Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi All, With a LOT of help from my son! How do you like this?!


https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/35.png


Dave.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Many thanks for this and for showing yourself open to reasoned debate. I take my hat off.

Do you think you could add your voice to those contacting the EU Commission on this issue and suggest that your readers may like to do likewise?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Not true. LLU ISPs should not be affected as they route via their own networks from the exchange.

Non-LLU ISPs may be affected if BT Wholesale do install Phorm (BT Retail is a reseller for BT Wholesale in much the same way as other Non-LLU ISPs). According to El Reg, it is rumoured that it is BT Wholesale installing the Phorm equipment.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Are there any declared anti-phorm ISP's who rely on BT Wholesale? They must know if this going to happen.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I just had a look and Blackbeaks blog as pointed out previously! .. it's a nice little snapshot of the main points ...

and I must say how refreshing to see the author himself respond here too .. welcome aboard Blackbeak! :tu:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Dave I like this a lot you have done really well on this one going to steal a copy but will put in the correct details honest gov.....

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Deleted.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I can just see it now some MPs child accidently opts the MP in after reading webwise since they think it is the BBC childrens educational programs and some secret documents get harvested. Then again half the MPs dont understand the PC's and Internet so wouldnt know and all personal details or secret plans will be harvested by phorm what a money earner he could sell the secrets via his Russian scriptors to the highest bidder in Russia.. Not saying this will happen just milling it around.....

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No Kursk, the comment is not aimed at any individual, certainly not you. My apologies if I have given that impression.

I refer to the opposition, who frequently refer to 'a few geeks' or words to that effect.

I'm very keen to get across the idea that IT professionals oppose this. Boffins if the media want to use the term, but never geeks.

Geeks are creations of US TV and have a special meaning to those members of our society who think they went to school with Buffy The Vampire Slayer - unfortunately far too many people.

The term 'geek' is bad news for this campaign with regards to expanding public awareness. Mods - please add it to the language filter. :)

EDIT : I am guilty myself of using the term in the past.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Understood thank you Mark. I won't be using the term again ;).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That is scary to think a child could do that, But the MP shouldn't allow their child to use the Computer that is ment to be used for work. :shocked:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Maybe I am being over optimistic but common sense tells me that this disgrace will be stopped in the courts one day if all other attempts hit brick walls. The argument is too persuasive to ignore. Hopefully a lot more publicity will shame BT into submission before even that occurs.

Step back and put it into perspective some of what has gone on.

BT who are a household name that you expect to be able to trust, joins up with an outfit that has written rootkits and spyware. I could stop there. Unbelievable!

BT allow this organisation to have total access to all the HTTP data of a large portion its subscribers web data without their permission.
BT then allow this organisation to injects JavaScript into its customers browsing web data. Unbelievable!

BT then denies that this link up occurred.
BT then admits it occurred when questioned under pressure. Unbelievable!

I could go on mention all the other 'juicy' titbits but I am feeling too sick already.

I honestly could not have dreamt this behaviour would ever have occurred when I was working for BT 15 years ago. In those days 'customer was king' and BT as an organisation had a great deal of self respect!

I am so glad I am no longer working there. It must be very difficult for those who may know something, who have a conscience, but are too scared to say anything. If I was in a position of knowledge working there now, I would like to think my integrity would overcome any reluctance to whistle blow on the disgraceful behaviour I believe that has gone on of late. At least my conscience would be clear and that would be important to me.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think that this quote is appropriate from cablehell forum ;)

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I see now they took a left turn instead of a right turn.:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

>Thanks also to Hank and Privacy Matters for their suggested amendments. I've incorporated all of these in a revised (hopefully final) version, available at:
http://www.inphormationdesk.org/Phorm_Flyer.pdf

Thanks for this. I will distribute this as widely as I can.

Where/to whom do we donate money for the Google adwords fund?

---------- Post added at 01:36 ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 ----------

---------- Post added at 01:35 ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 ----------

It behooves us to prepare for when or if Phorm eventually rolls out by writing up a letter to send out to OIX advertisers.

It would be something along the lines of an explanation of why we think Phorm technology is wrong, illegal, and a potential breach of copyright, and we therefore intend to boycott their business.

Anyone could then send this pre-phormed (ha ha!) letter to businesses and sign their name.

