Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Some clarity regarding encryption, the strengths and weaknesses needs to be disseminated to the wider audience who may have to face the dilemma of using encryption in order to stop their ISPs from stabbing the customer in the back through the use of the deep packet inspection abuse. There are thousands of good resources on encryption but I fear most of them are just too technical or too much information for the general public. Of course there are the 'Dummy' guides, but still too much information.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/26.jpg

Expanded picture of book [ LINK ]

I think the entire problem/solution needs to fit on one A4 sheet and from this summary point the interested reader can jump to the next level which would expand the ideas from the summary sheet. The expanded ideas and explanations could lead to further expansion which would lead to further... etc etc

Here is a quick summary

[ * ] Good implementations of encryption are safe (not even the secret service super spooks can break it). One of the weakness in encryption schemes are bad implementations [ Bruce Schneier of Counterpane is a good reference point to explain bad implementation of crypto schemes :: unfortunately Counterpane security has been bought out by a backstabbing unethical company 'British Telecom' BT].

[ * ] The established encryption schemes are not broken they are bypassed
using other methods.

[ * ] Use pass phrases which cannot be guessed at or subject to a dictionary attack. Don't post your password where other people can see them... i.e. a postit note on the side of your monitor or in top draw of your desk. (A good place to keep your passwords is on a locked PDA or in a locked filing cabinet)

[ * ] Generate new private keys and pass phrases on a regular basis, this will ensure the likelyhood of being compromised is reduced to zero.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Too much troll feeding going on. Ignore it and let's get back to what we do best...

Sarah Arnott in the Independent today - her piece on BT and Phorm trials not quite right is it?

Is this the same Sarah Arnott who wrote this:

We can not afford an identity crisis

and this:

Speaking up for technology concerns

Did anyone ever find out if Kent's sister does indeed work for a national newspaper?

Is it his sister in-law, or has she married and not using the Ertrugul name?

Who is Irene? Is she part of the picture?

Where is the PIA?

What's happening at EU Privacy Hearing?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I already have with the autoblog post.

Another huge benefit is that ISPs need more money to crank up the internet speeds to cope with the huge demands being made on it by BBC iplayer etc.
They currently do not make enough out of broadband to invest in this. The extra dosh generated by Phorm will enable them to invest in more capacity, whilst not increasing broadband charges. Maybe even reducing them.
This I see as a benefit to users. The ISPs seem to think so too.
And it will benefit websites who will be able to target their viewers and get greater revenues.
So I do think there are a lot of benefits.
I appreciate that you lot have privacy concerns, but I just don't think they are valid.
If they are valid, you lot will certainly figure out a way to whinge, and Phorm will be tweaked. It will not go away though.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No, that is not what the 'next phase' of the internet is about. The 'next phase' of the internet is faster infrastructure and wider choices of connectivity, including through mobile and other 'non-PC' network enabled devices.

The internet is all about connecting the widest possible network in the simplest, most robust possible way. Always has been, always will be. "monetizing" it is simply what one particular set of internet users would like to get out of that network.

Do not make the mistake of assuming that the rest of the users of that network share your agenda, or that they will tolerate your attempts to alter the architecture of the network to ensure your agenda is served.

The internet does not need you. You need it - so please behave in a manner acceptable to the rest of us.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

ChristT - your visions of the internet are laudable, but not what is happening in a world driven by commerce.
That's why half of the innovations on the net have been driven by porn purveyors.
The net has moved on since it was a handful of geeks sending each other formulas between their uni labs.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

In what sense has it 'moved on'? The technologies that make it work haven't changed. There are more users, doing different things, but the network itself does not need to be 'monetized' to allow these things to happen.

So far as I can see, you are simply trying to justify a business model by associating it with the fundamentals of the network.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

She's selectively quoting this from the ICO which basically says nothing more than they've said before - that they'll be monitoring any trial closely (so that they'll have a clearer idea which laws it breaks)

Frank - Kent's sister is married and she works for The Times.


:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You are happy to give a company that you don't know , and have no direct contact with (or comeback against) access to your own personal details? Not just the the unimportant stuff (like blogs, forums etc), but the important stuff (webmail, ebanking, tax details etc)?

Whether or not Phorm store this data (and I have seen some evidence to suggest they do store 14 days worth for diagnostic purposes) and whether or not they are a trustworthy company, that data *will* attract hackers (why bother hacking etailer websites for a few thousand credit card details when you can hack Virgin's Phorm server and potentially get 3 million). You are placing your personal data in the hands of a company who in a previous incarnation installed root kits on people's PCs apparently without realising.

Let's alter the argument a bit (because I believe if Phorm is allowed to continue, this *will* happen).

How would you feel if a company started listening in on your Phone calls (for "profiling") and targeting adverts to you?

---------- Post added at 12:50 ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 ----------

Which still does not justify spying on users.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

HW - I bought an item yesterday with cash from a well known techy shop. The assistant asked me for my postcode and house number which I refused as he didn't need it for the transaction. Had I given it I expect I would get some junk mail offering me stuff I may or may not want.
I just do not want to be sold too, categorised, tracked, spied on etc.
I understand the technology being used by Phorm, I've been in the business for nearly 35 years ( before PC's coo I'm old) and it is the most intrusive addition to the internet proposed ever. I do not want that to happen and I will do my best to prevent it from happening.
If you have an argument that can convince me otherwise you haven't used it yet.

