will probably move to Texas or Oklahoma.

Jerrek 20-04-2004 13:31

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuartbe
How about free childcare ? Thats often missed out of the perks !

Yes I did forget about that. I'll add it to the list. All also add parental care for employeers whose parents are old and have special needs.

Chris 20-04-2004 13:40

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek
That greatly depends on the province/state that the employment is in. In Ontario, it is 14 days after one year of employment. (20 is a lot...) I don't plan on remaining in Ontario due to the taxes and all the crap laws (like that one). Will probably move to Texas or Oklahoma.

20 days isn't considered generous in the UK, as it includes public holidays, of which there are 8 in each year. That means you are only entitled to 12 days on top of what you can expect as a matter of custom.

In practice many people do rather better - it's not uncommon for an employee to have 20 days paid leave, plus the eight public holday days, adding up to 28. If you get into management, you would normally have 25 + 8. In my current job I have 25 + 8 + 1 for five years' service.

Scarlett 20-04-2004 13:54

Re: Job benefits
 
Personally I'd go for Flexability in hours where possible and I would also suggest that you consider paying some form of overtime (or at least time off in liue for extra hours worked).

As much as you might want to have your guys and gals in the office for there hours each week, there will be times when you all have to pull a couple of late shifts to get things done in time.

Stock-options, If you want to give them, feel free but I wouldn't really class them as a benifit, rather a bonus that may or may not pay out in the future.

Paid holiday and Pensions, Oh yes please and more of them. I know that you said that 20 Days paid holiday a year sounds a bit high but if you offer more than the legal minimum then your (prospective) Co is already offering people something worth moving jobs for. If you offer an extra days hol for staying with company for 3 years and maybe another after 5, you'll also encourage people to want to stay on.

Russ 20-04-2004 13:59

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by towny
20 days isn't considered generous in the UK, as it includes public holidays, of which there are 8 in each year.

Not only is that not considered generous, in most companies it's considered standard.

Jerrek 20-04-2004 14:10

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by towny
20 days isn't considered generous in the UK, as it includes public holidays, of which there are 8 in each year. That means you are only entitled to 12 days on top of what you can expect as a matter of custom.

We have 8 too, but I believe it is excluded from the 14 days. It is very subjective depending on the provincial or state legislation.

Quote:

In practice many people do rather better - it's not uncommon for an employee to have 20 days paid leave, plus the eight public holday days, adding up to 28. If you get into management, you would normally have 25 + 8. In my current job I have 25 + 8 + 1 for five years' service.
I'll figure out a program. I just don't want to be forced by law to do something. It is the principle that annoys me.

Jerrek 20-04-2004 14:17

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarlett
Personally I'd go for Flexability in hours where possible

Job sharing, telecommuting, and flexhours are nice-to-have things which I hope to make standard practice.

Quote:

and I would also suggest that you consider paying some form of overtime (or at least time off in liue for extra hours worked

As much as you might want to have your guys and gals in the office for there hours each week, there will be times when you all have to pull a couple of late shifts to get things done in time.
For sure, but all my employees will be classified as management. I'm a fan of performance-based pay, not time-based. I doubt I'll pay for overtime in my current businesses. If you don't like it, leave. I will pay bonuses though.

Quote:

Stock-options, If you want to give them, feel free but I wouldn't really class them as a benifit, rather a bonus that may or may not pay out in the future.
This will be standard, not a form of compensation really, since you still have to buy it. I might, as a form of compensation, issue stock to the employee. It really depends what they want.

Xaccers 20-04-2004 14:40

Re: Job benefits
 
Car and fuel allowance (beats having a company car as should you lose your job, you still have transport)
Dental insurance for definite, medical is nice but dental is morelikely to be used (hence why our penny pinching company gives us medical but not dental. ntl gave us both *sigh*)
enough pay to be able to throw a fair bit into a pension with the company adding a fair amount itself (final salary pension would be nice too)
enough job security to make it worthwhile putting money into a company pension. Lots of youngsters today don't see the point of throwing money away for a year or two if they're not going to get much of a benifit.

MovedGoalPosts 20-04-2004 15:16

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by towny
20 days isn't considered generous in the UK, as it includes public holidays, of which there are 8 in each year. That means you are only entitled to 12 days on top of what you can expect as a matter of custom.

