Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

fascinating podcast.. more to come from him i think in a few weeks.. he's (steve g ) is as clearly as worried as we are.. and a powerful and recognised ally.. been following grc for years.. shields up etc

Phorm totally slated..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

How much should be added for human rights violation?

Would not an award on this issue imply a criminal action and open the floodgates to other claims?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Pete,

This claim for compensation won't cost much - I have the funds / resources to handle this myself. And it is just a claim for compensation and not a full legal case against BT for the trials.

I have discussed that second point and that would be really expensive. Lets wait and see what the ICO follow up with, what the parliamentary ombudsman says, what the City of London Police conclude with Alex's case file and what Vivane Redings team do about it and worry about a privately funded case later ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That's a difficult one. Whereas if his claim was successful it would certainly show that he has incurred damage as a result of the trial, it would not be making a judgement as to the criminality of the trials themselves (or rather it is unlikely to).

Furthermore, I doubt very much whether BT would not settle this matter before it goes to court. Stephen could refuse to accept that settlement and still take them to court on principle but a judge is going to be far less favourable in an aggressive action if fair and just settlement has been offered by BT. Courts are supposed to be a last resort only and vexatious claims are seen in very bad light.

However, the reverse may be true. If there is a criminal judgement it could almost definitely be used in a civil case and may even be grounds for a request for default judgement. I should stress though, whereas I pay a lot of attention to law and feel I have a reasonable grasp of it, I am not a lawyer so I could be wrong in anything I have stated above. My advice would be for Stephen to contact someone like Nicholas Bohm and politely ask him for an opinion on the matter.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This seems to be an out of session Critical Windows XP SP2 SP3 Update so i'm post it here.


http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...DisplayLang=en

Overview
A security issue has been identified that could allow an unauthenticated remote attacker to compromise your Microsoft Windows-based system and gain control over it. You can help protect your computer by installing this update from Microsoft. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

On a related note, I'd recommend updating to Firefox 3.

Firefox 2's anti phishing filter seems vulnerable to a man in the middle attack, potentially allowing a criminal with access to the network to remove phishing sites from the Firefox 2 list of evil sites.

Firefox 3 implements the Safe Browsing protocol v2 (which uses secure encrypted message authentication to check list validity).

http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affili...ox3/468x60.png

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well, we'll see if words translate into action & how long it takes...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

hamster, if you bother to read the E&Y report you will see it was conducted according to US law not UK, also it was only a process audit, not an audit of the actual system,

so it effect it was an audit of what phorm said they will do not what they actually do

which means most people in here will probably use it to line a litter tray

peter white (see i am not affraid to own up who i am)

---------- Post added at 20:54 ---------- Previous post was at 20:51 ----------

and WHY is there not a virgin logo on the webwise page if virgin are so committed to phorm as phorm say, but virgin saying only interested and NO CONTRACT in place

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Every time you connect to a Web Site you Open that Shield, I too also always get a True Stealth reading, but once you let code Javascript or anything run on your Pc then you are relying on the MS kernel to protect your system.

It is up to you whether you Update your System, but please do not encourage others not to update critical updates.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'd just like to welcome www.phorm.com and www.webwise.com back to the UK.

Did you enjoy your little getaway trip to NY? Catch the sun while you were over at PSInet? :cool:

I see you forgot to bring your DNS server back. Perhaps they'll send them on with the lost luggage? 38.105.138.53, 38.105.138.54.

Its such a bummer when that happens. You get home and find you've left your DNS servers at the airport. :doh:

UPDATE; just got this live web cam image from JFK airport... I can see your DNS servers going round and round on the luggage reclaim;

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/25.png

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just finished listening to Steve Gibsons podcast, i love it when he said, phorm are not nice people or words to that effect, looking forward to his phormscumware podcast in two weeks time.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Great to hear from lurkers Oldun :) Did you find the link to Frank Rizzo's unfolding secret trial drama, culminating in the now infamous hugely embarrassing BT denial?
Here it is - I think it's a great read ;)
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthre...anded&sb=5&o=0
or
http://tinyurl.com/25ggog

There have been recent additions, so it's best to follow the posts chronologically.
gnilddif

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I rarely update my XP Pro SP2

I'm not saying don't update Windows but here's a for instance why it need not be done the day a patch is released.

My work requires me to run both Internet Explorer 6 and 7 (personally I wouldn't surf with either of these virus magnets, prefering Firefox or Opera)

Both Microsoft browsers run side by side on my system

The only reason they do is because I didn't install a security update for Windows Media Player (I only use Media Player Classic) in November 2005 which also removed XP's ie6/ie7 compatibility mode (probably to insure that the new browser was taken up by Joe public warts and all) and I've never installed any security updates for ie7 either.