Anybody want to help?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

To AlexanderHanff on https://nodpi.org

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I must say that I only found out about this "Deep Packet Intrusion" thing a short time ago, half an hour ago in fact, and I'm still reading up on it through the NoDPI.org site.

I, like member "Delta Whiskey" who posted (#40), use FF & Ad-Block Plus, though I don't use any list, I just block what I don't like to see.

I do have reservations about people's surfing habits being "Sold" though, why does money have to rule (ruin) everything these days?

My two cents, as they say.

TTFN, Sparkytus.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

this is a point i have made to BT on several occasions and just get back it is MY RESPONSIBILITY to ensure I educate the users on my network???

i am waiting for a reply from dear emma regarding this and other issues, hopefully in the next few days

if BT / Phorm can't know who is surfing HOW can they know WHO is accepting the contract and if they can LEGALLY accept the initial change in T's and C's, UNLESS THEY HAVE ACCESS TO BT's CUSTOMER DATABASE!!!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Very good, not seen that quote before :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sneak preview of the new design for NoDPI.Org

The colours are just place holders. Let me know what you think.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Guys just seen this blog:

http://www.sharescity.com/

"Phorm shares ready to bounce"

Anyone buy the Sunday Times yesterday? I can't find anything on the net to substantiate the above.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Tell me who to write too. Post it either here or on my blog and I'll gladly do so. I have already passed my 2 posts on the matter to my contacts at BT whom have yet to respond, though to be fair it's still early! :)

I have informed the Web Analytics Association in Finland about this and will inform my UK WAA contacts directly to see if they would be prepared to lend their support to the argument.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

New member Zwade mentioned it in his first post you can find it in post 8929

Ohh and :welcome: Zwade and all the other new contributors :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hmmmm..... I was looking at the Sunday Times Website, nothing there.

Anyhow thanks :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

re: When is the start of the new trial?

I'll give an odds-on price that the start date will be announced on the same day that the 80/20 PIA is released to the press.

No. I won't take any bets on this now. IMO it's a cert.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It's about halfway down the article, stating BT will be starting the trials this week, and that Kent may have another ISP joining up.:erm:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Viviane Reding

Member of the European Commission

BE-1049 Brussels

Belgium


---

Many thanks Blackbeak. :tu:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Also Meglena Kuneva... who (I believe) is visiting the UK on Friday to discuss Phorm with UKG. (Faxing her might be your bet option btw).

Meglena Kuneva
telephone number +32 229 93384
fax number +32 229 95372
BERL 8/218

EUROPEAN COMMISSION
Directorate General for 'Health and Consumers'
B-1049 BRUSSELS

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

We all know they shouldn't but many do let them either way if phorm is on the network how many Government ministers use BTinternet for their connection. We know most are not totally IT complient, understand the workings ofd the PC and internet. How long before Government documents start to show up for sale taken from the mirror images phorm do..

This program in the wrong hands (oops it already is in the wrong hands) is a danger to stae security a bigger danger than any terrorist trying to gain entry to the UK this is the unexploded bomb from within...


Wonder if the trials will go ahead I know Emma has stopped replying to me maybe it is time to try another letter.

Still not happy with the excuse on why the shareholders haven't been told about phorm past history or what this program can do ahh almost forget maybe the BT cheifs don't understand phorm or its true potential since they cut out BT Design in the trials...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Someone, somewhere, is desperate to shore up Phorm's share price.

I can't help but wonder if there is a PR feint going on here, to test and measure public resistance (they've done this a few times over the last few months).

Personally I still think, the signs are not there for this week. BT haven't published anything in their own name. The webwise kit is in the 'wrong' hands if anonymity is going to be assured by anyone. EC Commission is on their backs on Friday.

Be prepared by all means (I am, I left my Phorm infected ISP), but watch out for the PR strategy at work too.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've just installed firefox 3, and found that it refuses to allow me to install the dephormation plugin as it 'does not provide secure updates'

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It can be done, sadly the details you need are not available from the dephormation.org.uk site at present.

Dephormation is currently offline in protest against the ICO failure to prosecute BT. I'll bring it back up immediately if BT do announce a trial.

In the event a trial does take place (which I doubt) Dephormation is not going to give you any worthwhile protection.

