Smart meters
 

I don't know how many of our members have smart meters fitted, gas and electric, We have one for the lecky and I thought I'd share:

It's electric and I've checked it's values against my own NAMAS traceable monitor and the readings seen to be Kosher, what really pisses me off is the consumer display unit: It constantly resets and displays just about everything except what I want it to ( Current watts). I just got fed up with it and dumped it uncharged and dead in the lecky cupboard.

I know what things take round me, if it makes heat it costs money.

What are members experiences?

Re: Smart meters
 

I had electric and gas ones installed just a few months ago. If it keeps losing the connection, place it nearer the meters. The current usage in watts is likely to be there on the optional displays. It was there for me.



The thing to watch out for in assessing current usage is that items such as fridges, freezers, immersion heaters can suddenly start up. That would give a false current usage in watts.

Re: Smart meters
 

i keep turning down the offers to fit them.

Re: Smart meters
 

You won't have that choice in time.

Re: Smart meters
 

Until there is no charge for having one and they are all guaranteed to work as a smart meter with any supplier you may switch to, I will not be getting either.

Re: Smart meters
 

Our neighbours had the leccy one fitted (no gas supply) after being told they were free now, but eventually would be fitted for a fee. And if they didn't have one, they would be charged an annual meter-reading fee. All rubbish of course. At the moment.

Those in the know understand a hidden reason the companies want them fitted for leccy... a thing called Power Factor. In the simplest of terms. electricity companies have to send more power down the wires to compensate for waveform changes caused by non-resistive loads in the users' home or place of work. In the future, smart meters will allow them to charge for that "lost power".

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The newer versions are meant to be more compatible.

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Do the smart ass meters need electricity to take the readings and send the signal to the supplier or are they using my lecy to run their meters and my wifi.

Re: Smart meters
 

Me too.

Re: Smart meters
 

We have one. We never look at it. If we need to use an electrical item or turn on the gas, then we have to use it. Makes no odds having a smart meter there.

I think they were brought in in the hope that it would make people more conscious about how much they use, energy-wise. As though people would play a game against themselves to see how little they could use in a day. But I think it hasn't turned out they way the energy firms / government had hoped. I think the number of people who actually try to play that game are so few that the cost of each house running a smart meter probably more than cancels it out!

Re: Smart meters
 

Same here.

Re: Smart meters
 

We had a scheduled power outage of an hour or so. Next door were away on holiday. When they came home, their fridge and freezer were minging as the smart meter did not turn the power back on after the outage.

I'm not sure if this was a fault, or how these meters work.

Re: Smart meters
 

Battery operated. I asked at the time because the guy was measuring up lengths of cable. That was to upgrade the existing meter cabling. Water meters also function via a battery and they don't have an electric supply to feed off.

Re: Smart meters
 

mine is mains run.

Re: Smart meters
 

We were loaned an energy use monitor by a local energy efficiency charity some years ago (which they never asked to get back). For a little while it was interesting seeing which appliances used what, but after a while it was boring... we only turn things on when we need them anyway, so it made no difference to us. From that perspective I’m in no hurry to get my hands on the remote screen that’s meant to sit in the house. It’s a waste of space, a waste of a socket and a waste of electricity. As for the actual meter itself, well we’ll get one when we have to, but I won’t be surprised if we turn out to be in a signal dead spot, and so still have to submit readings ourselves...

Re: Smart meters
 

We pay for the electric used to run the monitoring unit if that's what you mean, that's why I disconnected it. Like Chris, electricity isn't wasted here anyway.

Re: Smart meters
 

Haven't had them fitted yet because they're not offering weekend appointments. Whilst i work from home I cannot be without an internet connection so doing them during the week is out of the question. especially as they can't give definitive appt times just morning or afternoon

Re: Smart meters
 

I'd beware that suppliers still have stock of V1 meters that may not work with other suppliers and are trying to get rid of them.

They may also measure our Solar PV export and we could lose out. Our current meters don't register exported electricity so we get half generated even if we use all we generate (this is on top of the FIT payment). We could also win if we do export more but we try to run heavier loads in the morning when the solar "system" is running at best.

Re: Smart meters
 

I set the unit to display watts but after a while it will completely reset, do a display test, then re-pair with the main meter and then displays usage today in £. There is a signal strength display shows 3 bars out of 5 so I don't think that's why it resets.


It's actually in the same room as the freezer and fridge so I know when they startup As I say I have my own monitor unit and they agree to the last watt.

It's something that they don't tell you about on the electric ones: There's a main contactor in the box that can shut off the electricity remotely. Currently there are "no plans" to use this to remotely cut off the supply to people who don't pay their bills.