Before downloading any update it's a good idea to search Google for the KB number followed by the word "problem" (some updates do not like certain chipsets) and always create your own restore point before installing one.

I use a heavily configured ZoneAlarm Pro version 4.5.594.000 - the last good one before all the bells and whistles.

Just my 2p

:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I agree. Steve's podcast was excellent, he didn't mince any words. From somebody who is well respected in (most) security circles this should make some of the 'Pros' sit back. Looking forward to his Phorm detailed podcast in two weeks, he has clearly worked out what we all know - their implementation is HORRIBLE...

Dave
(still lurking...)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Poor tradecraft. In the days of Uncle Joe it would have been off to the gulag, but now I suspect it's just another missed milestone on the project plan.

I'm not sure about all the implications, i'm not a network bod, but have you just exposed and forced the reversal of a stealthy attempt to export data out of the UK Pete? Via a proxy.

I hope you are keeping a few things in reserve to hit them with when/if any trials start. Having to reconfigure a live system might spoil their day.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hey Guys

Another Legal issue unearthed (Thanks VM News Groups Members):

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/uks..._en_2#pt2-l1g3

5.�(1) A commercial practice is a misleading action if it satisfies the conditions in either paragraph (2) or paragraph (3).

(2) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph�

(a) if it contains false information and is therefore untruthful in relation to any of the matters in paragraph (4) or if it or its overall presentation in any way deceives or is likely to deceive the average consumer in relation to any of the matters in that paragraph, even if the information is factually correct; and

(b) it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

Extract from the The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, as available at www.opsi.gov.org

I haven't looked any further - so knock yerselves out lads and ladies :D

:angel:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well, well well, whaddya know? I was just browsing through those posts on the bbl thread I just mentioned, and spotted that Frank posted on July 2 2007: 'I have logged an abuse at bt and directsupport at bt which is an address on the ripe form.'

Funny that, because I have a letter in front of me from the Chief Counsel (Commercial Law) at BT Retail dated 13 May 2008, saying "we were not able to identify individual customers who participated" (in the trials) "but in the one or two instances where it has subsequently become clear from later correspondence that customers may have experienced these problems, we have sought to contact them".

abuse at bt, direct support at bt, a leaked report that makes it plain that BT was monitoring the helpdesks and forums during the trials ....now, who do you believe?

gnilddif

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Do we have a definitive list of BT lies and misleading comments? Ditto Phorm.

It would be useful to send to MP's, Europe etc.

We would need dated, verifiable evidence of the porky, then dated, verifiable evidence of the truth.

There would be 'plain English' porkies and 'technical' porkies.

EDIT : I shall try to put one together over the next few days and would appreciate any input.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

[QUOTE=Dephormation;34580433]I'd just like to welcome www.phorm.com and www.webwise.com back to the UK.

Did you enjoy your little getaway trip to NY? Catch the sun while you were over at PSInet? :cool:

I see you forgot to bring your DNS server back. Perhaps they'll send them on with the lost luggage? 38.105.138.53, 38.105.138.54.

Its such a bummer when that happens. You get home and find you've left your DNS servers at the airport. :doh:

I was doing some tracing on those IP addresses & this turned up
38.104.69.66 phorm.demarc.cogentco.com

Not sure if it's of any significance though.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Little Rant.

Now that things have quietened down a little since this afternoon I would like to make an observation. The Gentleman or Lady who seemed to be just provoking a merry-go-round of comments from the anti Phorm majority on this forum I feel had an agenda. I suspect that agenda was to provoke exactly what happened this afternoon which was lots of arguments which got us nowhere and was equivalent to a hamster running on a wheel going nowhere.

Anybody who at that moment in time was to go to this forum and make some sort of informed decision on the Phorm issue and evaluate its its critics would not have perceived a good impression of the standard of the anti phorm debate that is normally present here.

I think we should be ready for this type of behaviour and treat it a bit more wisely. If what I believe to be true, actually happened as described above, there would have been a reason for this occurring and we certainly fell into any trap that was carefully planned.

The best way to deal with your perceived enemy is to treat it with respect and not fall into bog standard reactionary behaviour which feeds only their argument. Now and again we should maintain the element of surprise and there were not many surprises today. To win the battle we must prepare, be positive and not react like headless chickens when provoked. By all means we should react but I felt as more and more silly arguments were thrown into the discussion by the person in question we should have spotted this far more quickly than we did and just ignore it or sever the discussion quickly if we are going nowhere.