Firstly, the opt out method may have changed. Secondly, even if you do opt out it seems you are profiled anyway (but not served ads). And thirdly if you do opt out and BT ignore your decision who will you complain to? The ICO?

The only sensible option you have is moving to a better Internet Service Provider who respects your basic requirement for privacy, security, and integrity of communication services.

Google cache with instructions for FF3 is here.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If the trials were to start now would be a good time for BT because come the AGM all they say is it is under way we have no data to hand and its going swimmingly.that leaves us talking 2006 & 2007 which they will pee on because of the inaction of all relevant Govt Departments .Please read the times on-line from yesterday if there is such a thing a Phorm PR watching they must have been surprised at the reaction to the intention of the start of the 2008 trial. There are still a few of us with Bt and being not so tech wise would like to know how to check and report back so in the event of the trial starting we can have a little data to hand , I have the kit but due to illness have the memory of a fruit fly.
keep up the fight we know we're right

PS the post on BT forum under News Worthy was me,naughty me I broke my lifetime ban. Ha Ha.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It looks like the dephormation plugin needs to be from an HTTPS Secured Site.
If the developer of the dephormation plugin considers it safe to use on Firefox 3, perhaps sourcing it from nodpi.org or another https website may be viable.

That is up to the developer it is his Copyright material.
I have just noticed the Firefox 3 (non beta) is due for Release Tomorrow.

http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs...for_developers

Securing updates
In order to provide a more secure add-on upgrade path for users, add-ons are now required to provide a secure method for obtaining updates before they can be installed. Add-ons hosted at AMO automatically provide this. Any add-ons installed that do not provide a secure update method when the user upgrades to Firefox 3 will be automatically disabled. Firefox will however continue to check for updates to the extension over the insecure path and attempt to install any update offered (installation will fail if the update also fails to provide a secure update method).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have to agree. They seem to have stopped engaging the public on the issue and I am assuming that there is a lot going on in the background to try and generate positive press (my own personal opinion NOT fact ;)).

I know this quote has been mentioned before but it's mentioned in their latest blog posting and is quite misleading. Quoting Baroness Miller...

she pointed the Lords to the recent Economist article on Phorm and says we are a company that is “on the cutting edge of what can protect the public� [in data protection terms].

I feel it's misleading because it implies that users will be better protected with their technology in place when in fact it does nothing of the sort, in fact you could argue that it has the opposite effect.

spin spin spin spin... I'm starting to get dizzy!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I just wonder if this is Firefox'x way to beat the phorm as all updates if not https would be mirrored by phorm this way phorm shouldnt see the script... Nice one firefox thinking ahead beat us on that one :D

What I really do hope is something goes badly wrong with Phorm equipment a datacentre fire, explosion power outage would be good. I also hope all Government MP's do understanf IT better than they have shown recently since they are playing with fire allowing this to continue. Lambs to slaughter comes to mind.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Would be nice to think that :D

But, it is to do with malicious software being downloaded to PCs via the existing Update Service. This is their method to stop it happening.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The Problem with the suggested type of workaround is that Firefox 3 would then be vulnerable to possible exploitation via all other unsecured plugins.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Dephormation will be back shortly :) it can quickly and easily log fake cookie handling and unexpected redirects. Drop me a PM with your email if you're keen to have it now.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You should chat to Mel from ISPreview he is also working on something to deal with fake cookies from phorm. http://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/show...3&postcount=14

http://lh5.ggpht.com/pathogenrush/SE.../firephorm.png

We do ned to gather information and work as one to get the best..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've a dilemma here. Because if you believe you have any worthwhile protection when using Dephormation, you've completely misunderstood what Phorm are doing.

In other words, it would risk giving non-tech users a false sense of security if they use it as a security/privacy protection measure. If you feel somewhat insecure while Phorm is on your connection, IMHO you're in the right frame of mind.

I'm not going for an ego trip, or mass appeal. In fact, I'm stunned and humbled by the numbers of people who've downloaded it. 30,000+ when I last checked. It was never my intention to provide a crutch to make Phorm somehow acceptable.

OTOH I can see there's a demand for Dephormation as an analysis tool too. Let me find out about the costs involved. I may need to start asking for small donations to keep it going.

---------- Post added at 12:00 ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 ----------

On other thought (and I'll shut up) that hasn't had a lot of consideration is this.