My main concern is not my personal privacy as I can protect that pretty well myself its all the others that do not have my experience and also the small business website owners (none oix) whose sites data will be profiled to target rival sites products thereby talking revenue from them.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Look out for a Reg Article soon.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

how soon.... before end of trading day ?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hmm Sarah Arnott appears on a lot of Parliament select committee's if you do a Google search on that phrase.

It also seems that Kent's previous incarnation of Phorm, Peopleonpage, was registered through GoDaddy using Domains By Proxy who tell us..

Ohhh the irony

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

stuartc - phorm does not look at encrypted sites, so I don't have a problem. It also does not monitor passwords etc.
Concerns about hackers are irrelevant - if they can hack into the ISPs computers, where the date will be held, then they can hack into everything anyway.

thebarron - I too would not give such details as I don't want cold callers on the phone.
Phorm though doesn't keep any data for any significant period (argue away !) so does not invade my privacy in the same way.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

How do you know what phorm does? Only by what Ertugrul tells you. Do you believe what he says? - he doesn't exactly have a reputation for telling the truth, or even being consistent in his lies. If you were half as smart as you think you are you would realise what a risk BT and phorm investors are taking.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

@HamsterWheel

You know, I disagree with your sentiments on Phorm - but this quote:

"The Rat Race works like a hamster wheel: no matter how fast you run, you still will not get anywhere."

Now thats soo true - I think I'll spend some time reading the rest of your feelings on life, might take a while though - its an 85 page pdf :D

:angel:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06..._banking_loss/

:clap:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I follow Frank's view. By indulging in page after page of verbal table tennis with trolls the worth of genuine contributions here is debased. It makes it more difficult to use the forum to reference valuable information with which to pursue our individual efforts and diverts attention from the very real issues that are being adressed.
One page of constructive discourse is worth more than a hundred pages of tit for tat.

Please ignore trolls

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You've lost me there - there's a few HamsterWheel's on the net. That quote is not one of mine.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

BTW Paivi - Linked in says your position at Phorm is the COO? Care to clarify what your exact position is?

Oh and hey, loving reading your Thai reports

:angel:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Is this a board about privacy concerns, or one about conspiracy theories ?

Paivi ? I keep telling you I'm nowt to do with phorm. Alex will let you know when he returns from his cab shift.

Thai ? - only been there once, what reports are you linking me too ? [purely out of interest....]

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:D

You're rattled lol - didn't think anyone could connect you.

BTW, you missed your trip to Patagonia on your blogs etc.

Oh - and you think I am going to PUBLICLY give the info.

Hey, just to clear up - is it Paivi or Pivi? I mean is it Paivi only when you use the the accent?

Anyways, its established, proven, and out in the open....

You

work

for

Phorm

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No I don't.

As for Patagonia - already been posted on the thread above ! Nice try, but very amateurish.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Pete

Check your PM.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I see there is an ad for Virgin Broadband at the top of this page.
How ironic.

Perhaps if the site owners signed up for Phorm they could have more targetted ads that would be better for the blood pressure of the regulars.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I wonder if they'll post my comment?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

As far as you know.
No. Concerns about hackers are *very* relevant. Phorm will store the data somewhere (even while it's being anoymised, it's still stored). Those phorm servers *could* potentially store a lot of personal information. They will be attacked by hackers because of this. We only have the assurances of a company that accidentally installed root kits on user's PCs that the servers are secure.

Why would a hacker bother with hacking an ecommerce site to get credit card details for a few thousand peoples, when they could hack the Phorm system and get all the credit card details for 10s or 100s of thousands of people?

You have only the assurances of them and their consultants of that.

It's actually a board that attempts to help users with problems.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Let's move on from the debate of whether or not someone is or is not who they might be thought to be. By it's nature the internet does allow a level of anonyminity. Unless someone wants to admit to something, it won't easily be proveable.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

sorry i dont see adverts must be some thing to with a plug in ABP and adaware removing the ad`s saving me bandwidth, which is something we cannot do with phorm is block it stop it, hence the move to a non phorm isp.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Stuart - Ernst & Young have done a full privacy audit on what Phorm does. And they will no doubt regularly update it. And BT, Virgin and CPW will also have done their own work on the privacy aspects and data retention.

If you are going to say that you still don't trust them, then one wonders if you could ever trust anyone or any commercial organisation ?

And if there are any shenanigans, then BT etc will be the first to scream as it is their reputations that will be on the line.

Harping back to Phorm's background is getting a bit turgid now. The company is rather different now and has a hugely heavyweight board that would not be involved in anything inherently dodgy.

---------- Post added at 14:24 ---------- Previous post was at 14:23 ----------

Wildie - very happy that you don't see the ads, but without the revenue generated by them, the board would obviously not exist would it ?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'd imagine you're right, and if you want to know a user's interests you'd ideally want to identify the root pages commonly visited by them, as many of them will be the user's bookmarks - which would typically be given away by the presence of a cookie and no referer in the header of the initial request.

