Arrow
 

Is it just me or does anyone else think Laurel isn't actually dead? I know we have just had the funeral, lots of crying and seen Oliver and Felicity "now" have like she is really gone and want revenge but in the last episode when she died my immediate reaction was that they faked it. Everything was going hunky dory and she was going to recover and all of a sudden she was dead. I appreciate that they might have written it that way for the shock effect to the audience but it is the way she was kind of saying good bye to Thea and everyone saying how much she loves them all and then reminiscing with Oliver before she made him promise her something and it all went quiet. If it was just a "promise me that if anything every happens to me you'll look after my dad" or something then we would have heard it.

I might be making myself look like a twit but I really believe that she isn't dead. I think they planned it and have injected her with some sort of sedative to induce a death-like state so everyone thinks she is dead and she can now do things off the radar and go after Damien Dark.

Re: Arrow
 

The thought crossed my mind, but then I remembered how bare bones Arrow became when they prioritised The Flash. It's still enjoyable but this has been one of the dullest seasons thus far. Season 3 was probably my most enjoyable. So I'm 50/50 although I've seen your theory on Reddit pretty strongly too.

Re: Arrow
 

excellent, I am glad I am not the only one who thought that, The sad thing is that I have been doing some googling and unless they are doing a massive rouse and trying to give people the biggest shock ever, it looks like they have actually killed her off. One of the producers has explained the decision behind getting rid of her character specifically and basically said they have done everything they can with her (relationship with Olly, the other guy, making up with Olly again, , love triangle between Olly, her and Feilicity, turning into Black Canary and ADA) and they felt her death would have the greatest impact on the other characters.

I agree with what you say about this season. I don't like undefeatable bad guys and the only way they can redeem this season is if they kill Dark. I am sick and tired of him getting away with really bad stuff and all the good guys suffering. I nearly exploded when they shot Felicity and all I can say is it is a good flipping job they found a way to make her walk again. I know there is a line between good and evil but given what had happened I would have been perfectly happy if they killed Dark's wife and daughter in retaliation for everything he has done and make him learn that even if he thinks he is invincible, there is a price for his actions.

Re: Arrow
 

Malcolm Merlyn is one of the more annoying ones that follow this path. Screws them continuously but because he is Thea's biological father they just let him do it, defeat his evil plan then forget about it the next day even though he was quite willing to let his daughter die to keep his power atop of the League of Assassins.

Something sprung my mind anyway regarding Laurel, either the actress want's out or they faked her death. Seemingly killing a character off whilst the actress was still willing to make future shows isn't unheard of but they currently have a show that takes in side characters, Legends of Tomorrow of course, a show that desperately needs new additions and to lose some of the ones they have.

Either way, I've made it clear in other threads that despite the Dark Knight trilogy, I despise the DC movies because they always get it so wrong. I love everything Marvel but find their TV stuff a bit bland whilst I've enjoyed every bit of DCs TV shows I've seen thus far. They can not let this go to waste and keep biting off more than they can chew. Arrow deserves the same production quality as the Flash. We've seen the highs of Arrow and they're just as good as The Flash. I really don't see a reason for them to be putting Arrow on the back burner like they are. The budget for LoT is astonishing and will likely never reach the height of these other shows and for that Arrow is the main casualty thus far. I like LoT, it's not great but it's a fun watch at times but honestly, I'd cut it if it meant having the same production quality for Arrow as the first three seasons. Season 3 with the Ras storyline was excellent and finished even better, appearances by John Constantine and so on, Constantine is definitely someone that should be involved this season given the story arc but again, production and whatnot.

Lastly for the 'lulz' Last night's episode where Barry was beside him... or infact green screened in, that's how absurd it's got, usually they're dead on with CGI and green screens and whatnot and most of the time I can't tell but Barry Allen zooming off last night was absolute laziness, he almost moonwalked away it was so bad. You'd think they'd sync the timeline up too. That Barry is from the past so we're now ahead of Arrow in The Flash, despite the Flash having well over a month of breaks in episodes.

Anyway: This obviously doesn't speak for every fan, but I think the titles of these reddit threads about sums up what fans are thinking now https://www.reddit.com/r/arrow

You'll also find other theories like your own in there about Laurel.

Re: Arrow
 

Nuclear bombs that actually wiped out a town? After every nuke in the world nearly launched? This is Arrow not the Avengers or Justice League. Every superhero needn't worry, Oliver Queen will save us. You just can't bring on a finale this absurd in a shared universe. Not much else to say.

Re: Arrow
 

that story arc did bug me a bit but it was more because Felicity could prevent a world wide catastrophe and in the space of a few minutes and not the NSA/MI6/KGB.