If Phorm ever became established, with its ridiculous cookie based opt out... You would find yourself in the potentially invidious position of buying your right to privacy back. You'd need a suite of add ons to ensure your ISP was aware of your preference to opt out. Add ons for IE, add ons for FF, add ons for MS Office, add ons for Open Office.

Of course, that would all assume the honest endeavor of the ISP.

I don't object to buying anti-virus, on the presumption that the crooks who create viruses go to jail when caught.

I do object to buying software to retain my rights, particularlly given the evidence that people who take those rights away illegally escape punishment.

That's yet another reason why it must never be allowed to happen.

Rant over. I'll shuddup now.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap::clap: :clap: :clap:

Rant is what is needed fromtime to time clears the air and helps you focus better after.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

1 hour and no posts. You all working

We need to find out about this rumoured BT trial starting this week, Didn't BT say they would give 24 hours notice on this ?


Anyone using BT been invited to this trial ?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I was messing around on msdewey and ended up here...
http://phormwatch.blogspot.com/2008/...m-meeting.html

The BT trials nothing yet my son is a customer on the total package he is unknown on here :) my secret weapon as his adress is also not known. He is on guard and will let me know the min he hears or has an invite to do the trial.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi Alex,

Just my tuppence worth.. I think the general layout is ok, but i'd personally go for making the banner more prominent (the original scale of it on nodpi.org looks good to me - not too large but with a good impact)

Good luck with it all

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I didn't mean to give you any extra problem, but I thought you needed to know that it would a possible Security problem with Firefox 3 and that it was due for release tomorrow.


If a Website can detected the presence of Webwise, then the WebServer could politely redirect (with a small script) the user back to the Webwise system asking them to turn Webwise OFF.

This would have an added benefit as far as Website Owners are concerned in that the Load on the Webwise System would be increased.
Dependant of course on how many WebServers are blocking/redirecting Webwise.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Up until your comment above, it has always been stated everywhere that it was BT Retail that was going with PHORM and not BT Wholesale, but if the "According to El Reg, it is rumoured that it is BT Wholesale installing the Phorm equipment" is to be believed and I have not seen it myself on the El Reg site (could you post a link to it please), then nearly everyone (NON LLU) will be effected assuming VM goes with it as well.

I have just emailed O2 as I am on their 'ACCESS' package (NON LLU) as they have previously assured me the following "Thanks for your email. We don't currently use the PHORM system, and have no plans whatsoever to do so. I hope this make you feel safer about joining O2 Broadband." I have asked if they can look into it and let me know if the rumour is correct and if not make it clear to El Reg readers that it is not.

Colin

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shriti_...aroness_Vadera

now why does that filled me with a feeling of "no confidence at all"

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have 5 websites willing to use a script that can do this.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Shriti Vadera

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ti-Vadera.html

Sounds like a positively charming lady :erm:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The actual redirection doesn't in itself require scripting, but the problem is accurately detecting Webwise at the Server, particularly as the Web Server at present doesn't know what to detect if the cookie option is not used.

<meta http-equiv="REFRESH" content="3;url=http://www.webwise....."></HEAD>
<BODY>
This Site has Detected Webwise, Please Switch Webwise Off... !

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sorry if this has already been posted: British Telecom Phorm PageSense External Validation report
There is a pdf for d/l there, might be of interest to someone here :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

SNAP .. I too got a reply from my MP .. Paul Clark .. with a letter very similar to yours attached! In fact the last paragraph is word-for-word!

Also attached was a copy of the ICO 3 page document from here ..
http://www.ico.gov.uk/Home/about_us/...e_and_oie.aspx

Nothing new then .. just a 'cut-n-paste' standard reply sadly .. :td:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

There are some utils I've developed that allow you to do just that.

I need to bring this stuff back online don't I? :) Shame the Information Commissioner hasn't resigned yet. That would make the decision so much easier.

---------- Post added at 16:35 ---------- Previous post was at 16:21 ----------

Fully committed unless those people are web site owners who do not opt in to interception, or run unencrypted but private web servers, or expect to assert copyright over their creative work.

Which I guess would cover around 99.99% of web servers.

So my comment? That's not good enough DfBERR. Not good enough at all.

You can't build a new internet by stealing content and reselling it. You can't offer unlimited broadband because there is no such thing.

