Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This thread has now gone over the half a million hits! (500,373)

Onwards and upwards one million here we come.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I just posted this comment, posting it here in case he doesn't publish it:

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks for the Anti-Phorm Banners I have added to my sites these:

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img] https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/21.gif

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/22.gif

---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 19:17 ----------

Have you thought that this could be Kent or one of his minions, I smell a rat! :(

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

While I think its correct and proper to complain and make a lot of noise to our MP's, MEP's and the like and certainly 'educate' possible Phorm investors, I sometimes worry if we are fully hitting and educating what I think should be one of our main targets 'Joe public'.

Take for instance the people who follow this forum and stop off at El Reg and similar from time to time. I would guess by and large the readership and writers are internet savvy, technical, and in most, if not all, cases very PC literate. I don't know what number would be within this membership but I would predict that we, and I include myself in that group, would be within a small distinct demographic to use advertiser terminology.

This is where I feel we can fall down at times. I think at times we target too much our own demographic and not target enough the general population who are not as PC literate as ourselves.

If I was to allocate marks on what I have seen so far I would give.

Effort 100%
Legal issues, legal complaints and technical analysis involving anti Phorm propaganda 98%
Educating investors 80%
Joe public anti Phorm propaganda 5%

I am not suggesting we have done anything wrong in what has been achieved, far from it, but what I am suggesting is that we are not hitting home the issue to the larger population. The BT rally will certainly help if we can get enough publicity but I think we have to have more sound-bites that worry Joe public. This has been mentioned before.

I think only then will the daily newspapers and the more general media become 'Phorm Alerted'.

Two hypothetical differing statements (A and B), which one do you think would Joe Public react to the most?
(That is: Joe public who goes online)

A) Phorm performs deep packet inspection and intercepts all your internet data. This will be used to produce targeted adverts and is illegal under the DPA. BT have done illegal trials of this technology.
To find out more go to .....

B) Your internet connection will be intercepted by a company associated with nasty spyware with BT's permission. This company could have access to everything you watch and type online. Big brother could be watching you! Unless you prevent this now, you cannot stop it happening once it is in place.
To find out more go to .....

I am sure that most of you could come up with better examples than I but am I alone in my thoughts? Your comments please?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yep you have a good point, I think that Joe public would go for (B) .

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Word of mouth is the most powerful marketing device there is and just who is it that maintains and removes the spyware from the typical family PC? Perhaps a simple pdf datasheet for us techs to hand out to relatives, colleagues and clients?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I agree with you.

The problem I think is that many people I talk to just assume its illegal anyway, or find it hard to believe a firm like BT would do something so obscene.

But I'm sure some also don't understand how they can influence or exercise control over the internet.

The killer though is the mainstream press; we would need great coverage from them. Its not impossible, Chris Williams coverage has been brilliant. Charles Arthur has written online, but nothing I've seen in the paper pages. Daily Mail did some great work early on, but they've been silent of late.

It seems some newspaper groups have been sold a pipe dream by Phorm.

Perhaps noting sympathetic journalists when you read the paper, and writing to them would help get a wider audience? For example I think I recall reading an article by Janet Street-Porter in the Independent lamenting the intrusions on her privacy. Perhaps she could be interested?

One other option is writing or offering copy for them to use.

Pete.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Cannot disagree with that. Everyone who has had spyware, viruses and trojans removed by myself in the past are very paranoid after I have given the hard hitting speech afterwards about what could happen if you allow these nasties to come again.

Linking Phorm with 121Media's history in my opinion is our biggest weapon because a large percentage of this larger demographic group had experienced Trojans Popups and the like.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Unfortunately, even for point B, most of the public would say 'whatever'.

Looking at the Downing Street petitions (not available at the moment), what gets the votes?

Saving money (Fuel duty and costs).
Patriotism (Ghurkers and Red Arrows).

We can't hit joe public with money saving ideas but how about hitting the patriotism side?

e.g. It's rude, it's not British. We don't do things like that in this country.

Perhaps some posters:

A Guardsman : "Phorm - He wouldn't stand for it".

A flight of Spitfires : "They would soon shoot Phorm down"

A flotilla of warships : "Phorm is sunk"

I can't do art, but I know there are people here who can. :)

EDIT : I see Pete is already there!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Not sure if this has been posted but how can we trust this government to look after the publics best interest when they can't even keep hold of files about the terrorists security and more...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7455084.stm

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I was wondering what you people though about inviting a few SWP members along to the demo. I ask because of two reasons: a) I have a few contacts within the SWP, and b) Because I know the SWP are a fairly controversial group and not to everyone's liking.

On the plus side, they could conceivably help organise at least a dozen or two more people to show up at the demo. On the negative side, they may show up with SWP banners and try to sell papers and recruit members. :)

I'm open to all opinions on the matter.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If these people or similar turn up, I will go home.

Surely this has to be seen as a protest by concerned IT professionals?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

May I ask a question?

I am not too well up on networking, especially on the national scale, but it is my understanding that ALL internet traffic in the UK at some point uses BT owned backbone cables and by inference must also pass through BT owned switchgear or servers (even VM).

Is it not therefore conceivable that the Phorm/BT system could be made to intercept traffic from/to ALL and ANY ISP (not just BT/VM/Talk Talk)?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No, it does not. Cable uses Virgin's own network and switches. Non LLU (Local Loop Unbundled) ADSL ISPs use BT's network, so may be subject to Phorm. VM ADSL uses BT's network.

