Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'd rather think of us as the people who decided to take a stand against the bullying in place by major corporations that view us as stock and products, and against the government that lets that happen. We're the kids who said 'never again' one day, and put the bullies in hospital :P

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hamster = kent, from what you posted you sure sound like him :).

Can you not see by the size of the vote and the general consensus of the people that no one wants to be spied on no matter how small anyone claims it to be especially for something as advertising which we get bombarded with everywhere, and im 100% certain i dont want my children to inheret being spied on in such a way.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No. When you signed up you agreed we would use monitoring tools (as, IIRC, is clearly stated in our terms and conditions). I have published no personally identifiable info (unless you are BT Central's only user, in which case they are in trouble with or without Phorm).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I am 33 years old an you are obviously sucked into this campaign against Phorm based on WHAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS TOLD YOU TO BELIEVE

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

aww didums, poor BT and Kent "magic beans" Ertugrul don't like it when people stand in their way of implementing the nasty little spyware system, welcome to the school of hard knocks.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ok Guys

Lets cool it

Its obvious thes two morons were set loose by Phorm or BT to stir things up.

Ignore their posts

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Its not the end product of targeted advertising that has made the good people on here so mad. Its the means of getting the profiles, by intercepting and analysing our internet traffic without our consent.

We have no choice in whether we want to be profiled...even if we opt out our traffic will still be intercepted. Its time to call a halt to spying for profit, at least where nothing of ANY use is offered in return and where our data is stolen without choice.

If you really have read the entire thread and are still convinced that this is a good thing then either you are an:

1. employee of phorm or associates
2. investor who stands to lose money on this venture
3 moron

so which is it?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Actually, most of us have read the patent applications for the system, and know for ourselves what it's capable of, which is why we protest against it.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This is too funny. You are all my minions and do everything I tell you, at least that is what Mr antiHanff would have us believe. Maybe if I have such power over people I should run for Prime Minister, I doubt I could do a worse job than the current idiot sitting in the chair at #10.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

So you're avoiding that I see. Gave you a chance to ammend your comment about trusted privacy think tanks being branded by yourself as amateurs (despite many of them being professional in their field, Nocholas Bohm springs to mind) but it's evident you wanted to gloss over that.

Interestingly though, on your stance of the 'claims' that the process is illegal is reasonable, they are indeed only claims at this stage. Much like they are only claims from others saying that it isn't illegal. The reason of course it will only be claimed until a court makes a ruling on the matter. However, until or if that event occurs, we only have claims coming from either side.

But it is interesting to note, the claims of Phorm / Webwise being legal seem to originate from the people within its operation (Phorm, BT etc, investors etc.) and the claims of it being illegal come from IT professionals, privacy and security advocates, human rights groups amongst others. Now call me a cynnic, when someone who is interested in only their own personal gain has an opinion that is in conflict with an opinion form another person who has the interests of community in mind, I don't have to think very hard before whom I sway towards.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Welcome aboard, thanks for livening up my Wednesday night. Between the two of you, I can see we are in for some fun tonight.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Totally agree; I would ignore this moron/these morons completely.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Of course, my Lord and Master. Which reminds me, I finished hacking into Tesco's bank accounts and stealing all their profits for the last two years, which corrupt and evil corporation would you like me to target next?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I would suggest Sainsbury's, but I see you've already been there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7461526.stm :D

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Alex ignore them

they are trying to discredit you

THIS IS PHORM!!! Definately!!!

EDIT

CF ADMIN, please check their IP and check against Phorm....

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You are 33 years old? So? You still appear to be a little niaive.

As for being sucked into this campaign. You appear to have been sucked in by Phorm.

My statements are based upon reading the RIPA, and (although I am not a lawyer) having studied the DPA (both 1984 and 1998 acts) as part of my Computing Science degree.

