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-   -   Eurozone will collapse... (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33678876)

Damien 07-05-2013 23:49
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Yeah kinda harsh on Cameron. Besides he isn't in a position to back down from the referendum but he clearly wants it on his terms and as a carrot for the election.

Sirius 08-05-2013 00:03
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35569221)
Yeah kinda harsh on Cameron. Besides he isn't in a position to back down from the referendum but he clearly wants it on his terms and as a carrot for the election.
If he wants my vote at the next election he needs to bring in the legislation required before the election that the referendum will happen and he should make it so the others cannot cancel it.

Chris 08-05-2013 09:14
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeman (Post 35569212)
But he didnt exactly lie. Gorden signed the treaty BEFORE the GE. Once the treaty was signed it was too late it was already law no going back without a FULL withdral which was not the pledge.

He also made it VERY clear BEFORE the election that a referendum would not be possiable due to the above, the referendum was nevr part of the manafasto and that was the exact reason this pledge became an election promise
He didn't lie, but neither did he tell the whole truth, and that can get you in equal heaps of trouble in court.

The referendum was cancelled because once a treaty is signed it becomes part of the overall stuff of the EU and ceases to exist as a distinct document that can be voted on and rejected. So Cameron was right to that extent. But on the other hand, he knew the limitations of his promise when he made it, and failed to be clear about it.

Osem 08-05-2013 09:46
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35569284)
He didn't lie, but neither did he tell the whole truth, and that can get you in equal heaps of trouble in court.

The referendum was cancelled because once a treaty is signed it becomes part of the overall stuff of the EU and ceases to exist as a distinct document that can be voted on and rejected. So Cameron was right to that extent. But on the other hand, he knew the limitations of his promise when he made it, and failed to be clear about it.
I think it's called "being economical with the truth"...

Sirius 08-05-2013 10:01
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35569288)
I think it's called "being economical with the truth"...
Something i now expect from Cameron. He seems to be very good at wording a reply that can be taken in more than one way.

Osem 08-05-2013 10:19
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35569295)
Something i now expect from Cameron. He seems to be very good at wording a reply that can be taken in more than one way.
That's nothing new these days sadly - New Labour turned spin into an art form and we can expect it from most of our politicians now. To some extent we are to blame for that since we expect them to be frank and 'say it like it is' but then want to vote them out as soon as they start telling us what we don't want to hear.

I believe this is the main reason UKIP has done recently well but the pressure will now be on them not to be drawn down the same route and start delivering on their promises.

Sirius 08-05-2013 13:09
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35569308)
That's nothing new these days sadly - New Labour turned spin into an art form and we can expect it from most of our politicians now. To some extent we are to blame for that since we expect them to be frank and 'say it like it is' but then want to vote them out as soon as they start telling us what we don't want to hear.

I believe this is the main reason UKIP has done recently well but the pressure will now be on them not to be drawn down the same route and start delivering on their promises.
Ukip will be my new heroes if they manage to get in and give us that referendum. :)

Damien 08-05-2013 13:15
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35569386)
Ukip will be my new heroes if they manage to get in and give us that referendum. :)
They won't get in though. They could theoretically spoil the Conservatives party and stop a referendum if they do well enough in 2015. I think a referendum is a given anyway now, no party would want to be seen to go back on it.

Sirius 08-05-2013 14:12
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35569388)
They won't get in though. They could theoretically spoil the Conservatives party and stop a referendum if they do well enough in 2015. I think a referendum is a given anyway now, no party would want to be seen to go back on it.

Thats good news to me, however i don't trust Labour or the Libs to make it a real referendum, they will make sure there is only one outcome and that is the one they want. Sell our souls and our sovereignty to Brussels and Berlin.