LLU ISPs (such as Be, Sky, bulldog etc) use their own switch gear and their own network, only using BT for the line from the exchange (they have their own switch gear in the exchange) to the customer.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

IMHO: Concerned IT specialists who hopefully get a message across that this is not specifically an IT professional related problem but a national outrage that affects nearly everybody who has a website in the world and consumers who join ISP's who have Phorm spyware equipment contained within its servers.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Phew !! Thanks Stuart for clearing that up for me.

I recently migrated from VM to Sky BB. :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Basa, be aware thay SKY BB and Orange have both shown an interest in phorm, basically i think if bt etc get it in and working they will probably follow suit

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I disagree that "Non LLU ADSL ISPs may be subject to PHORM" because they use BT Wholesale whereas the PHORM equipment will be in BT RETAIL hands, which is totally seperate as they are seperate companies. If the PHORM equipment was to be be installed in BT Wholesale, then that would be a major concern as every ISP apart from VM Cable would be affected.

Colin

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I agree 100% with what you say.

What we need like a hole in the head is to be classed as 'geeks' or the 'looney left'.

Boffins are good. People trust boffins. We need people to trust our message more than they do the guff from BT or Phorm.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

To be fair these things are in the news and fuel costs have immediate sympathy. But if Joe Public shouted loud enough about nearly anything, the newspapers would pick up on it because they know it would then help them sell more papers. People like to read about things that interest them.

Newspapers are ultimately only interested in making money and if they think a story has enough interest they will make it run! If the interest is perceived by the mainstream daily papers to be only from IT professionals they will leave it to the likes of IT Weekly to report.

---------- Post added at 23:40 ---------- Previous post was at 23:33 ----------

Totally agree. I would guess anybody who has had dealings with BT fault complaints will come on board fairly easy. They already know how bad their guff is. The problem is getting people to mistrust Phorm. Again 121Media would be a good starter for 10.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You're going to find some of this hard to believe...

To summarise a Freedom of Information Response from the Home Office;

• Home Office had one meeting with Phorm in August 2007 (after the 2007 trials in the summer perhaps?)
  
• Home Office did not consult with any external bodies (including UK Intellectual Property Office), did not consult with any independent IT or Communications industry expertise, did not consult with any external legal advice before preparing their "Is it legal?" advice document
  
• Home Office did not discuss with BT/Phorm the proposition that Phorm would enable compliance with proposed UK and European Data Retention laws
  
• Regarding an assertion that the Home Office might expect "to stand with Industry on any human rights challenge" to Phorm as a possible way forward to a "code of practice for voluntary data retention"*, the Home Office consider the quotes to which I referred were taken out of context from "part of a presentation encouraging the communications industry to retain data under the Anti Terrorism Crime and Security Act. Target Online Advertising is a commercial activity that the industry is undertaking for its own interests. The two issues are not and never have been linked."

* See slide 13 in this presentation; http://www.fipr.org/sfs6/watkin.ppt

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This is factually incorrect they are seperate divisions of the same company the barrier is artifical and created by ofcom.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hey Alex, You didn't find those BT illegal trial reports on a train to London did you?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just had: The Wedding Present - Brassneck. Interesting lyrics when applied to this whole sorry debacle.

Obviously copyright the weddoes :-

No, I sent you that letter
To ask you if the end was worth the means
Was there really no in between?
And I still don't feel better
I just wondered if it could be like before
And I think you just made me sure!
But then that's typically you
And I might have been a bit rude
But I wrote it in a bad mood
I'm not being funny with you
But it's hard to be engaging
When the things you love keep changing
Brassneck, Brassneck
I just decided I don't trust you anymore
I just decided I don't trust you anymore

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Excellent digging. I will digest a little more when the alcohol is out of my bloodstream, but first thoughts are yes, I do find it hard to believe!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes, similar to the split the Gas Regulator attempted with NGT Transco, which resulted in a firm that was paid half* the connection cost per Customer from NGT. In the case of NGT, the proposal failed. (*approx. @NGT, don't deny it - I worked for your Planning Dept in Edinburgh whilst this happened :D)

---------- Post added at 00:36 ---------- Previous post was at 00:31 ----------

I see where you got the confirmation of my original assessment of the Phorm System from, Pete

Its disgraceful, the HO willing to completely violate Human Rights, and this is the proof.

:mad:

Ive sent you an email Pete.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

HO willing to side with commercial industry (rather than UK citizens) to obstruct human rights claims, in the name of crime prevention and terrorism. Nice.

Someone remind me, why are we fighting a war on terrorism again? It was about protecting something or other. I forget what it was now. Couldn't have been important.

Anyway, I'm pleased the HO claim there is no link to Phorm.

This will become evident when they hand over dossiers and dossiers of evidence to the EC Commissioners, and prosecute British Telecom without mercy, or further delay for abusing EU Privacy Rights and EC Communications Directives.

Or will they side with the industry on this human rights challenge, and lob the evidence in the Thames?

Watch this space eh?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi all,

I've been lurking for a couple of months but I had to sign up because you have to see this...

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle4137799.ece

about half way down the page

<snip> BT – where the latest trial of the technology begins this week </snip>

zwade

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

More likely is that they'll leave it on a train ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ok, so it goes like this, I Log-on to Facebook, browse a little, and then decide to check the mail.... what do I find?

Hi Samuel,

I'm a writer for the Christian Science Monitor, doing a piece on Information Law and the questionably legality of British Telecom's trial of Phorm on its clients without their knowledge. I was wondering if you'd like to comment on your experience and what has made you join this group for me. I have opinions from industry insiders, but I think it is important for users air their takes on the issue as well.

I can cite you by name or anonymously, whichever you prefer. These are my questions:

1. What about the idea of targeted marketing, ie, an internet service provider taking your "non-personal" data including search history to deliver ads relevant to your interests, is off-putting to you?