They are also based upon fairly extensive experience in the computing industry.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Are you trying to say I AM A CRIMINAL because i don't agree with you?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Nah, someone beat me to that :(

I'm quite offended that you quote me in there, given that I've been part of this movement for a while now :P

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My statements are on behalf of being free to invest in legitimate businesses. You are like animal rites campainers who force shareholders not to invest in legitimate research companies.,

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

He didn't mention you. He was referring to the post he quoted..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Alex

Set your forum to accept manually new members if you can, nodpi could be next.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No. He's playing along with my joke of a couple of posts back where I claim to be a master hacker under the command of Alex, attacking innocent business.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Wrong quote :(

Too much Jacobs Creek :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My reply was to the person who's post I quoted.

Please read before ranting.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Except that the legitimate research companies actually give something back to the community. The only people that benefit from Phorm are Phorm.

---------- Post added at 23:33 ---------- Previous post was at 23:32 ----------

Thought so, hence the :P

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think a lot of people have just said "I'M STILL HERE".

Gawd knows what will happen if/when BT runs a trial. So much for the protest running out of steam, just give us something to get our teeth into please.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No one here is forcing anyone not to invest. We couldn't even if we wanted to.

Also, since when was Phorm a research company? At best they are an advertising company.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This is nothing more than a childish rant, it you support Phorm, then put forward your reasons for supporting it, also everything Hitler did in Germany was Legal.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It's Ok Alex - I'll admit it - it's me who is the real puppet master - it was all my idea all along - turning those who posted here into my flock...

Paul Delaney = Charlie Manson

Phorm = Sharon Tate

Mwaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!


Yeah right....

:rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think he meant they "re-search" everything you do online ;)

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Oooooh, clever!!! :D :D

:clap:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

1.) Phorm helps the internet community by making niche sites previous thought of as unattractive to advertisers attractive not because of their content but because of their visitors

2.) Phorm protects privacy because they do not store history data

3.) Phorm offer a real choise whereas other advertisers who use java and the like to allow cross domain transfer of information do it all behimnd the scenes without informing users or giving a choise. Phorm offer a central off switch

4.) Phorm will actuall cause less advertising and an increase in the advertising value of real estate

5.) Phorm will help small companies promote themselves in a cost effective manor

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

A cost effective manor? That'll be Hackney then ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

As you guessed I am not english by birth so theres no need to BULLY me for that

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This is such a silly notion, whatever you invest in, there is always risk, just because people can invest does not give them the right to make money without protest, regardless of the protest, you need to understand risk assessment .

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ahh that helps

You're not from St Petersburg by any chance are you? :shocked:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Wilting campaign = 55 posts in an hour, late at night?

Kenty Boy, WE ARE STILL HERE.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Any interception of your Internet connection, no matter how carefully the data is handled, increases the risk of your data being stolen and misused. And the increased complexity of the Phorm systems raises the threat from hackers and fraudsters.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes, and notice the support coming from nowhere :) The campaign is as strong as ever.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

And the evidence for this is where exactly? No I didn't think you would have an answer.

Yes they do, they store it in RAM and the page it to disk. They store profile data which is linked to your UID in the cookie and can be cross referenced by any OIX website to IP address. Oh and yes I almost forgot, in order to do all this Phorm BREAK THE LAW and intercept/modify your communications without consent.

Not sure what a "choise" is, I am guessing you were born into money because your spelling is so atrocious I can't see how you earned enough to invest in Phorm.

If you mean "choice" then again, there is no choice, a central "switch off" is illegal under UK and EU law, it needs to be a central "Switch On".

As evidenced where? And again with the interesting use of spelling.

Actually Phorm have stated their adverts will be more expensive because they will be more valid. Have you met Kent? No I didn't think so, he said exactly this on a number of occasions.

Any more?

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Because of the nature of Phorm, it's far more likely that the visitors will instead be directed to rival niche sites. That's not of benefit to the niche sites.


This is arguably false because the only way to build up a sufficiently detailed profile to make the adverts targeted rather than purely random is to store some form of history of the users


As mentioned earlier, the issue is less that there's advertising, and more the methods used to gather the information used to target the adverts. In addition, Phorm's 'central off switch' is a lie, as proven by earlier statements that any traffic will 'still be mirrored to the profiler' regardless of opt-in or opt-out state.