There is enough informed fact contained within this forum for anybody to judge the issue in our favour. Lets make this information easier to find.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Phorm ought to feel flattered and chuffed with NebuAd's latest action which imitates them somewhat. They thought "we need spyware people, just like Phorm have".

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/20/nebuad_claria/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Have a look at BT Community Forums:

BT Webwise FAQ

and the "locked" thread from March 4th:

The original Q&A Thread with answers by Adam Liversage

Both of these contain statements by BT which can be construed as official...

:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Agree entirely...mouth shut, ignore button on.:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yeah you're right

However at one point I was convinced I was talking to someone who looks like this:

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Which was when, for me at least, things started to get much more interesting and I got totally sidetracked...



:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Not sure if you are aware but microsoft supply a free XP virtual pc image with ie6 on to aid with web development. They also supply XP images with IE7 and IE8 aswell as Vista images. Virtual pc is free aswell.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

I've used the xp/ie6 image myself for a while now and it works fine. You can install all of the latest updates without having to lose the ability to run IE6.

EDIT: Although it says the images expire in september, they do make new images available before the existing ones "time out".

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I am ashamed to say that I too fell for the goading. Sorry all, at my age I should know better.

“To conquer oneself is a greater task than conquering others�
Budda

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'm sure the Israeli scientist that blew the whistle on the Nuclear capability of the said mentioned who was swept of his feet by a sexy Israeli agent would totally agree with you. He was persuaded to go for a romantic meeting abroad and was subsequently captured and taken for trial.

The best weapon is the female 'phorm'.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I forgot about that - I downloaded the full free Virtual PC 2007 to use in Vista only to find it can only run in Business or Ultimate Editions (not my lowly Home Premium). Having just checked it is XP Pro compatible too.

I think it's only the Vista image that expires in September...

I'll grab that and have a play with it later - thanks :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Here's a good one:

Mar 7 2008 Adam Liversage on the BT Beta Webwise Q&A thread
http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...rt=60&tstart=0
<quote>We do not and cannot access any information you store on your computer. We also do not pass any data to any third party.</quote>

Now an email to me, in response to a BTWebwise website submission, from "bt.webwise.help.desk@bt.com" dated 13 March 2008
<quote, edited xxxxx for security)>
Dear xxxxx

Thank your for your email and apology in delay in responding.

...<snip tedious Knut cant>...

I hope that this response allays the concerns that you have expressed.
Please note that BT Webwise service will not be available for BT Retail
Business customers.

-----Original Message-----
From: marketing@phorm.com [mailto:marketing@phorm.com]
Sent: 05 March 2008 19:24
To: marketing@phorm.com
Subject: BT.webwise.com Contact Request

*** This email came from a bt.webwise.com contact submission on Wed 5
Mar 14:23:34 EST 2008. ***

Title: X
First name: <my real first name>
Last name: <my real surname>
ISP: BT
Email: <my primary bt email address>
Phone:
User type: Unknown User

Questions or comments:
I wish to ensure that no browsing history whatsoever is available to
your insidious snooping. Is www.oix.net the only URL that I must set
cookie-controls to reject?
</quote>

note the EST date stamp in the body text.And in the headers note the "FW" in <quote>Subject: FW: BT.webwise.com Contact Request</quote> Gosh, I wonder who "BTWebwise" forwarded my email to:shrug:

Btw that little matter of data-leaking has been reported to the ICO :D

gnilddif

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have tried VMware products and they are excellent but I believe http://www.virtualbox.org/ Virtualbox is also worth a look.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

He he :D

I'll remember that

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Has to be done...

"
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Pony trekking or camping,
Or just watching TV.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
It's the country for me.
You're so near to Russia,
So far from Japan,
Quite a long way from Cairo,
Lots of miles from Vietnam.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Eating breakfast or dinner,
Or snack lunch in the hall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.
You're so sadly neglected
And often ignored,
A poor second to Belgium,
When going abroad.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.
Finland has it all.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I must say, before this goes any further, I don't believe there are any grounds for linking that poor lady with Phorm. A search for her name and Phorm in Google brings back a wholly misleading search result, which actually refers to Virasb Vahidi. TBH I'd recommend you delete posts which include her name (unless there is a link I don't know about).

On the other hand, I do think there is a reason to finnish with the Hamsterman (Hamsterwoman?), but tbh I'd prefer we get back on with the urgent business of leaving scorched earth beneath Phorm.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Looks a bit like VMware Workstation (I've got an old version of that).

It looks promising though - as long as it does drag n drop between desktop and the VM window it should be ok.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Agree... but I would go further just ignore them Don't respond or reply to such obvious provocation. There have been several attempts at this sort of thing over at the BadPhorm forum.