If I was designing a MITM system, I'd be very tempted to capture a hash of the user's cookie whenever they are updated for those sites, that way I'd have a good chance of IDing them next time they visit the site from their initial request just by comparing the cookie hash.

Only manipulating the datastream to read a user's master cookie when you need to, would make it less likely for end-users to notice the interventions and also minimise the risk of causing browsing artifacts. If that is what Nebuad are doing, then Phorm's system is very primative in comparisson.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yep.:D Seem to be a lot of anti phorm gags in the comments.:D:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That NebuAs looks very nasty - we should all demand Phorm instead.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

HamsterWheel,

I fully understand that you're in support of Phorm, however I am curious as to how even supporters of theirs can not have concerns. Let me explain.

Everytime Phorm or an ISP are asked about the 'opt out' they always tack on a line at the end of the answer, something along the lines of 'If you opt out no traffic will be sent from the ISP to phorm. We should be clear: the Phorm servers are located in the ISP's network and browsing data is not transmitted outside the ISP.'

So this indicates that whilst you may be able to 'opt out' from the targeting of adverts, you cannot opt out from being profiled. Further evidence of this can be found by the very fact that TalkTalk have confirmed they are looking at a switch based 'opt out' to completely bypass Phorm, this again indicates that Phorms 'Opt out' is not a real opt out.

Also whilst Phorm argue that there is no degredation in service quality, we know that numerous redirects take place that will have to increase the time it takes for a page to get served to your machine (even if it is a few extra milliseconds).

So to simplify, given that many people are concerned that there is no real 'Opt out' and that Internet performance maybe affected. Do you think that people do not have a right to be able to really decide for themselves if they want to use this service, do we not have a right to be able to entirely bypass Phorms systems so that our Internet access works exactly as it has always worked, with no additional redirects or data being mirrored to profilers.

Phorm have never once provided any suitable answers to these and many other questions. Let me put it this way, if Phorm was introduced as an 'Opt In' system, and if I decided not to opt in and my traffic was never changed from how it works today, then I would have no problem with Phorm at all. The facts are that Phorm does not work this way, it has no 'opt out', it is trying to trick people by launching with a default 'opt-in' policy.

All Phorm has to do for me is prove that I can really opt out, and that if I opt out my Internet connection is not going to be degraded. They have failed to prove these very simple things and I can't help but wonder why.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

!!PLEASE STOP TALKING TO IT ( :) ), IT IS JUST TRYING TO DILUTE THE SUBJECT WITH HIS PROPAGANDA!!

But on a side note.

I will be going to the protest and bringing at least one person, + a HDD Camera + a good SLR digital camera & a couple of lenses. I work as IT Manager so i can print off some stuff (as much as i want for free). If anyone wants some A3/A4 colour stuff let me know and i will arrange it for the day. I will record the entire thing and host it on my website (unlimited bandwidth) for everyone.

If anyone has some suggestions of what else i should bring (digital projector?) let me know
some cds/dvds with the leaked report or some other factual information?

-Jtech

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

She.. HamsterWheel is a she..

:angel:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Even if they don't sign up to phorm, perhaps we will see a new form of forum spamming - where spammers join the forum to post off-site links to their own phorm advert carrying site/blog, so that people who click on the spammers link see an advert targetted for them based on the content they've been reading on this site anyway.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Moderators, do we really have to put up with this?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

already reported.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Lots of shares being bought at the moment, in big lumps.


http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareTrades.asp...re=phorm_reg_s

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well, it is a friday;):angel::D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Firstly I never threatened to hit you, I said I doubt I would be able to resist the urge despite my usual calm and passive attitude. The two are significantly different.

As for the CapitalOne link, is that the best you can do? Link to a forum thread about illegal business practises by CapitalOne to try and taint my reputation?

So let me get this right, you are trying to make me look bad to stop me destroying your investment any more than it already has been (an investment in ILLEGAL activities) and you do this by posting links to me standing up against yet more ILLEGAL activities by CapitalOne.

So basically you are reinforcing the fact that I refuse to stand back and allow companies to break the law? Thanks for the promotion.

You truly are a strange strange boy.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi Alex !

Here's what you said - I tool it as a threat. "I would suggest you don't come to the protest I doubt, despite my usual good temperament, that I would be able avoid giving you the physical smack in the face you so rightly deserve."

What is it about Alexes and the theat of violence ? First you, and now Big Brother !!

I only posted the credit card link as you were suggesting that I was posting on this board when i was not. For some reason you seem to think I am the only person in the world who is not anti-phorm. If you have a pop at me, I will reply.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well as a BT shareholder I have access to details which made me think why phorm when the CEO can be paid £850,000 a year a leaving CEO gets a bonus of £700,000 with another £300,000 for what they have done for years 2008/9
Another BT manager will get a pay rise from £654,000 approx to £850,000 maybe they need to plough some of this over payments back into the company and things would work out better dephormed.
I block all adverts unless I am looking for something so for 95% of the year they are blocked, but I have 5 websites I pay for and place content in them which I refuse to allow phorm to harvest keywords from….