Re: Smart meters
 

Re: Smart meters
 

... and here.

Re: Smart meters
 

Ditto.

Until the day I am forced into it, I will refuse to have one.

Re: Smart meters
 

This is the one fitted here. It's badged as Aclara but is actually made by GE. (Labelled SGC1311)

I have yet to find the instructions on how to access the extra measurement features on the main display. (Such as VA, VAR and Power factor) According to the data sheet these are registered internally. There are two buttons (A and B) on the front but only A seems to rotate between several screens. I guess there's some secret button combination and timing to unlock the additional displays.

My own energy monitor reports these to the PC via a Modbus link (RS485). In addition line voltage, line frequency and load current. Updated 10 times a second.

The only advantage the smart meter really offers me is no estimated bills.

Re: Smart meters
 

I think the emphasis is meant to be on how much it costs rather than how many KWh. That will be why the default display is in £, as that is easier to understand on a day-to-day basis.


If the freezer is frost-free then it could be in a defrost phase where the heating element melts the frosted water build-up.

We have one on our water meter that just transmits the current reading when the guy is here.....

Thankfully the power company IS NOT FORCING ELECTRIC SMART METERS.... They are not good (health risk) and a privacy risk!! (They can control what power YOU USE (If you have any smart appliances) and they dont have a right to do that if your paying the bill)

Power company said no one will ever be forced into getting one..... I have heard alot of power companies ARE TRYING TO which is quite sad.............

Re: Smart meters
 

My SWALEC Gas bill today..
I hope that refers to prepayment meters and not a bl**dy smart one !!!

Re: Smart meters
 

The meter itself is mains run but takes its power BEFORE the measuring components of the meter so you won't pay for the energy the meter uses to communicate with your supplier.

You will pay for the energy that the display that plugs into the wall uses.

Re: Smart meters
 

That'll be the POS that I dumped in the meter cupboard, unpowered to die.

Re: Smart meters
 

Any forcing is because they're supposed to be universal by 2020, perhaps there will be penalty charges for the suppliers who don't meet this impossible target :D

They couldn't fit one to my place when I foolishly applied a few years ago because my mobile signal is non existent and their device couldn't phone home (I use a signal box booster so I get a phone signal) but the installer pointed out, whilst I may have, when I move the next person may not and then their machine won't work so no install, thankfully as I've since changed my view and will stay with a 'thick' as opposed to a 'smart' meter.

Additionally the early adopters have found out or will (and we're talking thousands of installs here) that their lovely smart meter will turn thick if they ever switch supplier :D

Because the things were rolled out before the technology was mature.

SMETS1 is the thing to check for if you have one or want one, this won't be smart come switchover time.
SMETS2 is a newer standard and this will allow a switch and remain smart.


All a bit of a joke really.

Very good..... RESISTANCE IS THE ONLY WAY!!!

Re: Smart meters
 

I had an email from eon a few days ago saying..... we need to change your meters, if you don't want it changed yet please call them.

So as usual the email goes in the bin and I have no intention of wasting my time calling them.

Re: Smart meters
 

they're coming for your meters and you know it ! head in the sand not to call if you don't want it happening.

Go for the small companies, they've never bothered me about smart meters, or ever read the meters coming to think about it...

Yes call them straight away!!!!!!

They will sneak over when you arent home and do it!!!

Re: Smart meters
 

They're persistent, just had yet another email...... into the bin it goes.

Re: Smart meters
 

I've read that they are working on a new software download to make the first version useable with all suppliers in the same way that version 2 is.

Re: Smart meters
 

I don't know if it's a software update but both buttons on our smart meter are suddenly now working and I can navigate the menus to get all the readings needed. Consumption is "Import KWh". Button "B" selects the main menu and button "A" rotates through the displays.

The remote display is still a POS and remains discharged and dumped in the cupboard. Utterly useless.

Nobody from the utility company (EDF) has ever got back to me to ask if the smart meter is of any use.

And I still get estimated bills. :mad:

A pointless exercise. :rolleyes:

Re: Smart meters
 

I am getting fortnightly letters: "We have arranged to have your SMART meter fitted in a week's time. Please call to change the installation date if it is not suitable".

So each time I call and tell them I do not want one.

Re: Smart meters
 

TBQH Taf you don't want this POS in your house. If you want to monitor your energy use go for a third party piece of kit.

I happen to be working on a project with this kit and I have a prototype installed here so I can see the details of our consumption.

Re: Smart meters
 

Same here just chuck em in the bin,they have even started texting me [never give them your number] .