In practice many people do rather better - it's not uncommon for an employee to have 20 days paid leave, plus the eight public holday days, adding up to 28. If you get into management, you would normally have 25 + 8. In my current job I have 25 + 8 + 1 for five years' service.

I'd go so far as to say that to 20 days paid + statutory holidays is now the absolute minimum, unless you are on short term contracts or temping. In fact 25 days is not uncommon. Better still work for a local authority, as my father did (might have changed now but I doubt it) something like 20 days basic holiday, plus flexitime of one day a month (so you made up the hours but the basic working day seemed so short you that it wwas hardly a strain), then extra holidays for time served, somthing like a day per year for first 10 years. It seemed like he was off work more than he was there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek
That greatly depends on the province/state that the employment is in. In Ontario, it is 14 days after one year of employment. (20 is a lot...) I don't plan on remaining in Ontario due to the taxes and all the crap laws (like that one). Will probably move to Texas or Oklahoma.

Just count your lucky stars that as an employer you have that flexibility. Sign up for the EU gravy train and the amount of red tape on businesses that are forced to bend over backwards it's a wonder there are any businesses.

Jerrek 20-04-2004 16:47

Re: Job benefits
 
Which is one reason why I would never live in Europe, except perhaps the UK, and then only if I'm working FOR someone. I don't want to work for someone unless it is a CEO or COO position, and I hate red tape. I'm not a slave driver, and I don't need the government to tell me the nitty gritty details.

Chris 20-04-2004 16:54

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek
Which is one reason why I would never live in Europe, except perhaps the UK, and then only if I'm working FOR someone. I don't want to work for someone unless it is a CEO or COO position, and I hate red tape. I'm not a slave driver, and I don't need the government to tell me the nitty gritty details.

Jerrek, it really isn't so dreadful as you think. Yes, there might be a lot more regulation here than you are used to, but we still manage to be one of the biggest economies in the world and as I have said before, there are a whole pile of factors other than the extent to which economies are regulated that have allowed the US to grow so much larger than the rest.

Jerrek 20-04-2004 17:02

Re: Job benefits
 
I refuse to deal with unions. :D My employees will not be unionized, ever. I'll carefully screen them to make sure I hire capitalists and not pinkos. I find those to work harder. ;) :pp

Russ 20-04-2004 17:06

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek
I refuse to deal with unions. :D My employees will not be unionized, ever.

You wouldn't last 5 minutes over here :)

Chris 21-04-2004 10:08

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek
I refuse to deal with unions. :D My employees will not be unionized, ever. I'll carefully screen them to make sure I hire capitalists and not pinkos. I find those to work harder. ;) :pp

Yep, they work harder for less cash, so you get rich off their hard work. Very equitable. Once again you can't see the possibility of some middle ground in between pure Capitalism and pure Communism. You're going to come very badly unstuck if you resolve only to employ capitalists of the Ayn Rand kind. You will find, like extremists of all colours, that they are in a small minority. Most of us are normal people, and we come in varying shades of grey.

Re your point about refusing Trade Union recognition - as one of 'Thatcher's Children' I would be the first to agree with you that they can be a complete pain. My exposure to trade unions while growing up was, principally, the coal miners' strike of 1984 (led by Arthur Scargill - a real leftie). You can imagine that many middle-class people of my age (turning 31 this month!) have a very negative view of unions. But, like it or not, a properly regulated trade union movement is a democratic thing. Many employers in the UK actually prefer to deal with trade unions as it makes the whole employee relations thing a lot easier. A previous employer of mine even offered, as a benefit of employment, to pay my membership fees if I chose to join a 'professional or trade association'.

Jerrek 21-04-2004 13:43

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by towny
Yep, they work harder for less cash, so you get rich off their hard work.

Obviously because I don't do any work.

Quote:

Very equitable. Once again you can't see the possibility of some middle ground in between pure Capitalism and pure Communism. You're going to come very badly unstuck if you resolve only to employ capitalists of the Ayn Rand kind. You will find, like extremists of all colours, that they are in a small minority. Most of us are normal people, and we come in varying shades of grey.
I don't consider Ayn Rand extremist. We would just consider her right. Middle ground for me is radical right for you. I will be sure to hire strictly from the Republican Party or Libertarian Party or equivalent. I don't expect everyone to be Ayn Rand.

