Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Exactly. And I've just wasted a long jounrney scrolling through pointless diatribe, I was tempted to spin that wheel for a moment myself. We should all learn from this - ALL of us. We should be focussed on what is actually going to make a difference. Spinning that wheel does nothing whatsoever except kill time.

Why are they not answering the FOI requests quickly, why the withholding or nil answers, why the refusal to investigate fully? If Sir Paul Kennedy is so keen on encouraging the legal use of RIPA 2000 (see today's Metro newspaper front page which was on display several times over in train carriages today) - to snoop on citizens to detect and convict criminals, where is the flip side of that approach to stop the illegal interception without warrant and not for anti-criminal efforts?

Should we put in an FOI request to ask who is being consulted to complete the response to the EU letter? They don't say who is involved yet do they?

Anyone got any idea if the Interception of Communications Commissioner is bound by the FOI Act? Should we ask him what he knows? Not sure if it is a valid approach in his role - anyone know?

Hank

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've just emailed BBC News.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ertugrul says that Opt-in v opt-out is a "complete red herring and not important" ergo that is probably the killer issue we should focus on. It is succinct, easy to understand, and for phorm, deadly :)

---------- Post added at 21:27 ---------- Previous post was at 21:25 ----------

It would be nice to think so, but Brown probably has other things on his mind right now .. like avoiding adding to the unemployment figures in October. :dunce:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Nice one.

We need to stay focused, chaps.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What I found heartening was the similarity in feel of the questions to the ones that Congress have been asking ISP's over there. At last, somone with a bit of political clout is pressurising the powers that be in the same way that the Congress has been doing with US ISP's. The questions are intelligent, relevant and based on proper research - all those EU letters and MEP letters were not wasted.

It felt really good reading that letter from Fabio Colasanti

When we stick to the task in hand its amazing what we can achieve.
Add the EU to the list of organisations being REphormed by having been INphormed.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Be careful with the Political Angle, don't forget this pre-dates Brown taking Office; a possible "Poison Chalice" that situation is best left to run it's own course!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ok All good luck in your fight I have decided to leave this thread hope you all succeed but I disagree with what has happened after posts today. One person decides to act as god on what we can discuss in the thread.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What? Who has decided what can be discussed?

Flo, please don't leave.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What I mean is that in the unlikely event that phorm is on Brown's radar at all it will be way down his priority list. The political angle is that the incompetence, bureaucracy, buck-passing, waste, spin and sleaze that has failed to deal with BT and phorm is typical of the decline in standards in public administration since 1997.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think it is best to leave party politics out of any public statements, but to be aware of party sensibilities, and make sure you approach the right person to do the right job. Be savvy and remember who you are dealing with, whether a party politician, a business or a regulator. What are THEY most interested in? What rocks THEIR boat? Do they need a bit of "persuasion"? In which case, how can you give them an incentive?
If they are an opponent - what are they most scared of?
If an ally - what would be most helpful to them?

Try and leave your own party politics at the door. I've found politicians of parties I don't care much for, can be surprisingly decent people and very helpful if you don't slag them off unthinkingly.

For example, pursuing the EU angles, may work better with LD politicians than Conservative ones - maybe the latter will respond more sympathetically to what the US Congress are up to.

Be aware of internal issues re: Labour leadership politics at the moment. To know what a Labour MP will do requires a fair bit of research! Are they lobby fodder or do they think for themselves, or are they born rebels who just like making trouble for a minister they don't like?

Think carefully about balance of power within Tory circles vis a vis David Davies etc.

Remember that the bigger the department the less the Minister/Sec of State will know about any particular issue. Their first priority is usually what is on the front page of the Sun and the Times (Mr Murdoch's papers). We aint there yet.

But if they can be taken to the window and shown clear simple embarrassing evidence of skullduggery, and the fact that it is already in the public realm or soon will be, and that THEY will be held responsible for dealing with it, then they will act, or at least want to LOOK as if they are doing something (what in Yes Minister was usually called a "full leak enquiry" whose aim was to keep everyone happy and NOT find out the source of the leak).

Often you AREN'T going to actually find the smoking gun, but that doesn't matter. The very fact of worrying about the smoking gun, and having to work hard to bury it, can result in a project being ditched, just to keep everyone happy and encourage the hunting dogs to go after something else. Suits me if the project they ditch is DPI.

Remember that the problems inherent in some government departments are way bigger than party politics or any one government, Home Office being a case in point, and DBERR being another. These departments have cultures, and long standing problems, vulnerabilities and weaknesses. Both have a very strong aversion to daylight. So pull the curtains wide and let the sun in.

I would recommend anyone to read the full set of Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister, and remember that Mrs Thatcher never missed an episode if she could help it - most politicians say it was far more accurate than anything else ever written about politics. I think I should get mine down and read them again and see if I can find an episode or two about Phorm and BT.

There are people who want to help us, if we respect the political realities they all work under.

I have a feeling the media side of things is working well. The damning news is out there and the right people are seeing it and now what it could mean.

Now we are into politics and that is a much more crafty business and it will require discipline and some subtlety and sophistication. Politics will be getting something DONE about this wretched technology. Politicians need to see what it is going to cost them. They thought DPI was all gain for government, and no loss. We need to convince them it isn't worth the security gains they thought it might bring them, in fact it could make things worse, proabably already has.

We need important people to be angry about what BT have done, and what certain culpable wrong headed officials have done in Home Office and DBERR to create this embarrassing mess.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi, I e-mailed most of the Daily Newspapers recently with the latest EU news ref. Phorm etc. and added the link to the Good ZDNet article covering the Barbican, the case file handed in to the police and Baroness Miller etc. I did not get an acknowledgement from any of them! Keep the good work up all of you.... and please stay Flo.

Dave.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've been in touch with a few journalists too.

(Don't want to publish names here, PhormPRCutPasteNinjaSockPuppet will obviously relish a 'must call' list helpfully provided by me).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

In that case I've written to Farmer's Monthly, Plastics and Rubber Weekly and Playboy.

That should keep them busy for a bit.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Don't go Flo

Only two types of people dictate what I post on this forum and they are the ones who have the shiny badge under their names which says Moderator or Administrator.

I am not afraid to debate with those who disagree with me because if I give them enough rope they tend to hang themselves.

Someone on this forum would do well not to take themselves so seriously...

The one attribute which probably gives us an advantage over the money grabbing individuals we are fighting is that:


We're just people

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08...ates/comments/

In the comments section of The Register Home Office/Phorm article of the 11th, David Pollard makes a very good point. (21:24 GMT).

If the Home Office didn't know about the trials, where many tens of thousands of UK citizens had their communications intercepted for extended periods, then they have fallen down very badly on their national security remit.

Even if BT hadn't told them, they should have known.