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

As much as I hate to feed the troll... that last sentence just boils my blood. The net isn't supposed to be a tiered system where people with more money, or people willing to take advertsiements can get a better quality of service. It is meant to be neutral. Net Neutrality is the key principle of the internet, a principle that ensures everyone receives the same service regardless of the ISP they use.

Granted, some people will pay more for a faster connection, which is something I don't agree with. It is just another form of tiering, albeit one which allows someone with a tight budget to still get access to the internet.

But once the kind of systems that Phorm and NebuAd offer gain traction in ISPs, we will start to see a new level of tiering, a new kind of 'the haves and have-nots'. At the moment, the promise of these systems is that the adverts you see will be better targetted for you. The next step is to do as you suggest which is to offer more incentives for letting them monitor your intenet activity and make money off of it.

That is morally wrong.

If they need to make more money from their customers, they should increase the premium for the broadband service. Simply offering broadband cheaply(or for free) and then skimming surfing habits off of you in order to sell advertisers your eyeballs is thoroughly evil and needs to be stopped before it can begin.

As an aside, the whole cookie method of stating your preference for these systems is pathetic. For the privacy conscious, like myself, deleting cookies when you kill a browser session is the accepted way of protecting yourself. When the cookie is the only way of opting out of these systems, you will find that you may be opted in permanently for being a smart internet user and deleting your cookies.

The whole situation stinks. Moreover, it stinks of businesses once again thinking they have the right to any and all data they can get their hands on.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

JohnnyWashngo.

Sorry, but don't agree. The net is just another utility. If you use more gas, you pay more. Electricity, water, the same.
If you use more bandwidth, someone has to provide it. They can't do that if no-one pays for it.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The same Ernst and Young who were recently suspended from doing such reports for the US government because of dodgy dealings? The same company who did a similar report on Enron if I remember correctly and weren't they also included in the WorldCom scandal?

Oh and on a final note, Ernst and Young the company that wrote an analysis based on US law and the company Kent has an historical background with?

Keep trying I am enjoying the laugh.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 15:25 ---------- Previous post was at 15:21 ----------

That will just give us more to laugh at when the price plummets again next week.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Excuse me but Phorm doesn't pay for the internet networks we have paid for what we use all the time I am lucky if I use 5 gig a month and pay each month for a 45 gig allowence. What gets me the most is we pay to access the internet yet you want to come allong and earn money from our paid for surfing habits..
Now to get this right you want to earn money from surfing clicks start your own ISP see if people will sign up to phormISP free surfing paid for by the clicks might get some...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thank you for confirming what I already stated in reply earlier, I said I "doubt" I could resist, not "I am going to smack you".

Funny how you fail to see the difference.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Alex - you sound a bit desperate when you have to resort to knocking one of the Big 4 firms of accountants to try and prove a point.
If you're not going to trust them to do anything then you must not trust them to audit banks or any companies, and therefore you cannot risk having a bank account or going shopping, or leaving the house really.

I keep telling you that to get any credibility in your quest you should concentrate your attacks on areas that you have a chance against. Or else you just come across as something of a rabid ranter.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This really is all I require from Phorm, too. If it can be proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the system is truly OPT-IN and that, by default, all trafic goes nowhere near any profiling kit or undergoes no redirects etc, then my (and I assume many others' objections) will largely disappear. This, for me, is the big get-out (stay-out?) of jail card for those wishing to force this system on unsuspecting members of the public who may wander blindly into being tracked and monetised.
As an idea I can see that Webwise may well appeal to certain people and they may well feel that it enhances their web experience. Unfortunately, for it to be less distasteful and truly transparent, let it prove its worth by letting people make a positive decision to sign up to it. If it really is the holy grail and all that it's cracked-up to be, ordinary people will be flocking to enable it. If it's a piece of old tosh then it'll die a quick death. The point is, it should live or die on its own merits, not be slipped under the radar and enabled by stealthy means on unsuspecting users' PC's.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No I don't trust Ernst and Young even remotely, they are one of the most douchebag companies on the planet. Furthermore I would NEVER trust an accounting firm to do a Privacy Assessment, simply because they are not qualified to do so, they are accountants not privacy or human rights lawyers and as accountants they have a vested interest in seeing companies like Phorm succeed.

Anyway I have had enough of your vitriol for one day, welcome to ignore.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

So she is


Wow - I really like feisty women hammy if I email you will you add me as a friend on Facebook?


Pleeeeeeeeeeeese


:kiss:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Shame really - there was a time when this thread was looking like it was going to do some good.

Now it just looks like all the good energies that had been concentrated here are just being channeled into fighting each other.

My honest opinion? Just ignore those people that you know to be doing no more than trying to stir things up - if you don't you'll hand them what they want: a) this thread closed so you can't do any more good, and b) a serious threat to Phorm discredited.

Come on people, you've accomplished so much already - you're better than this!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Guys - let me in on the joke - who is this woman I'm supposed to be ?!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Many ISPs (BT included) already include caps on some tariffs, thus limiting the bandwidth you can use.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

They do, which just goes to show there is a bandwidth problem that needs the ISPs to commit billions of pounds to replace the networks. Without some serious revenue to help them do it, it won't happen....