Quote:

Re your point about refusing Trade Union recognition - as one of 'Thatcher's Children' I would be the first to agree with you that they can be a complete pain. My exposure to trade unions while growing up was, principally, the coal miners' strike of 1984 (led by Arthur Scargill - a real leftie). You can imagine that many middle-class people of my age (turning 31 this month!) have a very negative view of unions. But, like it or not, a properly regulated trade union movement is a democratic thing. Many employers in the UK actually prefer to deal with trade unions as it makes the whole employee relations thing a lot easier. A previous employer of mine even offered, as a benefit of employment, to pay my membership fees if I chose to join a 'professional or trade association'.
I however, choose to deal with the employees themselves. I have no desire for collective bargaining. There is no more need today for unions with all the laws regarding safety and working conditions. And since this is a democratic country, like you said, I can opt not to deal with one.



I'll also do things: 10% of my net profit will go to my church. I firmly believe in giving a tithe. Significant donations will be made to several right-of-center parties and Christian charities. The work place will be very strongly oriented towards the Republican or Conservative party, with easy to use forms for employees to make contributions.

I have some other ideas too, but I need to think them through. :)

ian@huth 21-04-2004 14:38

Re: Job benefits
 
With all the will in the world and your refusal to deal with trade unions there will probably come a time that you do something that your entire workforce disagrees with. What will you do then if your entire workforce decide to collectively bargain with you on the issue?

SMHarman 21-04-2004 15:07

Re: Job benefits
 
However we are talking a professional service firm. I'm sure the entire workforce of Ernst and Young or PwC or Linklaters disagree with their emploers on some matters, however there is no collective bargining availible there.

Chris 21-04-2004 15:12

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SMHarman
However we are talking a professional service firm. I'm sure the entire workforce of Ernst and Young or PwC or Linklaters disagree with their emploers on some matters, however there is no collective bargining availible there.

'Divide and rule' is an easier principle to implement in a large organisation like PwC than it is going to be in Jerrek's firm - which, unless he comes up with an unusually big idea is likely to number only a few employees for at least its first few years. Jerrek may not formally recognise a trade union but if his small band of wage slaves gang up on him he will be forced to recognise it. If he doesn't, he could threaten to sack them (which would be huis right), but losing your entire workforce overnight is a sure way to delay (or even prevent) delivery to your customers, and guess what happens then...

SMHarman 21-04-2004 15:18

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by towny
'Divide and rule' is an easier principle to implement in a large organisation like PwC than it is going to be in Jerrek's firm - which, unless he comes up with an unusually big idea is likely to number only a few employees for at least its first few years. Jerrek may not formally recognise a trade union but if his small band of wage slaves gang up on him he will be forced to recognise it. If he doesn't, he could threaten to sack them (which would be huis right), but losing your entire workforce overnight is a sure way to delay (or even prevent) delivery to your customers, and guess what happens then...

But the need for unionisation of a small group of IT professionals, or the need to recognise a union is unlikely to be necessary.

Unionisation works best where you have large groups of (and I hate to use the word) 'commodity' employees, bank tellers, packers, call centre ee's with whom union negotiation should be a more effective way of managing the ee's. This assumes that the Union and the Eer are both working with similar goals in mind. Where these ee's are not unionised then they are the ones most likely to get screwed. Take the HSBC cleaners for example.

http://icthewharf.icnetwork.co.uk/th...name_page.html

dr wadd 21-04-2004 15:21

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek
The work place will be very strongly oriented towards the Republican or Conservative party, with easy to use forms for employees to make contributions.

Of course, you would more than likely also have to put such forms in place so that employees could make "easy" donations to the Republicans, otherwise you have instigated discrimination in the work place.

Chris 21-04-2004 15:34

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dr wadd
Of course, you would more than likely also have to put such forms in place so that employees could make "easy" donations to the Republicans, otherwise you have instigated discrimination in the work place.

Assuming you mean Democrats - I don't think Jerrek has any scruples about discriminating against them.

dr wadd 21-04-2004 15:41

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by towny
Assuming you mean Democrats - I don't think Jerrek has any scruples about discriminating against them.