Dealing honestly with content owners, investing judiciously in your product, and being fair to end users is your only option. And ISPs seemingly can't handle that simple truth.

Pete.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Could leave up the resignation main page but make a link to go beyond and download the files etc. That way killing two birds with one stone so to speak :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Also, fully committed unless those people were unwittingly used as guinea pigs in secret trails.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think that's why there is a need to be able to detect webwise, in case it is deployed under stealth.
But surely BT isn't so arrogant (and stupid) enough to risk it?

But then again, as long as the ICO is inphormed...

Ph**m shares closed up 7% today at 1070.00

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

seems to me they want to hassle kids who in turn make demands on parents

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/...cle4066426.ece
not happy about that either.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hmmm do I detect cogs falling into place?

Stephen Timms has been replaced as broadband minister by Baroness Shriti Vadera, formerly of the Department for International Development. As the competitiveness minister, one of Timms's briefs had been the UK's broadband infrastructure, currently in a state of flux as the core network is being upgraded by BT and others into a "next-generation network" (NGN). He had also been dealing with more general IT issues, like training and e-commerce. The move towards "next-generation access" (NGA) — or fibre to the home (FTTH) — will pose challenges for Vadera, as it is yet to be determined who will pay for the upgrade. (my emphasis).

So the govt needs a big favour from BT, and BT needs....

As usual the Reg. got the story http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02...adband_review/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

well they got silly high profits and even stupidly high bonuses yet they want who to pay for the up grade?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well since BT are going to pay Ian £50,000 a year more than thye paid Ben and another person who moves up will get a £196,000 pay rise taking his pay to match Ian's BT could have funded Fibre to the home on the TOP brass wages.
Almopts forgot Ben's leaving present £700,000 plus £300,000 for his contribution towards 2008/2009.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have finally received a letter back from Liberty, after writing to them a couple of months ago. They have taken the time to explore the legal issues and avenues for possible legal redress, though they do admit that they are somewhat hindered by a lack of technical expertise.

I have asked for permission to share the document with others. I have already scanned the letter and put it into pdf format. If I get the go-ahead, I'll certainly be willing to share it with anyone who is interested in having a look.

Not sure if publishing it online is the wisest decision. If Phorm wants to withhold information from us, there is no reason why we should share all our information with them.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Perhaps a good idea.."keep your powder dry" springs to mind!:cool:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I agree. However, if you are willing to send by PM?

BTW Guys. Is it not likely that Webwise will be activated on the Net for Peak hours sometime? It occured to me, that www.bt.webwise.com is Administrated in the USA, so it is possible.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi Alex,

Just my 2p worth, have you fort about the DDA compliance for your site?

Bobby test on your site



This page does not meet the requirements for Bobby Approved status. Below is a list of 1 Priority 1 accessibility errors found:

1. Provide alternative text for all images. (1 instance)
   Line 16

--- End of test ----

Plus you have a number of Errors on the page See Screen Shot Attachment. The Errors are:

01) Username - Box not visible
02) Password - Box not visible
03) Menu Item 1 | Menu Item 2 | Menu Item 3 - not visible

[Edit]

Woops Good luck with it all Alex :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

They would seem to have been in the BT trials....see #9054

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

First off it is just a layout mockup, there are no alt tags or title tags on any elements, there will be on the final version though.

There is no username or password input boxes yet, I was just laying up where they will go.

Also, what abomination of a browser are you using? What ever it is it is no-where near standards compliant. The site renders fine in Firefox2, Firefox 3, Opera, Safari, Epiphany and as far as I know IE7 (although I don't have IE to test it on). Are you using IE 6 or something?

I can't develop for IE because I don't own a single windows computers and therefore I don't have IE, but I do code to the w3c international standards so I would recommend you choose a browser which supports those standards.

I have to code to the standards because I have no way of checking in IE to add extra code to deal with IE quirks.