2. Some industry professionals and web enthusiasts think that targeted marketing is an inevitable and essential part of Web 2.0, and that getting ads targeted to your interests is actually a good thing. Do you see that side of the argument?

Thanks so much for your time, and please get back to me if you're interested.

Best,
Nida

http://features.csmonitor.com/innova...e-with-others/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi zwade and :welcome: to the Forum.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

All dont forget that lots of newspapers have vested interest in phorm hence little to no coverage in the dailies about all the huff and puff that phorm do, i thought we lived in a democracy where we are free to pick and choose what we do and dont like and can say so freely without getting things forced upon us.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Could K*nt be a Christian after all?

---------- Post added at 10:48 ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 ----------

I agree but democracy is being eroded over time as the powers that be, spoon feed us more and more with what they think we want to eat. Often, just like a fussy child eater who doesn't like the taste, it gets forced in the mouth regardless. Because it's good for you (sic)!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I moderate all comments personally. The problem being SPAM with is ironic considering I am taking a position which kind of defends the use of technology to send behavioral targeted ads.

I have accepted all comments I saw to be non abusive (which I am glad to say was most of them) and argued my points back. I will continue to do so in the spirit of an open debate to any comments on my own site. I am particularly interested in Alexander Hanff's comment regards the legalities because I'm no lawyer and I'm assuming he is based on his comments.

I did however research the technology before making my post.

My interest is not "to get more work" for myself as someone commented - I have plenty to do already. It is to put my view across and get the opposing view back. It is important for the online industry as a whole that people like myself give our point of view because the way I see it all of our futures rely on it. A balance between what is fair and transparent needs to be struck. I already took the stance that BT were appalling in how they handled this and I stand by that. They have frightened a lot of folks and that is not a good thing for the industry as a whole.

I do however have doubts that what they're doing is illegal although certainly their ethics are in question.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

121 media a.k.a phorm have no ethics its been proven in the past and its going to bite them back, if all these pro researchers cant see it by phorms history we'll then you have to start thinking who can you trust anymore and you end up with the state of paranoid people and no one trusts anyone anymore.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Did you look at the patent information for the system? It includes things like the modification of web pages between server and end user, which is a major threat to net neutrality.

It's monitoring the contents of the traffic that goes through a communications network. It's like wiretapping a phone or opening somebody else's post. It would be illegal for Royal Mail to open your post so they can see what junk mail to send you, and it would be illegal for your phone provider to record all your conversations so they can send you junk mail, so why do you have doubts that it's illegal for your ISP to track your surfing patterns so that they can send you adverts?
The European Commissioner for Information Society and Media has already stated, in letters you'll find posted earlier in this thread, that it's breaching the european convention on human rights and the EU charter of human rights.

How much more do you need?

Oh yeah, the system as it is relies on a cookie placed on your computer that claims to have been placed by a different website - that's fraudulent misrepresentation, and is illegal under the fraud act. It's also illegal under the computer misuse act.
The system also relies on making an unauthorised copy of the page requested for analysis and financial gain. That's copyright theft, and I know several webmasters prepared to take legal action against this system if it ever rolls out.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I notice your a member of the DataShaping group, interested in data mining?
Could be some work for you in Phorm and the like.

Sorry I don't agree with what you say. My gut feelings are that your could be somebody who is touting for work in this area or that you could already in K*ts pocket. I also see many holes in your replied comments on your site.

I would suggest to all we keep our debate on this site and the others we feed off and not Google-boost this another site in the discussions. Lets not fall into any possible traps. He is obviously an expert in data analysis and certainly will know how to boost his site in the Phorm debate rankings by our visits. If Blackbeak wishes to debate here by all means he can do so.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This may be my Paranoia but it's better said than ignored & regretted later.

I've been seeing occasional format anomalies on some pages this week, apart from the spell where other posters were reporting blank pages before a Site loaded.

It may be that Phorm were looking for a way to hide the UID in so called "white space", which would probably cause such anomalies.

Since 121Media were very good at this, I would recommend some kind of MD5 checksum analysis, if BT actually announce a trial.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Frankly I haven't got the time to check every post in this thread to see if this has already been posted so here you are apologies if already posted -

Channel 4 news article on Phorm - Even their paid expert can't agree with them on the opt in / opt out debate.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't think it's paranoia. There's white space all over the place; blank expressions from all Government sources and increasing irritation in those who know we know :D.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Flamin' heck, a few days planting and a PC rebuild, and I come back to war and peace.....:shocked:

"I got an email this evening. Emma is "disappointed" that I have declined to remove the comments about them misleading ICO and has stated they will continue to monitor the situation. No more talk of legal action."

Can I just say HA-HA! BOTTLED!:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Regarding Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer and her comments on Phorm.

James Firth on the ukcrypto mailing list suggests that she tries telling this to user 3D7746485 using 121Media's technology back in 2006.

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pi...ne/084881.html

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I do have another suggestion, but I always try to avoid giving others more work if I'm unable to do it myself.

How about distributing 50 to 100 leaflets particularly around Supermarkets etc.

More Important to do this around London so that the Locals know more about the Approaching Demo.

Simply Headlined " Webwise what is it?", & underneath say Google these links when you have time & find out.

Putting a list of useful Search keywords below this.