Damn your eagle eyes. ;)

I did indeed mean Democrats, and I can well believe that Jerrek wouldn`t have any problem with that form of discrimination, but that doesn`t mean that the employment laws would look on it in the same light. I don`t know about over there, but you more than likely couldn`t get away with it over here.

Jerrek 21-04-2004 16:29

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SMHarman
But the need for unionisation of a small group of IT professionals, or the need to recognise a union is unlikely to be necessary.

Unionisation works best where you have large groups of (and I hate to use the word) 'commodity' employees, bank tellers, packers, call centre ee's with whom union negotiation should be a more effective way of managing the ee's. This assumes that the Union and the Eer are both working with similar goals in mind. Where these ee's are not unionised then they are the ones most likely to get screwed. Take the HSBC cleaners for example.

http://icthewharf.icnetwork.co.uk/th...name_page.html

Less than 14% of people in the United States are unionized, and that includes the socialist north-east. Do you really think the IT sector have unions? Unlikely. Besides, I'll treat my employees as equals and I'll make them happy. Happy employees work harder, which means my company(ies) do better.

Jerrek 21-04-2004 16:30

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dr wadd
Of course, you would more than likely also have to put such forms in place so that employees could make "easy" donations to the Republicans, otherwise you have instigated discrimination in the work place.

I'm not discriminating against anyone, nor am I preventing anyone from exercising any legal rights. I can make whatever forms available to my employees that I want.

dr wadd 21-04-2004 16:43

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek
I'm not discriminating against anyone, nor am I preventing anyone from exercising any legal rights. I can make whatever forms available to my employees that I want.

But if you don`t make those forms available for use, regardless of where the political financing ends up heading, then that is a form of discrimination, as essentially you are getting assistance if your political opinions happen to coincide with yours. Now, even I would not necessarily argue that this is a form of discrimination that is particularly worth worrying about, and as I said, discrimination law over there is probably different to here, but in the UK you probably wouldn`t get away with it.

Surely there's no harm in checking that you are going to get bitten by a litigious employee somewhere down the road?

Jerrek 21-04-2004 16:56

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dr wadd
But if you don`t make those forms available for use, regardless of where the political financing ends up heading, then that is a form of discrimination,

Not really. We only consider discrimination based on sex, race, religion, and disibilities.

If I put down forms for 5 charities, I don't have to put forms down for all 70,000 charities in Canada. That would be stupid and impractical.

Quote:

as essentially you are getting assistance if your political opinions happen to coincide with yours.
Absolutely, just like if I prove only forms for the Heart and Stroke Foundation and the Asthma society, I'm doing the same thing. Nothing wrong with it.

ian@huth 21-04-2004 16:57

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek
Less than 14% of people in the United States are unionized, and that includes the socialist north-east. Do you really think the IT sector have unions? Unlikely. Besides, I'll treat my employees as equals and I'll make them happy. Happy employees work harder, which means my company(ies) do better.

That all sounds nice and easy the way that you put it Jerrek but don't forget that your employees will be human beings with the human traits of jealousy and greed. You may see a vision of what your company will be like at the moment but will that vision remain the same in the future? You will be influenced by people around you, wife, partner, children, employees, customers, suppliers, etc and will their hopes and expectations be the same as yours?

dr wadd 21-04-2004 17:07

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek
Not really. We only consider discrimination based on sex, race, religion, and disibilities.

Then that is different to the legal situation in the UK (potentially). Over here, you are not allowed to discriminate on the grounds of "religion, religious belief or similar philosophical belief", amongst many other things. There has not yet been a test case, as far as I know, there is currently a grey area as to whether political alignment comes under the remit of "philosophical belief." If such an issue does come to court, it will be interesting to see what the outcome is.

Jerrek 21-04-2004 18:29

Re: Job benefits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ianathuth
That all sounds nice and easy the way that you put it Jerrek but don't forget that your employees will be human beings with the human traits of jealousy and greed. You may see a vision of what your company will be like at the moment but will that vision remain the same in the future? You will be influenced by people around you, wife, partner, children, employees, customers, suppliers, etc and will their hopes and expectations be the same as yours?

What are you saying and how is it relevant to the discussion?


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