Re: Smart meters
 

I’ve been at the same address for 15 years and never been asked to have one. I tend to use smaller energy providers but even when one went bust and got taken over by the co-op, I stuck with them a couple of years and still wasn’t offered one. Not that I’m complaining. A local charity lent me an energy monitor about 10 years ago (and never asked for it back), so I have long ago established where the wasteful energy use in my house is likely to be, and taken steps to deal with it. I don’t need, or want, an energy readout cluttering up my surfaces and occupying a power socket I can use for something else.

Re: Smart meters
 

Eon bombarded me with emails, letters and phone calls going back years, i just ignored i won't have a smart meter until i legally have to have one.

I have just changed to Bulb Energy and so far they haven't asked me to get 1 installed luckily!

Re: Smart meters
 

Exactly, if it makes heat then it costs. Not rocket science. My particular interest was whether they were billing you for KVAr or KWHr with the smart meters. There is a difference if you have freezers and fridges.

It's kWhr for anybody who's interested, as was with the old rotating disk wattmeters.

Re: Smart meters
 

Since getting our own home I have recorded our meter readings every Sunday. Back to 2nd August 1987.

Red = gas
Blue = gas average for the year
Green = electricty
Yellow= electricity average over the year

I wonder if you spot when our twins were born...

Re: Smart meters
 

Dedicated graph, but every Sunday since 1987, don't you go on vacation? :)

Out of interest who is your provider?

Re: Smart meters
 

Last holiday was in 2005, such is the life of a Carer. And the only thing running was the freezer, so it was a case of dividing the reading by two on return. Accurate enough.

We've been with SWALEC (SSE) for many years, the best deal we can get around here. Sure, some start-ups have offered to save us about £20 a year, but then they required £60 to leave them.

The new government "cap" on bills has actually cost us dearly as discounts were stripped from the tariffs. And now it's fairly impossible to find the cheapest due to the vagaries of the "cap" and it's variabilty.

---------- Post added at 10:43 ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 ----------

Incidentally how do gas SMART meters give an accurate cost display? The formula involves the calorific value which changes often, so do they also receive the latest values over the airwaves?

Re: Smart meters
 

We've had a smart meter fitted and our electricity usage has increased by 50%. My wife has daily figures back over many years, gas, electricity and solar generation.

On the day of installation we had a huge peak (15kWh). Our normal usage over the weeks before and after the installation date was around 6kWh rising to 9kWh since installation.

We've had a electrician check the wiring but British Gas don't seem to interested. Pass me from smart meter tech support to billing to solar FIT (not their problem) and so on. They will check meter but will charge me if it's OK.

Apparently the installer told my wife the meter now monitors all usage. If it measures power we use from the solar panels it 1)shouldn't or 2)should have mechanism to subtract export from generated and take that off our bills. This latter would need to be done when we send in the FIT reading but from last payment they are still estimating the export.

Re: Smart meters
 

You should try Bulb, put in your usage and see what it comes back with for a simple quote, they give you £50 if you signup, they may even pay leaving fees if you have any, it is saves you money then it is worth it in my opinion, no hassle switching you don't even have to contact your old supplier.

Re: Smart meters
 

There was a feature last week on R4 "You and Yours" consumer programme and several people with solar panels were being charged for their own generation as if it were being supplied from the grid.

This was down to the configuration of the smart meter being incorrect.

You want to get/loan an energy monitor. My one just plugs into a socket and there's a clip on current transformer that you just pop on one of the meter tails. Then you can compare the readings with the smart meter to see if it's working correctly.

The meter menus have an "import" KWHr (from the grid) and an "export" KWHr (Your generation being supplied to the grid) This is accessed on the front of the actual meter itself using the A and B buttons

Re: Smart meters
 

But if we are using from solar panels won't that still show? The meter could be right, we are using 9kWh but 3 of those are from the panels so shouldn't be charged.

Re: Smart meters
 

The power that you use from your panels doesn't pass through the meter. Only the surplus power that is returned to the grid passes through the meter (backwards) as you are paid a different rate to that which you consume. Hence there being separate import and export totalisers

Before smart meters the old analog rotating disc meters would actually run backwards when you were generating more than you consumed. Your bill/credit would reflect your overall balance whereas with the smart meter the two values are separate allowing more complex billing/credits

Re: Smart meters
 

I was asked to arrange installation a few years ago, and I just binned the letter - never been contacted again since. I have no intention of getting one.

Re: Smart meters
 

There was another piece on You and Yours about older smart meters. Specifically Siemens that had been configured to sum import and export and bill the user for the combined total. This (apparently) was to fox people who try to fiddle with their meter to get free electricity.

It's fine until solar panels are fitted then you get billed for exported electricity instead of paid for.

