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-   -   Britain outside the EU (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33709659)

1andrew1 14-06-2021 23:15
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36083139)
Purely out if interest, what are your current hopes Andrew?

Given what is done is done, it is extremely unlikely In the next decade, even the next 30 years that a decision on returning would even be entertained let alone ever happen.

Is it your hope that the U.K. fails? Because that won’t happen, at the worst case there may be the odd issue over the odd thing, but the U.K. will continue to be just fine some things may be better and some may be worse.

If you spend the next 30+ years hoping for the worst, that’ll be a very sad existence.
I've always said that I don't see the UK rejoining anytime soon. Brexit is like a slow puncture, the country will underperform economically compared to how it could have done and ditto its global political influence will be less. There's certainly evidence for the former in terms of the highly paid City jobs that have left London. No one's pretending that we'll become poor - just not as rich as we could have been. That wealth translates into lower taxes or more investment in public services like hospitals and police.

What will happen is the country will gradually return to a closer relationship with the EU. The economics of trade make this inevitable. Eventually, it will tip over into full membership.

The tragedy of Brexit is the opportunity cost as it distracts from the key issues that the country faces - economic disparity between the regions of the UK, low productivity and facing up to the global challenge of global warming.

Fool yourself not, discussions with the EU will continue as we've seen with Northern Ireland and fishing. There won't be an end point when Brexit is "done".

Pierre 14-06-2021 23:27
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36083147)
I've always said that I don't see the UK rejoining anytime soon. Brexit is like a slow puncture, the country will underperform economically compared to how it could have done and ditto its global political influence will be less. There's certainly evidence for the former in terms of the highly paid City jobs that have left London. No one's pretending that we'll become poor - just not as rich as we could have been. That wealth translates into lower taxes or more investment in public services like hospitals and police.

What will happen is the country will gradually return to a closer relationship with the EU. The economics of trade make this inevitable. Eventually, it will tip over into full membership.

The tragedy of Brexit is the opportunity cost as it distracts from the key issues that the country faces - economic disparity between the regions of the UK, low productivity and facing up to the global challenge of global warming.

Fool yourself not, discussions with the EU will continue as we've seen with Northern Ireland and fishing. There won't be an end point when Brexit is "done".
Will you continue to, seemingly, take pleasure in gloating at supposed failures or lack of success in the UK’s journey? Opposingly, if in the next several years Brexit is a resounding success for the UK, and the EU projects falters, where does that leave you?

1andrew1 14-06-2021 23:54
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36083149)
Will you continue to, seemingly, take pleasure in gloating at supposed failures or lack of success in the UK’s journey? Opposingly, if in the next several years Brexit is a resounding success for the UK, and the EU projects falters, where does that leave you?
I'll continue to hold the government of the day to account. I take no pleasure in seeing the country's reputation tarnished. But I'm not going to censor myself by not posting any Brexit stories.

If Brexit is a great success and the EU falters then I will obviously be happy that it's been a great success. I've never been rabidly pro-EU in the same way that many on here have been rabidly anti-EU. It's just that on the balance of evidence, I felt the UK was better off in than out.

As you are someone who hails from Liverpool, I'm surprised you've not noticed how EU funding and the European City of Culture has helped turn that city around. Yes, the UK was a net contributor but we've seen how the recent Conservative Governments favours funding their own areas so it is unlikely this funding would have made its way to Liverpool - over 80% went to Conservative towns.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...he-towns-fund/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...-610m-24269389

papa smurf 15-06-2021 07:38
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36083151)
I'll continue to hold the government of the day to account. I take no pleasure in seeing the country's reputation tarnished. But I'm not going to censor myself by not posting any Brexit stories.

If Brexit is a great success and the EU falters then I will obviously be happy that it's been a great success. I've never been rabidly pro-EU in the same way that many on here have been rabidly anti-EU. It's just that on the balance of evidence, I felt the UK was better off in than out.

As you are someone who hails from Liverpool, I'm surprised you've not noticed how EU funding and the European City of Culture has helped turn that city around. Yes, the UK was a net contributor but we've seen how the recent Conservative Governments favours funding their own areas so it is unlikely this funding would have made its way to Liverpool - over 80% went to Conservative towns.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...he-towns-fund/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...-610m-24269389
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Maggy 15-06-2021 09:00
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57478412

Quote:
The new trade deal is expected to give UK and Australian food producers and other businesses easier access to each other's markets - an ambition perhaps alluded to by the meal served up to the pair on Monday evening - Welsh lamb and Scottish smoked salmon, washed down with Australian wine.