I am not trying to be flippant and I appreciate the feedback but I can only code to browsers I can physically use and the standards as set out by w3c.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 19:01 ---------- Previous post was at 18:57 ----------

Just had another look and judging by the fact that you don't have support for transparency in png files, I am presuming you are in IE 6? You really should upgrade to the latest version of IE to avoid security issues or better yet switch to Firefox or Opera which both comply to the relevant standards.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

As I understand it, a couple of online PC games have been doing the same thing for a while now - but only in online matches, playing the single-player version (AFAIK) means no ads

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

thats why I did not buy them pc games if they want to fill my gaming with adverts and time how long I view them which if was playing would`nt look any way, they should give the games away, same reason i don`t by branded t-shirts with big bloody logos, if tey want to use my chest as a bill board they can pay me.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Soooo, I have this little birdie who comes to visit every couple of weeks to give me information regarding Phorm. I can't divulge who it is because I honestly don't know, neither can I provide evidence to support anything I am about to say - it is just hearsay or rumour, although I have no reason to believe it not to be true so here goes.

Apparently, Kent's sister works at either the Times or the Financial Times (my source couldn't remember which one) - I suspect it is the Times as the Financial Times gave a damning review of Phorm in their Investors Chronicle magazine. My source believes this may be the reason for the Phorm publicity stunt in the Times this weekend.

Also, and again this is just information from an anonymous source, a senior member of Phorm's business development team quit a week or so ago as they had had enough with all the controversy. This supports information I received several weeks ago stating that several staff were cheesed off and the only reason they were staying was for the stock options.

As for the trials, they are apparently due to start next week but the date could be pushed back again. I have been told these are technical trials not commercial and a total of four advertising companies will be providing the ads.

Again, I have to stress this is from an unconfirmed source so I am not going to say they are facts, you will have to decide for yourself whether or not to believe them. I will add though that the same source has given me information in the past on Phorm which turned out to be true and undisclosed to the general public.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You've got your very own DeepThroat! Am jealous.

Only touching on the first rumour, it isn't really a million miles away from the realms of plausability. The paid for PR exercise didn't turn out the goods, would be no great decision to use an insider to further a campaign. Am feeling a quote from blazing saddles coming on...

"
Sherriff Bart: Can't you see this is the last act of a desperate man?
Howard Johnson: We don't care if it's the last act of Henry the 5th, we're leaving.
"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

that sort of advertising i have no problem with, it will be controlled and it has no access to personal information, and ultimately you can refuse to buy the game, seems to be a natural progression, so long as it is as the writeup says, the can of cola or bill board where you would see brands and advertising in the real world

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I like to think of them as my very own "Smoking Man" like the dude in the X-Files who is always helping Fox Mulder.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What a small world it is.

Perhaps we should label this emergent cabal the 'Phirm'.

(Cue, "I've come to fix the Phirm!" "Phirm? We do not have a Phirm").

Phrases like pump and dump spring to mind.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Googling for "Ertugrul" to find out about connections with the Times.

Nothing found yet but have found an interesting article from the NY Times in 1999. Apologies if this has already been posted amongst the 605 pages already.

Lifetimes of Memories Preserved on CD-ROM's by Kent

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

May I suggest that when we do find out if this is true we also turn a little heat on the admin departments of those participating companies. I for one have already decided that I will be leaving / unsubscribing any company I have dealings with who join the OIX and also participate in any trials or services. Before I go, where applicable, I will ask for my £10 worth of personal data for the sheer hell of it! Can somebody remind me how I do that, nearer the time?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

thats what the Art.29 Data Protection Working Party is for...

see
http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj...s/index_en.htm

there are some new news entrys, for instance
External Experts

• Call for expressions of interest with a view to setting up a group of experts to reflect on the Data Protection legal framework in the European Union ("The Data Protection expert group" hereafter the GEX DP ") https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/19.gif https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/20.gif (PDF File 31 KB)
  • Terms of Reference of experts to reflect on the Data Protection legal framework in the European Union https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/19.gif https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/20.gif (PDF File 10 KB)
  • Application form https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/19.gif https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/20.gif (PDF File 40 KB)

and perhaps The Working Party should also give interested parties the opportunity to submit their comments about End users and webmasters rights to protection against DPI Interception for profit by the ISPs.


http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj...m#consultwp147
Data protection issues related to intellectual property rights

The Working Party 29 has adopted a working document on data protection issues related to intellectual property rights (Working Document 104) adopted on January 18th, 2005.

The working document recalls the application of the main data protection principles contained in the data protection Directive (Directive 95/46/EC) in the following two scenarios: First, in the deployment of on-line services using the so-called digital management of rights systems (“DRMs�).