It's always better if people find out for themselves at their own pace.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You made a comment in response to mine on your blog saying you are not a lawyer and don't understand the law. So I will help you, read my dissertation on ILLEGAL covert trials by BT in 2006/2007, you can find it here:

http://www.paladine.org.uk/phorm_paper.pdf

Maybe then you will understand the issue a little more clearly.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Agreed. Broadening awareness is crucial imo. Whilst the informed resistance to Phorm has been effective, the arguments have become complex and technical and this will marginalise the campaign if we're not careful. The wider audience is not unsophisticated but the majority seeking to find out what it's really all about could be met with a barrage of technical jargon they don't have the time to get to understand.

Point scoring against BT, cosy chats with 80/20, watching share prices and entering debate with random bloggers is not the best strategy. The monthly subscription from someone who knows nothing about Phorm is worth the same as that of someone who is seething about it.

We need to look beyond this forum and beyond the demo with a message that is as clear to the blue rinse brigade as it is to IT pros ie you will be pimped unless you say no.

When Government Ministers start hearing about the erosion of privacy during their time on the golf course or when taking tiffin with Mr & Mrs Jolly Hockey-Sticks, then they'll start taking notice :D .

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Images of quotes from the most notable voices connected to, or commenting on, the Phorm issue are available at the link below:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...e&id=574761987

More images will be added soon...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Your gut feeling is wrong.

Full disclaimer:

I have no association with Phorm, BT or any interest in getting work in this manner. I know people in BT working in web analytics and data mining, I don't know anyone at Phorm. I am interested in data mining and am part of a number of different organisations, online groups and am regarded by many as an expert in web analytics, marketing and data analysis.

I work for a company called Trainers' House Satama as a consultant and I am based in Helsinki Finland.

I don't need to tout for work because the demand for my skills is very high due to the lack of people in my line of work.

I didn't intend to attract a whole new set of visitors to my site by writing my post, it was simply picked up by someone, posted here and then I got a whole lot of comments on my site. I intended to open a debate with my peers and regular Blackbeak readers whom have so far not commented though it is a weekend and probably most of them have better things to do than read my blog.

I know what can and can't be extracted from a lot of different web analytics tools. I am writing this looking at a browser tool (the Google Toolbar) that allows Google to see every website I visit. They know everything about my web browsing habits. And I don't care. Because i know how difficult it would be to pinpoint me as an individual and figure out who I am. I also know that it would be a complete WASTE OF THEIR TIME to do so. What's the point of knowing one persons behavior?

So to continue this debate here, please tell me the value of Phorm or BT to know the browsing habits of individuals? What business reason would they have for that? Think about it. The value comes from the aggregation of the data not from being to tell what you or I are doing individually.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well first they link your ip to this fabled random number then they invade your PRIVACY by storing your information this can then be linked to you by the isp might not be with phorm but as phorm are in partnership with your isp they also have access to your details and or account number address e.t.c which will in the end (it might not be on launch) be circumnavigated by creep in software updates to sell YOUR personal browsing history to whoever wants to buy it as it is YOU they are selling not the clicks.

People know google collect clicks with toolbar any sort of toolbar actually which is why its your CHOICE if you give it or not, even though you dont opt into phorm your information will STILL be proflied before it gets to the net and can easilly be masked as needed usage or whatever bull crap term the isp want to market it as.

For someone with such a high knowledge of extracting info i guess you dont put much regard for yourself or your familys privacy ahh wait you dont live in this country so its not affecting you and would like to buy phorms data on people pehaps? :P

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You and I are talking about different things. The closest they (that is Phorm and BT) get to personal information is a UID cookie assigned to an IP address according to what I've read. It's not your personal information according to Dr Claytons document on the subject.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You missed the point, again. You're looking at the issue from the point of view of data analysis and it's worth -- you're not looking at how the data is acquired to begin with.

Whether the data of an individual's browsing behaviour is worth something to the companies involved is beside the point -- the point is that the data capture is done without the consent of all parties involved in the communication.

And, even your point about data aggregation is incorrect -- the whole point of Phorm is too look at what individuals are doing in order to serve targeted ads to the individual. That's not aggregation of the data as a whole -- that's targeting individuals based upon the individual's browsing behaviour. Why would they need an unique identifier if it wasn't to profile/target an individual?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

ok lets look at the bigger picture, and then I will give you my view, which will shock some people, and will tout contraversy.

Main points to consider:

- BT have all the PII for each individual user on their systems.
- Phorm will create a profile of each user's browing habits
- This will take place at BT Exchange 21CN
- BT intend to offer a DPI Product to LLU and non LLU ADSL Providers at their exchange 21CN
- The UK Government are creating the new Communications Act to ensure that the UK complies with European Directive 2006/24/EC
- The UK Government (HO) appear to have maybe backed the Phorm System
- The UK Governmental Departments are passing the buck from one to another

Now my view:

The Phorm System will be implemented at the 21CN Complex, and offered to other Providers, to Channel the Data from their End Users at a small cost. Subsequently giving BT the lead, in the UK and possibly Europe, as they will have the Technology* in place to 'Channel' various aspects of the Internet, thus placing the whole question of Net Neutrality stongly in doubt. (*The Technology required is the same as what has been stated that Phorm require for their operations)

Additionally, the UK Government will have a 'One Stop' Destination to compile the Data that is required for them to comply with European Directive 2006/24/EC; and it would not be difficult for the UK Government to indicate that Phorm should either record this Data on their behalf, or channel Data to Servers Specifically for the collection of the Data, which would be monitored and collected by a Government body. (Which in my view is why there is little friction from the Goverment as they would have a platform in place to utilise)

The papers produced after the 2006 Trials strongly indicate that there was an emphasis to hide the system from the End User and Web Masters, rendering the System completely Transparent. Additionally, the same papers indicate that the IP Addresses for the Trialists were made available to Phorm, so that Phorm could direct the correct webpage to the correct Browser. Strongly indictating that the public should not be aware of the system.

