Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

I see that Thames Trains have been fined £2m for the Paddington train crash in which 31 people died.

But what does £2m mean in practice? For you or me a lot, but for a major company - it is moderately significant at the worst.

And who pays it? The company directors from their personal accounts? No way! It comes from the company funds and they will make it up by cutting services or sacking a few staff.

Have any Thames Trains Directors been forced to leave (without a golden handshake)? Not that I know of.

So, what is the point of the whole charade? I'm not really sure. At the best, I suppose that it will make some of the grieving relatives feel that something has been done.

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

can you put a price on 1 life?

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

And how do you think they're going to pay that fine? Not by cutting back, I can tell you.

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

that's a good point...i don;t think you can put a price on life...

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

just about to post that, i dont think it will affect then majorly, a short term cut back here and there should do it :rolleyes:

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

some of them should be jailed for corporate manslaughter

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

Actually Thames (or rather the Go-Ahead Group, which ran it) has been stripped of its franchise, which will be merged with Great Western, under the control of First Group. So they've been hit in the pocket by the HSE and the SRA. I'd like to see the managers responsible for ignoring the warnings on signal design in the area called to account though (remember Southall two years before was also part-caused by poor signal design on the same resignalling scheme. The railway company that ballsed up then? Great Western, who were fined £1.5m).

Go-Ahead still runs (jointly in some cases) the South Central and Thameslink franchises.

http://www.thamestrains.co.uk/ now has a placeholder announcing the transfer to FGW.

In case you're wondering who pays, I'm not sure. It should be Go-Ahead as the franchise owners at the time, rather than FGW, who were actually the innocent party at Ladbroke Grove (their train was proceeding under clear signals when the Thames train hit it head on after going through a red). I'd be interested in knowing who actually forks out. All the news organisations are saying Thames, which doesn't really exist any more. BBC transport news standards are hilariously bad.

Sometimes you have to put a price on a life. If you're choosing to spend an amount of money on a safety scheme which will save 2 lives per year or one which will save 4 lives per year, clearly the cost per life saved for the second scheme is greater, which is why you should choose it. This analogy explains why TPWS is actually a good idea (for stopping trains at red lights anyway).

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

You cannot really blame anyone. Someone made a mistake and that led to a depth but that can happen to anyone.

You could make a mistake tommorow anything from littering! e.g. you cannot be bothered to put your coke can in a bin so you throw it on the floor, then a old women slips on it and falls down some stairs. Should you be done for manslaugter?

Its not the same thing but blaming managers or companys gets you no-where.

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

Should we merge this into the railway nationalisation thread? It all sort of seems linked?

Just a thought... :)

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

I see what you mean towny, however I think a merge now would become too messy with the time of posts from both threads. :)

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

Agree with you.
No money can replace a life.
2 million is nothing to a huge company.

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

There is a difference between an honest mistake/ unavoidable accident and negligence. As I recall, in this instance, the red light the commuter train went through was badly sited and hard to see. This was documented and had been reported to managers of several occasions but they did nothing about it. That makes this accident a negligent act by the management (not the driver) as they knew about it and if they had re-sited the red light i'm sure this terrible accident would have been avoided.

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

Remember it was a fine and not a compensation payment.

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

Good point gary.

The amount should be the same irrespective of the number of casualties or if there had been no casualties.

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

Thought this extract from BBKings post on the other thread was worth posting here.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...ad.php?t=10456

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

I'd thought i'd wade in. Jezza Clarkson put it best. When you fine companies, it has a negative effect in the long run. Fines like this DO hurt copmpanies, and they have to respond by cutting even more costs and putting up prices to try and stay afloat. This means everytime you fine a company the situation gets worse.

He said a better punishment would be to make the board members walk through Central London naked during the day so everyone can point and laugh at their tackle :)

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

It makes sense - in this case it becomes a bit of a farce as the company is state subsidised and the fine goes to the state - a bit circular.

What did Mr. C say this in reference to?

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

In most cases like this, the fine is just like an extra stamp of guilt, showing that they were at fault.
It's like when people sue a hospital for screwing up and killing their child.
They aren't doing it for the money, it won't bring their child back, but it says to the world that the hospital did screw up.

Re: Is £2m pounds enough for 31 lives?
 

Very true. Until you hit the senior management of the companies concerned nothing will happen. Of course, if you're pessimistic, what could actually happen is that senior management would become extremely cautious and the amount of money spent on safety would soar and the companies would cease making any profits whatsover.

I dunno. I think I'll start travelling by sedan chair.