What fascinates me though is the underground town Darkh has created to survive the apocalypse. I doubt we currently have the technology or money to build something so elaborate today but it makes me you wonder what sort of smaller scale equivalents have been created in mountains/government installations today which would include living quarters, communal areas, air filtration, water recycling and maybe a hydroponics section so a self contained environment can be viable for ~1 year in the event of an emergency.

Re: Arrow
 

Well that was pretty mediocre :( Surely they'll give Arrow another good run rather than continuously pushing The Flash and Legends given the first three seasons of Arrow look like a masterpiece compared to LoT. This whole story arc had John Constantine written all over it yet he made two appearances which I guess seals the fact that he simply isn't coming back solo or cameo. His solo series was great and his Arrow appearances were epic. Annoying to see it scrapped after a single season especially after a dull LoT season and whatever Lucifer was.. A mix of brilliant and then dire boredom cop procedural.

Oh and that line by Damien (phone keeps inputting shark) about him being in the league of assassin's. Was he just completely unaware Oliver Queen was a member and killed Ra's and became Ra's?

I like John Barrowman but the merlyn character is getting ridiculous now. Betrayal, saves someone, teams up, betrayals again and so on to the point you struggle to keep up with the swerves. The guy is a mass murderer having committed genocide but Oliver and the teams refusal to deal with him pretty much sets up the Nuclear Apocalypse event in which tens of thousands die and nobody bats an eyelid about his responsibility bare in mind John killed his brother Andy.

Re: Arrow
 

I have just watched and am too tired to have a moan atm so I am going to save it till tomorrow morning.

Re: Arrow
 

That was just the worst season finale I think I have EVER seen!

Dear god. Just cancel it if its more of the same next season!

Re: Arrow
 

At present it can only be more of the same unless they inject some serious money into the budget. We're all aware that the creative team from Arrow jumped to the Flash and this is why the ship is suddenly turning the other way, then you had Legends with a massive budget then on top of that you had Supergirl. Any guesses where Arrow is currently sitting in that pile of production quality priority

Its blatantly clear they assumed Arrow had established itself enough to let them pull the rug out from underneath them whilst keeping the same level of quality. That's quickly backfired. I don't think Lucifer is any relation despite being a DC entity so haven't included it.

Basically I don't think Arrow is getting a fair share. I think Legends and the money that was pumped into it pretty much became the iceberg for Arrow.

I get that writers can't contribute to multiple things at once but DC are really starting to push things out way too fast and are neglecting the show that put their TV productions to all time highs. Unless Arrow gets its budget back and a decent creative team behind it again, I see nothing but another dismal nonsensical season

Re: Arrow
 

I've just watched the lacklustre finale to S4 and to say I'm disappointed is an understatement.

I'm wondering if it is just a prequel to season 5 (confirmed) being a "wind down" season.

If not they've got a lot to do to keep the interest going for it to manage a season 6.

Season 4 went out like a damp squib, season 5 surely has to start with a bang or they may as well forget it.

Re: Arrow
 

I was going to say the same thing but I wanted to give it the benefit of doubt.

I don't know where to start:
1) This time round nobody even questions Malcom's change in allegiance, asks him what he is doing or gives him any grief about his prior indiscretions.
2) We have only got 27 minutes till the world ends but sure, I'll run outside and make a speech.
3) There are 200 people shouting and fighting on the street yet they all manage to hear Oliver's voice clearly over everyone else's and all stop to listen because they haven't got anything else to think about or do.
4) They drill it into us that Damien is pretty much invincible now and it is pointless sending the Argus agents in and Oliver tells Felicity that his good magic isn't strong enough anymore
5) Instead of using the element of surprise Oliver walks into Darkh's lair and announces himself
6) All of a sudden Oliver now has the power to neutralise Darkh's magic but instead of aiming to kill him he lands a superficial blow
7) You would have thought after getting his ass kicked time and time again that ex-special forces man would learn to carry more than a 9mm around
8) What is going to be the bad guy/impending doom in the next season? Surely you can't beat 15,000 nukes and complete global annihilation?

Re: Arrow
 

also

9) After Darkh was killed, what happened to his daughter? was she just left in that cave thing?
10) There was no tease what so ever for next season. It ended as if that was the last episode ever!

Re: Arrow
 

I suppose so, I didn't look at it that way although in retrospect the way they flashed between the characters and them moving on with their lives definitely made it look like it was a series finale. I am not expecting it to be cancelled so I viewed it as if they were setting up something completely different for next season to give it a fresh start. Rather than having to waste time in the opening episode establishing itself and explaining to us what the characters have done, we know now that they have gone their separate ways and we expect them to do x, y and z and lead a certain lifestyle. I think the next season will start off "2 years later............" where Oliver has settled in as a seasoned Mayor for example and can get straight to it and they don't have to spend time with him learning the ropes. The characters will have had some timeouts away from things so their attitudes and personalities will have changed and it will also give the writers some wiggle room in the stories for a fresh set of flashbacks for all the characters and not just Oliver as they can show us what the characters have been up to and what we have missed as and when it ties in to each episodes story arc.