It is a different matter when a pro phorm poster puts forward a serious argument (ie: Backbeak(??? - the guy from Finland - I can't find the posts because they are now lost in a sea of dross) Yesterday he started out pro phorm but was converted to an anti phorm position when presented with the facts)

Ignore trolls it is the only way.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Done. Cheers.

---------- Post added at 00:20 ---------- Previous post was at 00:15 ----------

Decide then ignore, but my sentiments entirely.

(Blackbeak) They were a good exchange of posts and its a pity we lost them in the Dross.

Seems we are very popular with the Finland posters though! Coincidence???

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've just listened to the GRC Security Now! podcast, what a solid and informed item stating that Phorm is by far the worst of all these advertising leeches, the transcript of the episode also contains some wonderful quotes that could be used in the fight against Phorm if the guys over at GRC would let us.

I'm looking forward to #151 when they're going into more detail on the issue.

Well worth a listen, or have a look at the transcript.

:clap: The guys @ GRC

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

But what if a senior person at Phorm was today, hypothetically, speaking to a senior representative from the EEC that was visiting and that person happened to be advocating that the anti-phorm crowd are a bunch of nutters and didn't know what they were talking about.

Imagine "Here, lets browse to the forum now that was referenced in the email you received and lets see what's going on".
Snapshot- This afternoon.

This is my point.

But
I totally agree with the great idea about the lookup index but I honestly don't see it happening. I think once and every couple of days we should post some sort of reference material that is added to over time so that a new reader to the forum can, in a nutshell, grasp what our main points are. These should include links to the better sites like your own and all obvious others.

Edit - I think the post I was responding to must have been deleted but the gist still applies to what I previously said.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It’s unfortunate that we only have one thread. We really need a Behavioural Targeting sub-forum, then the more tangential posts can be moved out to separate threads. I know there’s a Webwise Apathy thread, but no-one can be bothered to post on it.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Maybe later today I could look through the thread and pick out pagers of important info and make a post linking to thje best so some can get a quick update without all the stuff that was done today.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I take your point but you shouldn't worry so much about a handful of unruly disjointed posts. If someone is interested in the debate they will pick up the jist of the thread by closer scrutiny. Anyone that can't discriminate the chaff from the wheat in an important subject discussion shouldn't really be in a position to make an informed judgement about the subjects context.



I think the anti-phorm debate will take on some structure over the next few months and certainly over the years. People in Britain are just starting to wake up to this important privacy question -- they will want answers. Forums like these are the catalyst for greater public awareness so don't be disheartened when an idiot spoiler like HamsterWheel comes along to shanghai the event.


p.s. The Administrator saw fit to delete my post and issue me with warnings, nice. Looks like WobblyWheel will have to PM me if he wants to know what I wrote about him ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I didn't see much wrong with it to be quite honest but I was quickly scan reading it and picking out the relevant arguments. (And I have just finished a bottle of wine :) )

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Don't forget that this thread sits somewhere in the middle, between the BT thread and BadPhorm, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

Badphorm is open to anyone and is categorised. Having many threads mean you often have to hunt for current information, but if you want to find information about a specific issue, it's easier.

BT forum is one thread, but not everybody can post there.

The strength of this thread is that it is easy to find the latest information and anyone can post here. It's a melting-pot of ideas and news.

It's strengths are also it's weaknesses. It's hard to find things posted in the past and anyone can post here.

If all can post here and it is likely to be looked at by many people very soon, that makes it a target for the spoilers (paid for or otherwise).

Just ignore them.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap: Well said

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Maybe posters like HamsterWheel can be pointed to BadPhorm where it's easier to get up to speed. This will prevent this thread being "polluted". Abusive posters are also limited to individual threads.

HamsterWheel is perma banned from BadPhorm for conduct that was totally abusive and disgraceful.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'm quoting myself here, from a few weeks back.

Given that the implementation of phorm is likely to have changed considerably since Dr Clayton's paper, we really do need to get people inside the trial so the tech talent can analyse. Otherwise we will be blundering in the dark.

Could we get a checklist together and splash it round the web?

How to increase your chances of being included in the trial and what to do if you are.

I don't know enough to do this or what the tech bods might want. Please contribute as it could be important.

EDIT : I found this of mine, also from the past.


Please refine, i'm not a network bod.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Good advice all round..