The UK government says membership of the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) could provide British farmers with huge opportunities.

However, there have been concerns in the farming community about the UK compromising on its food standards, as well as tensions in government between the Environment Secretary, George Eustice, and the Trade Secretary, Liz Truss.

UK farmers also have concerns there will be no meaningful safeguards in place to stop farmers being undercut by cheap imports.

Farmers in Australia are allowed to use some hormone growth promoters, pesticides, and feed additives that are banned in the UK.

According to the National Farmers Union (NFU), Australian farmers are able to produce beef at a lower cost of production, and could undercut farmers in the UK.
I'm dubious that Welsh and English lamb producers will be able to compete.

Sephiroth 15-06-2021 09:29
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I'm dubious that much Australian meat will be sent to the UK.

tweetiepooh 15-06-2021 09:33
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36083163)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57478412



I'm dubious that Welsh and English lamb producers will be able to compete.
That depends on customers. If we want to keep nice Welsh (and English) hill lamb we will buy it. NZ lamb fills a nice gap in the seasons so that works. But there is difference in taste even within the UK between low and high land lamb.
We can do the same with beef from Oz, pork from US and so on. If we don't buy it retailers won't sell it.
But will the customers do what helps local farmers or just "enjoy" cheaper bulk product brought in?

mrmistoffelees 15-06-2021 10:31
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36083166)
I'm dubious that much Australian meat will be sent to the UK.
Based on?

Pierre 15-06-2021 10:38
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36083166)
I'm dubious that much Australian meat will be sent to the UK.
I love a bit of Kangaroo.

Taf 15-06-2021 10:54
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
In 2019, the gap between UK beef production and domestic consumption was 152,000 tonnes. In order to fill this deficit 315,000 tonnes of beef were imported, as 163,000 tonnes were exported.
https://ahdb.org.uk/news/uk-beef-sel...acts-of-brexit

So we have to import as we export so much?

Quote:
Only 0.15% of Australian beef exports went to the UK in 2020, however 14% of the UK’s sheep meat imports came from Australia.
Quote:
(UK) accounts for 44% of Irish beef exports in value terms.

It is also very important for exports of Irish dairy products, taking 40% of our cheese exports in 2020.

The UK is still an important market outlet for Irish pigmeat, accounting for 30% of the total.

The UK accounts for 18% of Irish sheepmeat exports.

Most of Ireland’s poultry exports also go to the UK.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/farmin...-40299209.html

So Ireland (in the EU) is very dependent on the UK market. So that's why they are so against a closed border?

Sephiroth 15-06-2021 11:09
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36083178)
Based on?
A statement somewhere today that Australia has no spare beef to send to the UK and that 15% of regular lamb imports are from Australia.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...id-trade-deal/

1andrew1 15-06-2021 11:13
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36083181)
https://ahdb.org.uk/news/uk-beef-sel...acts-of-brexit

So we have to import as we export so much?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farmin...-40299209.html

So Ireland (in the EU) is very dependent on the UK market. So that's why they are so against a closed border?
I think the main reason that the UK and Republic of Ireland are against a border on the island of Ireland is political. Trade is important but it's not the primary reason.

heero_yuy 15-06-2021 11:23
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36083180)
I love a bit of Kangaroo.
Lidl used to do kangaroo steaks now and then and very good they were. Some people protested about it and they stopped.

Anything that makes lamb a bit cheaper has my vote. It's stupidly expensive.

Sephiroth 15-06-2021 11:24
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36083186)
I think the main reason that the UK and Republic of Ireland are against a border on the island of Ireland is political. Trade is important but it's not the primary reason.
An interesting point. Because politicians get worked up over this, your assertion has more than the ring of truth about it. However, sending stuff across the NI border is Ireland’s life blood = trade = politics.

Sephiroth 15-06-2021 18:47
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36083166)
I'm dubious that much Australian meat will be sent to the UK.
Having said the above, 80% of EU beef imports to the UK come from Ireland.

I would have thought that in the background, there are plans for Australian beef to compete for that market.


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