This is a flat-out lie straight from K*nt's little book of lies. The number of adverts will not decrease - why would it? The fact that the adverts are 'more relevant' will not reduce the number of adverts around, especially given that Phorm is not the only advertising company on the internet.


Spelling mistake jokes aside, it won't. Small companies can promote themselves better by focusing on their local areas first, or by using systems already in place like Ebay's shop system, or just rely on Google to bring them customers who are actually looking for their products.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I hate to bite, but ...

If more niche sites will have advertising on them, how is that causing less advertising. And if I remember by economics correctly, the more of a commodity exists, the less it is worth.

I will admit to the increase in the advertising value of the real estate - to Phorm. They will be selling space on the likes of timesonline and ft.com for a huge amount because they get lots of clicks. Whereas jacksnichesite.co.uk will be worth knack all to the major advertisers - I haven't seen them mention that.

It's certainly a good deal for Kent and his cronies, but for me, the niche site owner, no thanks. It just rips off my hard work and sells it to the highest bidder. As a boss of mine once said "BT are the biggest bunch of shysters I've ever had to deal with" - I think Phorm are running them a close second.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I prefer a central on switch. And even the Information Commissioner agrees with me.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sorry have to do a bit nit picking if thats the best you can come up with where is the BENEFIT to the user?.

Yes yes sure pay phorm or we overwite your ads for someone willing to pay more hell we might even just paste our adverts over your small buisness online webshop just for the hell of it and cancel out your advertising revenue at the same time.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sorry, but Phorm isn't a legitimate business. Legitimate businesses don't conduct covert and illegal trials on people. Nor does the business plan of a legitimate business involve breaching several UK laws regarding privacy and data protection.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Actually, Google already does this.
Debatable. They *say* they don't, but if the system didn't store any data about you, it would be unable to profile you.

Other advertisers (presuming this is another Phorm attack on Google) do a lot of their tracking in the browser (before you say I have been sucked in again, this is based on statements issued by Phorm's PR). This means that even if you don't trust google not to track you when they say they aren't, you can block them easily (just disable Javascript, or set up something to filter the code they use).

Phorm offers no such option. If they say they are not tracking us, they may or may not be. We have no real way of checking if they are, and no way of stopping them.

If you believe that increasing the value of advertising will reduce the amount of advertising you clearly are niaive. Higher value advertising will result in more, not less. Greed is part of Human Nature and if a site thinks they can get more money by having more advertising, they will.

No more so than Google.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The primary concern for all here is that although Phorm say you can turn it off, because we've had no information to the contrary, turning off the adverts is no guarantee that we will avoid being profiled by the DPI kit.

Have you anything new to add which would allay those fears?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

1.) Phorm helps the internet community by making niche sites previous thought of as unattractive to advertisers attractive not because of their content but because of their visitors
if they were previosly unattractive then they will continue to be unattractive.
2.) Phorm protects privacy because they do not store history data
How are they able to serve ads based on what you were viewing three days ago then?
3.) Phorm offer a real choise whereas other advertisers who use java and the like to allow cross domain transfer of information do it all behimnd the scenes without informing users or giving a choise. Phorm offer a central off switch
If the choice is to be intercepted and profiled... I'll give it a miss thanks. Other advertisers don't leech at the ISP
4.) Phorm will actuall cause less advertising and an increase in the advertising value of real estate
Unproven so we will have to wait and see... but then I won't actually see because I won't take part in it
5.) Phorm will help small companies promote themselves in a cost effective manor
Again unproven and speculation. Other advertising companies already offer cost effective advertising so we will have to wait and see

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The fact the TalkTalk issued statements to the effect that they were looking at ways of routing the data from anyone not opted in to Phorm, around the DPI kit suggests that by default, all data is routed through the DPI kit which may (or may not) disregard data from any users not opted in. Although we have no way of verifying that that actually happens.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Right so its beneficial for the advertiser, not the users.