Let's focus on the discussion element of Phorm and not one or two particular posters trying to spoil it for others. If they have a good argument to give - lets hear it but, insults and personal remarks should be left in the playground.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

NO need to be sorry Vicz, a groundhog day at the speed this thread grows is a good thing now and then.

its that groundhog day type stuff , that stops the below the radar Experion CRA's using DPI, and collecting and collateing more data for your credit file, and the Orange wireless mobile datastreams being DPI'ed being forgotten, not to mention those other DPI firms in that security update that we dont cover here as yet....they almost all come from the old renamed spyware/adware companies, keep them in your sights and update the thread when you find the linked information etc.

there are masses of new people reading the thread and getting inPhormed every day, if you remember something of merit from way back, and on re-reading it you can add the latest known information to it, then thats a good thing.

all you anonymous guests, feel free to sign up and post your thoughts as you start your page one reading, we need you, you make every one of us Stronger when you act.

dont just wait for a Pro-Phorm person (although the Eliza/Bob Bot a few weeks ago was entertaining ;) )to post and force you into action.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If phorm has changed a lot then surely it will need to be reinvestigated since due to the type of inviasion on privacy, the actual chance of something personal getting out into the WWW is easier once phorm is implemented.

One thing to remember if you do decide to change ISP due to Phorm is to be sure they ISP you choose is not going to implement phorm in the future and isn't on BT manages 21cn.

Entanet ISPs will not be phormed since Entanet are not happy to risk customers privacy or trust for a few gold coins. Zen is another since a leaked document showed that Phorm could be implemented on the managed 21cn they have changed plans and are looking at other ways they might even do more LLU they already have a few exchanges LLU'ed but in Rochdale. Manchester.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

'Groundhog day' makes it to El Reg... publicising the tenuous links between NebuAd, Claria and Gator corp...

NebuAd looks to 'spyware' firm for recruits

---------- Post added at 07:45 ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 ----------

I started an index to specific posts in this thread over in the 'apathy' thread. feel free to add to it. It is time consuming but could be considered worth it.

---------- Post added at 07:49 ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 ----------

You should be aware that I have already started this, you actually posted in the apathy thread yesterday when this forum was locked. feel free to add to the index of links already there.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I had noticed you had started might be worth pulling them altogether and perhaps asking Mick to add them to a closed stickie.

---------- Post added at 08:38 ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 ----------

Morning Hamster up early.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That would be totally in keeping with the underhand, dishonest way that Phorm have chosen to conduct their business thus far.

However, if the EU commissioner's team had spent more than 30 seconds reading yesterday afternoon's exchanges, they could not have failed to spot that amongst the chaff, several people repeatedly asked the pro-Phorm poster, in a calm, polite manner, to put forward any clear, logical arguments in favour of the Webwise system that he/she could think of.

Equally, they would have noted that no such arguments were forthcoming.

Conclusion drawn by EU team: Even Phorm's most rabid defenders can't come up with a cogent argument as to why we should accept this intrusion of our privacy for someone else's commercial gain.

Hypothetically speaking, I think their grubby little plan backfired, don't you? :p:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I just listened to Steve Gibson's latest podcast .. good one!

ISP Betrayal .. http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm ..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

what is really needed, given its not just Phorm here, we could do with a one stop shop usable forum "wiki" that can take all this (and the other) threads information, any (non?)member if their in the mood, will be able to update this information whenever something comes to light, keeping an eye out for people that want to remove/subvert the known facts placed there for their commercial gain OC.

how about it Paul,Mick etc is there room for a wiki here, or perhaps at Alexanders NoDPI site would be the better choice ?.

BTW, looking for those other companies
Security Now! Transcript of Episode #149
http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-149.pdf

heres the names of those other projects that need looking into, to trace their personels old Affiliations with any old spyware/adware or other connections, and not to forget the related tech docs to see how they are doing their intrusive datamining and perhaps breaking YOUR not for comercial use copyright notices etc.

"Steve:
one called Front Porch, one called Adzilla, and..."

"Steve:

Yeah, nebulous ads or something. Okay. And there's something called Adzilla and
something called Project Rialto. So NebuAd, for example, they say to site publishers, and this is jargon taken from their promotional material, they say

"NebuAd observes aggregated consumer activity across any site on the Internet without collecting and using any personally identifiable information about the consumer. NebuAd combines this [indiscernible] wide view of pages navigated, searches performed...."

So they're seeing
what searches you do. They're watching, essentially they're in your click stream. All of these companies, every one of them is installing equipment in the ISP's facility."

perhaps you had better go grab and archive that tech information before it disappears.