Enter Phorm, stage left....

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

There are better ways to do it rather than pimping peoples data.

Increase prices, stop rolling out unachievable speeds, stop giving away 'free' broadband.

We would all like something for nothing, unfortunately it can't realistically happen.

Why do we need all this bandwidth and speed? When broadband was first launched we had the dizzy speed of 512k, it was perfectly adequate at the time.
Now, because the media want to deliver streaming video and TV it has to be faster and faster.
The iPlayer is blamed for the bandwidth bottleneck. then along comes c4 and itv on demand.
Well maybe the media should be stumping up some cash to improve the delivery medium? (this isn't the place for that debate)

data pimping is not the answer
Exit Phorm stage right..... and keep on moving.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No there is no need to use phorm and break privacy and customer trust.. The main issue is the fact like many they failed to invest in the networks and started to give higher and higher wages to the fat cats.... This will improve nothing in the structure of the internet since it will by nature destablise the structure of the internet and the integrity of the surfing.

Been through proxies for years they were a total waste of space and money it cost to run them.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

So is the UK supposed to drop behind the rest of the world in web speeds ?

Some of the arguments against Phorm seem to miss the point that the internet is a commercial space that must be financed, not (unfortunately) a free resource.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Analysts at Investec Securities said the Open Internet Exchange could generate £85 million, or $167 million in annual revenue for BT alone by 2009.

Hardly the billions to replace the network. BT have made no indication that they would invest the profits from Phorm/Webwise in providing faster or cheaper internet access.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The figures don't seem to add up though. The revenue that an ISP can expect from implementing phorm is a tiny proportion of what they get from subscriptions. They'd be better off just charging their customers a little more.

Personally I'm already paying a premium for my connection because I value the quality of service I get. I'm with Zen if you where wondering.

Edit: £85M / 4M Bt Retail customers = £21 per customer per year - that's less than £1.80 a month. This is based on an optimistic revenue estimate too.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I feel this discussion currently is going around and around endlessly serving no useful purpose except to water down our good anti phorm comments and provoking unnecessary bad behaviour. It is as though we are stuck on a hamster wheel.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The rest of the world have been able to increase connection speeds without the use of the type of technology that is being proposed here.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

thats odd what cam and what linux distro?

you should be able to simply use VLC (that being the easyest and probably the best option anyway), especially if you can find the right CLI/shell command to use to make it quick and easy for any *Nix.

iv had no luck finding the exact options for you, but heres a start.

i assume your cam is in the
http://www.exploits.org/v4l list.

http://www.videolan.org/doc/streamin...o/en/ch10.html
Software encoding cards

and rather than Stream to the network/web with VLC replace the right cli comands to save the file instead.

the keyword parts in red
"...


where:

• /dev/video is the device corresponding to your acquisition card or your webcam,
• norm=secam is name of the standard of the analogic signal (possible values are pal, secam, and ntsc) ,
• frequency=543250 is the frequency of the channel in kHz (Warning : for VLC < 0.6.1, Frequency is channel frequency in MHz multiplied by 16),
• size=640x480 is the size of the video you want (you can also put the standard size like subqcif (128x96), qsif (160x120), qcif (176x144), sif (320x240), cif (352x288) or vga (640x480)),
• channel=0 is the number of the channel (usually 0 is for tuner, 1 for composite and 2 for svideo),
• adev=/dev/dsp is the audio device,
• audio=1 is the number of the audio channel (usually 0 is for mono and 1 for stereo),
• vcodec=mp4v is the video format you want to encode in (mp4v is MPEG-4, mpgv is MPEG-1, and there is also h263, DIV1, DIV2, DIV3, I420, I422, I444, RV24, YUY2),
• acodec=mpga is the audio format you want to encode in (mpga is MPEG audio layer 2, a52 is A52 i.e. AC3 sound),
• vb=3000 is the video bitrate in Kbit/s
• ab=256 is the audio bitrate in Kbit/s
• venc=ffmpeg allows to set the encoder to use, where:
  • keyint=80 is the maximal amount of frames between two key frames
  • hurry-up allows the encoder to decrease the quality of the stream if the CPU can't keep up with the encoding rate
  • vt=800000 is the tolerance in kbit/s for the bitrate of the outputted video
• deinterlace tells VLC to deinterlace the video on the fly,
• 192.168.0.42 is either:
  • the IP address of the machine you want to unicast to;
  • or the DNS name the machine you want to unicast to;
  • or a multicast IP address.
• 12 is the value of the TTL (Time To Live) of your IP packets (which means that the stream will be able to cross 11 routers).
• ...
• "

not tryed this ,but im thinking something like this using VLC might be a very good thing for our purpose, both for the 30 second protests and perhaps even a laptop on the spot BT protest VLC video " the People speak Out" collection to be compiled into several video "Point OF view" comments for the NoDPI video collection.

http://blog.raphinou.com/2007/08/bui...h-vlc-ion.html

http://wiki.videolan.org/Documentati...encoding_cards

http://www.videolan.org/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Wrong, if you spend unnecessary millions on ad-campaigns and not on your network,word of mouth advertising is the best form of advertising, the fact they giveaway cheap deals which they cannot support, the fact they oversubscribe their networks instead of investing in it, ISP companies such as Be* do invested in their network and are not oversubscribe, they do not need Phorm to pay for the bandwidth, good business practice is the way forward, not some spyware company like Phorm who piggy back on the backs of not so well run ISP.