And its my privacy and i can do without phorm, nothing on the internet is anonymous.

I have a choice today, its called blocking ads i do not want to see.

Well, considering i cannot remember the last time i saw an ad, does this mean i will see no ads, at all?

In what way. All i have heard is how this benefits the advertiser/shareholders and nothing for the users, please do not go on about phorms anti-phish.

So this is all about money and greed.

If Phorm is so wonderful, why don`t they start-up as an ISP.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'll admit that this is potentially a benefit. I don't think it's significant enough to justify the system though.
This relies on several things:
Phorm being trustworthy.
The system being secure.
The anonymisation process being effective.
I don't believe any of these will be the case.
Phorm collects data from visits to websites that do not consent to it. A real choice?
Less advertising? Less than none?! I use ad block plus so I don't see any adverts online.
It'll also drive site visitors to competitors sites.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Can anyone advise, I need a cosmetic surgeon. I seem to have bitten through my lip... ooo yuk blood all over the keyboard.

Someone mention copyright for me. I feel giddy. I'm going to pass ol gkyglyglllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Update; Its ok. Its ok. I'm coming round again.

Regards recent posts, to quote other infamous criminal minds of our time, "I'd have gotten away with it too... If it wasn't for you meddling kids "

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

[sniff] RIP Pete :(

Update; Response to update:

:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ha ha you got it in one 're-search' and perhaps also re-infect your PC if you don't protect your self with the anti-phorm venom.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

From one of the silent majority..to all of the vocal minority.

We've written to our ISP informing them of our disgust of Phorm.

We've informed them we will cancel ALL of our services if Phorm is employed.

To Alexander and all of the vocal minority... we are listening, we hear you... and Thank You.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Eey by gum, ain't it grand to blow the cobwebs away?

I reckon a lot of bots with red braces are running around the phorm bunker tonight updating the files on who is still active.

Now, given that we have heard nothing about a 24hr warning of a trial by BT yet, it means nothing was sent out by letter to arrive today.

Anything sent out to arrive tomorrow might not arrive until midday or later. Therefore no trials this week, unless they start them at a funny time or over the weekend.

It won't start at the weekend because nobody will be there to mend the network. They won't give notice by e-mail because the EU is in town and I don't think they would like that.

So much for trials this week.

The only thing that does worry me a bit at the moment is the Friday EU meeting. Nobody knows anything about it.

Are they meeting with Phorm? Arranged by the Home Office?

Keep those letters going. IMHO It's really important.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That's a truly brilliant question! That would after all be the ultimate opt-in. Get free Phorm ADSL with targeted advert connection, and as you say, if it's as wonderful as billed, we should all jump at it.

I wonder if the reason they have not done as much is because if they are the ISP they can't blame someone else like they can if they are partnered with BT/VM/TT.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Forget about the advertising. Its about the illegal interception of our data. (Phorm or 121Media or Spyware ) does not equal safe secure browsing.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I must say its nice to see PhormPR back, we have missed their copy/paste answers.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:tu: Many thanks - that's exactly what we need to hear now. :tu:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hmmm...

It's gone a bit quiet hasn't it?

Thing is, if I marched into the lions den to assert myself - I would actually be expecting to come face to face with some LIONS and would be equipped accordingly...

Oh well - good debate while it lasted - thanks all

:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Totally agree "TheBruce1".

<edit Rob - inappropriate text removed>

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Did somat happen while i was in the bath what i miss :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Can only assume Mummy (antihanff.Mom ?)sent them both to bed, it is rather late. ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Im an accountant (dont boo too loudly) most of my job entails protecting small businesses from the government. Im slightly technically literate and even i can see why phorm is bad. Legitmate business especially if its small needs only protection from the state. Large business however seems to always need protection from the consumer in the form of a regulator.

Got to wonder why HMRC has a large business group which meets regularly but no small business group. Im sure its only becasuse big business needs HMGOV's protection.