Second, in the processing of personal data to conduct investigations of users suspected of copyright infringement.

The Working Party wishes to give interested parties the opportunity to submit their comments to the Working Document 104 and to this end it has launched this public consultation until March 31st, 2005 [closed]. The comments received by then will be posted on the present website unless a specific request not to do so is mentioned by the respondent.
Contributions received

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

just seen posted over on iii 19:28

phormukPR ??

anyone care to respond?? i am sure a few will rise to the challenge :)

alex do you have contact with the gaurdian journalist? he may like to respond

peter

*********
1. "Absolutely on track" at Phorm's end - reflecting the public 'heat', and understandably, ISPs are taking additional time to make sure they don't screw up - re: security and legality issues.
2. BT expected to launch "probably" within a week... or a few days thereafter.
3. Feeling pretty good on the recent PR trends in favour of Phorm - a positive editorial in last week's Economist, and earlier in the FT, plus a supportive speech in the House of Lords, plus recent supportive conversations with the Information Commissioner. And, a reduction in frequency of anti-Phorm blogging activity.
4. Kent expects the vocal minority to continue to become less and less vocal, and even more so once full service is launched.
5. As we assumed/understood, BT will launch first, with a press release accompanying the first 'interstitial notice' - i.e. the screen that pops up telling you that the system is on, and giving the option to opt out. Full roll-out across its customer base will be in a matter of days or weeks, but not longer. Virgin Media and TalkTalk are in full pre-launch preparation mode.
6. Once BT has launched, other announcements for other countries are expected. Country CEOs being recruited.
7. Publishers still totally on board - including the Guardian (whose journalist has been particularly vocal).

Conclusion: At last, positive newsflow does seem to be in the pipeline. We reiterate our Buy recommedation.
*******

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re. 7 - I thought the Guardian had pulled out?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Once again the subscriber pays to give K*nt all his targeting data on a plate. Is there a word that describes a person who tries to find out every little thing about someone and uses that information for their own personal gain. Don't say, I can think of several!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The con man at his best conning the less advantaged who think this is a legitiamate company when he is only pimping them for info.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I posted about 100 copies of the Phorm Flyer to houses in my road today. Most are probably on VM but its a start!

As I always like to say when faced with a challenging problem.
Q. How do I eat an Elephant?
A. A bit at a time.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Can someone who is registered on iii find out when steadyasshegoes registered and if they have made any other posts on iii.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Bluecar, there are a couple of phorm-positive posts at the top of that thread. Are they new users? I can't see as i'm not a member.

There does seem to be new members appearing across the forums, delivering the "good news".

It could well be that the red-braces brigade are back in town.

EDIT : Beat me to it jelv. :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

member since 24/8/2000

he was the guy that posted the link to the charles stanley note that quoted outdated information but the CS note noted it was a risky stock as there was no comparable data to compare the projected profits against and they were unsure of phorms business model predictions


about 2/3 of his posts in the last year where on phorm

the other one "thebully" has also been registered since 2000 but only posted 2 comments on phorm, both quoting the same http://www.britishbulls.com/StockPag...Services&TYP=S which is just using basic averages to say buy or sell, not rumours etc


peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Dunno about when they first registered but they have been commenting on Phorm's section of iii.co.uk since it floated. I believe to be long term holder, strange though on the early comments, they seemed pleased to learn Phorm was what became of 121Media. Says a lot about a person one could say...

Shortened link (thinking of you, Popper ;))

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I heard from someone at BT who I've been working with on a recent work contract that the trials could run "seemlessly" into full deployment. That is, Phorm may not be switched off at the trial exchanges, just that it will then be switched on accross the country. This may not be news to some people but certainly surprised me.

BT originally stated on their beta forums that when Webwise was fully deployed, users would have the option to fully opt-out of Phorm (presumably at the account level), however this functionality would not be available for the trial. The trial itself will invite users from an "interstitial" request for permission, which means Phorm has to intercept a browse request in order to get permission, indicating that everyone will be opted-in at an account level.

BT/Phorm also published details of the consent gathering exercise which showed cookies being dropped to indicate opt-out.

If the rumour at the start of my post is correct, has BT given up plans to offer an account-level opt-out?