This has blown the claim by Phorm out of the water that they do not use PII**, and has created further doubt to whether the updated version of the System will also use PII, this will now need clear verification to either prove or disprove. (**The European Data Commission had indicated that the IP Address for any Internet User IS PII)

In my view, the entire Phorm Saga is a small part of a bigger puzzle, and this is a brief summary.

@ BT, Phorm, and UK Government: The statement above is NOT a statement of fact, however is a personal Interpretation of the facts presented in the past few months. This statement is CLEARLY NOT making any allegations, defamatory comments, Slanderous remarks - it is the view of one individual speaking to others, as he would in regards of such a debate in his Front Room with his friends and family. The 'Bulleted' Facts are 100% correct, as you cannot deny, the rest is all hypothetical in nature. Cmon sue me...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

New Flyer - simpler, only one page, higher impact. Comments anyone?

http://www.inphormationdesk.org/Phorm_Flyer_V0.pdf

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Nice work

Can I make a suggestion though? Maybe an area to provide links to:

badphorm
petition
nodpi

Again to make the campaign more cohesive. Only a suggestion :angel:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ok, one thing I would like to add. IP address is NOT PII in any legal act. It may one day become PII but it is not classed as such yet.

I have changed my position based on legal papers presented to me by Dr Clayton. My last comment on the subject was:

I defer to the legal analysis of Nicholas Bohm and retract (though I’ll leave the full original post here for the record) my previous comments. I now agree that a full investigation should be carried out.

If laws have been broken then I agree with you that BT should be prosecuted on your second point for all the reasons you mentioned.

My understanding without any evidence to the contrary (indeed the Home Office/ICO seemed satisfied) was that section 18 of Nicholas Bohms’ document was satisfied. I refer to this section:

“RIPA s3 is relevant to whether that interception can be lawful. RIPA s3(1) makes it lawful if the interception has the consent of both sender and recipient (or if the interceptor has reasonable grounds for believing
that it does).�

My understanding based on your document was that this was satisfied by getting consent from both the consumer and the advertising network.



I don't think anyone in my industry agrees with deception and therefore I will write another post to re-iterate my position.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

your doing quite well , you have also got Richard Clayton
posting to your blog ;)

we have thought about it and in great detail, and funny enough i was commenting on your blog about this very subject just now, but the browser crashed and i lost the text there before i hit send, ill recreate it and continue here...

(Hint) i cant work out how to bold and underline in your Blog SW anyway ;)


"I work for a company called Trainers' House Satama as a consultant and I am based in Helsinki Finland."

again ,fair enough, given your location, i will assume you lived there a while and dont necessarily know the Uk practices so well....

Blackbeak on His Blog said:
"Hitwise, ... and others have been collecting data from ISPs for years.

The manner in which they have used the information is different, they aren’t using it to specifically serve ads to people, they use it to show Internet demographical and behavioral patterns but their panel sizes are similar and similar data is aggregated.."

Ohh Yes "HitWise" and their massive collection of private data collected without consent of the Owners of that data For Commercial Gain.

"HitWise" and their Unlawful " derivative works" data,collected without consent, are now Owned By non Other than the Uk's No1 Credit Reference Agency (1 of the 3 main CRA's in the Uk) Experian.

the very same CRA that the Banks,Building sociaties and Broadband companies, (the so called 3B's) that keep the Uks data flowing into the corporate machine.

they use the CRAs to check on every single person's credit files, and they also feed the CRA's with Your personal data to get a better Discount on access to these Data records.

theres one single perfect example of why its in their interests to know the browsing habits of individuals ,they profit Directly from your unique and Automatically copyrighted data ,without paying you a single penny for the use of that data for a commercial enterprise, and they get to fill up their data bases to sell to other partys for commercial profit, commercial Piracy By any other name....

but it gets better from your Business Model perspective, but you do understand, it's to everyone elses detriment, and that includes YOU as a Private person.

you say you understand the old software tools of your trade, and from that are we to assume you also Now know first hand, the Power of these Deep Packet Inspection/Interception, Yes/No?

then With your private person "Hat On" ;), you and More so your readers, should Be informed that Experian are infact now the owners of that HitWise data collection, that HitWise IS useing the same type of DPI interception devices as Phorm and NebuAd, and Experian are working to also get this kit into all the ISPs internal country wide networks, to data mine all Your Online personal data and that of the website owners too perhaps, after all its now becomeing "Industry Practice" so that makes it all legal and right ,if they can do it, so can you type thinking perhaps.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3688387.ece
Experian to track net users



Expect your most interesting Datastreams and their "derivative works" in your Credit Reference File any day now if not sooner....

Ohh and while your here just to fill i that other forgotten goldmine....

you might also want to inform your readers, your family and friends that the Mobile DPI interception for Profit of Your Datastreams is already available to your friendly 3rd party data collectors, coming to your EU (Helsinki Finland ?)Mobile Phone any day now too....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/12/mobile_phom/
Qualcomm buys into Phorm-alike firm

Data gathering on the hoof

"The Irish company specialises in analysing the habits of mobile phone users in order to target advertising at them, and has customers including Orange UK..."

"
Orange assured us that the "browsing logs" only refers to on-portal usage (within Orange World), and "billing information" relates to purchases made from the operator.

However, Portal Relevance Manager Jim Small is quoted as saying that 2008 will be the year when the service is "rolled out fully into all download content areas and beyond into browsing content in third-party off portal services".
"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Correct which is why the wording is:

"The European Data Commission had indicated that the IP Address for any Internet User IS PII"

and not

"The European Data Commission have Legislated that the IP Address for any Internet User IS PII"

Anyways, bickering aside....