Project Rialto is interesting

http://incredibill.blogspot.com/2008...r-is-data.html

http://www.nabble.com/-INFORMATION--...d12981114.html

http://search.virginmedia.com/result...&cr=&x=64&y=13

and Front Porch.[2]. Adzilla and Project Rialto dont appear to have a wiki page as yet....

http://search.virginmedia.com/result...0&q=adzilla&cr=

http://adzilla.blogspot.com/2007/07/...-p-tampax.html

perhaps his "My ads link:" needs special focus here in the future,
the Iphone and his "pinball" grabed my eye,
but more so the relationships with the mobile data and the Olympics.

is there a hint (more like a mega signpost shouting "this is our Next BIG prospect" ;) )that all these DPI Interception for profit companys are going to converge on these and other large upcoming events, and use these sport events to Unlawfully mass collect, collate , and Process all your (mobile) datastreams and make their unlawful commercial "derivative works" for profit ?, thats a LOT of data in one place to be tracked back to your homebase later perhaps....

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

BT Customers

Please check for any unfamiliar routing - and note any untowards events.

The Article below contains the following quote, suggesting present tense in regards of the Trials:

"The current tests are set to push the system to see if it can cope with large volumes of traffic...."

http://www.customer-strategy.co.uk/c...cs=584&cs=3622

NOTE: This is not to say the Trials are running.

VM Customers

Are any other VM Customers having serious difficulties browsing including the following:

- Pages not loading, requiring a refresh
- Pages timing out consistently
- Pages loading in Plain Text only
- Tracerts indicating Traffic Management with Specific types of Traffic through the UBR

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

several VM users have seen that yes, but so far its put down to the 4Mbit to 10 Mbit/s UBR and related kit upgrades, just yesturday, my Baguley NW routed CM seemed to get a remote reset and rebooted ,but no speed config file update....

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've seen these issues for the past few days, and I'm in Edinburgh.

Edinburgh's upgrade was postponed months ago due to technical issues, and is not being upgraded for a while [grrrrrrrrr].

EDIT:

Popper try this, do tracerts for various genre, and then note the IP on the UBR.

I've been noticing, for the past few days here in Edinburgh, that Traffic appears to be managed beyond the STM. ie, different IPs for different genre. Anomaly?

EDIT 2:

As for talk with creating an index - is it possible someone could create a 'floating' toolbar to create bookmarks. We can all then work together to create an index for the Toolbar, which can be downloaded to our PCs. This would create a definative and very useful tool for the campaign.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

if your good with scripting (im Not) then Rebol View could do that easy and make a good GUI at the same time.

http://www.hmkdesign.dk/rebol/toolba...ar-manual.html

basicly anything thats got a file.r in a URL you can simply start rebol view, click cli/shell and type "do http://somewebsite/file.r "to have that (demo) script loaded up and run inside the 600k rebol view script app.

do http://www.hmkdesign.dk/rebol/toolbar/toolbar-demo.r
loads of example scripts here
http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap...script=proxy.r
http://www.reboltalk.com/forum/index.php/board,9.0.html


"do tracerts for various genre" what do you mean? put up the URLs you want to be traced and ill do it.

---------- Post added at 12:32 ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 ----------

OT but yet another "bad business practice" VM in th news again.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06..._banking_loss/
"Virgin Media collects customer banking details on CD, then loses it"

"...
The firm contacted the Information Commissioner's Office when it discovered the loss and took its advice on how to inform customers.

It is paying for credit file protection for everyone whose banking information is now out in the wild, which means any fraud will be indemnified and credit histories will be unaffected...."

sure, and OC they dont send your Bogus canceled BB services bill to the CRA's eather..... "Indemnified" "unaffected" my arrr..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've noticed that particular media sources are routed through the same IP on the UBR - and these I never have problems with:

five.tv (213.86.253.5): 77-96-1-33.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk
bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.131): 77-96-1-33.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk
itv.com (83.98.74.134): 77-96-1-33.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk
thesun.co.uk (143.252.148.160): 77-96-1-33.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk
channel4.com (83.98.28.10): 77-96-1-33.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk
virginmedia.com (212.250.162.12): 77-96-1-33.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk
pokerstars.com (77.87.179.127): 77-96-1-1.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk
poketstars.net (217.20.47.4): 77-96-1-2.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk
bt.com (217.32.165.148): 77-96-1-2.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk
tiscali.co.uk (212.74.99.30): 77-96-1-34.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk
diy.com (62.6.240.94): 77-96-1-1.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk
homebase.co.uk (129.35.70.107): 77-96-1-1.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk
pcworld.co.uk (195.92.228.186): 77-96-1-34.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk

The others I have intermitent problems with. It should be noted that this pattern has only started over the past few weeks, and the routing is consistent.