If Phorm is so good, then start your own ISP, see how long you last..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What a price to pay for speed you can have speed but surrender your privacy no thanks I am happy with my 6meg ADSL line it is faster than I used to get at peak time on VM which I cancelled due to phorm.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Nope.

From my time in Japan I have to tell you that they have fibre optic to the door and no adverts inserted into their browser. How do they acheive fast speeds without pimping personal data? They invest in their telecommunications infrastructure and charge for it.

Trying to sell yoru customers surfing data on the 'we can fund faster internet intrastructure' ticket is a no go.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Today, there may be. I’m sure, in ten years’ time, we’ll look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. The introduction of large-scale video services is currently outpacing improvements in ISPs’ network hardware. The networks will catch up. The suggested income per subscriber per month isn’t that high – nowhere near enough to make much of a dent in new infrastructure costs. When the hardware has caught up, we’ll still be left with ISP-level behavioural targeting. Only, just as every other technology will have moved on, so will behavioural targeting. We won’t be stuck with Phorm, but son of Phorm – something far, far more intrusive than what’s initially planned and possibly even more intrusive than you’re currently able to imagine.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

On a side note, BT have been sending out those mailshots again...

We’d like to thank you for being a loyal BT Broadband customer by offering you a permanent saving of £4 a month on your BT Total Broadband¹ – plus a little something more – your choice of a fantastic free thank you gift worth up to £49².

And the free gift?


Canon Pixma all-in-one photo printer – print, copy and scan the fast and easy way
or
Digital photo frame – watch a slideshow with a choice of effects or choose single or thumbnail views
or
Samsung 2GB MP3 player – listen to up to 1,000 music tracks on the move

and now the catch....

1) 12-month contract term applies. By accepting this promotion, you confirm you are the account holder or have the account holder’s permission to participate in this offer. £4 a month discount is available to BT Total Broadband Option 3 customers currently paying £26.99 a month. New price therefore £22.99 a month. Payment by Direct Debit required. Prices and offer correct at time of email send.

The ISP's complain that they can't afford to spend the money on upgrading infrastructure etc... then send round mailshots offering to cut £4 a month off the bill plus the free gift.

That is a loss to them of £48 a year plus the cost of the gift per customer... if I recall correctly (please correct me if I am wrong), from the loose calculations made earlier in this thread on the revenue they would get from Phorm, this 'offer' would wipe out any profit they would make on phorm?!

certifiable...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

12-month contract term applies
Check those terms and conditions for material changes!
A nice little sweetener to opt you into the webwise trial??

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thats another thing BT, VM and Talktalk alltie you into a 12 month contract my new ISP has monthly contracts I can move and return anytime I want...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

At what point, I wonder, would the advocates of Phorm say, "OK, that's a bit too far"?

For the sake of argument, let us assume that function creep does occur and that Webwise morphs into something that decides, based on your profile, not only the ads you see, but the content of the pages and also starts firing off targeted emails etc.

Where do you draw the line? Is it only acceptable in its current form, or are you willing to give it more access. When you get an email about a month before your childs birthday along the lines of, "Why not buy little Timmy one of those computer games he's interested in, particularly X or Y", is that the time you start to think it's gone a bit beyond its initial scope and what we were all promised?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Compensation Claim. The ICO said I was entitled to a compensation claim due to contraventions of their Regulations.

I did suffer quantifiable damage so this is now in progress ...

I am wondering though how many others who knew they were part of the trials are seeking / have sought compensation?

Those who were part of the trials, but did not know about it at the time, could they seek compensation too?

Has anyone written to BT requesting DP info had it confirmed that they were part of the trials?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yep, my thoughts entirely.

Although I also found this part interesting...

By accepting this promotion, you confirm you are the account holder or have the account holder’s permission to participate in this offer

I haven't clicked the "renew" button in the email because I don't want to renew, but the wording suggests that the act of accepting is enough to confirm your identity to BT, or have the account holders permission. I wonder what further checks (if any) are performed? :rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

only time you see them emails is when you out of contract.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Non sequitor, all this talk about they need this cash from the likes of Phorm etc, always Ignores the basic 101 of Business facts.

you take the money your customers are paying for the service/product and Re-Invest the right % of that customer income into the service/product to keep the money flowing ,and service the paying USERS to a very high % of what they ARE PAYING YOU for.

you dont steal it and give it to your BOD and the Investors, ONLY AFTER you have re-Invested in the Service/Product do you then take the remaining profits and share it out to the BOD/Investors.

virtually Every single person that accesses the internet ,be it End Users or Website Owners, pays this cash to the Services/products, and the Companys need to once again re-invest that cash into the networks and related kit, we are paying them to do that, they are choseing to not re-invest the
required amounts at the right times.

its clear and long term Bad business practice that THEY need to sort out PDQ, and not by fleecing the customers through a 3rd party for ever more cash.

we have already payed the full re-investment Network cash (In Advance of services used, in many cases), month in month out, simple.

as maxhdrm Smack-Fu Master said: about the US BB markets, it also holds true here in the UK as well.