... Phorm MUST be stopped

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You think?

OK so when Phorm intercept your non blacklisted web mail which may have your real name appear in any text in an email or email header, that is not access to personal information?

When Phorm intercept your shopping carts which are not https encrypted (most are only encrypted for the Login not for further pages) that is not access to your personal information?

When Phorm intercept your forum posts on a political forum where you share your political views, that is not access to your personal information?

Just three off the bat examples, I could name hundreds of others if you like.

Interception at the network level IS NOT the best way to gather this data (nor is it legal). There are no safeguards in place whatsoever in real terms and all Phorm's spouting on about blacklists and whitelists is just a bunch of whitewash. Given the nature of changes on the net on a minute by minute basis whitelists and blacklists are not suitable solutions because they can never feasibly keep up or cover even a modest percentage of possible breaches of privacy.

It is ILLEGAL period. BT broke CRIMINAL LAW and COMMON LAW with their trials, Phorm were complicit and should be charged with conspiracy under the same laws.

The current model of Phorm's technology is also in violation of CRIMINAL and COMMON LAW for many of the same reasons but with Fraud thrown in for free.

How many times does that need saying to drill it into your head?

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Superb. Informative, cogent and concise. Well done.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Good. It would be a shame for someone who seems to have some intelligence not to learn from so many others that they were wrong.

Deception, Blackbeak, is what Phorm and Webwise is ALL about.

It has to be sold to consumers using deception because there is very little good to be gained by the consumer and plenty to lose. That's why Webwise has been and will continue to be "sold" as giving users security with its anti-phishing piece (the anti-phishing alreday freely available in IE7 etc and therefore just not needed)

Hank

---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 17:06 ----------

oh-oh... we're goin to be victims of their trial again?

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle4137799.ece

After a troubled beginning, Phorm’s time may finally have come. The firm tracks the websites that internet users visit and serves them relevant display advertising. So far Virgin Media, Talk Talk and BT – where the latest trial of the technology begins this week – have signed up, keen to get a slice of the online advertising pie.

Significant concerns about Phorm remain. A 20% slide in its thinly traded, volatile shares this year stems from the fact that it is a long way from delivering on its promises. Phorm’s sales are still negligible.

However, the talk is that boss Kent Ertugrul will shortly sign up an overseas internet service provider, too.

Whether his business model gains traction or not, the shares look ready to bounce back.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:tu::smokin::clap::hyper::woot:

i think you get the picture LOL,

thats fantastic, and the

Everyone is at risk.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well I guess in some respects we can only hope the trials are finally going to start (although I won't hold my breath) because that is when people who are issued with the "We want to spy on everything you do (well almost everything) can we have your permission please?" page will start to lookup Phorm/Webwise etc on Google and we all know what they are going to see.

Launching a trial now just before the AGM might be a big bonus for the campaign because it will increase public awareness immediately.

There are a couple of us with AdWord campaigns running at the moment so hopefully we will be capture a large percentage of Google traffic relating to the trial.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Excellent. I've sent you a PM. Hank.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Actually speaking of AdWords if anyone is a pro can they get in touch by PM it would be handy to have some help making sure we make the most out of our campaigns.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What business model is that? the covert one got blown, now it must be OPT IN, which will hurt it a lot.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Y'see, I'm still not sure of that. A cleverly designed webpage extolling the benefits of webwise might catch a lot of phish. How many teenagers for example will care enough to find out what it's all about? In the "give me something for free" culture, why would they turn down the extra freebee "security"? Given that their parents are forever telling them to be careful online, they may even see it as a sensible move :shocked:

This comes back to something I said earlier. We have to win hearts and minds outside the geek World or the further trials could be declared a success with only a minority objecting and/or not participating. BT and whoever could be selective about participants and screen out all known dissenters.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

not everyone can read Powerpoint without installing the massive MS or OO so i saved it out as a PDF and saved a few K in the process for those people.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

hank, i posted to that
"Whether his business model gains traction or not, the shares look ready to bounce back"
but they dont seem willing to authorise comments that point out the the fact his long term business model is no good, as its based on making Unlawful "derivative works" using commercial Piracy without paying the content owners their fees, or signing a contract as its base...

---------- Post added at 17:55 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------

Ohhh thats odd BUT I LIKE IT, ;) i made a second post and it didnt get mashed into the one just above it, cool....

did Paul change the settings? good ;) i prefer it this way.

apparently only a one off, shame...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Please feel free to use this article, my name and the full discussion on my site if you feel it will give strength to your arguments. FYI the legal document supplied by Dr Clayton was the clincher for me.

Bad Phorm

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks for making the effort to listen, do further research and post your findings with honesty.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Glad to hear it, mate, and good article :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

thats good Blackbeak, one more to the fight perhaps, all we ask here is that you use the facts to decide and use vigilance to look for and inform others you may know in your part of the world about this DPI for profit.

its not just Phorm or NebuAd OC, its about to become endemic if each and every person dont do their part to stop it and find the better way.

Sir Bernard has it right....

BTW ,being a new face to this , what did you think about Portlys flyer
http://www.inphormationdesk.org/Phorm_Flyer_V0.pdf

did it help inform you in any way being a non Uk resident?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Complaining to BT at the highest levels in numbers might help. I'd get the executive boards email addresses in that flyer. :)

It worked though, hit the right pain spots.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have been emailing Emma and Ian as a shareholder of BT sad to say they seem totally oblivious but i really wonder if they will allow phorm on their connections, since some BT secrets might hit the limelight.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks everyone for the very positive response to the flyer.

