Cable Forum - U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

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Jaymoss

14-09-2022 10:50

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36134124)

In the UK "fetal abnormalities", ended up including the easily treatable condition of cleft palate. If the baby is already dead, how can it count as abortion? The pregnancy has already ended.

same with ectopic as it will never result is a child

BenMcr

14-09-2022 11:06

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36134124)

If the baby is already dead, how can it count as abortion? The pregnancy has already ended.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36134125)

same with ectopic as it will never result is a child

That doesn't mean that treatment wouldn't include an abortion, unless you're trying to split the definition

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abortion

Quote:

the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus:

Jaymoss

14-09-2022 11:11

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36134127)

That doesn't mean that treatment wouldn't include an abortion, unless you're trying to split the definition

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abortion

Yet the British Pregnancy Advisory Service states "Abortion is when a pregnancy is ended so that it doesn't result in the birth of a child." An ectopic pregnancy never will result in a baby as a lot of medical emergencies would not also

It is all semantics anyway I just worded my post badly

nomadking

14-09-2022 11:17

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36134127)

That doesn't mean that treatment wouldn't include an abortion, unless you're trying to split the definition

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abortion

So that would include where babies are born alive, but a doctor cuts their spinal cord with scissors, and the body placed in a freezer?

BenMcr

14-09-2022 11:28

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36134132)

So that would include where babies are born alive, but a doctor cuts their spinal cord with scissors, and the body placed in a freezer?

No, it would not. That's a very right-wing US talking point of 'after-birth abortion' and it's not helpful to what is already an emotive subject.

Hugh	14-09-2022 11:35

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36134132)

So that would include where babies are born alive, but a doctor cuts their spinal cord with scissors, and the body placed in a freezer?

For those who don’t understand the reference…

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dr...gosnell-trial/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Gosnell

What nomadking didn’t mention is the the Doctor was prosecuted for these actions, and found guilty…

Quote:

In May 2013, Gosnell was convicted of first-degree murder in the deaths of three of the infants and involuntary manslaughter in the death of Karnamaya Mongar, an adult patient at the clinic following an abortion procedure. Gosnell was also convicted of 21 felony counts of illegal late-term abortion, and 211 counts of violating Pennsylvania's 24-hour informed consent law.

nomadking

14-09-2022 12:13

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36134137)

Of just 3 murders.
Caught by accident, with prior evidence ignored for years by the authorities. So how many other similar cases are out there?
He wasn't the only one involved. Several others that were involved, and they considered that there was a Constitutional Right to do it. Why else did they think it ok?

Quote:

Pearl Mabel Gosnell, Kermit's wife, was charged with abortion at 24 or more weeks, conspiracy and participating in a corrupt organization. She pleaded guilty to these charges on December 13, 2011. Pearl Gosnell was sentenced to 7 to 23 months in prison.

Less than a week per killing.

Quote:

Practice staff routinely delivered living babies in the third trimester, subsequently killing them (or ensuring their death).[60] As part of this, fetuses and babies had their demise "ensured" post-operatively by severing of the spinal cord with scissors, known by staff as "snipping". Most of these were deemed infeasible to prosecute because files and other evidence were not held, although the report stipulates they numbered in the "hundreds".

Hugh	14-09-2022 12:15

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

But they were illegal acts, so I am not sure of your point…

1andrew1

14-09-2022 17:35

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36134141)

Harold Shipman murdered 250 of his own patients but no one's suggesting we close down GP's surgeries because of this.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Harold-Shipman

nomadking

14-09-2022 17:37

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36134169)

Harold Shipman murdered 250 of his own patients but no one's suggesting we close down GP's surgeries because of this.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Harold-Shipman

Were others involved? No, so not relevant.

1andrew1

14-09-2022 17:42

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36134170)

Were others involved? No, so not relevant.

Why is the number of murderers involved important?

nomadking

14-09-2022 17:49

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36134143)

But they were illegal acts, so I am not sure of your point…

That's just it, only 3 murder charges.

Quote:

and over 200 lesser counts including infanticide and racketeering

And the others who took part, did so at gunpoint, or did they agree with it? They ALSO felt they weren't doing anything wrong or illegal. Why is that?

Chris

14-09-2022 17:54

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36134172)

That's just it, only 3 murder charges.

And the others who took part, did so at gunpoint, or did they agree with it? They ALSO felt they weren't doing anything wrong or illegal. Why is that?

Not for the first time I find myself wishing you’d just make an actual point instead of trying to play Rumpole of the sudding Bailey.

nomadking

14-09-2022 17:56

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36134171)

Why is the number of murderers involved important?

It's about whether it was the secret actions of one person, compared to the actions of several people, who all considered it ok.
The secret actions of one person, do not reflect wider than that. Having several people who took part, or were prepared to ignore things, DO reflect on the wider attitudes.
Shipman knew he was doing wrong. Gosnell and his staff DIDN'T think they were doing anything wrong. Doctors who had worked, might have gone and set up their own clinics, and operated in the same way.

BenMcr

14-09-2022 18:00

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

But what are you trying to argue?

If someone does illegal things, that's still illegal no matter if they thought what they were doing was legal.

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