"This country lacks innovation because creativity has become stifled over the years by greed and "playing safe" attitudes by corporations afraid to spend money on new and revolutionary ideas.

All we need is for one person to "buck" the system and set precedence for change to occur"
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/...m/674000192931

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

oh and the funny part... BT's mailshot got junked by outlooks junk filter. :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

then put the price up... Dont sell our personal info to dodge-city-spyware inc.

Edited to add... I got the postal version of that stupendous BT free gift offer this morning..
(despite having left BT 3 months ago for a non-phormed ISP)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

3 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms 217.47.73.13
4 26 ms 24 ms 24 ms 217.41.167.6
5 24 ms 26 ms 26 ms 217.41.176.9
6 25 ms 23 ms 24 ms 217.41.176.66
7 26 ms 25 ms 24 ms 217.41.176.134
8 27 ms 24 ms 26 ms 217.41.176.62
9 24 ms 24 ms 27 ms 217.47.111.113
10 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms 217.32.171.209
another one added
not looking good all that bouncing inside

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Lets get rid of this myth once and for all, because I saw a similar quote in the Indy article about content owners stumping up:

"there have been suggestions that content providers should contribute to bandwidth costs"

Content owners already pay for bandwidth. Unlike domestic users, they generally pay by the gig (with a certain amount bundled with the rental).

The net is currently fair because all sides pay towards transport.

Not our fault that *some* ISPs have a knackered funding model. They need to get more into the server market to balance rising data usage against falling domestic rental prices with higher bandwidth.

Okay, P2P doesn't help, so why not look at billing users by the gB upload. Come up with some fair pricing and the market will judge. Competition inevitably means that some ISPs who haven't guessed the market will go bust. Boo hoo - welcome to capitalism.

But at what point does the Phorm debate have anything to do with infrastructure other than a cheap soundbite from Phorm Inc. claiming they're the saviour of the net market.

Best estimates of revenue I saw was a few pounds per user per year. How is this going to fund a multi-billion investment in backhaul (fibre-to-the-door)?

BT have the go ahead to increase line rental in rural areas. This is bad news for many villagers, but again Phorm won't help. Why will a rural user bring more money per connection than an urban user from Phorm? Are rural types click-through adicts? Do they succomb to advertising more than city folk.

No, the Phorm debate is simply about the value the behavioural targetting brings to content owners versus the intrusion and risks of putting the kit in an ISP, and the consequential buggering about with protocols (THREE REDIRECTS).

A good friend of mine who's in his 90's once told me about campaigning for anything to keep your message relevant and to the point if you want to win the argument.

The risks outweigh the benefits.

There are benefits, undoubtably, that will benefit ISPs, content owners and advertisers.

There are risks, that threaten privacy and data security and break web applications which use IE identifier but yet aren't expecting redirects, aren't expecting interstitial pages.

The benefits are small and the risks are high.

---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------


Were you on BT business broadband at the time?

I thought BT wasn't going to roll Phorm out on Business Broadband, but I spent ages last summer diagnosing a TCP duplicate ACK and out-of-sequence ACK at the office I worked at exactly the time Phorm second trial.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes I was on BT Business Broadband. So that goes to prove that business communications were intercepted and profiled.

Who knows how many small businesses, GP practices, MPs, home workers, were also intercepted?

Back in March / Feb, on the now defunct BT Webwise Q&A thread, I asked if BT Business was to be part of the new system.

I was told by a spokesperson that it was not. But how can I believe that this is true when they clearly tapped my business communications last year?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

"Okay, P2P doesn't help, so why not look at billing users by the gB upload. Come up with some fair pricing and the market will judge.

Competition inevitably means that some ISPs who haven't guessed the market will go bust. Boo hoo - welcome to capitalism."


again, thats clear and long term Bad business practice that THEY need to sort out PDQ.

there have existed for a very long time now, cacheing P2p U1 servers that can be placed inside the Internal Networks of all the ISPs and Co-Location sites around the world.

that one off, single small investment can bring this growing P2p traffic to virtually zero cost in external traffic, a few extra costs mid term on the ballance sheet perhaps, but the Long term savings are only going to vastly improve their long term bottom line...and the bankers etc will like that.

they can also spend a microscopic amount of money compared to the long term External Bandwidth cost savings they will make, by paying a few Professional coders to contribute to the free P2p/Torrent codebase, so as to do "best effort" to keep 80% + of this traffic inside the Internal network and Peered Co-Location sites.

finally by far the largest saving long term, and far more benefitial all round, including the end users, is to turn Multicasting ON to each and every single end users PCs and help code up all the current P2p/torrent, Video streaming services and codebases to make use of that mass bandwidth Multcasting, in "Near On Demand" type wrappers....etc.