Or will they offer it, but just not by default, meaning there are three levels of Phorming:
1.) Phormed
2.) Opted-out by cookie
3.) Account-level opt-out

So technically there will actually be 4 states any user can be in:
A.) Phormed, phorm UUID cookie present
B.) Opted-out by cookie
C.) Unknown (no cookies present)
D.) Account-level opt-out

I have it on very good authority that on the absense of any cookies on your machine, and the absense of an account-level opt-out, users will ALWAYS be presented with Phorm's interstitial request for consent. That is, the default user state will be C.).

This could seriously break a whole range of application which use HTTP to do something other than browsing, yet use IE as a browser identifier

It will also mean all users on your connection who regularly clear their cookies will be nagged to rejoin Phorm each time, and I fail to see how this will satisfy the ICO demand for informed consent and opt-in. However I hear from a little birdy that BT/Phorm's interpretation of "opt-in" is that the check-box on the webwise intersitital screen will not be checked by default!!!

Rumour: unconfirmed but I feel that any hope I had that BT would roll this out as a true opt-in system have been dashed.

Again, this is unconfirmed rumour but I heard also that Google's upcoming suite of broadband diagnostics tools was done with the likes of Phorm and NebuAd in mind. I really really hope that this is true.

The above post is personal opinion only, reporting my experiences and conversations with colleagues. If BT/Phorm feel that any of the above is untrue, then alert me and I will correct it. Email privacy.watch {at} gmail {dot} com and mark the email subject FAO Oblonsky.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

iii only says

Show up to 25 trades from the last 8 hours

Latest trades

Time Price Bid Ask Volume Block Price B/S Type
10:36:46 1068p 1000p 1075p 5,000 £53,400 BUY O
10:36:32 1060p 1000p 1075p 5,000 £53,000 BUY O
10:04:31 1070p 1000p 1075p 200 £2,140 BUY O
09:59:20 1070p 1000p 1075p 400 £4,280 BUY O
09:53:36 1070p 1000p 1075p 1,000 £10,700 BUY O
09:49:39 1070p 1000p 1075p 500 £5,350 BUY O
09:38:36 1070p 1000p 1075p 1,000 £10,700 BUY O

not the first time there has been discrepencies between sites

but volumes etc are correct but don't match with data above

Today's summary Bid 1000p
Ask 1075p
High 1075p
Low 1040p
Open 1012.5p
Previous close 1000p
Settle price 1055p
Change +55p (+5.50%)
Volume 36,695

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

After this week it is likely I will be quiet for a week or two as I have to study for my taxi drivers exams and when I am not I will be working on the site/protest event so please don't think I have dropped everything but I have a family which means I have bills to pay and our mortgage already bounced this month so I have no choice than to take the job driving a cab until I finish my Masters.

Once my exam is out of the way I will be working 70 hours a week in the cab and the rest of my time will be finalising the protest event, so I am sure you can appreciate I might not be as available as I have been.

I hope everyone keeps going as they have and that as many of you as possible turn up to the protest.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

British Bulls reference on iii. Hosted in the USA. Registered in Turkey via Godaddy. So not very British seemingly.

Registrant:
Ali Ulvi Hicbikmaz
Baglarbasi, Icadiye Mah.
Temasa Sok. 9/7 Uskudar
Istanbul 81200
Turkey

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I hope it is opt out as there still breaking the law and will be nice to see heads roll :).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

And there was a Turkish frigate called the Ertugrul. It sank. Steadyasshegoes.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Good luck Alexander. Thank you for driving us this far and please come back when you can. I can't see someone of your passion and limitless enthusiasm leaving this one alone for too long :).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

best of luck alex, over the years i have had to do various to pay the bills, pack and sort fruit for that man from delmonte that says "yes", drive, mend pallets etc so know exactly what its like

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

As a demonstration of support, can anyone who has been with this since the start but been quiet recently respond to this thread with these simple words:

I'M STILL HERE

O.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I will still be here, I just won't be able to read every single thing that comes up. If people need to contact me about something specific they can still send me a PM or contact me via NoDPI but I might miss questions posted in this and other threads.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Indeed there was: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ertogrul

Personally I believe everything I read on Wikipedia, unless it's been edited by Phorm, obviously :D

Dave

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'm surprised Simon hasn't offered you a job :D .