Now, they are not all in the same locus, so why route the same way? I wonder if this is a for prioritising services delivered to PCs? Or possibly caused by the Tech issues that are preventing Edinburgh's upgrade?

What about with you? Anything similar?

---------- Post added at 13:16 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------

Dephormation

Please contact me at the alternative source

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

something very weard there, im on the NTL bit (exC&W)BTW

i only just started on your list
typing


opps, i made an error in my configs sorry about that ;)

to be revisited later :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

ignore :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Any Member not done so, got to nodpi.org and register for the Forum.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

yeah its about time the greater good is taken into consideration with all the new DPI firms starting to appear on the horizon.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

And in the same spirit:

Freedom of choice is fundamental to a modern, civilised society.

If after reading and considering the arguments the choice is made not to have anything to do with Phorm or its ilk, then that choice should be respected. If others choose otherwise then that choice should be respected too.

I choose that my data is not a commodity I wish to share.

I choose to sacrifice the so-called benefits in making this choice.

I choose not to be monitored or profiled either deliberately or as a consequence of the choices of others.

This is my choice and a basic right by historic gift.

No pimping, back door snooping should be allowed to impinge on that right by stealth or it denigrates all those who gifted us with the freedom to choose.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Today over on iii "brachaloch" has posted:

"Ok I called BT again and they still say they are working on some technical issues and that a start date for the trial has not been set. Since BT have stated that they will give at least 48 hours notice to all their customers before the trial starts I think the Monday rumour is a possible attempt to try and boost the share price.

At the moment it doesn’t seem BT is terrible keen to start the trail I think while they are waiting to find out if they are going to have a legal challenge over the previous trails."

This person isn't one to post tit-for-tat stories either (I think he's probably a member here)


:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi, I have gone to
https://nodpi.org/ and there is a problem. The "Forum" and "Events" tabs are not working and if I go to one of the other tabs that are working then the "Home" tab does not work. I have re-entered the site to my favourites but still the same.

My son reports that he keeps getting diconnected while gaming and I have had web pages loading slowly or failing to load etc. for the last few days. We are VM (Oxford area)

More of the same here-
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/inde...S&NewsID=13477


Dave.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hmmmm, from the pcadivsor story posted by DaveTheJag, it contains

Now as I understand it, Webwise is the product name of the service offered by Phorm; it is not a brand created by BT. A small niggle yes but if that detail is confused, how about anything else they have to say?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't understand your NoDPI problems, other people are connecting fine, there have been several registrations today alone.

I can also access the pages fine.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

google webwise and up pops the BBC webwise how confusing is that.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yeah, strange that the BBC are not contesting the fact that phorm are using their name.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Finally found time to listen to Steve Gibson's podcast http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm Boy does he like to talk! Still, very impressive, and his genuine indignation at both what the ISPs are doing and the backgrounds of phorm and NebuAd is very apparent and speaks volumes. Next episode in two weeks 'all about phorm' promises to be a cracker.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Which Internet browser are you using (internet explorer, Firefox etc)?

and

Which operating system (Windows XP, Vista)?

:)

EDIT: Reason for asking - the symptoms you describe can also indicate a parasite (apart from Phorm) on your system - sometimes undetected by conventional av software but easily removed.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Cough.... Ignore It ......Cough ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

As per Mick's previous warnings, you might be better advised to stick to debating people's posts rather than attacking them directly - just a thought ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi Thanks for the help, I am using Internet Explorer 7 and XP Home SP2. I have noticed that "predictive" searches have also gone wrong on ebay and YouTube. I have AVG 7.5 free edition and Spybot running, all up to date. I am a bit of a novice in computers but your help will be appreciated! I have managed to register on NoDPI with my sons help by adding "forum" to the web address.

Thanks again,

Dave.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Which is aimed at children!!!!!!!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Quite a long podcast. (35 mins worth on Phorm and NebuAd)
He claims that Phorm is much worse than NebuAd as NebuAd does not use cookies. In fact the words used are 'unbelievably intrusive'.
But NebuAd does not need the cookies as they use your IP address to track you.

I would suggest that NebuAd is worse.

The podcast in two weeks sounds like it could be very interesting...
Steve says if you have questions for the podcast they can be posted here

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

http://www.webmasterworld.com/search...rs/3679120.htm
"PRincrediBILL
CHere's an emerging story that should concern webmasters and cause the alarms to sound IMO.

When I went to check on the status of Project Rialto today, which runs the PRCrawler, their site proclaimed they are now emerging as Kindsight.

Kindsight is a value-added services provider specializing in network-based security solutions for residential internet use. We deliver an always-on, always-up-to-date security service embedded in internet service providers’ networks to address what we call the “flawed malware defense cycle”.