If they do that though I'll be slightly pee'd. I watch Arrow for the Arrow and one of the posts above has already commented that Oliver never does anything by himself anymore. If they start introducing flashbacks for all the characters (I think Diggle is a waste of space and just annoys me) for the sake of padding the episode/series then they'll be clutching at straws. I don't mind if it is relevant to the story and explains why Thea for example is behaving a certain way and shows us some trauma she has experienced but they need to be careful how they use them.

Oh and........

11) In the event of a global apocalypse surely they could have enlisted the Flash to use super and at the very least whiz around America with Felicity's gizmo and hack the nukes in conjunction with Supergirl intercepting the ones Barry couldn't get and flying them into space?
12) Failing that, get Barry to go back in time (it was good enough to set up LoT) to a pivotal moment and a) stop Darkh from launching the nukes b) stop him from getting the idol/his power c) kill him as soon as he is born (take your pick).

Any of them would have been a more realistic and feasible way of ending an OTT story line.

Re: Arrow
 

Surely that many nukes would wipe out the whole kit and kabodle. Then add time travel and alternate universes or even timelines. Things get too complex and linked and then they need ways to unpick it all without it all falling apart.

Remember the whale in Hitchiker's? Adams put that in just to kill it and make listeners worry about it. Maybe "kill" off a character and see what happens? If it seems they need a return, well this is TV, anything can happen.

Re: Arrow
 

It was renewed a while ago, along with Flash and LoT.

Re: Arrow
 

Update on the new bad guy which we were discussing recently (along with where the series was going to go):

"The character, tentatively named ‘Anton Church,’ is a ruthless crime lord who sets out to fill the sizable void left by 960Damien Darhk and H.I.V.E. The initial casting notice describes him as an ‘apex predator’ who ‘cuts his way through the shadows’ by taking down ‘the biggest threat first"

http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/ar...ire-character/

Re: Arrow
 

Re: Arrow
 

Re: Arrow
 

OK so I'm biased but I'm looking forward to episode 10!

Arrow, the show that spawned The CW’s sprawling DC shared universe, is now in its fifth season and closing in on its 100th episode. Oliver Queen a.k.a. The Hood a.k.a. The Arrow a.k.a. The Green Arrow has been through a lot of adventures across those episodes, both in the present day and in the series’ ongoing flashbacks, and some of his most notable adventures have involved the al Ghul family.

Already Arrow fans have gotten to know Ra’s al Ghul (Matt Nable) and Nyssa al Ghul (Katrina Law) very well, but now another member of the infamous family is set to join Arrow in season 5. CBR reports that Lexa Doig (Continuum) has been cast in a recurring role as Talia al Ghul, Nyssa’s half-sister, and will make her first appearance in season 5, episode 10, “Who Are You?” According to The CW’s official description of her character, Talia is “an elite warrior who doesn’t pick sides but rather creates her own.”

Talia al Ghul has already appeared in the Arrowverse, though not in Arrow; a season 1 episode of Legends of Tomorrow, “Left Behind,” featured Talia as a child (played by Milli Wilkinson), and also saw Nable reprise his role as Ra’s al Ghul. The most famous on-screen portrayal of Talia al Ghul to date is in Christopher Nolan’s The Dark Knight Rises, where the character was portrayed by Marion Cotillard.

Speaking in an interview last year, Arrow‘s executive producer Andrew Kreisberg said that he and the other showrunners were happy focusing on Nyssa’s story arc, and that “if we ever think of a reason to have a Talia or whatever incarnation we decide to do, it would be in service of furthering Katrina’s story.” This means that the arrival of Talia al Ghul could also signal Nyssa al Ghul’s imminent return to the show (Law hasn’t guest-starred since season 4).

A recent report claimed that neither Talia al Ghul nor her father are set to appear in any of Warner Bros.’ currently planned DC movies, so fans of the character who don’t already watch Arrow should consider doing so for this season, since it will be the only place to find a live-action take on Talia for the foreseeable future. The character has been around in the comics since 1971, where she has been romantically involved with Batman and also has a child with him, Damian Wayne, who eventually took up the mantle of Robin.

Re: Arrow
 

Flipping brilliant. Rommi is going to kick some ass. I hope she is so popular that she gets a recurring role going forward.

Re: Arrow
 

Thought you'd like the news GM. Episode 10 airs 18th Jan.

Re: Arrow
 

Thanks, something which I shall very much be looking forward to after Christmas.