@tweetiepoo Have a look at the brand of smart meter, you may be in the same situation.

The programme was on from 12:20 today and the piece was in the last 10 minutes or so.

Re: Smart meters
 

I've found that a lot of the energy companies will only offer the best tariffs if you agree to have a smart meter fitted.

Re: Smart meters
 

Stick to the smaller companies, they are under less of an obligation to fit them, and also offer the cheapest tariffs.

Re: Smart meters
 

And go bust...

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...bust-year.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/money/...-a9103346.html

Re: Smart meters
 

So what? Your supply isn't interrupted and you just move onto the next cheapest supplier. Happened to me twice and it was no hassle, you've still being paid less than you would of which is all important. Isn't privatisation wonderful ? ;)

Re: Smart meters
 

Having been getting estimated bills I've checked with EDF and apparently the signal strength is too low to allow the meter to send up to date billing info.

Don't believe that for an instant as we're in town and the mobile shows a full 5 segments.

So as well as the remote display unit being a total POS the meter is useless as well. :rolleyes:

I asked about the total absence of information anywhere about how to drive the menus on the meter and they're feeding that back to the smart meter team.

Honestly I can find the OEM's meter outline data sheet (GE 1310 but made under licence in China), the CE certification, FCC compliance but how to drive the POS: Nothing.

Re: Smart meters
 

I can't see the point of smart meters, it isn't going to save me money i just provide a meter reading to Bulb when i feel like it, Bulb even emailed me saying the price of their Gas has gone down and i will save £50 a year and suggested i reduced my payments to £.... but they won't do it for me, the point being i prefer to be in control.

Re: Smart meters
 

We just try to minimise energy use, be it lecky or gas. The smart meter does nothing useful that turning off a switch doesn't.

Re: Smart meters
 

So true did you have to have it or did you ask for one, surely it costs to run the meter even if its batteries you have to buy?

I bet the meter doesn't make you use less electricity or gas?

Re: Smart meters
 

I still feel that the ulterior motive is to allow companies to charge different tariffs at different times of the day or week.

Higher rates during peak demand periods, lower at night and the weekends.

The meters will show that you are on a different tariff so pushing users to change their usage characteristics. A but like the old Economy 7 system, but without separate sockets.

Re: Smart meters
 

There will be no smart meter at my hourse until the law forces me.

Ive somehow managed to survive without one for 30+ years, I think I manage ok.

Re: Smart meters
 

They're not that smart at all, we've had one for about 6 months (not my idea but her indoors, you know how it is) . . . anyway, in all that time it hasn't picked a winning horse :(

Re: Smart meters
 

Well since our meter was fitted our usage has increased from 1800kWh/year to over 3000kWh/year. They tested the meter and it was reading 10% high so replaced, the new one could be worse but we need more sunny days to get comparable readings to past (wife has daily reading from grid/gas/SPV generation for last 8 years or so).

Re: Smart meters
 

The electricity one is powered from the company side so you don't pay for its consumption. Don't know about the gas smart meter as we still have a traditional one.

No difference, we use what we need and just minimise. For example I have a 2Kw main oven and a smaller 1.3Kw worktop oven/grill which I use unless the food is too big to go in it. Only then do I use the larger one.

Re: Smart meters
 

We have found that unless you have your electricity and Gas points near to each other they cant install both so we only have a smart meter for the electricity, not the gas.
They cant communicate.



The in home display panel has been helpful for seeing how much everything costs, especially since getting a mighty big fish tank in the house.

Re: Smart meters
 

Nothing to do with the smart meter, RCD probably tripped when the power went back on due to surges; that’s the problem with the current IET regs where all circuits have RCDs

Good for you mate.......

Alot of people who have these ARE SEEING HIGHER BILLS!!

Remember: These are not to help the consumer,THEY ARE TO HELP THEM!!!!!!!!

Re: Smart meters
 

All trips were ON, it was just the smart meter that had failed to reset. It took an techie visit to get it to work again.

Re: Smart meters
 

Can't imagine there are going to be many meters inspected in the coming months. They'll just have to rely on our non smart honesty ;)

Re: Smart meters
 

I read mine every month, takes all of 5 minutes, not really a hardship.

Re: Smart meters
 

I also read mine every month I don't want any of this smart meter bollocks, I want to be in control and that is very very easy with Bulb, I logged in the other day and I had a banner message saying I should reduce my monthly bill from £79 to £69, eon would never have done that.

Re: Smart meters
 

I’m with Bulb, and have Smart Meters (from when I was with Npower) - they dropped mine from £99 to £93..