Damien 08-05-2013 14:34
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35569407)
Thats good news to me, however i don't trust Labour or the Libs to make it a real referendum, they will make sure there is only one outcome and that is the one they want. Sell our souls and our sovereignty to Brussels and Berlin.
Cameron is trying quite hard to get the answer he wants too. I think the referendum will ask the same question irrespective of who wins the election. Where I think Cameron has been smart, and shown his true motivations, is this 'renegotiated' deal that he wants to vote for. The question won't be if we want to stay in the EU or leave. It will be if we want to take the new deal or leave.

I posted a few months ago the polling numbers. Leaving Europe is a close call. However if the question involves the a renegotiated deal for Britain then there is a clear majority who want to stay.

Cameron is going to come back from Europe with some, likely very small, concessions and position it as a new deal as this will likely give him the answer he wants. It wouldn't hurt if the Eurozone has calmed down by 2017 either.

I think we're getting the referendum but I don't think you're going to get the result you want. Cameron and the rest will do everything they can to ensure the referendum happens under the term they want.

Sirius 08-05-2013 15:34
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35569416)
Cameron is trying quite hard to get the answer he wants too. I think the referendum will ask the same question irrespective of who wins the election. Where I think Cameron has been smart, and shown his true motivations, is this 'renegotiated' deal that he wants to vote for. The question won't be if we want to stay in the EU or leave. It will be if we want to take the new deal or leave.

I posted a few months ago the polling numbers. Leaving Europe is a close call. However if the question involves the a renegotiated deal for Britain then there is a clear majority who want to stay.

Cameron is going to come back from Europe with some, likely very small, concessions and position it as a new deal as this will likely give him the answer he wants. It wouldn't hurt if the Eurozone has calmed down by 2017 either.

I think we're getting the referendum but I don't think you're going to get the result you want. Cameron and the rest will do everything they can to ensure the referendum happens under the term they want.
Thats WHY i don't trust him. The EU will sell some sort of deal with him so he gets the yes vote. Tthen a year or so later he will sign us over to Brussels and Berlin and we will have lost everything that meant anything to this country.

We will be back in the red with the Euro around our necks and Brussels setting our taxes, wages, laws and anything else the think we should not have the right to control. GOD help us

Chris 08-05-2013 15:57
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Quote:
The eurozone's financial sector will “drown” in “self-defeating” regulation, which will eventually "destroy" the healthy banks, as the single-currency bloc breaks apart, says the boss of Denmark’s Saxo Bank.

Lars Seier Christensen, chief executive of Saxo Bank, said it was clear that the eurozone would eventually break up as Brussels claimed even more power and used it “ever more poorly”.
The break-up of the 17-nation bloc could take shape in several forms, Mr Christensen said, including the weaker countries leaving, which he believes could be done for cheaper than the current and future bailouts.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...Saxo-bank.html

Damien 08-05-2013 15:59
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35569432)
Thats WHY i don't trust him. The EU will sell some sort of deal with him so he gets the yes vote. Tthen a year or so later he will sign us over to Brussels and Berlin and we will have lost everything that meant anything to this country.
Politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35569432)
We will be back in the red with the Euro around our necks and Brussels setting our taxes, wages, laws and anything else the think we should not have the right to control. GOD help us
We won't join the Euro. We didn't under the more Euro-friendly Labour even before the crisis so I don't see how Eurosceptic Conservatives would join up post-crisis.

Osem 08-05-2013 16:11
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35569445)
The heads are starting to appear above the parapet.

Sirius 08-05-2013 16:23
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35569447)
We won't join the Euro. We didn't under the more Euro-friendly Labour even before the crisis so I don't see how Eurosceptic Conservatives would join up post-crisis.

I just hope the EU collapses soon so we don't have to deal with it anymore. The longer it continues the more of this countries sovereignty is lost to Brussels.

---------- Post added at 15:23 ---------- Previous post was at 15:21 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35569449)
The heads are starting to appear above the parapet.
This bit will never happen. Germany giving up control of Europe

Quote:
Perhaps the less likely, but still possible, would be that Germany leaves the single currency. The bank boss argued that as the bills begin to pile up for the eurozone's largest economy, this option would seem an attractive solution to the country’s citizens.


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