Re: Arrow
 

I believe Prometheus is merely part of a group headed by the actual Villain which I assume to be Talia Al Ghul, you can make that link by suggesting she wants to avenge her father's death. You can then back up popular theories regarding Prometheus because Talia would've had access to the Lazarus pit before its destruction.

That's merely theory though.

However its worth noting that every season makes use of Flashbacks to explain things that are key to the present day plot. I.E season 4 flashbacks eventually showed you the source of Darhk's power and where it came from. If there's no larger theory like above then its likely the origin of Prometheus and co will be explained via these flashbacks. Where the flashbacks are going this season is anyone's guess though, they have linked it to last season however by introducing a maid whom turns out to be the mother of two people Oliver killed on the Island.

Re: Arrow
 

Best episodes of both Flash and Arrow in a while now.

Enjoy the twists and mind bending theories.

Pretty confident Prometheus is the result of Flashpoint and Lazarus Pit with the assistance of Talia Al Ghul. The latest episode twist can be explained via 2 ways though. Not gonna spoilt the twist anyway.

Re: Arrow
 

Re: Arrow
 

This is really starting to do my nut in. you can tell they are desperate for story lines because they can't do the flashbacks anymore so instead they just write in stupid and unrealistic arguments, dramas and breakups between the characters and group. I thought the whole thing with Renee was stupid and repetitive ("I can be completely unreasonable and do whatever I want because you spied on me (even though it was justified) and that gives me an excuse to do whatever I want") and now you have got John too. It needs to get cancelled because I can't see how it can get any more ridiculous.

Re: Arrow
 

Well you have at least another 28 episodes to enjoy (probably 29). :)

Re: Arrow
 

Good grief General you are getting as nearly as bad as Victor Meldrew lately as perhaps your expectations are becoming too high.

Re: Arrow
 

Nah he's bang on the money. The show is dead and has been for some time. The only purpose of its existence now is crossovers. It used to be the prime show, it had its creative team pulled out from underneath it to work on The Flash and sadly never recovered from that. It only finds a way to get progressively worse. The introduction of fully fledged sidekicks really broke the last straw. The intro sequence is just stupid, the three sidekicks are just stupid and the three sidekick split off team is again, just plain stupid. They're dull and make the show considerably worse. It might not have the best writers at the minute but the show would instantly redeem some of itself by removing all three and reverting back to Oliver Queen and John Diggle and putting out some reasonable storylines. We're for whatever reason heading towards a Villain Diggle too.

I'd say have Oliver join the waverider for a season but that would undermine Cpt Lance, as Oliver is similar but infinitely more skilled.

The Flash is meant to be the prime show. Even that is falling behind. Flashpoint was done poorly and they're feeling it, combined with Legends of Tomorrow gaining traction like a locomotive. They're very close to unofficially losing that 'Prime show' tag to Legends.

So as said in the renewals thread, Legends is sitting atop of the pile right now, it's ever changing, it's hardly ever repetitive. There's a constant flow of changing side characters, the odd legend switcharound and so forth. CW also judged fan reaction by stirring up a possible Constantine Season 2 and then introduced him to Legends as a side character and presumably a full time Legend as of Season 4.

Re: Arrow
 

Re: Arrow
 

they must have finally clicked that it doesn't work when they include LoT as well. I always watched the first three eps on Arrow, Flash and Supergirl and then missed out on the finale because I refuse to watch LoT.

Re: Arrow
 

Your loss :)

LoT is better than Arrow, and arguably better than the Flash now, as thats going downhill.

Re: Arrow
 

The reason is cause LoT only gets 16 episodes a season unlike the others that gets 22-24

Re: Arrow
 

they just don't know when to flipping give up

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/a...rks-at-the-cw/

Re: Arrow
 

What's wrong with that? If the comics can change and continue with other people being said named hero, then TV can too.

Re: Arrow
 

Its too long in the tooth now for my liking.

Re: Arrow
 

Me too, everyone is fed up with it and we need at least a year for a break. All that is going to happen with this is that they'll bang out season 1, the ratings will be rubbish and it will be cancelled.

Re: Arrow
 

Good. :D

---------- Post added at 00:46 ---------- Previous post was at 00:40 ----------

They are not.
It was the 4th most watched series on CW last season, beaten only by The Flash, Supernatural & Supergirl.

Re: Arrow
 

Not everyone is. I know a fair amount of people that would rather see Arrow continue.

I will look forward to the new Spin off.

Might be what's needed to refresh it.

Re: Arrow
 

Arrow did well enough to last this long. Baring in mind the creative team 'abandoned' it for The Flash. I'm on the I'd rather not see a spinoff side of things. Just keep open the idea of Amell appearing in Legends.

Shame WB wouldn't pitch these shows to Amazon or something and get some money behind them.

Re: Arrow
 

Why would the pitch any series to another streamer when they are introducing their own streaming service next year?