Your names not Gordon or Jacqui per chance ?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'd love it if it was Kent, this is his on-line vitriolic side. Though I expect it's just a Turkish investor who thought this would be the big one, over stretched on the investment hoping on massive returns. Sad really.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Could be...

Maybe he bought at A.
Partied at B.
Blames us for C.
Totally lost it at D,

Signed up here tonight to rant at us.

http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phormzn1.jpg

Damn, image won't show. Somebody wannna tell me why, please. :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It looks like I need to take that back. It seems NebuAd is not using a completely passive system as originally described. Previously, news articles had described a system where data was simply mirrored, processed and then stored against a hash value derived from the user’s IP address. A report by Robert Topolski for Free Press and Public Knowledge has found that NebuAd’s system behaves very much like Phorm’s obsolete PageSense.

Free Press/Public Knowledge Investigation Finds NebuAd Wiretaps Consumers and Hijacks Web Sites

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I just found a bunch of Kent videos on YouTube and I notice at the bottom of the comments there is an opportunity to respond by video on each one. I am going to have to have a shave, get my head shaved again and think about responding to them all :)

Some of you other folks should do the same.

Incidentally, I finally fixed my audio issues so I am thinking of doing a regular Phorm Podcast if anyone is interested?

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Or why doesn't BT develop the technology themselves?

They could do it if they had the onions. Not so long ago they used to be a global teleco, before some very bad management decisions turned them into a fairly big national telco. Even now Phorm is a pipsqueek compared to BT.

The doubt over ownership of data helps these seedy organisations baffle the regulators (or voters if you think there may be a 'security interest' channel that Kent is offering GCHQ).

Phorm's a con. Kent set it up to be sold to the likes of Google, so Kent can run on to his next 'project' with his big 'profit'.

Only Google's not playing ball. Either way, BT are the suckers.

VM won't be forgotten either.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Looks like I missed the troll-baiting :D

Who knows what phorm does? BT et al plan to hijack our data stream and give it to them. All we have is the word of a bent scumware company and its smarmy principal about what goes on in the box.

What phorm does should be irrelevant, my browsing belongs to me not my ISP. Only a complete mug would opt-in to webwise. So that'll be Hazel Blears, half the cabinet and a few thousand BT subscribers then...:monkey::monkey::monkey:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

you mean phorm will divert advertising revenue from sites that provide valuable content to sites that will charge less for advertising. This could reduce the quality of free content on the internet.

Phorm will leak UIDs; spammers and dodgy websites will likely collect them and link them to the user's email addresses. Third party tracking systems could even use them too.


Some choice, send our data through a DPI device, let them redirect it 3 times throw in some forged cookies and trust them not to analyse it - no thanks.


My understanding was phorm intend to charge the advertisers as much as possible, while running the adverts on the sites visited by their targets that will settle for the lowest payment, with Phorm and the ISP's pocketing the difference.

If you "profile" visitors to a site, then you'll no longer have to pay that site's advertising rate to target their visitors, as you'll be able to reach them elsewhere.

This sounds like a recipe fo taking away advertsing from sites that already can provide advertisers access to their target audience based on their content (allowing the site to charge a premium), and redistributing it to other sites that charge less.

If I ran a small company I wouldn't want to risk damaging its reputation by using a service like Phorm. I fail to see Phorm as being any better than spyware or adware.

Actually, you do make a good point there, as there's already a small company using Phorm to promote itself in a cost effective manner - you can see the advert on the front page of http://www.ispreview.co.uk/ :D



As you appear to be an investor in Phorm, have you considered the implications to phorm's system should blocking third party cookies as per RFC2965 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2965.txt become the default setting of browsers. I believe Safari already does block some third party cookies by default.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Oh my,legitimate you say,:erm: and about the animal rights analogy ,that's somewhat right,we are trying to protect others (and ourselves) from those sections of society that like to profit from the suffering of others.

Being part of the human race ,i'd expect any decent person to share the same stance !