Re: Smart meters
 

I spotted this when checking Openreach FTTC cab status.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1587487612

Re: Smart meters
 

Well our usage is still way up on pre-smart meter even with our solar panels giving record generation. Not exactly sure how to proceed. Heating, hot water (other than shower) and cooking are all gas. Meter people say it's our inverter using all the power, solar people (not installers - gone broke) say that's not possible as while inverter needs AC present it uses (mostly) DC and either is working (which it is) or isn't. And why this jump exactly at moment smart meter installed.
Maybe need to get Which? involved.

Re: Smart meters
 

My advice is get rid of a smart meter, far more trouble than they're worth.

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Better not to have one installed.

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Exactly, really happy Bulb for not making me have one and their prices.

Re: Smart meters
 

Easier said than done.

Re: Smart meters
 

The electricity meters use electricity but the connection is before the meter so you don’t pay. Most gas meters have a battery with a ten year life

Re: Smart meters
 

My gas meter is still mechanical, seems more reliable than depending on an electricity supply.

Re: Smart meters
 

Like water meters, once installed you can't get shot of them.

I have heard people are able to get rid of them BUT THEY CHARGE AN ARM AND A LEG TO DO IT!!!!!!

Re: Smart meters
 

It's been a while, but the SMART meter touts are at it again.

A phonecall, obviously rushing over their identity, asking me to confirm the fitting date as next Tuesday.

Nope.

"You are obliged to have one by your supplier contract".

Nope.

"It will soon be a legal requirement to have one fitted".

Nope.

"If you do not get one fitted for free, you will have to pay for the meter and installation yourself".

Nope.

"Your provider will not be able to put you on their best tariff without a SMART meter and so you will lose out financially".

Nope.

"Why don't you want one?"

I do not trust them..............

He hung up.

Re: Smart meters
 

The tiny companies I use for gas/ electric have never bothered me about smart meters. Top tip, never give them your phone no ! Its not needed to get a utility supply.

Re: Smart meters
 

Whoever I was with a few years ago tried to get me to have one, and "booked me an appointment" to swap. I told them I to cancel it, I would not let anyone on my property to do so, and if they tried I'd call the police. Never heard from them again about it, no other supplier has tried.

Re: Smart meters
 

SSE (now OVO?) Keep writing to tell me our electricity meter is out of calibration and 'has expired', they phoned today which was a first so it looks like they're upping their game. Have been searching online and am struggling to find out definitively if what they're saying about the old meter is true or not.

Re: Smart meters
 

Well meters do technically have a lifespan, but you dont have to have a smart meter, if they want to replace it, tell them you want a proper one :)

This is old, but still quite informative ;

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/02...a-smart-meter/

Re: Smart meters
 

Thanks, interesting read.

Good for you for standing up to him!!! (Most probably would have caved)

Probably wasnt even the power co!!

Re: Smart meters
 

Bulb have just started sending me emails saying, we are installing in your area book now. Etc

Re: Smart meters
 

I never took one when I was offered, I just do not trust them, a few people I know have just not plugged them in ,so what is the point, I read my own meter every month,

Re: Smart meters
 

They can't just be plugged in, they have to be fitted by your energy supplier.

Re: Smart meters
 

My electricity one has never worked properly and I still get estimated bills. The gas people want me to have one. No way Jose.

Re: Smart meters
 

I’ve been lucky - both mine work fine, and send twice daily readings to the supplier.

Re: Smart meters
 

The present non-smart meters read kilowatt hours (kWh).

Due to some complicated effects by how you use the electricity in your home, this means power companies lose power, and therefore money.

They would much rather we all change to kilovolt amperes (kVa) and put that extra cost onto consumers.

https://scottiestech.info/2018/02/27...tor%20of%201.0.

Re: Smart meters
 

Commercial users have to pay an extra charge if their PF* (Power Factor) is less than 1. Before smart meters the installation included a non-user resettable PF meter that recorded the lowest value.

Partly because the losses in the electricity transmission system depend on KVA not KWatts

Smart meters show this KVA total value as "Imported reactive power" if you can work out which buttons to press on the main meter to get this display. Domestic users are currently billed for "Imported active power"

On the domestic front the low PF items are fridges and freezers due to the induction motor that runs the compressor. According to my own energy monitor they can be as low as 0.6

If you have solar cells then the power you send to the grid is shown as "Exported active power"

* PF = Real power (KWatts) / Apparent power (KVA)

Re: Smart meters
 

PF of some LED lighting has been measured low as 0.35.

Not so attractive if they started charging for kVa.

A very techie read if you can't sleep. http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Power_factor

Yes and are MUCH BETTER.. The power companies have just gotton greedy and want every penny!! (They dont care if its not the best for us)