mega savings to be had there , if they showed some initative and inovation,
hell Multicasting already exists in every single ISP router and related kit TODAY,so doesnt cost anything substantial to turn it ON, Infact they go out of their way to turn it OFF (its already in there and powered up), Madness...
check out the old "MBONE" for real old innovation todays ISP and software devs have forgotten about.
http://search.virginmedia.com/result...=t9&q=MBONE&cr=

but as you say thats not really related to the Phorm threat, just showing yet more clear and long term Bad business practice that THEY need to sort out.

just one more "Bad Business Practice" from most of the worlds largest ISPs to add to the ever growing list.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes I tried videolan and had no problems grabbing the video but couldn't capture sound at the same time. I have been using VLC for many years so I am somewhat familiar with how to do this the problem I seem to have is forcing VLC to use /dev/dsp1 for the audio capture.

I will have another look at it over the weekend, I have been tied up all day today and most of last night by other business.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Have you spoken to Chris Williams and/or Charles Arthur about your developments with the ICO? I wonder what will happen in the face of several hundred or even thousand claims for compensation?

I just wonder if suddenly evidence will be uncovered proving who was and wasn't Phormed.

But that would then lead to a new problem for BT - if they could prove someone wasn't in the trial, then hopefully the ICO could be pursuaded that they can then conclude that everyone else WAS in the trial.

So then instead of 100s they have 1000s of claims!

Good news indeed. Great work keeping this going with the ICO!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The way the large ones work that have long contracts is what needs to be sorted not the customers.

Our surfing, is Private our Privacy has to be our problem to look after. I actually find I get a bigger return each year on my TSB shares than I ever have on BT so it isnt going to shareholders. The money is going into high wages who needs £850,000 a year wage, who can get a £50,000 pay rise or one over £100,000 thjose in managment that are not handling it correctly.. So why will phorm help the small man who pays for his connection?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=13477

If anyone thinks oix webwise etc are being mirrored to the U.S, I think they should complain to the ICO before the test begins!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes, I update Chris Williams regularly.

The 1000s of claims is a possibility. It could be that victims of the trials "could" be entitled to compensation but it does depend on other factors which is dependent on if BT are prosecuted in some way.

In my case it is crystal clear - there was quantifiable damage to my business. The ICO have given me a green light and I am encouraged after taking legal advice.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Nice to hear frank and i hope you take them all to the cleaners for the damage and distress you had and hope it opens up cases for many more and gets the word out properly to the many other claims that still dont know what is happening.

Hamsterwheel we heard all of this kent talk before off kent himself at the town hall meeting nothing you have been saying is changing from what kent said back then to what you say now so nothing has changed :P.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Don't forget those damages extend to all the -time- you have spent on this issue as well, including the time you have spent in the last couple of months trying to get information from ICO, any time you spent troubleshooting the problem and any time you spent buying a new computer and setting it up. All this time should be billed at your professional rate and will probably add up to a lot more than the cost of the actual computer itself.

Then you should apply for punitive damages if you feel your company was negatively effected by the situation (for example, did you lose any potential customers due to downtime, did you have any problems which were noticed by your clients which could have led to a negative opinion of your professionalism).

Don't just hold the damages at the cost of the PC, you have spent, I expect, hundreds if not thousands of hours on this issue and BT should be liable for all of that.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I checked the IPs and they all are from Sheffield

I think this will make a few ears prop up - 'BT 21CN Complex (Sheffield) QUIETLY goes Live':

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3...goes-live.html

21CN Webpage:

http://www.btplc.com/21cn/

And the IPs:

(217.41.167....)

http://www.robtex.com/cnet/217.41.167.html

May be nothing - may be something, anyone with better skills, please look into.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Glancing at my stats again, finally been hit by the msnbot, but live.com still doesn't index even though I've verified the site on their webmaster page(useless).

New "browser":
"serial, do you read all the stats?"

LOL, could agent strings be the new method of secret communication :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I thought the Login was insecure on the BT Forums & other parts of BT, but I've just discovered an area where the BT Forum site also publishes BT Account User Logon Names.

I have logged & captured the particular area, but will not publish it here because I would be compounding their lax security procedures!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

BadPhorm is blocking you?! :D

You need to be a little bit more truthful about why you aren't welcome over on BadPhorm if you don't want the same treatment over here on CF forum. You went out of your way to be deliberately provocative and you was banned because you are a lameduck troll and a Phorm shill. ;)

Hamster you have made several references to your interest in ladies clothing so I've got to ask are you female? (as in born female)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The security now podcast:
http://media.GRC.com/sn/SN-149.mp3

I really like Steve's podcasts, he always tries to keep his language as simple as possible so that a wider audience can understand.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

In follow up the above information
http://12078.net/grcnews/article.php...feedback#72608

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Meglena Kuneva's presentation in London;

http://euroalert.net/en/news.aspx?idn=7439

---------- Post added at 19:50 ---------- Previous post was at 19:46 ----------

Frank if you need finance to get decent lawyers involved, I would like to contribute a small amount, and I'm sure others might too.

Its really important we take this into our own hands now.

The authorities have completely failed.

If you win your case the ICO have egg all over their faces. Lazy sods.