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ok I have one night off and you all get to be phormed baited without me some friends you lot are. Right all thoses that fed the troll you get time out to think about the bait you bit on.
Me I just getting started :D


A little late joining but PLEASE don't count me in on your shareholders, I am a BT shareholder and incase you are not they are not even telling the shareholders about Phorm perhaps too ashamed to admit to shareholders they are wiretapping customers..




Erm you joined the forum it logs IP numbers for every post a legal requirement incase someone goes to court against a poster for slander. If you didn't want the Mods looking at your IP number take my advice don't join forums.


OK
1. The unattractive sites are nmormally unattractive due to being too expensive. Phorm will shut out the best deal on the internet to force us into buying from ones he shows adverts for only one problem for you here. I never buy from adverts that pop up I only buy after I have researched the item both in shops and online from sites I CHOOSE.

2. WE only have Kents word on that the actual program if you read the patent can do ao much more thjan hold history if can be changed to request everything from you name address to your bank details. The best part only those programming the servers, those accessing the results would know.

3. Choice and Phorm no not when they have another motive like was said to the press about editing content of the internet.. The internet is not a newspaper publication we do not need it edited.

4. I block all adverts which has been the best thing i have ever done. Some have even had trojens and viruses on their PC's from adverts liek phorm do...

5. This I find very hard to believe since if you are a small company and not signed upto phorm. A visitor using BT searches and visits your sm all site. Phorm harvest the key words matches upto adverts and diverts a potentual customer away from my site using my copyright material to help him decide which adverts to place on the persons PC...

Any more??

---------- Post added at 01:30 ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 ----------

Sorry for long post now I had some troll bait I need time out :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don’t think there’s been much of a ‘campaign of terror’ against Phorm shareholders here. I believe Phorm shareholders normally go to Interactive Investor to be insulted. It’s not our fault that Phorm are a one-trick pony. Anyone who invests on AIM needs to be aware that most start-ups have one product and one product only. If development of that product progresses smoothly, the share price rises, sometimes dramatically. However, it needs only one serious problem to arise to see that price nosedive.

The concerns of most of the posters on this thread have been in two areas. The first is that Webwise marks the start of a massive, yet stealthy, invasion of people’s on-line privacy. The second is that Webwise will be dumping a whole load of technical problems into the heart of the Internet.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Oh well I can't do a video for YouTube because I can't find an app in Linux which will capture both audio and video at the same time from my webcam and I don't own a camcorder.

I can do audio only podcasts though I will have a crack at one over the next couple of days.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

alex there is one problem with BT, they take mine via my phone bill not a separate DD, i suspect this will be the same for a lot of people, which makes it more difficult to stop them taking the money.

it would be a case of having to claim it back in the small claims court i suspect.

peter

---------- Post added at 08:00 ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 ----------


AH at last we see the old phorm PR Spin

if you have read all this forum as you claim you will have seen these point have all been discreditied on here and by academics with sound knowledge of the subject


as to helping the small website owner advertise, why should i bother as you do not publish the rates paid to the website (not even a gestimate) and the cost of processing the paymayents for me would probably come to more than the revenue, but i have notice since changing the front page of my website to include anti-phorm information and google picked it up my hit rate has doubled so thanks for that phorm

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Last night was a great release and brought quite a few previously quiet members to the debate, well worthwhile i'd say.

I couldn't help thinking last night, Florence will be kicking herself in the morning for missing this :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You could always get your billing mechanism changed back to paper billing (as opposed to Direct Swindle) and *then* you could withhold the necessary payment (i.e. pay only the part which represents your phone bill).

And, damn. One early night and I miss the fireworks. 33 years old and posting like a 13 year old? chuckle? I nearly soiled myself :D

If anyone pro-Phorm is still reading this thread (of course you are :) ) then you need to realise that this protest is about a lot more than targetted advertising. That's just the turd on the christmas cake. The offal filled sputem that is the cake is that *everything* you do online can be intercepted and manipulated with this technology.

Taking a stand against BT/Phorm at this present juncture is to take a stand for freedom. Nothing less. This is why we aren't going away, or becoming 'less vocal'. I've spoken to some old fogies about this stuff (who admittedly don't even use the internet) and even they could see that this was something truly insidious and should be stopped.

