Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Plus the child killer Putin.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Well you didn’t answer my first question………….And now you’re trying to be cute.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

I am debating the subject in hand. If you condemn the killing of women & children in Gaza, say so. If you don't, say so.

I would like to stick to the subject matter in hand if you don't mind. My fear is that due to the lack of a moderating actor in this region, this could escalate way out of control. The US have sent a carrier battle group to the Middle East with the declared intent to aid Israel if required. Scary stuff ...

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

I think it’s fair to say that humans will lie, steal and kill in pursuit of their interests. Their interests could be food, property or a belief system around which their society is organised. That could be a religious belief system, but Joseph Stalin is likely to have killed more than any other and he was following an avowedly atheistic philosophy. The common denominator isn’t religion, it’s humans.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

I condemn the killing of anyone.

I was commenting on the cause and effect. I am not interested in the history of the region in this in particular instance, because that’s a rabbit hole used to deflect.

The fact is on Saturday, terrorists invaded Israel and slaughtered hundreds of innocents, executed children in front of their families, raped young women and paraded their corpses, beheaded babies and toddlers, gunned down old ladies and burned children alive, if reports on the last claim are accurate.

There are verifiable pictures of ordinary Palestinians celebrating this.

So, if you’re asking me if I condemn Israel indiscriminately bombing Gaza, I do.

Are they indiscriminately bombing Gaza, I don’t know they may be targeting known Hamas buildings. Hamas hide amongst the innocents such is their cowardice.

Would Israel be doing this if Hamas hadn’t attacked?……no

In this instance who is to blame?……Hamas

Is Israel justified in retaliating? …….yes

That’s quite simple. Is a baby dying via an air strike or being beheaded any different, it’s still a dead baby right? Yes, it is ****ing different and if you can’t work out the difference you’re not right in the head.

No, absolutely predictable. Who would be your “moderating actor”?

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Only moderating actor I can think of is Egypt.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Pretty sure that was sarcasm.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Qatar are already acting as an intermediary.

The US carrier group won’t get involved their function is to deter others. Israel have more than enough capability by themselves to pursue their own military ends. The US have no reason to participate and be tarred with war crimes.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Yes, I’m sure a previous state that tried to destroy Israel will be very moderate.

---------- Post added at 21:36 ---------- Previous post was at 21:36 ----------

Agreed, they are a backstop.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Times have changed since then.
https://english.elpais.com/internati...n-efforts.html

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Whoever moderates, whenever it reaches that stage, has two ‘straightforward’ goals. The return of hostages and a ceasefire. Their own views will be of little consequence.

Whoever it is will be a probable front for the US anyway, with no American politicians wanting to risk looking soft to voters who want to see unqualified backing of Israel. We are only 12 months out from an election.

Before someone inevitably asks why handing over those responsible for planning or carrying out the attacks by Hamas isn’t in my criteria I doubt there will be many left and Israel can handle that themselves later.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

I had thought we could have a rational debate but was wrong. If you are making this distinction, let's leave this here.

---------- Post added at 23:10 ---------- Previous post was at 23:04 ----------

You are dancing around the problem here. The underpinning of the immoral behaviour on both sides is their respective religions. This really is just fact. No ifs or buts. You can try and build a straw man that these two protagonists would behave the same without their respective faiths but this would be just denial.

---------- Post added at 23:11 ---------- Previous post was at 23:10 ----------

Interesting:

https://twitter.com/lisang/status/1711824708746838214

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

I’m having a rational debate. You can point out what is irrational. If you are unwilling or unable, to debate, that’s up to you.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Also:

https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/statu...99837472293172



---------- Post added at 23:16 ---------- Previous post was at 23:12 ----------

I'm sorry, I don't see this as rational:

I guess I am just old school. YMMV ...

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

That’s probably one of the most rational.

As the terrorist sympathisers on this site always try to equate Israel’s actions and Hamas’s actions as canceling each other out. There’s numerous examples on this thread if you have a very brief look.

The argument that one side killed babies, but so did the other, so they’re both morally the same.

An Israeli soldier firing a strike on Gaza and collaterally killing a child is awful and terrible, but it takes a whole different direction if that person personally beheads that child with his own hands.

I don’t think you can equivocate the two, but happy to hear from anyone that can.