Sounds good, right?
So why do they crawl?
OK, I won't keep you in suspense, it appears they crawl to "data mine" to find out what your site is about so they can target ads to your, um their, customers!

The Kindsight service, as with other free on-line applications such as search engines and map functions, is funded through an advertising mechanism but without the use of cookies, pop-ups or spam. Instead, we deliver ads on sites that are of interest to the subscriber base.

If they don't use pop-ups, how exactly are they going to show their customers ads?
....
...
"rawler Emerges From Stealth Mode as Kindsight
ISPs to insert their own ads under guise of security software?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Blimey! How many of these damn boxes are going to end up being stacked in my clickstream?

Here is a good emerging rule of thumb: The more the PR spin promises to give me a wonderful sugar coated service and protect my privacy the worse for me the lying *******s are.

I fear we are swimming against the tide here. I think its the end of the cleartext Internet as we know it, https is the way of the future.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Its the new market niche many of these firms think they have found. This is why this campaign has to go further than Phorm.

When we take down Phorm we will be sending a strong message to the rest but they will still need to be dealt with.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Last time I checked, Phorm had not successfully registered the name 'Webwise'.

It was owned by BBC, HP and others, and for overlapping use in the field of IT.

When I last looked it was still open to BBC, HP and others to object to the Webwise registration by Phorm.

Pete.

See here; Webwise trademark registration status is 'advertised'

HP, Xara, or BBC could yet stop Phorm registering Webwise as a trademark (or at least delay it) if they so choose. Other registered users;

Xara, Hewlett-Packard Development Company, British Broadcasting Corporation

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

lets not forget OC that it was the DPI vendors themselves that decided to produce these expanded DPI for profit targeted advertising and related devices, purely to find a way to increase their sales of their limited market ISP/Co-Location internal network DPI kit....

i posted a link to one of those Vendor quotes from http://www.lightreading.com/cdn/ somewere in the thread ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

PS, and Phorms current 'trademark' image isn't registered either. Just some crappy Times New Roman image someone knocked up in Wordpad.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

lets be thick for one min (normal for me) up pops webwise opt in/out site me googles webwise oh its the BBC yeah accept without looking at the other listed finds.
may happen may not but the confusion is there.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Interesting to note that Phorm in the US is meant to be known as Phorm Inc, and Phorm in the UK as Phorm UK Inc.

The note to AIM last year indicated the above, whereas its the other way round on the registration on this link Pete.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

i wonder what would happen to the trademark if lots of people started complaining to the BBC and it's "right to reply" program had to go on air and explain its not them, but kent and Co, your friendly ex rootkit vendor and potential future commercial pirate.....of 70% of the Uk interweb ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It would be interesting - considering the BBC are a Public Service, they are owned by us and must act to reasonable objection.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Worth a shot... http://www.bbc.co.uk/webwise/ click on 'contact Us'
Nothing ventured... nothing gained...

(In black this time)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ok easy ones first - I'm doing this in Vista as I've just uninstalled ie7 (but I think it's the same in xp+ie7) close Internet Explorer and go Start / Control Panel / Internet Options in the "Browsing History" section click the Delete button then in the Delete Browsing History window that opens in the first section "Temporary Internet Files" click the Delete Files button and click Yes at the confirmation.

This will clear Internet Explorer's file cache

When finished click close / apply ok your way back to the desktop

Try the site again

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My message to the BBC.

With all the talk of BT starting trials again with the company Phorm using a product called Webwise. This is going to get confusing to people and the BBC could end up being accused of spying on people who are novices with Internet and PC.s.
Your Webwise is to teach people how to use IT related applications safely we use this with children in school where I used to work.
Phorm webwise is more a targeted adverts platform that ISP's like BT are trying to market as an anti phishing safety. The company Phorm if you check back in their history used to be called 121media. A malware/spyware company that placed rather nasty rootkits on unsuspecting PC's. There is talk that Phorm are about to rebrand as Webwise. For the safety of children and novices this needs to be stopped. It is the novices that Phorm will harvest the most info by piggy backing their every click over the internet, forging cookies and pretending to be the website you requested. They use a layer 7 redirect 4 times before the customer arrives at your website if they requested the BBC.
Please help those very people who need this most and defend your webwise name.
Regards

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Dephormation is back online.

Here's a picture for the Information Commissioner, Richard Thomas. And the Home Office too. And 80/20 while we're on the topic.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/08/10.png

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

hmmm, yeah here's my thought, well Jack Dee's thoughts really, so if i'm gone a while... ho hum ;)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yR3IT1yYyrE