Thanks also to Hank and Privacy Matters for their suggested amendments. I've incorporated all of these in a revised (hopefully final) version, available at:
http://www.inphormationdesk.org/Phorm_Flyer.pdf

I've also renamed the Factsheet and you can now find it at:
http://www.inphormationdesk.org/Phorm_Factsheet.pdf

I'll link to them from the site later tonight at which time I'll take down the earlier versions (which have version numbers).

A thought - would it be useful for have addresses on the flyer as suggested by Blackbeak? I could add them on the back e.g. the BT contacts from http://www.inphormationdesk.org/ispcontacts.htm
and Writetothem etc

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

as already stated i welcome your contibution, However as both a contributor at your Blog (indeed it was i that pointed to it here) and this Most important thread subject.

i ask that you remove and replace your " acutely paranoid folks" text as it is offensive and deeply derogatory.

i ask you here so as not to pollute your Blog and i can delete this post within the time limits of this MB SW if you see fit to comply and we can forget it and move along ...

i realise you may have made your Blog comment in jest and the "Thank God for paranoia."gives it away.

However, there are those watching, that will not blink at using your copy or your standing in defamatory ways our Anti Phorm stance... not least the people loosing money in their investments due to poor judgment on their part.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

We got any comic artists? I am trying to come up with a new logo for NoDPI nice and modern, web 2.0ish with a cartoon character as a mascot, but my artistic talents (as evidenced on the site so far) are a long way removed from proficient.

I am going to reworking the entire layout of the site over the next week or so using a custom theme and custom css. The theme at the moment was only ever a temporary solution so I could get the site up quickly.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Wow guys, things are really moving on quickly, huh? :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Great article, and thank you for listening to the concerns of the people here.

One thing I would change, though, is to remove the "acutely paranoid" comment as it is rather offensive IMHO.

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Replacing the "acutely paranoid", with "acutely accurate" would make your blog as acutely accurate as these pages.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I cant but feel that after reading todays posts that the hard core of the group tend to overlook the less involved...

read by many but acknowledged by one other.Then late in the day repeated by Hank.

QUOTE=Hank;34575978]Good. It would be a shame for someone who seems to have some intelligence not to learn from so many others that they were wrong.

Deception, Blackbeak, is what Phorm and Webwise is ALL about.

It has to be sold to consumers using deception because there is very little good to be gained by the consumer and plenty to lose. That's why Webwise has been and will continue to be "sold" as giving users security with its anti-phishing piece (the anti-phishing alreday freely available in IE7 etc and therefore just not needed)

Hank

---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 17:06 ----------

oh-oh... we're goin to be victims of their trial again?

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle4137799.ece

After a troubled beginning, Phorm’s time may finally have come. The firm tracks the websites that internet users visit and serves them relevant display advertising. So far Virgin Media, Talk Talk and BT – where the latest trial of the technology begins this week – have signed up, keen to get a slice of the online advertising pie.

Significant concerns about Phorm remain. A 20% slide in its thinly traded, volatile shares this year stems from the fact that it is a long way from delivering on its promises. Phorm’s sales are still negligible.

However, the talk is that boss Kent Ertugrul will shortly sign up an overseas internet service provider, too.

Whether his business model gains traction or not, the shares look ready to bounce back.

[/QUOTE]

Info clearly missed by focusing on a Blog and as many have stated the good info is here ,and I can only apologise to zwade that his first and impotant post went unoticed lets keep it tight and read everything.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

@Tarquin L-Smythe

This hadn't been missed - this had been posted several times on various websites frequented by members of cf.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think most if not all of the points have been already answered by others on this forum and you have my full respect for subsequently reviewing your position.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

But there was a big discussion about a blog as opposed to BT launching their test yet again who is the enemy here the non believer or they that will have this technology implemented

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Latest version (since this) is ten out of ten. I feel so much better than I did a couple of days ago when I felt we were mainly targeting our own kind .

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi all

Ged here from SkyUser, just to say 'Keep up the good work on fighting Phorm'

What you have managed to do to help grow awareness is absolutely awesome.

Two things, Glenn and I have decided to do to help you fight your case:

1) Added the 468x60 banner to our rotation, to help more people become aware

2) We would like to donate £50 to the fund for purchasing Adwords

Alexander - You rock!

EDIT: Alex - Have donated this to your Paypal Account, its in my wife's name - (Joanne)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

my website has been updated with the link to the pdf's

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Think to only type of people who say yes are ever ill informed or so hip they they be the same type who gladly except a rfid chip to be inserted, cos someone told them it`s cool.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Putting some resources on the back wouldn't hurt at all. Page 1 stands on it's own as a flyer. If people have access to duplex printing they can print the reverse. If they do not have access, they can just print out the first page.

I shall take 100 to work tomorrow and leave in strategic places. This flyer is more effective than my previous attempts.

Provided we do so sensibly and legally, there are lots of things we can do with this.

Put one in your car rear windscreen. You might need to cut it horizontally to maintain vision.

How about putting one under car windscreen wipers in your local Tesco's? A damn site more useful than the 'get rich quick' stuff that normally appears.

Start putting them through letter-boxes.

I think we probably have missed a trick during the lull. We have been trying to get this into the main-stream media rather than taking it to the general public ourselves. We need to remember that the internet is not the only means of communication open to us.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ok hows about your local chippy counter, the ones round here allow you leave fliers, also local shops sometimes do as well.
on the fun side anyone got a hot air balloon to drop a few from above.:erm:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap: thanks! :)

---------- Post added at 20:47 ---------- Previous post was at 20:41 ----------

Reminder, these letters are essential and even urgent (given the EC visit to London on Friday). If you've got time this evening to jot a letter please do... Credit to Hank for the list.