Troll on.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hmm was antihanf the guy who runs britishbulls thats based out of turkey.

gutted.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Phorm.com deported?

Its gone back to the USA...

See http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?...rm.com&probe=1

Pete.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

love it, they are back with there own kind look at http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted...38.255.255.255 and look at the site names "xanga", and various pron sites

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Check this out;

Sites with longest running systems at Performance Systems International Inc.

They are in good company.


:) Update; Peter beat me to it :)

---------- Post added at 10:24 ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 ----------

More info;

Also Webwise.com, OIX.com, OIX.net, Webwise.net...

Beware, Netcraft report bt.webwise.com is still resolving to Gyron (89.145.112.32).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Check this out - these are all recently placed vacancies 13th - 17th June

I presume that they've recently lost quite a few key members of staff!
(which kind of validates the info the "cancer man" gave you Alex)

It's hard to believe that they're creating new positions

Technical Specialist, Ad Operations
Media Inventory Analyst
Systems Administrator
Product Manager
Product Marketing Manager
Project Management Office (PMO) Administrator

Monster.co.uk



:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

would prefer to see one for ceo (phorm) and CEO (BT)

:angel:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Is it cheaper to host in the states, or is this the retreat of phorm.

or something more insidious like outside the reach of uk law ?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Could you run a windows app under WINE?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

In the ISP stakes, PSINet are the muppet equivalent of gonzo (at least they were here in the Uk before they split, and my dealings with the US variant didn't exactly inspire me either).

I'm almost tempted to go for the sysadmin job. I wonder if they would practice discrimination based on my personal opinions of their business model? :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

To replace staff who are unhappy with the entire concept? :erm:

I've seen the majority of these positions advertised for quite a while, and theres more on linked-in too.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Any mileage in this? www.ustream.tv (live video streaming)

You can record your stream and link to it. Don't know how linux-friendly it is. Or more challenging capture using vlc, eg http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=143732

or you could video-conference with someone with eg aMSN and have them record it....

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Oh holy moly...

PSINet caught red-handed with spam contract

More about PSInet

Interesting, new owners Cogent have this to say about Net Neutrality.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That's a bit old isn't it? :)

Still, so was the technology they used back in 2000 - They were still using netblazers as cpe's :dozey:

From Cogent's web site
"We do not prioritize packet transmissions on the basis of the content of the packet, the customer or network that is the source of the packet, or the customer or network that is the recipient of the packet"

That leaves a bit of room for prioritizing based on PROTOCOL though doesn't it? ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

A thought just struck me, can it really be a coincidence that 24hrs after Phorms link to the Home Office is exposed, and 24hrs before the EU come knocking... All Phorm's domains suddenly move from Gyron back to the USA?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

would need to be someone with a twisted mind to work for them how can anyone do such a thing knowing that the poeple are being conned..
On a better note, Alexander has as always been busy behind the scene,
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/articles/08phorm/index.shtml

---------- Post added at 11:31 ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 ----------

Yes ended going to bed late had to read all those pages then go back select my troll bait and reply :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

its all verry suss, but thats phorm phor you just plain ole suss.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Beware, webwise.bt.com/www.webwise.bt.com/bt.webwise.com still go to Gyron.

All the other Phorm domains see to have caught a transatlantic getaway flight. Nice time for a summer holiday in the USA too. Perhaps its a Phorm corporate excursion. Why wouldn't you take your servers with you?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

who on here has made FIO requests to the HO ?

as the register story says


so does one of our number have this outstanding as part of a FOI request , or is this delaying tatics until they say "national security or something"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hello, I found this site a few weeks ago, I had not previusly been interested in discussion forums, but I wanted to join up to thank you all for what you are doing, and to let you now there are still more lurkers out there who support you.
My first post on my first forum.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

WEll recently I have become more scepticle with our ICO so MPO is it a thick smoke screen, hiding behind words that sound like they are doing something when they are most likely not.