- Letter to The The Interception of Communications Commissioner
(follow up to the response from a local Police directing that IoCC is responsible for investigating breaches of RIPA 2000)

- Copy of above to Lord Northesk (who asked The Home Office who is responsible)

- Copy of the above to Lord Spithead (from Home Office who said it is the Police or other relevant law enforcement agency's responsibility to investigate)

- Letter to Vivian Reding, member of the EU commission who might be interested in what our government is or is not doing to ensure the laws of the land are applied

- Letter (fax? given the short timescales) to Meglena Kuneva EU Commisioner, who is attending the EC meeting in London on Friday and who's interests include consumer protection, proper law enforcement, and tackling people who wish to cheat and defraud consumers

- Letter to Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer (Lib Dem, House of Lords) expressing grave concern that she has apparently met with a 'Wolf in sheeps clothing' and simply referencing the history of Phorm as 121Media with a non-technical short explanation of what rootkits are.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

ditto.
Although we've been this route before (a couple of months ago when things were moving very fast), it was a bit half-hearted and other events took precedence. Armed with this new 1 page non technical flyer (thx PG) its time to spread the word to the masses.

Lets Rock'n'Roll boys and girls.
:dmonk:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hmm interesting article re K*nts Nemesis - http://www.hothardware.com/News/Goog...ling_Detector/ . Quote "We're trying to develop tools, software tools...that allow people to detect what's happening with their broadband connections, so they can let [ISPs] know that they're not happy with what they're getting -- that they think certain services are being tampered with," Google senior policy director Richard Whitt said this morning during a panel discussion at Santa Clara University, an hour south of San Francisco.

Well if Webwise/phorm is not 'tampering' I don't know what is.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The coming week is so important. To add to Pete's comments, what about the reports of trials starting in the Times?

The Times is very chummy with phorm so is likely to have confirmed things with them. A false rumour might increase the phorm share price for a day or so, but when it does not materialise, the price will drop further, yet again.

I suspect a trial will start next week.

The more people we can make aware of the issue next week, the better.

Imagine what will happen if there are 'technical' problems with the trial when the EU is in town?

Now is the time to dig deep into the pockets for stamps, printing, adwords etc. and to start walking around putting leaflets through letter-boxes and under windscreen-wipers.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Info clearly missed by focusing on a Blog and as many have stated the good info is here ,and I can only apologise to zwade that his first and impotant post went unoticed lets keep it tight and read everything.[/quote]

not "Info Clearly missed" mearly to many other things to be doing, and actually doing them in relation to this ISP/Phorm/DPi matter, not just the blog,after all that was old news to me #8895

i have read those posts and infact i did manage to make time to comment on the timeonline here #8968

also spit reading several of the newer posts pages and did intend revisiting when time allowed, 61 web pages open right now (advanced Browser)mostly Phorm related right now....

i did see zwade's post at the time he posted, but i must apologise to him in not seeing a new members first post and given my usual :welcome: zwade, i must try harder ;).

so
:welcome: zwade

and even :welcome: Blackbeak (even if you chose not to reply to my request, or modify your text...)

but tdadyslexia was there to do welcome zwade also #8932

and OC we cant forget davethejag for his Excellent 13-06-2008, 11:51 #8797 "
Hi, I had an idea about a World War 2 poster but I could not paste it (not very good with this sort of stuff!) I was looking at "A Walls Have Ears" type thing and came accross this. (below) Perhaps it could be modified by some clever person (copyright permitted) for our cause. Here is the link -

http://www.propagandaposters.us/poster11.html

Dave

" Idea....

that is indeed turning out to be one of our best PR plans as time passes.....

theres a mass of WW2 propaganda that puts todays adverts creators to shame, that our artists can indeed use, and take inspiration from for any moden day (so called) soundbite...

and finally OC theres that payed bloke :angel: on the tv that cant agree with what Phorm say, that being 80/20Thinking Simon and his interesting posts below

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/se...archid=2352560

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sorry no offense meant. I was joking as popper suggests. It's removed.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

printing double sided is easy if you have two A4 PDFs , print off say 100 front pages and then just put them through again after turning them over and refeeding them to print the back page....theres also many old free banner printing apps around that can take an A4 image or text and arrange the print que to enlarge it to whatever size you like, then just tape them to gether and put on the back of your window blinds in the office for instance ;) and pull them down again when you go home....the ideas are plentiful but the content is rather thin on the ground right now, for instance i was hopeing for some webcam/phonecam 30 second video protesting to start showing up on http://www.youtube.com/group/AntiPhorm by now.....once the content is made available , people can start using it for all sorts of interesting sounbites clips etc...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I would go further than that. I think it would be a good theme for the demo.

I've pointed out in a previous post that the issues that get the votes on the Downing St. petition site seem to be patriotism and saving money (on motoring). Anyone want to dispute that the car tax petition won't soon overtake our one?

We already have a wealth of WW2 derived artwork.

The point of having to defend your rights stands out. You have to fight for your freedoms and fight against those who will take them away.

Nobody could accuse us of being 'geeks', in fact anyone being critical of the thrust of the demo would have to be very careful of what they said. Full stop.

Sometimes 'The Few' make a difference although I would never compare us with what they did.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi NewsreadeR and :welcome: to the Forum old friend, I am glad to see you over here, I will pop over to SkyUserRadio in the next week or 2, see you soon.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Many people sacrificed their lives in the last century to protect and earn the few rights we have, including freedom to communicate privately. I feel a strong responsibility to protect those rights.

One for our American friends;

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